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Best phone or carrier suggestion for a person who works in..

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Anonymous
June 25, 2005 11:18:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

No joke, and no, he isn't superman. Seems he and his team, work at area
hospitals, and while Nextel worked best for him, still not good enough in a
lead lined room. His pagers, low frequency he offered, seem to have no
problem working in these lead lined rooms. So he asked me: which carrier
would work best? Although my obvious answer was "none" I offered to bounce
it off the masses.

Has anyone's line of work taken them into a lead lined room, and did your
cell phone get a signal in there (Radiology I imagine). What carrier has
the phone/technology/frequency that tolerates a lead lined room.

I did suggest that if he really needed a signal, we could connect a wilson
antenna/amplifier, and wire it thru the wall somehow safely. But more than
likely, that solution would be carrier and frequency specific. But he
wanted to try the "what if" method first. We aim to please. dr
--
dr.news Better Price? (not better than you deserve, just more than you are
used to)
If I can help: dr.news@better-price.biz.delete-the-obvious or thru this
notes forum.
home of the better priced phone and service:
http://free.better-price.biz
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 11:18:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"dr.news@better.price.biz.nospam" wrote:
>
> No joke, and no, he isn't superman. Seems he and his team, work at area
> hospitals, and while Nextel worked best for him, still not good enough in a
> lead lined room. His pagers, low frequency he offered, seem to have no
> problem working in these lead lined rooms. So he asked me: which carrier
> would work best? Although my obvious answer was "none" I offered to bounce
> it off the masses.
>
> Has anyone's line of work taken them into a lead lined room, and did your
> cell phone get a signal in there (Radiology I imagine). What carrier has
> the phone/technology/frequency that tolerates a lead lined room.
>
> I did suggest that if he really needed a signal, we could connect a wilson
> antenna/amplifier, and wire it thru the wall somehow safely. But more than
> likely, that solution would be carrier and frequency specific. But he
> wanted to try the "what if" method first. We aim to please. dr

Probably not what you want to hear, but after working in many
a lead lined room, the only reliable solution is a landline.

Notan
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 1:07:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

In news:I5ive.5582$5C4.4017@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com
"dr.news@better.price.biz.nospam" <dr.news@better-price.biz.nospam> wrote:

> No joke, and no, he isn't superman.

I'd suggest almost anything from the Western Electric 2500 series, maybe
even the 500 series if things are really bad.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com
Related resources
June 26, 2005 5:07:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:18:00 GMT, "dr.news@better.price.biz.nospam"
<dr.news@better-price.biz.nospam> wrote:

>No joke, and no, he isn't superman. Seems he and his team, work at area
>hospitals, and while Nextel worked best for him, still not good enough in a
>lead lined room. His pagers, low frequency he offered, seem to have no
>problem working in these lead lined rooms. So he asked me: which carrier
>would work best? Although my obvious answer was "none" I offered to bounce
>it off the masses.
>
>Has anyone's line of work taken them into a lead lined room, and did your
>cell phone get a signal in there (Radiology I imagine). What carrier has
>the phone/technology/frequency that tolerates a lead lined room.
>
>I did suggest that if he really needed a signal, we could connect a wilson
>antenna/amplifier, and wire it thru the wall somehow safely. But more than
>likely, that solution would be carrier and frequency specific. But he
>wanted to try the "what if" method first. We aim to please. dr


If they get anything while inside a lead lined room they need to call
the lead liner guy back to fix his shoddy job.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 5:07:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Harry"
|
| If they get anything while inside a lead lined room they need to call
| the lead liner guy back to fix his shoddy job.

Actually a lead lined room can be impervious to x-rays but not to other EMF.

Hint the design and physics involved in a lead lined room are different than
those of a screen room.
June 26, 2005 12:16:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

dr.news@better.price.biz.nospam wrote:
> No joke, and no, he isn't superman. Seems he and his team, work at area
> hospitals, and while Nextel worked best for him, still not good enough in a
> lead lined room. His pagers, low frequency he offered, seem to have no
> problem working in these lead lined rooms. So he asked me: which carrier
> would work best? Although my obvious answer was "none" I offered to bounce
> it off the masses.

