Tom's Hardware: Topic Global brightening
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Per the NYT, the amount of sunlight reaching the ground has been
increasing over the past 10 year or so reversing a dimming trend.
(Local dimness in Hong Kong/India remain).
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/06/ [...] right.html
May 6, 2005
Earth Has Become Brighter, but No One Is Sure Why
By KENNETH CHANG
Reversing a decades-long trend toward "global dimming," Earth's surface
has become brighter since 1990, scientists are reporting today.
The brightening means that more sunlight - and thus more heat - is
reaching the ground. That could partly explain the record-high global
temperatures reported in the late 1990's, and it could accelerate the
planet's warming trend.
"We see the dimming is no longer there," said Dr. Martin Wild, a
climatologist at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich and
the lead author of one of three papers analyzing sunlight that appear in
today's issue of the journal Science. "If anything, there is a brightening."
Some scientists have reported that from 1960 to 1990, the amount of
sunshine reaching the ground decreased at a rate of 2 percent to 3
percent per decade.
In some places, the brightening of the 1990's has more than offset the
dimming, Dr. Wild said. In other places, like Hong Kong, which lost more
than a third of its sunlight, the dimming has leveled off, but skies
remain darker than in the past. In a few places, like India, the dimming
trend continues, he said.
The new papers also call attention to a major gap in the understanding
of climate. Scientists do not exactly know what caused the dimming and
the brightening, or how they affect the rest of the climate system.
Earth reflects about 30 percent of the incoming sunlight back into
space. Slight changes in the reflectivity, possibly caused by changes in
cloud cover and air pollution, can have as much impact on the climate as
heat-trapping greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide.
Some scientists say that the dimming and the brightening might explain
why for many years temperatures on Earth lagged what was predicted by
many climate models and then shot upward more recently.
"I think what could have happened is the dimming between the 60's and
80's counteracted the greenhouse effect," Dr. Wild said. "When the
dimming faded, the effects of the greenhouse gases became more evident.
There is no masking by the dimming anymore."
But Dr. Rachel T. Pinker, a professor of meteorology at the University
of Maryland who led the team that wrote one of the other papers, said
the picture might not be so simple. More sunlight should increase
evaporation rates, leading to more clouds, and the additional cloud
cover could then increase Earth's reflectivity, limiting the warming effect.
"I think that's a complex issue," Dr. Pinker said. "There are many
feedbacks involved."
The findings of Dr. Wild and his colleagues are based on data through
2001 from a network of ground-based sensors that directly measure the
sunlight hitting the ground. But the sensors are not evenly distributed,
with the greatest number in Europe, few in Africa and South America, and
none covering the 70 percent of Earth's surface that is water.
Dr. Pinker's team analyzed satellite data from 1983 to 2001 that covered
the globe. Its findings about brightening, which basically agree with
Dr. Wild's, rely on computer models to estimate how much sunlight
reaches the surface.
Finally, a team led by Dr. Bruce A. Wielicki of NASA's Langley Research
Center in Virginia reports that measurements from the agency's Aqua
satellite show a slight decrease in the amount of light reflected off
Earth since 2000, which corresponds to a brightening on the surface.
The NASA findings conflict with measurements, reported last year,
suggesting that Earth had resumed dimming since 2000. Those measurements
looked at the illumination of the dark side of the Moon by light
reflected off Earth.
Dr. Philip R. Goode, a professor of physics at the New Jersey Institute
of Technology who was one of the researchers behind last year's report,
said it was not clear why the findings differed so markedly. "We've been
working with them to understand the origins of the differences," Dr.
Goode said of the Wielicki group.
Dr. Wielicki said his data supported a report last month by a team led
by Dr. James E. Hansen of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New
York. In a paper published on Science's Web site, Dr. Hansen and his
colleagues said much of the excess heat generated by global warming has
been stored in the oceans. Even if no more greenhouse gases are added to
the atmosphere, they said, Earth will continue to warm by 1 degree
Fahrenheit over the coming decades, as the heat in the oceans is
released into the air.
Dr. Wielicki said the amount of energy coming from the Sun matched the
gain in heat in the oceans reported by Dr. Hansen. "It is consistent
with the ocean heat storage that the oceanographers are seeing," Dr.
Wielicki said, "and it is consistent with the climate models'
predictions of what the heat storage should be."
Dr. Robert J. Charlson, a professor of atmospheric sciences at the
University of Washington and an author of a commentary that accompanied
the three papers, said, "This set of papers, taken together, calls
attention for more emphasis on research in these topics."
But he added, "Unfortunately, impediments have come up." Four years'
worth of data from the Earth Radiation Budget Satellite is unanalyzed,
he said, because there is no money for scientists to work with it.
Another satellite, the Deep Space Climate Observatory, which was
scheduled to be launched on a space shuttle, awaits in storage. Proposed
budget cuts in earth science research at NASA could limit the analysis
of data from other satellites, Dr. Charlson said.
