Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Need criticism please

Last response: in Systems
Share
December 22, 2011 8:04:03 PM

Hey
I'm looking to buy a PC online and I'd like pros, cons and criticism on my selection.
It will be for moderate gaming, watching videos, browsing the net...
Looking for a somewhat silent PC too.
Not looking to upgrade any hardware so I didn't go for a good motherboard.

Intel Core i3 2100 (CPU)
Xigmatek HDT S963 (CPU Cooler)
Windows 7 64 bit
Gigabyte H61M-S2P (Motherboard)
4 GB Ram DDR3 1333 MHZ (1x4) - Would it be worth going for 2x2 or even 8 GB 2x4?
Corsair 60 GB Force3 SSD Sata III 6.0 Gb/s (SSD)
Nvidia GeForce GTS 450 1 GB
Wireless 802.11N 300 Mbps MIMO Pci Card (would it be better going for PCI-E? If so, why?)
21.5" LCD Widescreen monitor, 1680 x 1050, 5ms, 5,000:1
Xigmatek Asgard (PC Case)
500W Xigmatek (PSU) - Would I need a better PSU? Or could I just go with 400W Xigmatek?

I'm using DinoPC to build it and it adds up to £599.37
I think I've given all the information needed, could you guys evaluate this for me please?

More about : criticism

December 22, 2011 8:26:57 PM

I don't know why you would want an aftermarket CPU cooler. I can't imagine the 2100 failing with a stock fan and a good cooling setup for the whole computer.

For anyone that has a 64 bit OS, I always suggest getting 2x 4GB RAM sticks. RAM is too cheap and the benefits are potentially quite large having 8GB instead of 4gb.

Side note, I have 2x 2GB listed in my signature. I just got Windows 7 this month and was using XP 32 before it so I couldn't use more than 4 even if I wanted to. My next upgrade is 2x 4GB. I do eat my own cooking, I just haven't had time to yet personally.

The RAM manufacturer matters too, a lot potentially. I would type in H61M-S2P RAM in google and find the link going to "www.crucial.com" and their website will show you a variety of RAM sticks they make that are compatible with your board and guaranteed to work in it. Their RAM is made by the Micron company and sold under their own brand name (Crucial) and they do more quality testing than almost all other RAM sellers and their standards for what passes and fails is stricter than most other companies too. This translates into better performance with fewer problems for you.

Corsair 60GB SSD - I would go for a 128 if I were going to get one, that way I could install most all the programs I want to install directly onto the SSD and not just the OS. If you have only a 60 GB SSD there is some potential there that you will go beyond that with just programs and have to install programs on the slower drive.

The likelihood of that is greatly reduced with a 128 GB instead of a 60, but the cost is considerably more so you do pay for that privelege.

GTS 450 - Not a good gamer card. I wouldn't even use it for moderate gaming. I would highly recommend if you want to do any gaming that you consider a 6670 or a 6770 instead of this. For movies too.

Wireless card - no PCIE, the video card needs that space.

21.5" monitor - Things are going towards LEDs, I would get a LED monitor if it were me. The cost should be pretty close to similar sized full LCDs. Also, the brand matters. Viewsonic is a good brand.

Xigmatek Asgard - If you are going for a lowest of the low end case, it should be fine. Your internals aren't super heat generating or anything so perhaps it would be fine. You can get this thing for very nearly just the cost of shipping and it isn't because it is worth its weight in gold.

If that is what you are aiming for, then it is fine, but it is important to note that the PSU is TOP mount not bottom. This is an old architecture that puts greatly increased demands on the PSU for pulling all the heat in the computer into itself and pushing it out the back of the case.

I would highly suggest you look for some bargain basement case that has a bottom mount PSU if you can. This greatly increases PSU longevity.

500w Xigmatek PSU - I would avoid it. Get an Antec 520w or XFX 550w instead. These are solid brands that people trust. People never suggest to others around here to get Xigmatec brand PSUs because they aren't known in the PSU space.

They may have decent cases and good cooling parts, but that doesn't mean they make good PSUs.

Stick with a brand that is known to have really good PSUs like the two I mentioned.

December 22, 2011 9:47:09 PM

Quote:
I don't know why you would want an aftermarket CPU cooler. I can't imagine the 2100 failing with a stock fan and a good cooling setup for the whole computer.


I have my i3-2120 running with a Hyper 212 and it's been great so far. I always tend to prefer good aftermarket coolers over the stock ones Intel and AMD include.

Quote:
500w Xigmatek PSU - I would avoid it. Get an Antec 520w or XFX 550w instead. These are solid brands that people trust. People never suggest to others around here to get Xigmatec brand PSUs because they aren't known in the PSU space.

They may have decent cases and good cooling parts, but that doesn't mean they make good PSUs.

Stick with a brand that is known to have really good PSUs like the two I mentioned.


I completely agree here. If a PSU isn't certified and rated - don't buy it!!! Antec, XFX, Corsair, Cooler Master all make great PSUs that won't cost an arm and a leg - you want to avoid brands like Xigmatek, Ultra, Diablotek, Coolmax, and so on - they're not well rated or respected among PSU makers. In fact you should probably read this about choosing a good PSU: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-psu-re...

Quote:
GTS 450 - Not a good gamer card. I wouldn't even use it for moderate gaming. I would highly recommend if you want to do any gaming that you consider a 6670 or a 6770 instead of this. For movies too.


Actually I'd recommend the 6790 since you can use native HDMI with the card - and it's won Tom's "Best GPUs for the money" like 5 months in a row now.

