Is the APU from AMD a success?

[mabreatsh]

is it enough to be competitive to a high level with intel? Will ULV APUs be as good if not better than ULV Ivy bridge in the near future? AMD claim a 57% increase over Llano in the new generation of apus "trinity"

What do you guys think?

 

[Forde3654Eire]

In terms of CPU processing power, Intel stays a good distance ahead of AMD. In terms of integrated graphics power, AMD APU is superior to the Intel HD graphics.

 

[welshmousepk]

Agree with forde. I absolutely love AMD APUs, but for me Its all about gaming.
you can build a low power htpc with an a8 apu. Great gaming performance in something absolutely tiny. you can't get that on intel's side without going with a dedicated gpu, which adds a lot of power and size to a build.

same goes at the lower end. I briefly had a netbook with an e350, and it blows out anything intel offer in terms of playing older games.

But i love playing around with weaker hardware to try to run games. am looking forward to trinity to build a HTPC with.

 

[noob2222]

Ivy bridge HD 4000 graphics still can't compete with LLano, much less the next upgrade, Trinity. Trinity looks to be on par clock per clock IPC with Llano with a considerable higher frequency, wich is a good sign since the initial BD launch was at times slower than Phenom II. CPU wise, it will probably still trade blows with Llano due to the fact that a trinity core is 1/2 a module wich performs at 80% when both halves are active.

The graphics side should be quite a bit better, and Ivy has no chance.

Thats the absolute closest HD 4000 got to Llano, most of the time it was a complete blowout.

 

[justme1977]

Well, its a hard one. For some people the cpu part of the amd apu is to slow, while for other people the gpu part on the intel is to slow.

last month i build 2 pc's for friends of mine, for one friend i build a a8 3870k (he likes to over-clock a bit and likes to play simple games like fifa and cycling manager).
For the other friend i build a pentium g840 (he is using his pc for browsing the net, the only game he plays is soccer manager).

Both friends couldn't be happier, so I guess its just the question what do you need?

 

[mabreatsh]

Just interested in how amd is fairing these days.

 

[welshmousepk]

tbh, its the only portion of the market where AMD are really doing well.

Intel CPUs are far better in almost every price bracket for other dedicated builds. but in those small/low power areas, i feel AMD is leagues ahead.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Ivy bridge HD 4000 graphics still can't compete with LLano, much less the next upgrade, Trinity. Trinity looks to be on par clock per clock IPC with Llano with a considerable higher frequency, wich is a good sign since the initial BD launch was at times slower than Phenom II. CPU wise, it will probably still trade blows with Llano due to the fact that a trinity core is 1/2 a module wich performs at 80% when both halves are active.

The graphics side should be quite a bit better, and Ivy has no chance.

Thats the absolute closest HD 4000 got to Llano, most of the time it was a complete blowout.

http://www.guru3d.com/news/intel-core-i73770-preview/

From what we can tell, the CPU used for these tests is a “production quality Ivy Bridge” processor, but both the motherboard and graphics drivers used are still in a pre-production form.

What this means is that Intel could still improve the graphics performance of Ivy Bridge through a series of driver updates.

Despite the still early nature of these drivers however, the Intel HD 4000 GPU integrated in the Core i7-3770K processor proves itself to be capable of running some current games at 1680x1050 resolutions.

Furthermore, the HD 4000 even manages to significantly surpass entry-level graphics cards like AMD’s Radeon HD 5450 or Nvidia’s GeForce GT 520M, which in Metro 2033 is just 10% slower than the GeForce GT 440.

The Core i7-3770K is Intel’s highest performing desktop processor based on the Ivy Bridge architecture and it packs four processing cores with Hyper-Threading support clocked at 3.5GHz (up to 3.9GHz in Turbo Boost mode).

Much like the current Sandy Bridge-based Core i7 parts, the chip also sports 8MB of shared L3 cache, but its integrated GPU has been updated to the new HD 4000, which packs 30% more EUs than its predecessor.

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26360-ivy-bridge-graphics-comparable-to-llano

Since Anand already benchmarked Ivy Bridge desktop 3770K here, we got quite a nice glimpse of what to expect from Ivy Bridge graphics. Still, our sources are telling us that the final graphics scores will end up significantly faster, once the new launch driver gets ready.

You should expect Llano-class performance from Ivy Bridge we were told. Llano scales from HD 6370 integrated graphics all the way to the HD 6550 DirectX 11 core, and Ivy Bridge scores should come very close to this.