--
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From: "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca>
|
| Per the NYT, the amount of sunlight reaching the ground has been
| increasing over the past 10 year or so reversing a dimming trend.
| (Local dimness in Hong Kong/India remain).
|
| http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/06/ [...] right.html
|
| May 6, 2005
| Earth Has Become Brighter, but No One Is Sure Why
| By KENNETH CHANG
|
| Reversing a decades-long trend toward "global dimming," Earth's surface
| has become brighter since 1990, scientists are reporting today.
|
| The brightening means that more sunlight - and thus more heat - is
| reaching the ground. That could partly explain the record-high global
| temperatures reported in the late 1990's, and it could accelerate the
| planet's warming trend.
|
| "We see the dimming is no longer there," said Dr. Martin Wild, a
| climatologist at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich and
| the lead author of one of three papers analyzing sunlight that appear in
| today's issue of the journal Science. "If anything, there is a brightening."
|
| Some scientists have reported that from 1960 to 1990, the amount of
| sunshine reaching the ground decreased at a rate of 2 percent to 3
| percent per decade.
|
| In some places, the brightening of the 1990's has more than offset the
| dimming, Dr. Wild said. In other places, like Hong Kong, which lost more
| than a third of its sunlight, the dimming has leveled off, but skies
| remain darker than in the past. In a few places, like India, the dimming
| trend continues, he said.
|
| The new papers also call attention to a major gap in the understanding
| of climate. Scientists do not exactly know what caused the dimming and
| the brightening, or how they affect the rest of the climate system.
|
| Earth reflects about 30 percent of the incoming sunlight back into
| space. Slight changes in the reflectivity, possibly caused by changes in
| cloud cover and air pollution, can have as much impact on the climate as
| heat-trapping greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide.
|
| Some scientists say that the dimming and the brightening might explain
| why for many years temperatures on Earth lagged what was predicted by
| many climate models and then shot upward more recently.
|
| "I think what could have happened is the dimming between the 60's and
| 80's counteracted the greenhouse effect," Dr. Wild said. "When the
| dimming faded, the effects of the greenhouse gases became more evident.
| There is no masking by the dimming anymore."
|
| But Dr. Rachel T. Pinker, a professor of meteorology at the University
| of Maryland who led the team that wrote one of the other papers, said
| the picture might not be so simple. More sunlight should increase
| evaporation rates, leading to more clouds, and the additional cloud
| cover could then increase Earth's reflectivity, limiting the warming effect.
|
| "I think that's a complex issue," Dr. Pinker said. "There are many
| feedbacks involved."
|
| The findings of Dr. Wild and his colleagues are based on data through
| 2001 from a network of ground-based sensors that directly measure the
| sunlight hitting the ground. But the sensors are not evenly distributed,
| with the greatest number in Europe, few in Africa and South America, and
| none covering the 70 percent of Earth's surface that is water.
|
| Dr. Pinker's team analyzed satellite data from 1983 to 2001 that covered
| the globe. Its findings about brightening, which basically agree with
| Dr. Wild's, rely on computer models to estimate how much sunlight
| reaches the surface.
|
| Finally, a team led by Dr. Bruce A. Wielicki of NASA's Langley Research
| Center in Virginia reports that measurements from the agency's Aqua
| satellite show a slight decrease in the amount of light reflected off
| Earth since 2000, which corresponds to a brightening on the surface.
|
| The NASA findings conflict with measurements, reported last year,
| suggesting that Earth had resumed dimming since 2000. Those measurements
| looked at the illumination of the dark side of the Moon by light
| reflected off Earth.
|
| Dr. Philip R. Goode, a professor of physics at the New Jersey Institute
| of Technology who was one of the researchers behind last year's report,
| said it was not clear why the findings differed so markedly. "We've been
| working with them to understand the origins of the differences," Dr.
| Goode said of the Wielicki group.
|
| Dr. Wielicki said his data supported a report last month by a team led
| by Dr. James E. Hansen of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New
| York. In a paper published on Science's Web site, Dr. Hansen and his
| colleagues said much of the excess heat generated by global warming has
| been stored in the oceans. Even if no more greenhouse gases are added to
| the atmosphere, they said, Earth will continue to warm by 1 degree
| Fahrenheit over the coming decades, as the heat in the oceans is
| released into the air.
|
| Dr. Wielicki said the amount of energy coming from the Sun matched the
| gain in heat in the oceans reported by Dr. Hansen. "It is consistent
| with the ocean heat storage that the oceanographers are seeing," Dr.
| Wielicki said, "and it is consistent with the climate models'
| predictions of what the heat storage should be."
|
| Dr. Robert J. Charlson, a professor of atmospheric sciences at the
| University of Washington and an author of a commentary that accompanied
| the three papers, said, "This set of papers, taken together, calls
| attention for more emphasis on research in these topics."
|
| But he added, "Unfortunately, impediments have come up." Four years'
| worth of data from the Earth Radiation Budget Satellite is unanalyzed,
| he said, because there is no money for scientists to work with it.
|
| Another satellite, the Deep Space Climate Observatory, which was
| scheduled to be launched on a space shuttle, awaits in storage. Proposed
| budget cuts in earth science research at NASA could limit the analysis
| of data from other satellites, Dr. Charlson said.
|
| --
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| -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
| -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
| -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
It's prabably due to the erruption of Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines mid '91. That was a
major erruption, It dropped the avg. Earth temperature and blocked a small percentage of
light from reaching the earth due to the large quantity of dust thrown into the upper
atmosphere.
--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
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"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:QtOee.124$_g1.26@trnddc04...
[SNIP]
>
> It's prabably due to the erruption of Mount Pinatubo in the
> Philippines mid '91. That was a major erruption, It dropped the avg. >
Earth temperature and blocked a small percentage of light from
> reaching the earth due to the large quantity of dust thrown into the
> upper atmosphere.
>
There was an almost immediate, and statistically significant, rise in
average light levels all over North America in the three days after 9/11 -
so I think the dimming is due to air pollution. Air travel is the single
most air-polluting thing man does, and the grounding of flights seems to
have had an almost instant impact. Bad news either way.
Peter
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"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:wgMee.38832$pe1.535883@wagner.videotron.net...