Quote:
The RAM manufacturer matters too, a lot potentially. I would type in H61M-S2P RAM in google and find the link going to "www.crucial.com" and their website will show you a variety of RAM sticks they make that are compatible with your board and guaranteed to work in it. Their RAM is made by the Micron company and sold under their own brand name (Crucial) and they do more quality testing than almost all other RAM sellers and their standards for what passes and fails is stricter than most other companies too. This translates into better performance with fewer problems for you.


The best thing to do is to check the motherboard manufacturer's website and see what they recommend - but I agree that RAM is key, but if you get the wrong RAM it could mean bad things down the road (and I know from experience).

Quote:
Not looking to upgrade any hardware so I didn't go for a good motherboard.


That is certainly not the best way to go about picking computer parts. You want to get the best computer parts you can for the money and not have to worry about upgrading later on. The H61 is not bad, but limited expansion means that when the time comes to upgrade, you don't want to have to replace your whole motherboard, CPU, RAM, and so on. It's better to pick parts that will allow you to maintain your system in the long run with minimum upgrades and the fewest headaches possible. Choosing a motherboard based on that logic will create lots of frustration in the long run.

Quote:
Corsair 60 GB Force3 SSD Sata III 6.0 Gb/s (SSD)


Go with the Crucial M4 over the Force 3 - there seems to be a lot of problems with these drives from what I've been reading.
Related resources
December 22, 2011 9:58:56 PM

Raiddinn said:
I don't know why you would want an aftermarket CPU cooler. I can't imagine the 2100 failing with a stock fan and a good cooling setup for the whole computer.

For anyone that has a 64 bit OS, I always suggest getting 2x 4GB RAM sticks. RAM is too cheap and the benefits are potentially quite large having 8GB instead of 4gb.

Side note, I have 2x 2GB listed in my signature. I just got Windows 7 this month and was using XP 32 before it so I couldn't use more than 4 even if I wanted to. My next upgrade is 2x 4GB. I do eat my own cooking, I just haven't had time to yet personally.

The RAM manufacturer matters too, a lot potentially. I would type in H61M-S2P RAM in google and find the link going to "www.crucial.com" and their website will show you a variety of RAM sticks they make that are compatible with your board and guaranteed to work in it. Their RAM is made by the Micron company and sold under their own brand name (Crucial) and they do more quality testing than almost all other RAM sellers and their standards for what passes and fails is stricter than most other companies too. This translates into better performance with fewer problems for you.

Corsair 60GB SSD - I would go for a 128 if I were going to get one, that way I could install most all the programs I want to install directly onto the SSD and not just the OS. If you have only a 60 GB SSD there is some potential there that you will go beyond that with just programs and have to install programs on the slower drive.

The likelihood of that is greatly reduced with a 128 GB instead of a 60, but the cost is considerably more so you do pay for that privelege.

GTS 450 - Not a good gamer card. I wouldn't even use it for moderate gaming. I would highly recommend if you want to do any gaming that you consider a 6670 or a 6770 instead of this. For movies too.

Wireless card - no PCIE, the video card needs that space.

21.5" monitor - Things are going towards LEDs, I would get a LED monitor if it were me. The cost should be pretty close to similar sized full LCDs. Also, the brand matters. Viewsonic is a good brand.

Xigmatek Asgard - If you are going for a lowest of the low end case, it should be fine. Your internals aren't super heat generating or anything so perhaps it would be fine. You can get this thing for very nearly just the cost of shipping and it isn't because it is worth its weight in gold.

If that is what you are aiming for, then it is fine, but it is important to note that the PSU is TOP mount not bottom. This is an old architecture that puts greatly increased demands on the PSU for pulling all the heat in the computer into itself and pushing it out the back of the case.

I would highly suggest you look for some bargain basement case that has a bottom mount PSU if you can. This greatly increases PSU longevity.

500w Xigmatek PSU - I would avoid it. Get an Antec 520w or XFX 550w instead. These are solid brands that people trust. People never suggest to others around here to get Xigmatec brand PSUs because they aren't known in the PSU space.

They may have decent cases and good cooling parts, but that doesn't mean they make good PSUs.

Stick with a brand that is known to have really good PSUs like the two I mentioned.


I see. So the stock cooler will be enough and won't make too much noise? If so then great, I'll save 20£ that will be going for more RAM.
How's 8 GB Corsair 1600 MHZ Vengeance 2x4?
And there will be no other HDD. It will be just the 60 GB SSD. Tbh right now I'm not using more than 40gb including programs, files, music, etc and it's fine.
How do I know whether a PSU is top or bottom mount?

And which websites would you suggest to buy a PC from?
Also, does newegg assemble the PC? Because usually I see people buying separate parts.

Also, thanks for the help.
December 22, 2011 10:06:19 PM

g-unit1111 said:
Quote:
I don't know why you would want an aftermarket CPU cooler. I can't imagine the 2100 failing with a stock fan and a good cooling setup for the whole computer.


I have my i3-2120 running with a Hyper 212 and it's been great so far. I always tend to prefer good aftermarket coolers over the stock ones Intel and AMD include.

Quote:
500w Xigmatek PSU - I would avoid it. Get an Antec 520w or XFX 550w instead. These are solid brands that people trust. People never suggest to others around here to get Xigmatec brand PSUs because they aren't known in the PSU space.

They may have decent cases and good cooling parts, but that doesn't mean they make good PSUs.

Stick with a brand that is known to have really good PSUs like the two I mentioned.