However, in the meantime AMD will launch Trinity, with next generation graphics that will end up with HD 7660D and HD 7580D branding in low end cores and our sources are telling us that Trinity A10, A8, A6 and A4 CPUs will beat Ivy Bridge in graphics benchmarks hands down.

While no serious gamer is going to be looking at any APU, I'd expect some improvement in HD4K graphics by the time it launches some 5 weeks from now.

 

[Forde3654Eire]

I'd say AMD is on the right track with the APU segment in the laptop market. An A6 laptop with a 6650 dedicated GPU has about the same gaming performance as a more expensive one with an i5 and GT540m / GT630m.

For a long time, only those with deep pockets and rich daddies could afford beastly gaming laptops... but now, for those of us who save money for the more important things in life, we can enjoy a good gaming experience on a laptop for a fraction of the price... and the A-series is just the icing on the cake... I'd say Trinity will be very promising for those of us who want to do a bit of gaming on the go.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Asus-K53TA-SX026V-Fusion-Notebook.62849.0.html

Just a taste of what to expect from Trinity versus Intel HD 3000
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4813/look-out-bulldozer-here-comes-trinity-amds-2012-demo-on-video-at-idf

 

[jaguarskx]

Overall, AMD's APUs are selling very well so from a financial point of view you can call it a "success". However, GloFo (Global Founderies) has a lot of problems fabricating the Llano APUs. As of Q3 2011, GloFo only had a 50% production yield which means half of what's been produced did not work at all and had to be trashed. Of the working Llano APUs, only 5% (2.5% of total production) were of high enough quality that they can be binned as an A8-3850 APU.

I don't know how well GloFo has been able to improve production yield since then, but as of the beginning of this year AMD is required by contract to play for the entire cost of fabrication process (whether the APU is good or bad) as opposed to last year where AMD only paid for the fabrication expense of the APUs which were in working order.

 

[megamanx00]

APUs are a winner for AMD. I think that with further improvements it AMD will take up more and more of the low power x86 market. Windows 8 tablets will likely benefit from AMDs APU with any kind of graphic intensive task. As for competing on a high level, no. It looks like the Piledriver architecture is still behind in IPC compared to the good ol Stars cores and thus way behind what Intel currently has in IPC and performance per Watt. Until AMD can get closer in those two regards it's going to be hard to do better than mid range.

 

[DEY123]

The average user would be far better off with an APU. By average I mean someone who does not buy games that should really use a GPU and someone who is not doing a lot of video editing or using science / high end business software.

When you are using basic IE/office having a super powerful chip makes no difference. Ideally you want multi core and some graphics power for as cheap as possible; which is what AMD offers. The real challenge is how do they get the average consumer to buy them vs intel.

I have an A6 in an HTPC and it is working great (no issues streaming HD content and watching OTA TV at the same time). I have a Phenom 2 in my gaming rig and would have gone with intel except it was far cheaper to upgrade from my old athlon and go with AMD since the chip would work in my exitsing MB.

 

[noob2222]

....

While no serious gamer is going to be looking at any APU, I'd expect some improvement in HD4K graphics by the time it launches some 5 weeks from now.

Sounds like the same spiel AMD's "unknowns source" gave on sample BD chips, I don't think some improvement is going to be another 30 to 50%, I think 10% may be pushing it. Aside from the fact that there will probably be only 2-3 chips with the HD 4k functional, with the rest binned at hd 3k.

Can Intel bring HD 4k to Llano speeds? Maybe the bottom binned Llano, but not likely to reach the 6550D as they already gained 20-40% over hd 3k.

 

[jaguarskx]

No the Intel HD 4000 will not be as fast as the Radeon HD 6550D, but it should be close to the Radeon HD 6530D.

Here's some benchmarks:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5626/ivy-bridge-preview-core-i7-3770k

Llano / Trinity would be the obvious preferred choice if anyone is looking for a desktop / laptop to play games without a discrete video card.

 

[jaguarskx]

Since technology is an endless game of "leapfrog", the integrated graphics core in Haswell (2013) will be another evolution for Intel's integrated graphics core. Interesting enough there will be 3 different graphics cores known as GT1, GT2 and GT3. The GT3 will only be available on certain mobile Haswell CPUs for ultrabooks.

The Intel HD 4000 has 16 shaders. The GT3 will supposedly have up to 32 shaders. How much of a performance improvement does this translates to remains to be seen since performance is not only based on the number of shaders in a GPU core.