[SNIP]
>
> Dr. Robert J. Charlson, a professor of atmospheric sciences at the
> University of Washington and an author of a commentary that
> accompanied the three papers, said, "This set of papers, taken
> together, calls attention for more emphasis on research in these
> topics."
>
> But he added, "Unfortunately, impediments have come up." Four
> years' worth of data from the Earth Radiation Budget Satellite is
> unanalyzed, he said, because there is no money for scientists to work
> with it.
>
> Another satellite, the Deep Space Climate Observatory, which was
> scheduled to be launched on a space shuttle, awaits in storage.
> Proposed budget cuts in earth science research at NASA could limit
> the analysis of data from other satellites, Dr. Charlson said.
>
Funny how the most spendthift administration the US has ever had wants to
make cuts in those programmes that might reveal the facts that are
unpapteable to their pro-oil and never-mind-about-climate-change agenda...
;-)
Peter
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David H. Lipman wrote:
>
> It's prabably due to the erruption of Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines mid '91. That was a
> major erruption, It dropped the avg. Earth temperature and blocked a small percentage of
> light from reaching the earth due to the large quantity of dust thrown into the upper
> atmosphere.
The article states that they're trying to figure out the "why".
Cheers,
Alan
PS: A little snipping would have gone a long way there David.
--
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Bandicoot wrote:
> There was an almost immediate, and statistically significant, rise in
> average light levels all over North America in the three days after 9/11 -
> so I think the dimming is due to air pollution. Air travel is the single
> most air-polluting thing man does, and the grounding of flights seems to
> have had an almost instant impact. Bad news either way.
There was a similar drop in measured air pollution following the
blackout of the northeast a couple years ago. A lot of coal is used in
places like Ohio and surrounds to move electrons.
Cheers,
Alan
--
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Bandicoot wrote:
> Funny how the most spendthift administration the US has ever had wants to
> make cuts in those programmes that might reveal the facts that are
> unpapteable to their pro-oil and never-mind-about-climate-change agenda...
Never get between a failed oilman and reality.
--
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From: "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca>
|
| The article states that they're trying to figure out the "why".
|
| Cheers,
| Alan
|
| PS: A little snipping would have gone a long way there David.
|
| --
| -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
| -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
| -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
| -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Considering it was a 1st level quote I didn't think snipping was warranted.
--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
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From: "Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com>
| There was an almost immediate, and statistically significant, rise in
| average light levels all over North America in the three days after 9/11 -
| so I think the dimming is due to air pollution. Air travel is the single
| most air-polluting thing man does, and the grounding of flights seems to
| have had an almost instant impact. Bad news either way.
|
| Peter
|
Please show me that information.
--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
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Bandicoot wrote:
> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:wgMee.38832$pe1.535883@wagner.videotron.net...
> [SNIP]
>
>>Dr. Robert J. Charlson, a professor of atmospheric sciences at the
>>University of Washington and an author of a commentary that
>>accompanied the three papers, said, "This set of papers, taken
>>together, calls attention for more emphasis on research in these
>>topics."
>>
>>But he added, "Unfortunately, impediments have come up." Four
>>years' worth of data from the Earth Radiation Budget Satellite is
>>unanalyzed, he said, because there is no money for scientists to work
>>with it.
>>
>>Another satellite, the Deep Space Climate Observatory, which was
>>scheduled to be launched on a space shuttle, awaits in storage.
>>Proposed budget cuts in earth science research at NASA could limit
>>the analysis of data from other satellites, Dr. Charlson said.
>>
>
>
> Funny how the most spendthift administration the US has ever had wants to
> make cuts in those programmes that might reveal the facts that are
> unpapteable to their pro-oil and never-mind-about-climate-change agenda...
>
> ;-)
>
>
> Peter
>
>
A redneck is not a redneck without a rifle and a V8 truck...
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David H. Lipman wrote:
>
> Considering it was a 1st level quote I didn't think snipping was warranted.
Snipping is always warranted.
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From: "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca>
| David H. Lipman wrote:
|
>> Considering it was a 1st level quote I didn't think snipping was warranted.
|
| Snipping is always warranted.
| --
| -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
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| -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
That's a matter of opinion.
--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm
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"Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message
news:1115404760.30777.0@lotis.uk.clara.net...
> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:wgMee.38832$pe1.535883@wagner.videotron.net...
> [SNIP]
>>
>> Dr. Robert J. Charlson, a professor of atmospheric sciences at the
>> University of Washington and an author of a commentary that
>> accompanied the three papers, said, "This set of papers, taken
>> together, calls attention for more emphasis on research in these
>> topics."
>>
>> But he added, "Unfortunately, impediments have come up." Four
>> years' worth of data from the Earth Radiation Budget Satellite is
>> unanalyzed, he said, because there is no money for scientists to work
>> with it.
>>
>> Another satellite, the Deep Space Climate Observatory, which was
>> scheduled to be launched on a space shuttle, awaits in storage.
>> Proposed budget cuts in earth science research at NASA could limit
>> the analysis of data from other satellites, Dr. Charlson said.
>>
>
> Funny how the most spendthift administration the US has ever had wants to
> make cuts in those programmes that might reveal the facts that are
> unpapteable to their pro-oil and never-mind-about-climate-change agenda...
>
> ;-)
>
>
> Peter
>
>
Of course....What do you expect? And the Democrats suppress statistics that
show its give away programs don't have any permanent effect on the overall
poverty level. Each administration turns its back on, and ignores
information that is contradictory to its avowed political agenda.
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In article <d5gkvn$56m$1@inews.gazeta.pl>,
Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> Snipping is always warranted.