I completely agree here. If a PSU isn't certified and rated - don't buy it!!! Antec, XFX, Corsair, Cooler Master all make great PSUs that won't cost an arm and a leg - you want to avoid brands like Xigmatek, Ultra, Diablotek, Coolmax, and so on - they're not well rated or respected among PSU makers. In fact you should probably read this about choosing a good PSU: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-psu-re...

Quote:
GTS 450 - Not a good gamer card. I wouldn't even use it for moderate gaming. I would highly recommend if you want to do any gaming that you consider a 6670 or a 6770 instead of this. For movies too.


Actually I'd recommend the 6790 since you can use native HDMI with the card - and it's won Tom's "Best GPUs for the money" like 5 months in a row now.

Quote:
The RAM manufacturer matters too, a lot potentially. I would type in H61M-S2P RAM in google and find the link going to "www.crucial.com" and their website will show you a variety of RAM sticks they make that are compatible with your board and guaranteed to work in it. Their RAM is made by the Micron company and sold under their own brand name (Crucial) and they do more quality testing than almost all other RAM sellers and their standards for what passes and fails is stricter than most other companies too. This translates into better performance with fewer problems for you.


The best thing to do is to check the motherboard manufacturer's website and see what they recommend - but I agree that RAM is key, but if you get the wrong RAM it could mean bad things down the road (and I know from experience).

Quote:
Not looking to upgrade any hardware so I didn't go for a good motherboard.


That is certainly not the best way to go about picking computer parts. You want to get the best computer parts you can for the money and not have to worry about upgrading later on. The H61 is not bad, but limited expansion means that when the time comes to upgrade, you don't want to have to replace your whole motherboard, CPU, RAM, and so on. It's better to pick parts that will allow you to maintain your system in the long run with minimum upgrades and the fewest headaches possible. Choosing a motherboard based on that logic will create lots of frustration in the long run.

Quote:
Corsair 60 GB Force3 SSD Sata III 6.0 Gb/s (SSD)


Go with the Crucial M4 over the Force 3 - there seems to be a lot of problems with these drives from what I've been reading.


I see, but would the 2100 suffice with the stock cooler and not overheat? And would the stock cooler not make much noise?
Thanks for the ram tip.
I thought of going with the 6790 mostly because of the 256 memory bit rate but I was told that clock rates were more important for gaming and therefore to go with the 6770.


December 22, 2011 10:38:40 PM

Quote:
I see, but would the 2100 suffice with the stock cooler and not overheat? And would the stock cooler not make much noise?


It could but it's just my general preference that I like to get a better stock cooler than what Intel and AMD include just to be on the safe side - a cooler CPU will prolong its' longevity.

Quote:
I thought of going with the 6790 mostly because of the 256 memory bit rate but I was told that clock rates were more important for gaming and therefore to go with the 6770.


The 6770 is the exact same GPU as last year's 5770 was. The 6790 is a more current version that's been tweaked for better performance. It's only a $10 difference between the two.

Quote:
How's 8 GB Corsair 1600 MHZ Vengeance 2x4?


Corsair is an excellent RAM maker. Them, G.Skill, and Crucial are pretty much the only RAM manufacturers I buy from anymore.

Quote:
How do I know whether a PSU is top or bottom mount?


Well if you look at the specs on Newegg it will tell you where the mount is. Most cases are bottom-mount since about 2009 so it you should be fine.

Quote:
And which websites would you suggest to buy a PC from?
Also, does newegg assemble the PC? Because usually I see people buying separate parts.


Well I wouldn't recommend sites like Cyberpower or IBUYPOWER - they generally tend to lack in the support department. The thing with building your PC is that you're generally on your own for technical support, it's up to the manufacturers to honor their warranties should something go wrong, but they're generally pretty good about it.
December 22, 2011 11:25:45 PM

I think biggest thing you should worry about noise is ur case.
Check if you can get your hands on Fractal Design Define R3 - hands down one of the best silent cases
December 23, 2011 8:00:23 AM

This case

Xigmatek ASGARD II B/S CPC-T45UD-U01 Black / Silver 0.8 mm SECC / Aluminum and Aluminum Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

Is indeed a top mount PSU.

I don't know if that is exactly the one in question, but this other Asgard

Xigmatek ASGARD II B/O CPC-T45UE-U01 Black / Orange 0.8 mm SECC / Aluminum and Aluminum Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

is also a top mount case. It is indeed entirely possible the whole line includes only top mount cases.

In order to know if it is a top mount case you can look at the Details Tab in Newegg and there is an entry for "Power Supply Mounted" near the top and it will say right there. You can alternatively look at the pictures (what I do) and just flip right to the back view and look where the big round'ish hole is in the back. There will only be one of them and it will be clearly on the top or the bottom.

As for CPU coolers, they work just fine with an adequate complete cooling system. I have only ever used stock coolers and never had any problems with them. Even with stock coolers its extremely likely the CPU fan won't be the loudest thing in the case.

For people made out of money there is no reason not to go liquid cool a non overclocked cpu, but it is hardly necessary and indeed hard to justify the added expense IMHO.

If the entire cooling setup is well done, then the CPU will almost always last for the life of the computer (~4/5 years maybe) without any problems and after that it won't matter anymore anyway.

RAM - I already mentioned a good way to get RAM regardless of what motherboard it is for, stick with that.