It will be interesting to see how well AMD's Kaveri APU (Trinity's successor in 2013) will perform. The early speculation is that Kaveri APU graphics core will be equivalent to a desktop Radeon HD 7750 (at least on paper). If that is true, then that put's a lot of pressure on nVidia since that basically means it will compete against many of nVidia's lower end cards. It also means Kaveri can cannibalize some of AMD's low end card sales as well.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news/69-cpu-chipset/45310-amd-kaveri-graphics-performance-on-par-with-radeon-hd-7750.html

 

[Cazalan]

Llano / Trinity would be the obvious preferred choice if anyone is looking for a desktop / laptop to play games without a discrete video card.

The problem there is if Intel is that close to Llano (within 10-15%) the OEM's are more likely to go with the brand recognition of Intel.

Llano was a much easier design win when it was 100% faster.

Trinity needs to ship ASAP!

 

[jaguarskx]

Don't know when Trinity will be released. Summer perhaps?

The bigger issue is if GloFo has made any improvement to their fabrication process. If Trinity's yield is only going to be 50% and AMD paying for all Trinity APU that have been fabricated (whether they work or not), then that cut's into AMD's profit margin and they really need to end their relationship with GloFo and have TSMC manufacture their future CPUs and APUs.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Sounds like the same spiel AMD's "unknowns source" gave on sample BD chips, I don't think some improvement is going to be another 30 to 50%, I think 10% may be pushing it. Aside from the fact that there will probably be only 2-3 chips with the HD 4k functional, with the rest binned at hd 3k.

Well according to another S/A rumor, the reason Intel delayed IVB by 3 weeks was due to Apple demanding a huge number of them with the HD4K GPU. While originally there were only the top end IVBs slated to have HD4K, now Intel is having to satisfy the demand for that GPU on a much wider range of CPUs.

I've heard from good sources that Intel is selling every one they can make, so they decided that waiting a bit to ramp up production and avoid a paper launch was better than sticking to the original release date and customers having to wait and wait. Remember how frustrated the AMD fans got over the delay after delay of BD? Intel doesn't want to pull a Barcelona or Bulldozer type disaster launch..

Can Intel bring HD 4k to Llano speeds? Maybe the bottom binned Llano, but not likely to reach the 6550D as they already gained 20-40% over hd 3k.

Since you brought up BD as an example, then I suggest the same as I did prior to BD's launch - wait for the actual reviews. Intel said HD4K would be around 60% improvement over HD3K, IIRC..

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Don't know when Trinity will be released. Summer perhaps?

I've heard Q2 - Q4, so who knows?? Rumors are pointing to Q2, but then I take that with a large box of Morton's salt after BD was rumored to be Q4 of 2010, then Q1 - Q2 - Q3 and finally released Q4 of last year. Actually I take that back - originally Bulldozer was supposed to come out in 2009 I think, before AMD yanked it off their roadmap for a year or so in 2008..

The bigger issue is if GloFo has made any improvement to their fabrication process. If Trinity's yield is only going to be 50% and AMD paying for all Trinity APU that have been fabricated (whether they work or not), then that cut's into AMD's profit margin and they really need to end their relationship with GloFo and have TSMC manufacture their future CPUs and APUs.

Supposedly GF has doubled their yields on 32nm now, so that means despite GF stating "yields were fine" about a year ago, they necessarily were below 50% ..

My opinion is that IVB will be another Sandy Bridge - a huge success for Intel - and AMD's Trinity will have trouble finding shelf space at Walmart, Best Buy, and the other retailers unless AMD can kick it out the door in the next month or two. If they want to make a dent in the back-to-school market in August-September, they will have to start shipping in volume in June most likely and probably at lower prices to boot...

 

[esrever]

The APU is pretty nice. Low power single package is great for mobiles. You can buy a cheap A6 and enjoy decent gaming for $500 which you could never do before.

Its also a good htpc which the low end A4s work perfectly as for extremely cheap.

Overall I'd say its a success. the cheap brazo chips are selling a butt ton in china and india and such and the A series seems to be plenty for most people doing facebook and playing a few games.

personally Im not seeing the need for more cpu processing power of the high end intel cpus for most people. If and can establish that in marketing then they can start gaining more ground with the APU.