In article <6MQee.1521$hh6.278@trnddc01>,
"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote:
> That's a matter of opinion.
No, that's a matter of FACT - and common, on-line courtesy.
Those that REFUSE to edit (snip, trim, whatever) their quotes are LAZY - pure
and simple.
JR
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On Fri, 6 May 2005 14:06:41 -0700, William Graham wrote:
> Each administration turns its back on, and ignores
> information that is contradictory to its avowed political agenda.
They hire the experts that give them the answers they want to
hear. The "experts" that saw no serious side effects from global
warming, increasing the ozone hold are now joined by those
guaranteed to see no consequencess from brightness changes, wheter
up or down. Might as well call these experts what they portray
themselves as - dim wits.
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"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:0sPee.137$_g1.126@trnddc04...
> From: "Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com>
>
>
> | There was an almost immediate, and statistically significant, rise in
> | average light levels all over North America in the three days after
> | 9/11 - so I think the dimming is due to air pollution. Air travel is
the
> | single | most air-polluting thing man does, and the grounding of
> | flights seems to | have had an almost instant impact. Bad news
> | either way.
> |
>
> Please show me that information.
>
It was academic rersearch by a climatologist quoted on a BBC documentary
recently, along with an interview with him and otherw working in the field.
Unfortunately that means that I don't remember the name, nor do I have a
written reference to cite. I imagine an online search would turn it up.
Peter
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Alan Browne wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/06/ [...] right.html
>
> Some scientists have reported that from 1960 to 1990, the amount of
> sunshine reaching the ground decreased at a rate of 2 percent to 3
> percent per decade.
>
> In some places, the brightening of the 1990's has more than offset the
> dimming, Dr. Wild said. In other places, like Hong Kong, which lost more
> than a third of its sunlight, the dimming has leveled off, but skies
> remain darker than in the past. In a few places, like India, the dimming
> trend continues, he said.
So how many stops does this translate into in terms of improved camera
performance?
: - )
--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
san francisco native plants
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>
>
> So how many stops does this translate into in terms of improved camera
> performance?
>
> : - )
<LOL> I was thinking that all the way through this thread.
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In article <-a-dneYTRbNUkuHfRVn-iA@comcast.com>,
"Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
> > So how many stops does this translate into in terms of improved camera
> > performance?
> >
> > : - )
> <LOL> I was thinking that all the way through this thread.
OK. Sorry for the OT rant (snipping, etc).
Perhaps this <ahem> "global brightening" with cause my 20D+580EX to PROPERLY
expose the "frame".
HA!
JR
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I know you folks spell words a little differently from us, but what is
unpapteable?
"Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message
news:1115404760.30777.0@lotis.uk.clara.net...
> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:wgMee.38832$pe1.535883@wagner.videotron.net...
> [SNIP]
>>
>> Dr. Robert J. Charlson, a professor of atmospheric sciences at the
>> University of Washington and an author of a commentary that
>> accompanied the three papers, said, "This set of papers, taken
>> together, calls attention for more emphasis on research in these
>> topics."
>>
>> But he added, "Unfortunately, impediments have come up." Four
>> years' worth of data from the Earth Radiation Budget Satellite is
>> unanalyzed, he said, because there is no money for scientists to work
>> with it.
>>
>> Another satellite, the Deep Space Climate Observatory, which was
>> scheduled to be launched on a space shuttle, awaits in storage.
>> Proposed budget cuts in earth science research at NASA could limit
>> the analysis of data from other satellites, Dr. Charlson said.
>>
>
> Funny how the most spendthift administration the US has ever had wants to
> make cuts in those programmes that might reveal the facts that are
> unpapteable to their pro-oil and never-mind-about-climate-change agenda...
>
> ;-)
>
>
> Peter
>
>
Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)
On Fri, 6 May 2005 18:03:58 -0700, MrB wrote:
> I know you folks spell words a little differently from us, but what is
> unpapteable?
Probably "unpalatable".
-- "The young cubs had to be transferred to another female, because
their own mother was unpapteable." --
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On Fri, 06 May 2005 14:47:23 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
> David H. Lipman wrote:
>
>>
>> It's prabably due to the erruption of Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines mid '91. That was a
>> major erruption, It dropped the avg. Earth temperature and blocked a small percentage of
>> light from reaching the earth due to the large quantity of dust thrown into the upper
>> atmosphere.
>
> The article states that they're trying to figure out the "why".
>
> Cheers,
> Alan
>
> PS: A little snipping would have gone a long way there David.
Netcop Browne strikes again!
--
"My beef about digital is that you see certain images out
there, and things are so digital and retouched that you lose
the person in the process - lose the rawness and the
touchability because it is just too perfect." ~ Tony Duran
Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)
On Fri, 06 May 2005 17:40:11 -0400, ASAAR <caught@22.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 6 May 2005 14:06:41 -0700, William Graham wrote:
>
>> Each administration turns its back on, and ignores
>> information that is contradictory to its avowed political agenda.
>
> They hire the experts that give them the answers they want to
>hear. The "experts" that saw no serious side effects from global
>warming, increasing the ozone hold are now joined by those
>guaranteed to see no consequencess from brightness changes, wheter
>up or down. Might as well call these experts what they portray
>themselves as - dim wits.
The successful consultant is the one who can quickly divine
what the employer wants to hear and quickly marshal the evidence to
support that position.
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Bandicoot wrote:
> "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
> news:QtOee.124$_g1.26@trnddc04...