Newegg will not build the computer for you, you will have to do it yourself or go with one of the websites geared toward that. I will do it myself if you live in/around DC and you can wait till January.
December 23, 2011 9:22:35 PM

Well guys, I've taken all your advice into consideration and this is what I've got so far.
I didn't, however, check the Ram with the motherboard like Raiddinn suggested because I couldn't find the right page.
I also couldn't check out the Fractal Design Refine R3 because it wasn't available at ebuyer.com, the website I'm using now.
Is everything compatible? Are there any problems with any of the parts I picked? Any advice / criticism?

Asus P8H61-M LE/USB3 Intel H61 Socket 1155 8 Channel HD Audio mATX Motherboard---------------------------£48.99
OCZ 60GB Agility 3 SSD - 2.5" SATA-III - Read 525MB/s Write 475MB/s 80,000 IOPS-------------------------------£77.45
Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium w/SP1 - Licence and media - 1 PC - OEM - DVD - 64-bit - English---------£70.73
Intel Core i3 2100 3.10GHz Socket 1155 3MB L3 Cache Retail Boxed Processor-------------------------------------£90.18
Sapphire HD 6790 1GB GDDR5 DVI HDMI DisplayPort PCI-E Graphics Card-------------------------------------------£104.84
OCZ ZT Series 550W Modular PSU(certified and rated)-------------------------------------------------------------------£66.38
Sony Optiarc DDU1681S 18x DVD-ROM SATA Optical Drive - OEM Black-----------------------------------------------£11.99
Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro rev 2 Socket 775, 1156, 1155, 1366, AM2, AM3 Heatpipe CPU Cooler-------------£15.98
Crucial 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 Ballistix Sport Memory Kit CL10 1.5V -------------------------------------------------------£24.99
ACER V223HQVb 21.5'' LCD VGA Monitor------------------------------------------------------------------------------------£79.92
Trust MiLa 2.0 Speaker Set - PC multimedia speakers - 5 Watt--------------------------------------------------------£7.59
Xenta Black Wired 3 Button Optical Scroll Mouse - USB------------------------------------------------------------------£2.99
Xenta Black Full Size Keyboard------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------£2.99
Casecom 6788 All Black Case (bottom mount)-----------------------------------------------------------------------------£29.99
Antec 120mm TrueQuiet Fan---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------£7.65
Cisco Linksys Wireless-N Dual-Band PCI Adapter--------------------------------------------------------------------------£36.99

Total - 679.65£

I'm using ebuyer and I've decided to put the computer together myself.
Also, what is IOPS in the SSD?
And what is the difference between H61 Mobo and H61 express?
December 23, 2011 10:02:45 PM

Raiddinn said:
http://www.crucial.com/upgrade/ASUS-memory/ASUS+Motherb...

It got bumped to the second entry page 2 on my search results. A rarity when I do this.


Yes, I was on that website but I didn't think that was the one because I couldn't find the part where it suggested which ram is best.
Thanks for doing it, if it's a rarity ^_^
December 23, 2011 10:19:13 PM

You just have to hit the button that says "Show all memory" and then scroll down till you see what you are looking for. That probably means "2x 4GB" for people with a 64 bit OS and "2x 2GB" for anyone with a 32 bit OS.

Then you write down part numbers and then you search the internet to see what is the right price and other specs you want.
December 23, 2011 10:31:42 PM

Raiddinn said:
You just have to hit the button that says "Show all memory" and then scroll down till you see what you are looking for. That probably means "2x 4GB" for people with a 64 bit OS and "2x 2GB" for anyone with a 32 bit OS.

Then you write down part numbers and then you search the internet to see what is the right price and other specs you want.


I see, thanks for explaining.
Well it appears to be the Crucial Ballistix Ram. Guess I'll go with the 2x4 on that, then. And good, it's 1600 MHz and less than 25£, cheaper than the G skill 1333 MHz by 5£.
Should I also do the same for the SSD? Because the SSDs recommended with this motherboard that have 64 GBs have 95 m/s write speed and are 25£ more expensive...
Also, how important is it that a PSU is modular? Is all the less cabling really significant for the airflow? Should I get a modular PSU?
December 24, 2011 12:45:25 AM

Quote:
Is everything compatible? Are there any problems with any of the parts I picked? Any advice / criticism?


Compatible yes but there's a few things I would suggest:

Quote:
Xenta Black Wired 3 Button Optical Scroll Mouse - USB------------------------------------------------------------------£2.99
Xenta Black Full Size Keyboard------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------£2.99


I'm not sure about this brand - if you can get a cheap Logitech wireless keyboard / mouse combo - the MK260 is a good one and can be had for like $25 (US).

Quote:
Trust MiLa 2.0 Speaker Set - PC multimedia speakers - 5 Watt--------------------------------------------------------£7.59


Anything less than 10.00 for speakers are going to be like tin can speakers - these will be fine for a while but if you're any sort of music fan you might want to invest in something better down the road.

Quote:
Casecom 6788 All Black Case (bottom mount)-----------------------------------------------------------------------------£29.99
2x Antec 120mm TrueQuiet Fan-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------£15.29 (for both)


Not sure what kind of case this is, but you probably don't need the extra fans - most cases include plenty to begin with.

Quote:
OCZ 60GB Agility 3 SSD - 2.5" SATA-III - Read 525MB/s Write 475MB/s 80,000 IOPS-------------------------------£77.45


For the price you should probably go with the Crucial M4 over the Agility 3 - OCZ hasn't quite perfected these drives and there seem to be a lot of issues with them.