His pager may work because a paging transmitter may be on site. I know
that is the case at a local hospital. They installed a high powered 30
MHz transmitter years ago so the pagers would work throughout the hospital.

>
> Has anyone's line of work taken them into a lead lined room, and did your
> cell phone get a signal in there (Radiology I imagine). What carrier has
> the phone/technology/frequency that tolerates a lead lined room.
>
> I did suggest that if he really needed a signal, we could connect a wilson
> antenna/amplifier, and wire it thru the wall somehow safely. But more than
> likely, that solution would be carrier and frequency specific. But he
> wanted to try the "what if" method first. We aim to please. dr
June 26, 2005 7:28:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 00:49:30 -0400, "NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>"Harry"
>|
>| If they get anything while inside a lead lined room they need to call
>| the lead liner guy back to fix his shoddy job.
>
>Actually a lead lined room can be impervious to x-rays but not to other EMF.
>
>Hint the design and physics involved in a lead lined room are different than
>those of a screen room.
>

I would think it the other way around. A screen room can be
impervious to radio but may not stop X-rays. Screen will block the
long wavelength radio waves. The shorter X-rays will pass right
through it. Solid lead will block X-ray, UV, visible light, IR and
radio. Gamma might make it... not sure on that one.

In any case, I would be very surprised if he finds a cell phone that
gives reasonable service of any kind in a lead lined room without
there being a hard wired repeater in the room.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 7:28:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

In article <06htb1p89bnmst0gk359dte1aiu6m86i09@4ax.com>,
Harry <harry@the.end> wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 00:49:30 -0400, "NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> >"Harry"
> >|
> >| If they get anything while inside a lead lined room they need to call
> >| the lead liner guy back to fix his shoddy job.
> >
> >Actually a lead lined room can be impervious to x-rays but not to other EMF.
> >
> >Hint the design and physics involved in a lead lined room are different than
> >those of a screen room.
> >
>
> I would think it the other way around. A screen room can be
> impervious to radio but may not stop X-rays. Screen will block the
> long wavelength radio waves. The shorter X-rays will pass right
> through it. Solid lead will block X-ray, UV, visible light, IR and
> radio. Gamma might make it... not sure on that one.

Shielding against ionizing radiation (X-rays) is dependent upon mass and
the "size" of the atoms that make it up. Lead has fairly "big" atoms,
and is very heavy.

Shielding against non-ionizing electromagnetic radiation is dependent on
the conductivity of the material, and will work well if there are no
apertures in it larger than a quarter of a wavelength or so. That's how
it's possible to make microwave ovens with doors you can see through.

Lead is a poor conductor (unless you get it really, really cold), so
it's not as good a shield for "radio" waves. That's why screen rooms are
made of copper.

isw
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 11:18:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"dr.news@better.price.biz.nospam" <dr.news@better-price.biz.nospam> wrote in
message news:I5ive.5582$5C4.4017@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> No joke, and no, he isn't superman. Seems he and his team, work at area
> hospitals, and while Nextel worked best for him, still not good enough in
> a lead lined room.

People aren't suppose to be using cell phones or other radio transmitting
devices in hospitals anyway. It can interfere with the medical equipment.
Tell him his one-way pager is best.

-Jeff
June 27, 2005 12:25:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:44:37 -0700, Isaac Wingfield <isw@witzend.com>
wrote:

>Shielding against ionizing radiation (X-rays) is dependent upon mass and
>the "size" of the atoms that make it up. Lead has fairly "big" atoms,
>and is very heavy.
>
>Shielding against non-ionizing electromagnetic radiation is dependent on
>the conductivity of the material, and will work well if there are no
>apertures in it larger than a quarter of a wavelength or so. That's how
>it's possible to make microwave ovens with doors you can see through.
>
>Lead is a poor conductor (unless you get it really, really cold), so
>it's not as good a shield for "radio" waves. That's why screen rooms are
>made of copper.