> [SNIP]
>
>>It's prabably due to the erruption of Mount Pinatubo in the
>>Philippines mid '91. That was a major erruption, It dropped the avg. >
>
> Earth temperature and blocked a small percentage of light from
>
>>reaching the earth due to the large quantity of dust thrown into the
>>upper atmosphere.
>>
>
>
> There was an almost immediate, and statistically significant, rise in
> average light levels all over North America in the three days after 9/11 -
> so I think the dimming is due to air pollution. Air travel is the single
> most air-polluting thing man does, and the grounding of flights seems to
> have had an almost instant impact. Bad news either way.
>
>
> Peter
>
>
Which pollutants are you talking about? There are a number of them that
aircraft are not a significant source of. Others are indeed a problem,
but I'd like to see a reference to it being the MOST air polluting in
general.
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David H. Lipman wrote:
> From: "Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com>
>
>
> | There was an almost immediate, and statistically significant, rise in
> | average light levels all over North America in the three days after 9/11 -
> | so I think the dimming is due to air pollution. Air travel is the single
> | most air-polluting thing man does, and the grounding of flights seems to
> | have had an almost instant impact. Bad news either way.
> |
> | Peter
> |
>
> Please show me that information.
>
I suspect if the aircraft did have this effect, it was due to water
vapor, which condenses into contrails. Water vapor to me is not a
serious atmospheric pollutant. Not like carbon particulates, nitrous
oxides, CO, sulphur compounds and the like.
Contrails do reduce sunlight a bit, just like cirrus clouds. In fact,
vapor trail clouds ARE basically manmade cirrus. Gee, maybe this is a
way to offset global warming :-)
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Paul Furman wrote:
> So how many stops does this translate into in terms of improved camera
> performance?
Prices of lenses will be raised as a consequence.
--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
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Don Stauffer wrote:
> Which pollutants are you talking about? There are a number of them that
> aircraft are not a significant source of. Others are indeed a problem,
> but I'd like to see a reference to it being the MOST air polluting in
> general.
I agree with Don. I have a hard time believing that aviation uses as
much fuel as ground vehicles. Emissions will be closely proportional to
usage.
Anyone got numbers?
Cheers,
Alan
--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
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On Fri, 6 May 2005 14:06:41 -0700, in rec.photo.digital , "William
Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> in <X6ednQFd36rBQebfRVn-1w@comcast.com>
wrote:
>
>"Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message
>news:1115404760.30777.0@lotis.uk.clara.net...
[snip]
>> Funny how the most spendthift administration the US has ever had wants to
>> make cuts in those programmes that might reveal the facts that are
>> unpapteable to their pro-oil and never-mind-about-climate-change agenda...
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>Of course....What do you expect? And the Democrats suppress statistics that
>show its give away programs don't have any permanent effect on the overall
>poverty level. Each administration turns its back on, and ignores
>information that is contradictory to its avowed political agenda.
Do you have any evidence of a Democratic administration treating the
facts the way that this administration has? Let's forget what they did
on Iraq, have you seen how they are treating the science research?
--
Matt Silberstein
All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
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On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:43:27 -0400, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>The new papers also call attention to a major gap in the understanding
>of climate. Scientists do not exactly know what caused the dimming and
>the brightening, or how they affect the rest of the climate system.
More grist for the global warming wealth redistribution scam to feed
on.
-Rich
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"MrB" <brooksro@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mLadnTIglLRojuHfRVn-jw@adelphia.com...
> I know you folks spell words a little differently from us, but what is
> unpapteable?
>
It's how my fingers stumble over 'unpalatable' when it's late and time I was
going to bed...
Peter
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"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:iahq71hi4sru10pcbe32qs73cuak3i69j0@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:43:27 -0400, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
> >
> >The new papers also call attention to a major gap in the
> >understanding of climate. Scientists do not exactly know what
> >caused the dimming and the brightening, or how they affect the rest
> >of the climate system.
>
> More grist for the global warming wealth redistribution scam to feed
> on.
> -Rich
I see the brightening hasn't reached you yet.
Peter
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"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news
5j22q$180$2@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Don Stauffer wrote:
>
>> Which pollutants are you talking about? There are a number of them that
>> aircraft are not a significant source of. Others are indeed a problem,
>> but I'd like to see a reference to it being the MOST air polluting in
>> general.
>
> I agree with Don. I have a hard time believing that aviation uses as much
> fuel as ground vehicles. Emissions will be closely proportional to usage.
>
> Anyone got numbers?
>
> Cheers,
> Alan
My brother-in-law, who was an engineer, took me to the parking lot just East
of Oakland airport in the SF Bay area one day, just to show me the air
pollution there....It was terrible. but then, I drove from LA to Riverside
one day back in the 60's, and my eyes burned with the pollution all the way
across that valley. (approximately 50 miles) I think that the pollution from
automobiles is worse, but it is more easily controllable. The airplanes get
a free ticket. That is, there are no smog controls on aircraft engines, so
they are "catching up" as it were.......
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"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:vqhq71thkk45kl2l28t8nrpsp6986j1c54@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 6 May 2005 14:06:41 -0700, in rec.photo.digital , "William
> Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> in <X6ednQFd36rBQebfRVn-1w@comcast.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message
>>news:1115404760.30777.0@lotis.uk.clara.net...
> [snip]
>
>>> Funny how the most spendthift administration the US has ever had wants
>>> to
>>> make cuts in those programmes that might reveal the facts that are
>>> unpapteable to their pro-oil and never-mind-about-climate-change
>>> agenda...
>>>
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>Of course....What do you expect? And the Democrats suppress statistics
>>that
>>show its give away programs don't have any permanent effect on the overall
>>poverty level. Each administration turns its back on, and ignores
>>information that is contradictory to its avowed political agenda.