Quote:
OCZ ZT Series 550W Modular PSU(certified and rated)-------------------------------------------------------------------£66.38


For the price the Corsair Builder Series would probably be a safer bet.
December 24, 2011 1:19:34 AM

g-unit1111 said:
Quote:
Is everything compatible? Are there any problems with any of the parts I picked? Any advice / criticism?


Compatible yes but there's a few things I would suggest:

Quote:
Xenta Black Wired 3 Button Optical Scroll Mouse - USB------------------------------------------------------------------£2.99
Xenta Black Full Size Keyboard------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------£2.99


I'm not sure about this brand - if you can get a cheap Logitech wireless keyboard / mouse combo - the MK260 is a good one and can be had for like $25 (US).

Quote:
Trust MiLa 2.0 Speaker Set - PC multimedia speakers - 5 Watt--------------------------------------------------------£7.59


Anything less than 10.00 for speakers are going to be like tin can speakers - these will be fine for a while but if you're any sort of music fan you might want to invest in something better down the road.

Quote:
Casecom 6788 All Black Case (bottom mount)-----------------------------------------------------------------------------£29.99
2x Antec 120mm TrueQuiet Fan-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------£15.29 (for both)


Not sure what kind of case this is, but you probably don't need the extra fans - most cases include plenty to begin with.

Quote:
OCZ 60GB Agility 3 SSD - 2.5" SATA-III - Read 525MB/s Write 475MB/s 80,000 IOPS-------------------------------£77.45


For the price you should probably go with the Crucial M4 over the Agility 3 - OCZ hasn't quite perfected these drives and there seem to be a lot of issues with them.

Quote:
OCZ ZT Series 550W Modular PSU(certified and rated)-------------------------------------------------------------------£66.38


For the price the Corsair Builder Series would probably be a safer bet.


Hmm no Corsair Builder Series available it seems.. only CX, HX and Professional series.
How much wattage would I need anyway? Is 550 enough or too much?

It's this case http://www.ebuyer.com/172779-casecom-6788-all-black-cas...

Is the Crucial M4 worth it with only 95 m/s write speed and 415 m/s read? I can't find any problems with the OCZ SSD on google or youtube, what issues do you mean?
And thanks for the tips on the mouse, keyboard and speakers but I'm not really looking for anything much with them, just need them to work. And the speakers, I just need them to produce sound, not looking for anything much ^_^

Also I just noticed something. On the motherboard's specs it says "2 x DIMM, Max. 16GB, DDR3 1333/1066 Hz Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory". Does this mean that 8 GB 1600 MHz is incompatible?
And would there be enough PCi and PCI-e ports for everything? Because it says "1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 2 x PCIe 2.0 x1 1 x PCI"
Well, I'll get rid of 1 of the 2 separate fans I'm buying then, I'd rather be safe :) 
December 24, 2011 1:47:59 AM

it seems like that case is not a good choice.
December 24, 2011 3:25:47 AM

Quote:
Hmm no Corsair Builder Series available it seems.. only CX, HX and Professional series.
How much wattage would I need anyway? Is 550 enough or too much?


The CX is the Builder Series, the GS is the gamer series, the HX is the professional series, and the TX is the enthusiast series. 500 - 600 should be plenty.

Quote:
Is the Crucial M4 worth it with only 95 m/s write speed and 415 m/s read? I can't find any problems with the OCZ SSD on google or youtube, what issues do you mean?


The M4 is one of the best SSDs on the market. Don't rely on what you read on Google or Youtube for product reviews and issues, a good rule of thumb when you purchase any computer hardware is to browse the manufacturer's technical support page for common errors and issues, that way you know what you're getting into when you purchase said product.

Quote:
And thanks for the tips on the mouse, keyboard and speakers but I'm not really looking for anything much with them, just need them to work. And the speakers, I just need them to produce sound, not looking for anything much ^_^


No problem, I just don't like purchasing inadequate hardware I always get a red flag when I see something that inexpensive. Stuff like that isn't critical to a build but for stuff that is, I do tend to persuade people from purchasing the cheapest stuff on the market.

Quote:
Also I just noticed something. On the motherboard's specs it says "2 x DIMM, Max. 16GB, DDR3 1333/1066 Hz Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory". Does this mean that 8 GB 1600 MHz is incompatible?
And would there be enough PCi and PCI-e ports for everything? Because it says "1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 2 x PCIe 2.0 x1 1 x PCI"


The 8GB will work fine - the H61 is a dual channel system just like the H67, P67, and Z68 are. Having only 2 x DIMM slots only means that there's 2 slots instead of the typical 4. You can have the 8GB - you just won't be able to upgrade to anything else later on should you need it. P67 allows 16GB max and Z68 allows up to 32GB max. The speeds - you will need 1333 as opposed to the 1600, but that won't make much of a difference since your motherboard will default to the slowest speeds and timings it can handle.
December 24, 2011 8:11:15 AM

megas said:
I see, thanks for explaining.
Well it appears to be the Crucial Ballistix Ram. Guess I'll go with the 2x4 on that, then. And good, it's 1600 MHz and less than 25£, cheaper than the G skill 1333 MHz by 5£.
Should I also do the same for the SSD? Because the SSDs recommended with this motherboard that have 64 GBs have 95 m/s write speed and are 25£ more expensive...
Also, how important is it that a PSU is modular? Is all the less cabling really significant for the airflow? Should I get a modular PSU?


You certainly could do the same with SSDs, but there are much less problems with SSDs being imcompatible with boards than with RAM being incompatible with boards.