Lead my be a not as good a conductor as copper but to say it is a poor
conductor is flat out wrong.
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 12:25:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Harry wrote:
>
> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:44:37 -0700, Isaac Wingfield <isw@witzend.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Shielding against ionizing radiation (X-rays) is dependent upon mass and
> >the "size" of the atoms that make it up. Lead has fairly "big" atoms,
> >and is very heavy.
> >
> >Shielding against non-ionizing electromagnetic radiation is dependent on
> >the conductivity of the material, and will work well if there are no
> >apertures in it larger than a quarter of a wavelength or so. That's how
> >it's possible to make microwave ovens with doors you can see through.
> >
> >Lead is a poor conductor (unless you get it really, really cold), so
> >it's not as good a shield for "radio" waves. That's why screen rooms are
> >made of copper.
>
> Lead my be a not as good a conductor as copper but to say it is a poor
> conductor is flat out wrong.

Lead isn't a poor conductor, it's a TERRIBLE conductor!

Notan
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 12:31:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

In article <11budufbppvi853@corp.supernews.com>,
"Jeff P" <jeffpNO@SPAMruralramp.net> wrote:

> "dr.news@better.price.biz.nospam" <dr.news@better-price.biz.nospam> wrote in
> message news:I5ive.5582$5C4.4017@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> > No joke, and no, he isn't superman. Seems he and his team, work at area
> > hospitals, and while Nextel worked best for him, still not good enough in
> > a lead lined room.
>
> People aren't suppose to be using cell phones or other radio transmitting
> devices in hospitals anyway. It can interfere with the medical equipment.
> Tell him his one-way pager is best.

If medical equipment is so poorly designed and fragile that the
*accidental* use of a cell phone by some innocent person could cause it
to malfunction, then the manufacturers should be sued for incompetence.

Isaac
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 12:56:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Notan wrote:
> Harry wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:44:37 -0700, Isaac Wingfield <isw@witzend.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Lead is a poor conductor (unless you get it really, really cold), so
>>> it's not as good a shield for "radio" waves. That's why screen rooms are
>>> made of copper.

Lead has other problems that make it unsuitable for use in a screen room:
cost, too soft, environmentally hazardous, etc.


>> Lead my be a not as good a conductor as copper but to say it is a poor
>> conductor is flat out wrong.
>
> Lead isn't a poor conductor, it's a TERRIBLE conductor!


Everything is relative.
http://www.mindbranch.com/reports/pdfs/R2-708Sample.pdf
shows that lead has about 1/12th the conductivity of copper.
That is significant mainly in high amperage circuits. You could
compensate by making the lead conductor 12 times more massive than
a copper wire, but it certainly wouldn't be cost effective. For a typical
high impedance signal circuit the poorer conductivity of lead would not
be a factor.

--
John Richards, BSEE
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 1:05:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

>
> Lead isn't a poor conductor, it's a TERRIBLE conductor!
>
> Notan

So why are the battery terminals in my car made of lead?
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 1:05:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

High wrote:
>
> >
> > Lead isn't a poor conductor, it's a TERRIBLE conductor!
> >
> > Notan
>
> So why are the battery terminals in my car made of lead?

See John's post and http://tinyurl.com/bm8hq ("The typical lead-acid
battery has a jar, top cover with vents (both Wet and VRLA), watering
opening with cover, and battery posts. Due to chemical compatibility
considerations, the battery posts and terminals are made out of lead
or a lead alloy.")