>
> Do you have any evidence of a Democratic administration treating the
> facts the way that this administration has? Let's forget what they did
> on Iraq, have you seen how they are treating the science research?
Yes, but this isn't the forum for it, so I am not going to extend the
discussion any further.
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On Sat, 7 May 2005 23:58:56 +0100, "Bandicoot"
<"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote:
>"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>news:iahq71hi4sru10pcbe32qs73cuak3i69j0@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:43:27 -0400, Alan Browne
>> <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >The new papers also call attention to a major gap in the
>> >understanding of climate. Scientists do not exactly know what
>> >caused the dimming and the brightening, or how they affect the rest
>> >of the climate system.
>>
>> More grist for the global warming wealth redistribution scam to feed
>> on.
>> -Rich
>
>I see the brightening hasn't reached you yet.
>
>
>Peter
>
Wake me when the 2.3 billion Indian and Chinese have to start
adhering to the same pollution laws the West has to.
-Rich
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"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:iahq71hi4sru10pcbe32qs73cuak3i69j0@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:43:27 -0400, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>>The new papers also call attention to a major gap in the understanding
>>of climate. Scientists do not exactly know what caused the dimming and
>>the brightening, or how they affect the rest of the climate system.
>
> More grist for the global warming wealth redistribution scam to feed
> on.
> -Rich
I doubt if anything comes close to the explosion of Krakatau in 1883 in
general air pollution sources, but we didn't have much measuring equipment
deployed back in those days, so it is hard to prove......
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"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:45oq71dac8e1kmr2nofelp5j5cvv5gjpre@4ax.com...
[SNIP]
>
> Wake me when the 2.3 billion Indian and Chinese have to start
> adhering to the same pollution laws the West has to.
> -Rich
Why bother? You'll be dead, your home under water, and none of your staple
food crops growable anywhere near where you used to live by then. Oh, and
the Chinese, who won't be able to grow rice either, will all have moved to
the places you would want to live, if you could.
Ho hum... ;-)
Peter
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On Sat, 7 May 2005 17:56:02 -0700, in rec.photo.digital , "William
Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> in <Me2dnYmameMG_uDfRVn-vg@comcast.com>
wrote:
>
>"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
>message news:vqhq71thkk45kl2l28t8nrpsp6986j1c54@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 6 May 2005 14:06:41 -0700, in rec.photo.digital , "William
>> Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> in <X6ednQFd36rBQebfRVn-1w@comcast.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1115404760.30777.0@lotis.uk.clara.net...
>> [snip]
>>
>>>> Funny how the most spendthift administration the US has ever had wants
>>>> to
>>>> make cuts in those programmes that might reveal the facts that are
>>>> unpapteable to their pro-oil and never-mind-about-climate-change
>>>> agenda...
>>>>
>>>> ;-)
>>>>
>>>Of course....What do you expect? And the Democrats suppress statistics
>>>that
>>>show its give away programs don't have any permanent effect on the overall
>>>poverty level. Each administration turns its back on, and ignores
>>>information that is contradictory to its avowed political agenda.
>>
>> Do you have any evidence of a Democratic administration treating the
>> facts the way that this administration has? Let's forget what they did
>> on Iraq, have you seen how they are treating the science research?
>
>Yes, but this isn't the forum for it, so I am not going to extend the
>discussion any further.
>
Yeah, sure. You are willing to discuss off topic issues, but not back
up claims.
--
Matt Silberstein
All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
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On Sat, 7 May 2005 17:59:50 -0700, in rec.photo.digital , "William
Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> in <FLWdnWdcIfvj-eDfRVn-ig@comcast.com>
wrote:
>
>"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>news:iahq71hi4sru10pcbe32qs73cuak3i69j0@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:43:27 -0400, Alan Browne
>> <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>The new papers also call attention to a major gap in the understanding
>>>of climate. Scientists do not exactly know what caused the dimming and
>>>the brightening, or how they affect the rest of the climate system.
>>
>> More grist for the global warming wealth redistribution scam to feed
>> on.
>> -Rich
>
>I doubt if anything comes close to the explosion of Krakatau in 1883 in
>general air pollution sources, but we didn't have much measuring equipment
>deployed back in those days, so it is hard to prove......
>
We have plenty of evidence of the affect that (and other eruptions)
have had on the weather. We have, for example, ice that records such
things very nicely. That fact is that the warming of the last few
decades is the fastest we have a record for. In a short time the North
Pole will be ice free in summer, there is already open water quite far
north. That is just a sign, though. It is the Antarctic ice that is a
danger. When the ice melts back far enough to read the land there will
be a catastrophic rise in sea level. As in several feet in a very
short period of time. Global warming is not a myth, it is not a
liberal plot, it is a real documented problem. Hiding your eyes or
asking for "fairness" does not make it go away.
--
Matt Silberstein
All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
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"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
message news:2j1r71pasuhcfqcirnuojit6h885vnmeiq@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 7 May 2005 17:56:02 -0700, in rec.photo.digital , "William
> Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> in <Me2dnYmameMG_uDfRVn-vg@comcast.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
>>message news:vqhq71thkk45kl2l28t8nrpsp6986j1c54@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 6 May 2005 14:06:41 -0700, in rec.photo.digital , "William
>>> Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> in <X6ednQFd36rBQebfRVn-1w@comcast.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:1115404760.30777.0@lotis.uk.clara.net...
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>> Funny how the most spendthift administration the US has ever had wants
>>>>> to
>>>>> make cuts in those programmes that might reveal the facts that are
>>>>> unpapteable to their pro-oil and never-mind-about-climate-change
>>>>> agenda...