Also, the RAM has been around for a long time and Micron has developed a winning reputation during it.

The SSDs haven't been around long enough for clear winner companies to emerge yet.

I wouldn't advise picking an SSD this way, but if you do it should still work.
December 24, 2011 6:00:17 PM

g-unit1111 said:
Quote:
Hmm no Corsair Builder Series available it seems.. only CX, HX and Professional series.
How much wattage would I need anyway? Is 550 enough or too much?


The CX is the Builder Series, the GS is the gamer series, the HX is the professional series, and the TX is the enthusiast series. 500 - 600 should be plenty.

Quote:
Is the Crucial M4 worth it with only 95 m/s write speed and 415 m/s read? I can't find any problems with the OCZ SSD on google or youtube, what issues do you mean?


The M4 is one of the best SSDs on the market. Don't rely on what you read on Google or Youtube for product reviews and issues, a good rule of thumb when you purchase any computer hardware is to browse the manufacturer's technical support page for common errors and issues, that way you know what you're getting into when you purchase said product.

Quote:
And thanks for the tips on the mouse, keyboard and speakers but I'm not really looking for anything much with them, just need them to work. And the speakers, I just need them to produce sound, not looking for anything much ^_^


No problem, I just don't like purchasing inadequate hardware I always get a red flag when I see something that inexpensive. Stuff like that isn't critical to a build but for stuff that is, I do tend to persuade people from purchasing the cheapest stuff on the market.

Quote:
Also I just noticed something. On the motherboard's specs it says "2 x DIMM, Max. 16GB, DDR3 1333/1066 Hz Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory". Does this mean that 8 GB 1600 MHz is incompatible?
And would there be enough PCi and PCI-e ports for everything? Because it says "1 x PCIe 2.0 x16 2 x PCIe 2.0 x1 1 x PCI"


The 8GB will work fine - the H61 is a dual channel system just like the H67, P67, and Z68 are. Having only 2 x DIMM slots only means that there's 2 slots instead of the typical 4. You can have the 8GB - you just won't be able to upgrade to anything else later on should you need it. P67 allows 16GB max and Z68 allows up to 32GB max. The speeds - you will need 1333 as opposed to the 1600, but that won't make much of a difference since your motherboard will default to the slowest speeds and timings it can handle.


Ah right, my bad. Well, there's the Corsair 600W CX Series V2 PSU - 6x SATA 2x PCI-E. Although I don't think I need 600W, so would it be advisable to have more watts than needed? Plus I'm sort of inclined towards a modular PSU.
About the ram, so the mobo will default to 1333 anyways? So should I just save up a bit and get the 8GB 1333 ram instead of 1600?

@madchemist83 - Why is this case not a good choice?

Also I think I'll stick to the SSD I picked, although thanks for all the help on that part.
December 24, 2011 9:20:35 PM

Idk cause it's unknown case. Something like antec 300 would be better. If you can get your hands on fractal design go for it
December 25, 2011 10:29:42 PM

I'm already spending a bit more than I hoped for so I'm not going to go with a better case.
But I have a question about the motherboard I've picked, the Asus P8H61-M LE/USB3 Intel H61 Socket 1155 8 Channel HD Audio mATX Motherboard.
It says it supports DirectX 10.1, but what about DirectX 11? Because the GPU I picked supports DirectX 11 so would I only be able to use up to 10.1?
Also, trying to cut back a bit on the money so the mobo I've picked is 48.99£ but would it be ok to go for any of these motherboards instead?:
http://www.ebuyer.com/320145-msi-h61m-p25-b3-socket-115...
http://www.ebuyer.com/320276-ex-display-biostar-h61mgc-...
http://www.ebuyer.com/279549-asrock-h61m-vs-socket-1155...
http://www.ebuyer.com/266605-asus-p8h61-m-le-usb3-intel...

Would they all still be compatible? And what would I be losing on if I chose each of those motherboards instead of the one I've picked?
December 26, 2011 2:13:41 AM

Also, so the mobo will default the ram to 1333 anyways? So should I just get the 8GB 1333 ram instead of 1600 to save a bit of money?
December 26, 2011 12:29:04 PM

Some nice 1333 ram with 1.35v is really good IMHO. If it is ever interesting later to OC RAM the 1.35 has a lot of room to go upwards.

As for the DirectX stuff, I have never heard of a computer with Windows 7 and a DX11 video card that wasn't able to use DX11 because of a motherboard limitation. It probably says DX10 because it was invented when DX11 wasn't invented yet and the description wasn't ever updated.

If you want to search around the internet for "DX 11 doesn't work with my motherboard" or something you can, but I wouldn't spend too much time on this.

As for changing motherboards, I didn't comb through the stats on the boards, but I trust Asus and ASRock more than MSI and BIOSTAR. That would be the only one I would consider downgrading to out of the 3 options you presented. If you are OK with the ASRock stats, then you might consider going down to it. I wouldn't go for the rest, though.

Consider seriously whether you really want to save the money, though. It is only a couple pounds difference.

I have an Asus myself and barring any serious failures on their part I intend to continue using them without seriously considering other brands, so I am kinda biased.
December 26, 2011 2:16:27 PM

Raiddinn said:
Some nice 1333 ram with 1.35v is really good IMHO. If it is ever interesting later to OC RAM the 1.35 has a lot of room to go upwards.

As for the DirectX stuff, I have never heard of a computer with Windows 7 and a DX11 video card that wasn't able to use DX11 because of a motherboard limitation. It probably says DX10 because it was invented when DX11 wasn't invented yet and the description wasn't ever updated.

