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Dear flintironstagg

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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October 22, 2011 4:40:34 PM

I am just about to buy two new gpu's to go with an os upgrade and a boot drive upgrade for BF3. I'm sorry if I shouldn't be jumping on here, but I read this and hadn't run across the bottle necking issue before. What is it that causes the bottleneck? I have a q9450 (quad core but not i series) and an evga 790i ultra board. With the cost of a new ssd, two new gpu's and a new os, I don't plan on changing the board or cpu soon.

Thanks.

More about : dear flintironstagg

a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:05:05 PM

a bottleneck is anything that can restrict performance on your system. Listing your full specs can help not just me, but the community to help you assess your situation and make the best decision for your budget. your CPU isn't that bad. knowing what your current system specs are, and what kind of gaming on how many and what resolution monitor will be very helpful in giving you a recommendation
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a c 143 U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:06:21 PM

Quote:
2. bottlenecking is like the neck of a bottle, it's smaller than the diameter of the whole bottle in general hence it prevents fluids to low as fast outta the bottle as opposed to a bottle with the same diameter from neck to bottom.

Ohh, i have always wanted to hear that
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a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:07:17 PM

ilysaml said:
Ohh, i have always wanted to hear that

makes ya feel all warm inside......
how about the " hot gates" in 300? thats a fair comparison
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a c 143 U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:08:47 PM

Actually it is
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a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:10:10 PM

that quad OP has would be alright for a single card application, as long as it isnt an enthusiast level card. a dual gpu setup would crush that poor little cpu
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a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:11:00 PM

And i love that im a "dear"....
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a c 143 U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:12:46 PM

FlintIronStagg said:
And i love that im a "dear"....

Don't tell your wife about that, she might get jealous
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a c 271 U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:16:05 PM

FlintIronStagg said:
that quad OP has would be alright for a single card application, as long as it isnt an enthusiast level card. a dual gpu setup would crush that poor little cpu

An e8400 can handle a pair of OC'd GTX560Ti's so a dual card setup would not for that CPU, yes the OP would get even better results with a 2600K but games would still be quite playable with that CPU and two cards. I'm guessing that you have never seen what it looks like when a CPU truly gets choked by two graphic cards?
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a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:17:46 PM

Mousemonkey said:
An e8400 can handle a pair of OC'd GTX560Ti's so a dual card setup would not for that CPU, yes the OP would get even better results with a 2600K but games would still be quite playable with that CPU and two cards. I'm guessing that you have never seen what it looks like when a CPU truly gets choked by two graphic cards?

not to the point of not being playable. ive recommended many times that people upgrade their card despite a slight bottleneck just for the sake that there isnt much out there that severe. Im mostly speaking from my own experience, even with a p2x4 @3.3, i see bottlenecks on my single 570.
Im also the type to like as much bang as i can get for what i have in my machine.
And i would never recommend someone to get a 2600k unless they really wanted to spend the money.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:22:59 PM

FlintIronStagg said:
not to the point of not being playable. ive recommended many times that people upgrade their card despite a slight bottleneck just for the sake that there isnt much out there that severe. Im mostly speaking from my own experience, even with a p2x4 @3.3, i see bottlenecks on my single 570.
Im also the type to like as much bang as i can get for what i have in my machine.

Then please desist from using terms like 'crush' in cases like this as you are posting misinformation and that's a breach of the ToS.
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a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:26:15 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Then please desist from using terms like 'crush' in cases like this as you are posting misinformation and that's a breach of the ToS.

tell me somethign then, a core2 @ 2.6 will bottleneck a single card.... how is it that you would recommend a dual gpu setup on it?
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a c 143 U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:27:16 PM

Ok, let's clarify some things...
A Q9450 is strong enough to get a close performance to a Phenom II 965 in gaming at it's default clock speed.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/51?vs=102

For the most time you get a CPU bottleneck when the CPU is not capable of handling the game, or you have excess of GPU power
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a c 271 U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:28:20 PM

FlintIronStagg said:
tell me somethign then, a core2 @ 2.6 will bottleneck a single card.... how is it that you would recommend a dual gpu setup on it?