Notan
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 2:07:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Isaac Wingfield wrote:
>
> In article <11budufbppvi853@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Jeff P" <jeffpNO@SPAMruralramp.net> wrote:
>
> > "dr.news@better.price.biz.nospam" <dr.news@better-price.biz.nospam> wrote in
> > message news:I5ive.5582$5C4.4017@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> > > No joke, and no, he isn't superman. Seems he and his team, work at area
> > > hospitals, and while Nextel worked best for him, still not good enough in
> > > a lead lined room.
> >
> > People aren't suppose to be using cell phones or other radio transmitting
> > devices in hospitals anyway. It can interfere with the medical equipment.
> > Tell him his one-way pager is best.
>
> If medical equipment is so poorly designed and fragile that the
> *accidental* use of a cell phone by some innocent person could cause it
> to malfunction, then the manufacturers should be sued for incompetence.

This topic has been discussed, and discussed, and discussed.

One of the problems is that some equipment is older than newer
cell phone technology.

If you find this fact troublesome, stay away from hospitals! <g>

Notan
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 2:32:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

In news:11budufbppvi853@corp.supernews.com,
Jeff P <jeffpNO@SPAMruralramp.net> typed:
> "dr.news@better.price.biz.nospam" <dr.news@better-price.biz.nospam>
> wrote in message
> news:I5ive.5582$5C4.4017@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
>> No joke, and no, he isn't superman. Seems he and his team, work at
>> area hospitals, and while Nextel worked best for him, still not good
>> enough in a lead lined room.
>
> People aren't suppose to be using cell phones or other radio
> transmitting devices in hospitals anyway. It can interfere with the
> medical equipment. Tell him his one-way pager is best.
>
> -Jeff


Seems to depend on the hospital. Last time I was visiting in the local
hospital - I walked thru the Cardiac Intensive Care Unit talking on my cell
phone and noticed several other people talking on their phones. No one said
anything. In the rooms the nurses wrote their cell phone number on the board
so the patients could call them if they needed something.
The cell tower right next to the hospital would cause a lot more
interference than a low powered phone.
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 4:54:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

As long as we are off-topic: there is a new revolution of battery on the
horizon. And oddly enough it starts in Peoria, Illinois. dr

Peoria, IL - June 22, 2005 - Now beginning its third year of business since
its spin-out from Caterpillar Inc. under the Peoria NEXT initiative, Firefly
Energy Inc. today announced the company has entered into an agreement to
develop and produce its revolutionary battery technology on an exclusive
basis for select upcoming outdoor lawn products sold by Electrolux Outdoor
Products .

--
dr.news Better Price? (not better than you deserve, just more than you are
used to)
If I can help: dr.news@better-price.biz.delete-the-obvious or thru this
notes forum.
home of the better priced phone and service:
http://free.better-price.biz




"Notan" <notan@ddress.com> wrote in message
news:42BF1B5E.260100E6@ddress.com...
> High wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Lead isn't a poor conductor, it's a TERRIBLE conductor!
>> >
>> > Notan
>>
>> So why are the battery terminals in my car made of lead?
>
> See John's post and http://tinyurl.com/bm8hq ("The typical lead-acid
> battery has a jar, top cover with vents (both Wet and VRLA), watering
> opening with cover, and battery posts. Due to chemical compatibility
> considerations, the battery posts and terminals are made out of lead
> or a lead alloy.")
>
> Notan
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 7:29:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Jeff P wrote:
> People aren't suppose to be using cell phones or other radio transmitting
> devices in hospitals anyway. It can interfere with the medical equipment.
> Tell him his one-way pager is best.

Then one hears about the hospital that had the pager transmitter on the
roof so the doctors' pagers would work in all parts of the hospital......
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 7:29:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

CharlesH wrote:

>> People aren't suppose to be using cell phones or other radio
>> transmitting devices in hospitals anyway. It can interfere with the
>> medical equipment. Tell him his one-way pager is best.
>
>
> Then one hears about the hospital that had the pager transmitter on the
> roof so the doctors' pagers would work in all parts of the hospital......

The local hospital system in Lake County, Ohio, allows *everyone* to use
one-way pagers (not just doctors).

They don't allow cell phones to be turned on, and two-way pagers must be
set to receive only.