If you want to search around the internet for "DX 11 doesn't work with my motherboard" or something you can, but I wouldn't spend too much time on this.

As for changing motherboards, I didn't comb through the stats on the boards, but I trust Asus and ASRock more than MSI and BIOSTAR. That would be the only one I would consider downgrading to out of the 3 options you presented. If you are OK with the ASRock stats, then you might consider going down to it. I wouldn't go for the rest, though.

Consider seriously whether you really want to save the money, though. It is only a couple pounds difference.

I have an Asus myself and barring any serious failures on their part I intend to continue using them without seriously considering other brands, so I am kinda biased.


Ok thanks, will change the ram.
And I'm glad, I was really worried about the direct x thing.
Well you're right it's only a few pounds, not worth changing to Asrock I guess.
I'm not on my main pc right now but I will post my complete, final list of parts later today.
December 26, 2011 6:53:03 PM

Raiddinn said:
Some nice 1333 ram with 1.35v is really good IMHO. If it is ever interesting later to OC RAM the 1.35 has a lot of room to go upwards.

As for the DirectX stuff, I have never heard of a computer with Windows 7 and a DX11 video card that wasn't able to use DX11 because of a motherboard limitation. It probably says DX10 because it was invented when DX11 wasn't invented yet and the description wasn't ever updated.

If you want to search around the internet for "DX 11 doesn't work with my motherboard" or something you can, but I wouldn't spend too much time on this.

As for changing motherboards, I didn't comb through the stats on the boards, but I trust Asus and ASRock more than MSI and BIOSTAR. That would be the only one I would consider downgrading to out of the 3 options you presented. If you are OK with the ASRock stats, then you might consider going down to it. I wouldn't go for the rest, though.

Consider seriously whether you really want to save the money, though. It is only a couple pounds difference.

I have an Asus myself and barring any serious failures on their part I intend to continue using them without seriously considering other brands, so I am kinda biased.


Well, this is weird. There isn't 1.35v Ballistix 8 gb ram 1333 mhz on ebuyer, but there is 1.5v. But for some reason, it's 8£ more expensive than the 1600.
Why?
Also, what is the difference between 1.35v and 1.5v?
Here are the 2 products so you can look at them if you need
http://www.ebuyer.com/275065-crucial-ballistix-sport-8g...

http://www.ebuyer.com/275166-crucial-ballistix-sport-8g...
December 26, 2011 7:21:02 PM

The difference between 1.35 and 1.5v isn't very much from most people's perspectives, but it is pretty much a straight upgrade.

It can potentially OC better and stock it will reduce power bills by some small amount.

As near as I can tell there is no drawback to using 1.35v if the price is the same as 1.5v and the motherboard supports it.

The speed of RAM is a pretty complicated thing. Generally, the lower the CL the better, but a 1600 with a higher CL can potentially be faster than a 1333 with a lower CL because the 1333/1600 portion plays a lot into the total speed.

That is if you can even have 1600 RAM.

You should be able to insert any 1600 RAM on the board's QVL in and it will automatically reduce itself to 1333, but some people have problems doing this. I would just buy 1333 directly if it were me rather than buying 1600 and hoping it reduces itself properly to 1333.

The cost savings is pretty significant for what reason I don't know, it could just be regular supply/demand.

Anyway, if I was going to buy something not on the QVL (something I would rate as a last resort) I would stick with 1333 so the board doesn't have to adjust anything by itself.

I would rather get a 1600 on the QVL than a 1333 not on it, though.
December 26, 2011 8:29:29 PM

I see, so CL is something that makes an impact on the price as well...
What would happen if I used 1600 MHZ ram on my motherboard and it didn't adjust by itself? Would the ram not work and would I need to underclock it on the bios?
Also, could you be clearer on which you were talking about? So the 1.35v can OC better and reduce power bills? Or is that the 1.5v?
But because it's less voltage, does that mean it is getting less power and the performance isn't as good?
December 26, 2011 8:44:44 PM

If you used 1600 RAM and it didn't adjust itself the possibility exists that you might be able to reduce it yourself in the BIOS, yes. It could also create problems that keep you from ever getting to the BIOS. It shouldn't, but I can't guarantee it won't.

The 1.35v just plain uses less power than the 1.5v does.

RAM chip specifications say that a RAM chip has to work at a power level (as in not blow up kind of working) up to some number like 1.9782v or something like that. You can look this number up easily if it is important, but it isn't really. Just a random factoid.

The difference between 1.35v and that number is greater than the difference between 1.5v and that number. That means 1.35v has more room to "go up" than 1.5 does.

The 1.35v is no worse than the 1.5v. Manufacturing techniques constantly evolve and the 1.35v is able to do the exact same thing with 10% less power. That is just the advantage of newer technology.

This is the same reason that a HD 4870 uses more power than a HD 6870 even though the latter is 2 generations newer and is more powerful. The manufacturing techniques used 2 generations ago use more power for less performance than today's stuff.

The RAM is just the same thing as applied to RAM instead of video cards.
December 26, 2011 9:52:02 PM

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Also, what is the difference between Kit and module ram?
And what is SDRam? I googled this but I didn't understand it.
December 26, 2011 10:03:37 PM

Kit usually means there are 2 or more sticks that add up to a certain total.

An 8GB kit could include 2 sticks of 4 GB each or 4 sticks of 2 GB each or even 8 sticks of 1 GB each.