 

[diablo34life]

is it enough to be competitive to a high level with intel? Will ULV APUs be as good if not better than ULV Ivy bridge in the near future? AMD claim a 57% increase over Llano in the new generation of apus "trinity"

What do you guys think?

i would never buy an APU, the results are still really low for gaming. anyone with a good head on there shoulders would focus on a strong cpu and a strong gpu. no sense trying to get some video compatability in the cpu. if the fx series had abit of built in video that would be ok as long as it doesnt slow down the actual cpu. but the apus are pretty weak from amd. just buy a good cpu and good gpu when it comes to amd and dont bother playing the apu game. intel on the other hand has solid cpu power and some ok gpu built in. doesnt matter to me about intel because there cpu speed is pretty good. im kinda wishing i went the intel route now because i just heard about the release of the fx4130 and 6130 coming out in april. yes thats right now there will be YET another 2 fx cpus from amd. which i think is unnessasary with the 4170 out. once i heard about the 4130 and 6130 i just gave up on amd. those 2 new cpus arnt going to fix the bulldozer problems. they should have invested the time to release these 2 new cpus into something worth while. maybe like an fx4200 with a new stepping and an architecture fix, a revision, something.... god

 

[Anonymous_26]

I would call it a success. The a8's performs equal to a Phenom II at the same speed.

 

[nforce4max]

http://www.guru3d.com/news/intel-core-i73770-preview/

From what we can tell, the CPU used for these tests is a “production quality Ivy Bridge” processor, but both the motherboard and graphics drivers used are still in a pre-production form.

What this means is that Intel could still improve the graphics performance of Ivy Bridge through a series of driver updates.

Despite the still early nature of these drivers however, the Intel HD 4000 GPU integrated in the Core i7-3770K processor proves itself to be capable of running some current games at 1680x1050 resolutions.

Furthermore, the HD 4000 even manages to significantly surpass entry-level graphics cards like AMD’s Radeon HD 5450 or Nvidia’s GeForce GT 520M, which in Metro 2033 is just 10% slower than the GeForce GT 440.

The Core i7-3770K is Intel’s highest performing desktop processor based on the Ivy Bridge architecture and it packs four processing cores with Hyper-Threading support clocked at 3.5GHz (up to 3.9GHz in Turbo Boost mode).

Much like the current Sandy Bridge-based Core i7 parts, the chip also sports 8MB of shared L3 cache, but its integrated GPU has been updated to the new HD 4000, which packs 30% more EUs than its predecessor.

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26360-ivy-bridge-graphics-comparable-to-llano

Since Anand already benchmarked Ivy Bridge desktop 3770K here, we got quite a nice glimpse of what to expect from Ivy Bridge graphics. Still, our sources are telling us that the final graphics scores will end up significantly faster, once the new launch driver gets ready.

You should expect Llano-class performance from Ivy Bridge we were told. Llano scales from HD 6370 integrated graphics all the way to the HD 6550 DirectX 11 core, and Ivy Bridge scores should come very close to this.

However, in the meantime AMD will launch Trinity, with next generation graphics that will end up with HD 7660D and HD 7580D branding in low end cores and our sources are telling us that Trinity A10, A8, A6 and A4 CPUs will beat Ivy Bridge in graphics benchmarks hands down.

While no serious gamer is going to be looking at any APU, I'd expect some improvement in HD4K graphics by the time it launches some 5 weeks from now.

I have to disagree, sure AMD's APU may not be the best bench chips out there but their IGP is far ahead of any thing Intel/PowerVR have to offer plus Intel's often lackluster drivers are not fun at all. It is a upgrade over HD2000 and 3k but not against Llano. It closes the gap a little but not enough to really beat it let alone match. I got two of their APUs in my use right now and for gaming there really isn't any thing out there like them. Yes the cpu side of things is sluggish and the memory controller is even worse but Intel/PowerVR won't have any thing better till Haswell compared to existing amd IGPs.

 

[Anonymous_26]

Yea but you still can't really game with the integrated graphics it's just not at the same level as having a good discrete video card.

 

[nforce4max]

Well, its a hard one. For some people the cpu part of the amd apu is to slow, while for other people the gpu part on the intel is to slow.

last month i build 2 pc's for friends of mine, for one friend i build a a8 3870k (he likes to over-clock a bit and likes to play simple games like fifa and cycling manager).
For the other friend i build a pentium g840 (he is using his pc for browsing the net, the only game he plays is soccer manager).

Both friends couldn't be happier, so I guess its just the question what do you need?

The cpu side is slow but could be better if it were not for the slow memory controller starving the cpu and gpu of bandwidth. The rest can be blamed on GF and their SOI process. Yields have been poor over the past year and most of the Llano samples only made it out to be A4 and A6 models. Power consumption is high and clocks are held back. AMD often by default ship their APUs overvolted. On the mobile side people have been able to under volt and still manage 200-500mhz margin over stock. The desktop is abysmal with high power consumption and often maxing out around 3.4-3.6ghz.

The Pentium series like the i3 are just overpriced but still good on the memory and cpu side.