--
JustThe.net - Steve Sobol / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Coming to you from Southern California's High Desert, where the
temperatures are as high as the gas prices! / 888.480.4NET (4638)

"Life's like an hourglass glued to the table" --Anna Nalick, "Breathe"
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 8:04:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Harry" <harry@the.end> wrote in message
news:06htb1p89bnmst0gk359dte1aiu6m86i09@4ax.com...
| On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 00:49:30 -0400, "NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
|
| >"Harry"
| >|
| >| If they get anything while inside a lead lined room they need to call
| >| the lead liner guy back to fix his shoddy job.
| >
| >Actually a lead lined room can be impervious to x-rays but not to other
EMF.
| >
| >Hint the design and physics involved in a lead lined room are different
than
| >those of a screen room.
| >
|
| I would think it the other way around. A screen room can be
| impervious to radio but may not stop X-rays. Screen will block the
| long wavelength radio waves. The shorter X-rays will pass right
| through it. Solid lead will block X-ray, UV, visible light, IR and
| radio. Gamma might make it... not sure on that one.

The point is the design. What's required for blocking X-rays does not
require an emf hard site.
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 8:09:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Isaac Wingfield" <isw@witzend.com> wrote in message
news:isw-6FBED2.20313626062005@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
| In article <11budufbppvi853@corp.supernews.com>,
| "Jeff P" <jeffpNO@SPAMruralramp.net> wrote:
|
| > "dr.news@better.price.biz.nospam" <dr.news@better-price.biz.nospam>
wrote in
| > message news:I5ive.5582$5C4.4017@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
| > > No joke, and no, he isn't superman. Seems he and his team, work at
area
| > > hospitals, and while Nextel worked best for him, still not good enough
in
| > > a lead lined room.
| >
| > People aren't suppose to be using cell phones or other radio
transmitting
| > devices in hospitals anyway. It can interfere with the medical
equipment.
| > Tell him his one-way pager is best.
|
| If medical equipment is so poorly designed and fragile that the
| *accidental* use of a cell phone by some innocent person could cause it
| to malfunction, then the manufacturers should be sued for incompetence.

Which is the very reason hospitals have the no cell phone rule. The question
I raise is why are two way radios allowed?
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 10:25:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Notan" <notan@ddress.com> wrote in message news:42BF7B64.70F83B07@ddress.com...
>
> One of the problems is that some equipment is older than newer
> cell phone technology.
>
> If you find this fact troublesome, stay away from hospitals! <g>
>
> Notan

I try to follow that advice, even though I *don't* find the fact troublesome.
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 10:25:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"John R. Copeland" wrote:
>
> "Notan" <notan@ddress.com> wrote in message news:42BF7B64.70F83B07@ddress.com...
> >
> > One of the problems is that some equipment is older than newer
> > cell phone technology.
> >
> > If you find this fact troublesome, stay away from hospitals! <g>
> >
> > Notan
>
> I try to follow that advice, even though I *don't* find the fact troublesome.

I do, too... And I *work* in the medical field! <g>

Notan
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 3:48:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

> Which is the very reason hospitals have the no cell phone rule. The
question
> I raise is why are two way radios allowed?

Read up on what frequencies are used for different services. Where radios
live versus cell phones is considerably different. Higher frequency devices
are more likely to cause interference. How much is hotly debated but given
the risks versus the mindless conversations most folks have on their cell
phones... well..

Another point to consider would be a cell phone dock like the Dock-N-Talk.
Plug the cell phone into the dock and run wire to a phone actually inside
the room. Granted, that'd mean running wire and putting in another handset
but at least it would work.
June 29, 2005 12:56:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:56:03 GMT, "John Richards"
<jr70@blackhole.invalid> wrote:

>Everything is relative.
>http://www.mindbranch.com/reports/pdfs/R2-708Sample.pdf
>shows that lead has about 1/12th the conductivity of copper.
>That is significant mainly in high amperage circuits. You could
>compensate by making the lead conductor 12 times more massive than
>a copper wire, but it certainly wouldn't be cost effective. For a typical
>high impedance signal circuit the poorer conductivity of lead would not
>be a factor.