When did I? The OP mentions having a Q9450.
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a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2011 6:43:18 PM

i stand corrected; i often forget that higher clock speeds and more cores is what amd does to try and reach the power of intel, and try to base things from my own experience, but i run amd atm, and am limited by clock speeds.
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October 22, 2011 7:28:15 PM

It seems ironic that I posted this to not jack someone else's thread, and then this happened... :) 

But seriously, Q9450, only 4gb of ddr3 ram (12600 sound right? Haven't looked at ram in a while), vista 32 (7-64 is sitting on my desk waiting for an ssd, probably a 128gb M4 if I can decide not to get a vertex 3 instead) currently a gtx 280 ftw (deciding between a 560 ti 2b or a 6950 2gb (I really like the toxic that is back in stock last I checked) and the area that is probably going to cause concern...I want the two cards with 2gb of ram because I run a 30" monitor that does 2560x1600 native.

The cost of the ssd, os, two gpu's and probably an external drive to make the transition from velociraptor to M4 is going to make it a while before I can get a new motherboard and cpu and ram.
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October 23, 2011 12:58:32 AM

Your Answer:
Matthew,

Glad to hear you were able to resolve the issue. The 790i is capable of running AMD cards in Crossfire. If you have any further questions please contact us again.

Regards,
EVGA

That's what I just received from EVGA. I think I'm going to go for the toxic 6950's with dual bios that unlock to a sort of 6970 with a flip of a switch.

Best PCIe Card For ~$530:
2 x Radeon HD 6950 2 GB in CrossFire (Check Prices)

Excellent 2560x1600 performance
2 x Radeon HD 6950 2 GB in CrossFire
Codename: "Cayman"
Process: 40 nm
Universal Shaders: 2816 (2 x 1408)
Texture Units: 176 (2 x 88)
ROPs: 64 (2 x 32)
Memory Bus: 256-bit
Core Speed MHz: 800
Memory Speed MHz: 1250 (5000 effective)
DirectX/Shader Model: DX 11/SM 5.0
Max TDP: 400 W (2 x 200 W)

100312-3SR Radeon HD...
Amazon.com
$264.99
TigerDirect
$269.99

Recent tests performed by our very own Thomas Soderstrom confirm that the Radeon HD 6900-series features vastly improved scaling performance in CrossFire compared to previous-generation boards. As such, a pair of these cards represents a realistic pinnacle for our recommendations. At $530, two Radeon HD 6950s handily beat the GeForce GTX 580, and even come very close to catching the pricier Radeon HD 6990 and GeForce GTX 590.

Read our full review of AMD's Radeon HD 6950 for more information on the card and its accompanying architecture.
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October 23, 2011 5:39:38 PM

I don't think my gtx 280 ftw will do all that well at 2560x1600 on BF3 so I went for two 2gb Sapphire Toxic 6950's that appear to mod to 6970's fairly easily and they appear to handle 2560x1600 in crossfire pretty well.
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a b U Graphics card
October 24, 2011 1:33:24 AM

Quote:
I dont think the actually fully mod into a 6970, just unlock the shaders, core counts are still the same

+1 im pretty sure its just the shaders unlock from a flash. Even if you dont get around to doing it, the 6950x2 will be a potent combo that you will be very happy with
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a c 172 U Graphics card
October 24, 2011 1:43:56 AM

axlrose said:
I don't think my gtx 280 ftw will do all that well at 2560x1600 on BF3 so I went for two 2gb Sapphire Toxic 6950's that appear to mod to 6970's fairly easily and they appear to handle 2560x1600 in crossfire pretty well.

at that resolution you will need a high end card or 2 mid range in xfire like you suggested regardless of CPU. Such a high resolution puts more stress on the GPU, but your CPU will limit your FPS in many games. I would overclock it to at least 3ghz.
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a b U Graphics card
October 24, 2011 1:45:37 AM

iam2thecrowe said:
at that resolution you will need a high end card or 2 mid range in xfire like you suggested regardless of CPU. Such a high resolution puts more stress on the GPU, but your CPU will limit your FPS in many games. I would overclock it to at least 3ghz.