>>>>>
>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>Of course....What do you expect? And the Democrats suppress statistics
>>>>that
>>>>show its give away programs don't have any permanent effect on the
>>>>overall
>>>>poverty level. Each administration turns its back on, and ignores
>>>>information that is contradictory to its avowed political agenda.
>>>
>>> Do you have any evidence of a Democratic administration treating the
>>> facts the way that this administration has? Let's forget what they did
>>> on Iraq, have you seen how they are treating the science research?
>>
>>Yes, but this isn't the forum for it, so I am not going to extend the
>>discussion any further.
>>
> Yeah, sure. You are willing to discuss off topic issues, but not back
> up claims.
What claims? - I made no claims.....If you want to discuss politics, get
Alan's permission first......
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Just open the Earth in Photoshop and adjust the contrast and brightness.
J. Cod
Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)
Then again, maybe global warming can help forstall the next ice age or
minimize it?
At least we KNOW ice ages happen, unlike
the voodoo science of global warming predictions.
Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)
I live in the North East. I think we could do
with year-round growing seasons, something like what happened to Europe
around 700ad.
Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)
William Graham wrote:
>
> "RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
> news:iahq71hi4sru10pcbe32qs73cuak3i69j0@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:43:27 -0400, Alan Browne
> > <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>The new papers also call attention to a major gap in the understanding
> >>of climate. Scientists do not exactly know what caused the dimming and
> >>the brightening, or how they affect the rest of the climate system.
> >
> > More grist for the global warming wealth redistribution scam to feed
> > on.
> > -Rich
>
> I doubt if anything comes close to the explosion of Krakatau in 1883 in
> general air pollution sources, but we didn't have much measuring equipment
> deployed back in those days, so it is hard to prove......
Krakatoa was big, but nowhere near the biggest in relatively recent
history. The Taupo Volcanic centre in the middle of the north island of
New Zealand was the site of the largest eruption in the last 27,000
years. This area has erupted about 28 times, the largest being 26,700
years ago, when 800 cubic kilometres of rock and pumice was ejected,
covering most of the island, and out to sea. In 181AD, less than 2,000
years ago, it erupted again, this time spewing 50 cubic kilometres of
debris all over the north island. The eruptions have left a huge
caldera which filled with water, and is now known as lake Taupo. It is
projected to go again some time, could be tomorrow, or maybe not for
many years - but it will go again.
See: http://www.minerals.co.nz/jago/background.html
Colin
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Colin D wrote:
sinp
> Krakatoa was big, but nowhere near the biggest in relatively recent
> history. The Taupo Volcanic centre in the middle of the north island of
> New Zealand was the site of the largest eruption in the last 27,000
> years. This area has erupted about 28 times, the largest being 26,700
> years ago, when 800 cubic kilometres of rock and pumice was ejected,
> covering most of the island, and out to sea. In 181AD, less than 2,000
> years ago, it erupted again, this time spewing 50 cubic kilometres of
> debris all over the north island. The eruptions have left a huge
> caldera which filled with water, and is now known as lake Taupo. It is
> projected to go again some time, could be tomorrow, or maybe not for
> many years - but it will go again.
>
> See: http://www.minerals.co.nz/jago/background.html
>
> Colin
Impressive indeed. I was aware of that one. But Krakatoa is still the
biggest, most atmospheric disrupting eruption for which relatively
accurate observations are available. Supposedly, it could go again too,
but I guess Taupo is due first.....
Regards,
DAve
--The OM2 lives!
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Matt Silberstein wrote:
> On Sat, 7 May 2005 17:59:50 -0700, in rec.photo.digital , "William
> Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> in <FLWdnWdcIfvj-eDfRVn-ig@comcast.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>>news:iahq71hi4sru10pcbe32qs73cuak3i69j0@4ax.com...
>>
>>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:43:27 -0400, Alan Browne
>>><alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The new papers also call attention to a major gap in the understanding
>>>>of climate. Scientists do not exactly know what caused the dimming and
>>>>the brightening, or how they affect the rest of the climate system.
>>>
>>>More grist for the global warming wealth redistribution scam to feed
>>>on.
>>>-Rich
>>
>>I doubt if anything comes close to the explosion of Krakatau in 1883 in
>>general air pollution sources, but we didn't have much measuring equipment
>>deployed back in those days, so it is hard to prove......
>>
>
> We have plenty of evidence of the affect that (and other eruptions)
> have had on the weather. We have, for example, ice that records such
> things very nicely. That fact is that the warming of the last few
> decades is the fastest we have a record for. In a short time the North
> Pole will be ice free in summer, there is already open water quite far
> north. That is just a sign, though. It is the Antarctic ice that is a
> danger. When the ice melts back far enough to read the land there will
> be a catastrophic rise in sea level. As in several feet in a very
> short period of time. Global warming is not a myth, it is not a
> liberal plot, it is a real documented problem. Hiding your eyes or
> asking for "fairness" does not make it go away.
>
>
Oh, yes, it IS getting warmer. That's why the global meeting had to be
moved three times because of snow! That's also why the best estimate of
the extent of global warming is .6 degrees (F) by the end of this
century! I am REALLY concerned. I recall a statement about the Mt.
Pinatubo eruption setting back global warming 20 years. It looks to me
like the feedback loop works to limit the rate at which things warm up.
--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)
RichA wrote:
> Then again, maybe global warming can help forstall the next ice age or
> minimize it?
> At least we KNOW ice ages happen, unlike
> the voodoo science of global warming predictions.