Thank you
June 29, 2005 12:56:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 21:05:25 GMT, High <789@123.456> wrote:

>
>>
>> Lead isn't a poor conductor, it's a TERRIBLE conductor!
>>
>> Notan
>
>So why are the battery terminals in my car made of lead?

Thank you
June 29, 2005 1:01:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:04:06 -0400, "NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>The point is the design. What's required for blocking X-rays does not
>require an emf hard site.

I agree. But a properly lead shielded room that will block X-rays
will by its coincidental nature, severely attenuate a cell phone
signal severely enough that it is for the most part useless.

I think it is a ridiculous & potentially expensive endeavor to try and
find a cell phone that will work in such an environment.
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 4:28:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"wkearney99"

| > Which is the very reason hospitals have the no cell phone rule.

| The question I raise is why are two way radios allowed?
|
| Read up on what frequencies are used for different services. Where radios
| live versus cell phones is considerably different. Higher frequency
devices
| are more likely to cause interference. How much is hotly debated but
given
| the risks versus the mindless conversations most folks have on their cell
| phones... well..

Read up on them? I've been designing RF equipment and the instrumentation
used in the medical field for 40 years. The point is most such policies are
based on perception and not good engineering practice. Not unlike the
notices posted "Microwave oven in use" Made sense in the 60s when
pacemakers were first used (most them were bigger than a PDA, external and
wired through the chest wall)
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 9:26:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

In <tP3xe.13563$2S.4397@fe03.lga> "NotMe" <me@privacy.net> writes:

>used in the medical field for 40 years. The point is most such policies are
>based on perception and not good engineering practice. Not unlike the
>notices posted "Microwave oven in use" Made sense in the 60s when
>pacemakers were first used (most them were bigger than a PDA, external and
>wired through the chest wall)

The concern regarding pacemakers extends until today. Suprisingly, it's
not (directly) related to the microwaves or other RF, but... to the
magnetic fields the ovens generate.

Many pacemakers in the past few decades were designed to go into a "test
mode" when exposed to a magnetic field. This was, of course, only supposed
to be done in the cardiologist's electrophysiology lab...

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 9:26:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

danny burstein wrote:
>
> In <tP3xe.13563$2S.4397@fe03.lga> "NotMe" <me@privacy.net> writes:
>
> >used in the medical field for 40 years. The point is most such policies are
> >based on perception and not good engineering practice. Not unlike the
> >notices posted "Microwave oven in use" Made sense in the 60s when
> >pacemakers were first used (most them were bigger than a PDA, external and
> >wired through the chest wall)
>
> The concern regarding pacemakers extends until today. Suprisingly, it's
> not (directly) related to the microwaves or other RF, but... to the
> magnetic fields the ovens generate.
>
> Many pacemakers in the past few decades were designed to go into a "test
> mode" when exposed to a magnetic field. This was, of course, only supposed
> to be done in the cardiologist's electrophysiology lab...

When a magnet is placed over them, a large number are still designed to
eliminate sensing and put the pacemaker into an asynchronous pacing mode.

Notan
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 9:26:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"danny burstein" <dannyb@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D a2k6i$3ho$1@reader2.panix.com...
| In <tP3xe.13563$2S.4397@fe03.lga> "NotMe" <me@privacy.net> writes:
|
| >used in the medical field for 40 years. The point is most such policies
are
| >based on perception and not good engineering practice. Not unlike the
| >notices posted "Microwave oven in use" Made sense in the 60s when
| >pacemakers were first used (most them were bigger than a PDA, external
and
| >wired through the chest wall)
|
| The concern regarding pacemakers extends until today. Suprisingly, it's
| not (directly) related to the microwaves or other RF, but... to the
| magnetic fields the ovens generate.
|
| Many pacemakers in the past few decades were designed to go into a "test
| mode" when exposed to a magnetic field. This was, of course, only supposed
| to be done in the cardiologist's electrophysiology lab...