agreed; to get the most frames for your money your cpu will need to be a little higher clocked. This is the bottleneck we were talking about earlier, but should be fine with an OC
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October 24, 2011 3:00:20 AM

Core counts are the same(6950 counts not 6970 counts), but shaders are unlocked and it's overclocked to the 880 I think the 6970 runs at...so technically almost a 6970, but a significant improvement over the stock 6950 I think, yes?

I have all of the directions on how to do the mod from CPU magazine, but the review of the card on newegg mostly say they just flipped the BIOS switch over while the pc was turned off and it unlocked the shaders on its own on reboot. This sounds too good to be true. Do you know anything about these cards?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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a b U Graphics card
October 24, 2011 3:13:26 AM

axlrose said:
Core counts are the same(6950 counts not 6970 counts), but shaders are unlocked and it's overclocked to the 880 I think the 6970 runs at...so technically almost a 6970, but a significant improvement over the stock 6950 I think, yes?

I have all of the directions on how to do the mod from CPU magazine, but the review of the card on newegg mostly say they just flipped the BIOS switch over while the pc was turned off and it unlocked the shaders on its own on reboot. This sounds too good to be true. Do you know anything about these cards?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Yes, you should see a significant difference with the shaders unlocked, but like I said earlier if you end up not doing it, the 6950x2 is still a potent combo
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November 9, 2011 12:05:53 AM

After many attempts to get crossfire working I finally went back to EVGA again. After telling me four times crossfire would work on my motherboard and my purchasing the two cards, they told me suddenly that it wouldn't. I spent a week e-mailing back and forth with tech support as they had clearly lead me astray, and I now have $600 in gpu's I can't use. They finally had a manager call me...and tell me crossfire won't work on my board. They just left me up a creek without a paddle...
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a c 143 U Graphics card
November 9, 2011 12:09:57 AM

WTF? i didn't follow the topic. What MOBO do you have, let me do a google search for you. EVGA is the best partner for nVidia, THEY STAY AWAY FROM AMD.

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November 19, 2011 3:03:41 PM

790i ultra. I'll see if I can post some of their responses.
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November 19, 2011 3:07:34 PM

I am looking to upgrade for BF3 and wondering about compatibility.

1) Can I use two 6950's in crossfire?

2) They seem to be pci express 2.1 (along with every other card out there) and the 790i ultra appears to do 2.0 only. What does that mean?

I am also hoping to add a vertex 3 120gb with windows 7 64 to make better use of the 4gb of ram I have as vista 32 doesn't seem to use 4gb as effectively.

Thanks.
Your Answer:
Matthew,

Yes you should be able to run two of those in Crossfire without issue. PCI-E 2.1 implements some power management and troubleshooting features of PCI-E 3.0, but still has the same bandwidth of PCI-E 2.0. You will not see a loss of performance using them in the PCI-E 2.0 slots. Upgrading to a 64-bit OS would allow you the full use of your 4GB of memory. Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Regards,
EVGA
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November 19, 2011 3:08:25 PM

Your Question:
Can I just ask one more time, can I run two 6950's in crossfire? I'm looking at two of these...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

What I'm finding about running crossfire on my 790i ulra is that it doesn't work and that only sli with nvidia works, but admittedly these posts are mostly from the 2008 era. I can't find anything newer and I bet there have been bios updates since then etc.

Thanks.
Your Answer:
Matthew,

Crossfire does not have any special requirements and works on almost all boards with 2 PCI-E 16x, 8x, and even 4x slots, including the 790i. If you have any further questions please contact us again.

Regards,
EVGA
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a c 143 U Graphics card
November 20, 2011 1:48:19 AM

unfortunately it doesn't support CF, even the hacked drivers reported buggy issues and poor scaling performance.

You'll have to buy a new MOBO supports CF/SLI.
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