>
We also know it warms between the ice ages, and we are in one of those
warming periods now. But that doesn't fit the liberal doom and gloom,
keep the people scared of everything, party line.
--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)
Ron Hunter wrote:
> RichA wrote:
>
>> Then again, maybe global warming can help forstall the next ice age
>> or minimize it? At least we KNOW ice ages happen, unlike the voodoo
>> science of global warming predictions.
>>
> We also know it warms between the ice ages, and we are in one of
> those warming periods now. But that doesn't fit the liberal doom and
> gloom, keep the people scared of everything, party line.
I suggest you look up the 'hockey stick' of global warming. Coincides
very closely with the idustrial era.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3569604.stm
You can't believe that the tons of emissions we dump into the atmosphere
has no effect at all. That is wishful thinking at best.
--
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Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)
On Sat, 7 May 2005 20:54:59 -0700, in rec.photo.digital , "William
Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> in <rradnV7EmbkREODfRVn-rg@comcast.com>
wrote:
>
>"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
>message news:2j1r71pasuhcfqcirnuojit6h885vnmeiq@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 7 May 2005 17:56:02 -0700, in rec.photo.digital , "William
>> Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> in <Me2dnYmameMG_uDfRVn-vg@comcast.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Matt Silberstein" <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
>>>message news:vqhq71thkk45kl2l28t8nrpsp6986j1c54@4ax.com...
>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2005 14:06:41 -0700, in rec.photo.digital , "William
>>>> Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> in <X6ednQFd36rBQebfRVn-1w@comcast.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:1115404760.30777.0@lotis.uk.clara.net...
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>>> Funny how the most spendthift administration the US has ever had wants
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> make cuts in those programmes that might reveal the facts that are
>>>>>> unpapteable to their pro-oil and never-mind-about-climate-change
>>>>>> agenda...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>Of course....What do you expect? And the Democrats suppress statistics
>>>>>that
>>>>>show its give away programs don't have any permanent effect on the
>>>>>overall
>>>>>poverty level. Each administration turns its back on, and ignores
>>>>>information that is contradictory to its avowed political agenda.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have any evidence of a Democratic administration treating the
>>>> facts the way that this administration has? Let's forget what they did
>>>> on Iraq, have you seen how they are treating the science research?
>>>
>>>Yes, but this isn't the forum for it, so I am not going to extend the
>>>discussion any further.
>>>
>> Yeah, sure. You are willing to discuss off topic issues, but not back
>> up claims.
>
>What claims? - I made no claims.....If you want to discuss politics, get
>Alan's permission first......
Above: "And the Democrats suppress statistics that show its give away
programs don't have any permanent effect on the overall poverty level.
Each administration turns its back on, and ignores information that is
contradictory to its avowed political agenda. "
--
Matt Silberstein
All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)
On Sun, 08 May 2005 01:59:51 -0500, in rec.photo.digital , Ron Hunter
<rphunter@charter.net> in <INife.35289$Ow2.4121@fe06.lga> wrote:
>Matt Silberstein wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 May 2005 17:59:50 -0700, in rec.photo.digital , "William
>> Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> in <FLWdnWdcIfvj-eDfRVn-ig@comcast.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>>>news:iahq71hi4sru10pcbe32qs73cuak3i69j0@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 06 May 2005 11:43:27 -0400, Alan Browne
>>>><alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The new papers also call attention to a major gap in the understanding
>>>>>of climate. Scientists do not exactly know what caused the dimming and
>>>>>the brightening, or how they affect the rest of the climate system.
>>>>
>>>>More grist for the global warming wealth redistribution scam to feed
>>>>on.
>>>>-Rich
>>>
>>>I doubt if anything comes close to the explosion of Krakatau in 1883 in
>>>general air pollution sources, but we didn't have much measuring equipment
>>>deployed back in those days, so it is hard to prove......
>>>
>>
>> We have plenty of evidence of the affect that (and other eruptions)
>> have had on the weather. We have, for example, ice that records such
>> things very nicely. That fact is that the warming of the last few
>> decades is the fastest we have a record for. In a short time the North
>> Pole will be ice free in summer, there is already open water quite far
>> north. That is just a sign, though. It is the Antarctic ice that is a
>> danger. When the ice melts back far enough to read the land there will
>> be a catastrophic rise in sea level. As in several feet in a very
>> short period of time. Global warming is not a myth, it is not a
>> liberal plot, it is a real documented problem. Hiding your eyes or
>> asking for "fairness" does not make it go away.
>>
>>
>Oh, yes, it IS getting warmer. That's why the global meeting had to be
>moved three times because of snow!
local <> global. HTH.
>That's also why the best estimate of
>the extent of global warming is .6 degrees (F) by the end of this
>century! I am REALLY concerned.
As Scott Adams said, when did ignorance become a point of view? This
small rise have lead to a major shrinkage in all of the world's
glaciers, a dramatic rise in the extent of malaria, and open water at
the North Pole.
> I recall a statement about the Mt.
>Pinatubo eruption setting back global warming 20 years. It looks to me
>like the feedback loop works to limit the rate at which things warm up.
I suspect that your are not exactly an expert in this area. You might
try to read some of the science on this rather than, say, Fox News.
--
Matt Silberstein
All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
Archived from groups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm,rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)
RichA wrote:
> Then again, maybe global warming can help forstall the next ice age or
> minimize it?
Don't tinker with nature.
> At least we KNOW ice ages happen, unlike
> the voodoo science of global warming predictions.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3569604.stm
Doesn't look voodoo to me. The Bush administration really hates Michael
Mann.
--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
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