Are you referring to the magnetic field produced by the magnetron or to a
magnetic field produced by the electric power consumed?
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 11:03:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

>
> Read up on them? I've been designing RF equipment and the instrumentation
> used in the medical field for 40 years. The point is most such policies
> are
> based on perception and not good engineering practice. Not unlike the
> notices posted "Microwave oven in use" Made sense in the 60s when
> pacemakers were first used (most them were bigger than a PDA, external and
> wired through the chest wall)


As I posted on another thread, cell phone by physicians is common in many
(probably most) hospitals. Usually, hospital employees are not allowed to
use cell phones because they are supposed to be working, not yakking it up
with their friends. Recently, my hospital yanked cell-phone priveleges from
the X-ray techs because patients complained that they feel neglected when
the techs take personal calls while zapping films. This is no different
than not allowing office or factory workers to use their cellphones while on
the job.

Bottom line is: cell phones are perfectly safe in hospitals, and are
permitted to physicians - even in operating rooms and ICU's. The general
"ban" on cell phones is to maintain a professional environment, decrease
noise levels, and discourage personal phone calls by hospital employees.
Patient safety is not at risk.


Bill T
Anonymous
July 1, 2005 11:07:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Notan" <notan@ddress.com> wrote in message
news:42C4D80E.4BDC686C@ddress.com...
>> When a magnet is placed over them, a large number are still designed to
> eliminate sensing and put the pacemaker into an asynchronous pacing mode.
>


The problem is that without knowing the make of the pacemaker, it is not
certain what the magnet will actually do.

Bill T
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 11:52:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

High <789@123.456> wrote in news:p MEve.261$pg.125@news01.roc.ny:

> So why are the battery terminals in my car made of lead?
>
>

Shhh...don't confuse them with facts. You're spoiling the entertainment
value pointing out the obvious to them...(c;

--
Larry

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in
chalk.
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 1:11:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Larry W4CSC wrote:
> High <789@123.456> wrote in
> news:p MEve.261$pg.125@news01.roc.ny:
>
>> So why are the battery terminals in my car made of lead?
>>
>>
>
> Shhh...don't confuse them with facts. You're spoiling
> the entertainment value pointing out the obvious to
> them...(c;

Aren't they made of carbon and capped with lead?

-Quick
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 5:47:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

"Quick" <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in
news:1120666642.656198@sj-nntpcache-3:

> Aren't they made of carbon and capped with lead?
>

Nope...solid lead. Drill a hole in one some time....

Great conductors. Don't think so? Take a short piece of #000 welding
cable and just short out the terminals and watch it melt the wire, if the
battery's good. Takes 50-150 amps to crank the car...more in cold weather.

If the lead had any appreciable resistance, it would melt the terminals and
the inter-cell jumpers, also made of lead inside the plastic between cells.
Lead melts at quite a low temperature...it's soft to start out with.

--
Larry

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in
chalk.
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 8:27:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

noone@home.com (Larry W4CSC) wrote in
news:Xns968B50896C267w4csc@63.223.7.253:

> High <789@123.456> wrote in news:p MEve.261$pg.125@news01.roc.ny:
>
>> So why are the battery terminals in my car made of lead?
>>
>>
>
> Shhh...don't confuse them with facts. You're spoiling the
> entertainment value pointing out the obvious to them...(c;

Lead ->is a relatively poor conductor. Taking copper's conductivity as
1.0, the conductivity of lead is only .08.

A car battery treminal is made of lead because it's just an extension of
the end plate of a lead-acid battery.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 8:27:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Bert Hyman wrote:
>
> noone@home.com (Larry W4CSC) wrote in
> news:Xns968B50896C267w4csc@63.223.7.253:
>
> > High <789@123.456> wrote in news:p MEve.261$pg.125@news01.roc.ny:
> >
> >> So why are the battery terminals in my car made of lead?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Shhh...don't confuse them with facts. You're spoiling the
> > entertainment value pointing out the obvious to them...(c;
>
> Lead ->is a relatively poor conductor. Taking copper's conductivity as
> 1.0, the conductivity of lead is only .08.
>
> A car battery treminal is made of lead because it's just an extension of
> the end plate of a lead-acid battery.

Shhh... Don't confuse Larry with facts...

Notan
Anonymous
August 1, 2005 8:24:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <Xns968B8C83EA4A9w4csc@63.223.7.253> on Wed, 06 Jul 2005 13:47:50 -0400,
Larry W4CSC <noone@home.com> wrote:

>"Quick" <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in
>news:1120666642.656198@sj-nntpcache-3:
>
>> Aren't they made of carbon and capped with lead?
>
>Nope...solid lead. Drill a hole in one some time....
>
>Great conductors. Don't think so? Take a short piece of #000 welding
>cable and just short out the terminals and watch it melt the wire, if the
>battery's good. Takes 50-150 amps to crank the car...more in cold weather.
>
>If the lead had any appreciable resistance, it would melt the terminals and
>the inter-cell jumpers, also made of lead inside the plastic between cells.
>Lead melts at quite a low temperature...it's soft to start out with.

<http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/249.html&gt;:

Lead is a naturally-occurring chemical element that is toxic to humans.
Known as (Pb), lead's scientific name and symbol are derrived from the
Latin word plumbum meaning "liquid silver." A malleable, bluish-white metal
with POOR ELECTRICAL CONDUCTIVITY ... [emphasis added]

Because lead is such a poor conductor, in electrical applications it's
commonly alloyed with copper; i.e., that's not pure lead.

--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/&gt;

"A little learning is a dangerous thing." [Alexander Pope]
"It is better to sit in silence and appear ignorant,
than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." [Mark Twain]
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 10:08:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

I called the person who asked me about this question in the first place.
His line has been disconnected. I never got to give him an answer, but best
was for him to fwd his calls to the landline wired into the lead room. That
will work all the time. Thanks for the dialogue... learned some. dr
--
dr.news Better Price? (not better than you deserve, just more than you are
used to)
If I can help: dr.news@better-price.biz.delete-the-obvious or thru this
notes forum.
home of the better priced phone and service:
http://free.better-price.biz

"John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:T0sHe.6755$p%3.33430@typhoon.sonic.net...
> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <Xns968B8C83EA4A9w4csc@63.223.7.253> on Wed, 06 Jul 2005
> 13:47:50 -0400,
> Larry W4CSC <noone@home.com> wrote:
>
>>"Quick" <quick7135-news@NOSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in
>>news:1120666642.656198@sj-nntpcache-3:
>>
>>> Aren't they made of carbon and capped with lead?
>>
>>Nope...solid lead. Drill a hole in one some time....
>>
>>Great conductors. Don't think so? Take a short piece of #000 welding
>>cable and just short out the terminals and watch it melt the wire, if the
>>battery's good. Takes 50-150 amps to crank the car...more in cold
>>weather.
>>
>>If the lead had any appreciable resistance, it would melt the terminals
>>and
>>the inter-cell jumpers, also made of lead inside the plastic between
>>cells.
>>Lead melts at quite a low temperature...it's soft to start out with.
>
> <http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/249.html&gt;:
>
> Lead is a naturally-occurring chemical element that is toxic to humans.
> Known as (Pb), lead's scientific name and symbol are derrived from the
> Latin word plumbum meaning "liquid silver." A malleable, bluish-white
> metal
> with POOR ELECTRICAL CONDUCTIVITY ... [emphasis added]
>
> Because lead is such a poor conductor, in electrical applications it's
> commonly alloyed with copper; i.e., that's not pure lead.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/&gt;
>
> "A little learning is a dangerous thing." [Alexander Pope]
> "It is better to sit in silence and appear ignorant,
> than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." [Mark Twain]
!