A module just means 1 stick. A kit by necessity includes multiple modules.

You don't really need to worry about what SDRAM means IMHO.

All RAM that is built for computers is SDRAM, it just defines how the RAM interfaces with the computer that is really all. It is highly technical and most people don't need to really understand computers at that level.

If you really want to know, I guess I can try to explain it tomorrow sometime. It is late in Germany now and I am going to bed. I will check back tomorrow and see if you are still interested.
December 26, 2011 10:28:27 PM

Ah right I see.
Well, knowing this has made my choices even harder.
Now I'm in need to replace the ballistix ram I'd selected using your motherboard tip with something with similar price (29.99£)
I've got 4 types of ram that are 1333 MHz, Non-ECC, 1.5v. Couldn't get 1.35v, lowest available is 1.5v.
Which would you advise me to pick?
http://www.ebuyer.com/172949-kingston-8gb-2x4gb-ddr3-13...

http://www.ebuyer.com/282063-8gb-1333mhz-ddr3-non-ecc-c...

http://www.ebuyer.com/248449-kingston-8gb-2x4gb-ddr3-13...

http://www.ebuyer.com/240498-g-skill-8gb-2x4gb-ddr3-133...

And sure, if you don't mind explaining then I'd like to know about it tomorrow.
Again, thanks for your help man.
December 27, 2011 2:17:28 PM

There is not very much difference between any of those things and any of the others.

If all of them were on the motherboard's QVL, then some people might be inclined to choose based on a "coolness" factor (Ripjaws gets that a lot).

My question is, if you did indeed type in your motherboard and go to the crucial website and pick some 1333 ram off the list, why do you need to choose something else? Is it not available at the website you are buying parts from?

As for the RAM types

RAM = Random Access Memory. This means that you can access any data you want that is stored in the RAM at any time.

SRAM = Static RAM. This means that there is something in the RAM that helps it to hold values over long periods of time as long as power continues to be supplied to the RAM. The RAM will forget what it had if it loses power.

DRAM = Dynamic RAM. This RAM has nothing inside it to keep old data fresh constantly. The data needs to be read out and written back in the same place periodically in order for the RAM not to forget what is in that memory space.

SDRAM = Synchronous DRAM. This means that the writes in and reads out are dependent on the speed of the "bus" which is basically the pathway between the RAM and the processor. Faster motherboards can use the same ram in a faster way.

DDR SDRAM = Double Data Rate SDRAM. Older RAM had to have separate write requests and read requests, with this technology the processor can ask for both a read and a write in the same single request, essentially doubling the RAM speed.

DDR2 SDRAM = Basically, this enables 4 requests in the same message, essentially double of the DDR which is itself double of regular SDRAM for essentially 4x performance over SDRAM.

DDR3 SDRAM = Basically, the technology in these things allows 2x the performance of DDR2 or 8x the performance of regular SDRAM.

Anyway, none of these types is forward or backward compatible with other types. Every kind works very differently from the kind before it and after it so a DDR2 stick will never work in a DDR3 motherboard or vice versa.

Those are the only two kinds you are likely to run into in 2011/2012. SRAM, DRAM, SDRAM, and DDR(1) SDRAM have all been phased out and DDR2 SDRAM is for the most part phased out too.

DDR4 SDRAM is coming soon'ish that will eventually cause DDR3 RAM to also be phased out.

Anyway, its hard to find RAM that doesn't have DDR3 written on it so that is really all you need to know for the most part about that. The speed of the "bus" is where it says 1333, 1600, etc on the RAM. Because SDRAM (which DDR3 is based on) becomes faster when used on a faster bus speed, 1600 RAM is better than 1333 RAM if you can get it to work like it is supposed to and your motherboard supports 1600 RAM.

The same is also true for 1866 RAM compared to 1600 RAM and so on.

December 27, 2011 3:42:54 PM

Raiddinn said:
There is not very much difference between any of those things and any of the others.

If all of them were on the motherboard's QVL, then some people might be inclined to choose based on a "coolness" factor (Ripjaws gets that a lot).

My question is, if you did indeed type in your motherboard and go to the crucial website and pick some 1333 ram off the list, why do you need to choose something else? Is it not available at the website you are buying parts from?

As for the RAM types

RAM = Random Access Memory. This means that you can access any data you want that is stored in the RAM at any time.

SRAM = Static RAM. This means that there is something in the RAM that helps it to hold values over long periods of time as long as power continues to be supplied to the RAM. The RAM will forget what it had if it loses power.

DRAM = Dynamic RAM. This RAM has nothing inside it to keep old data fresh constantly. The data needs to be read out and written back in the same place periodically in order for the RAM not to forget what is in that memory space.

SDRAM = Synchronous DRAM. This means that the writes in and reads out are dependent on the speed of the "bus" which is basically the pathway between the RAM and the processor. Faster motherboards can use the same ram in a faster way.

DDR SDRAM = Double Data Rate SDRAM. Older RAM had to have separate write requests and read requests, with this technology the processor can ask for both a read and a write in the same single request, essentially doubling the RAM speed.

DDR2 SDRAM = Basically, this enables 4 requests in the same message, essentially double of the DDR which is itself double of regular SDRAM for essentially 4x performance over SDRAM.

DDR3 SDRAM = Basically, the technology in these things allows 2x the performance of DDR2 or 8x the performance of regular SDRAM.

Anyway, none of these types is forward or backward compatible with other types. Every kind works very differently from the kind before it and after it so a DDR2 stick will never work in a DDR3 motherboard or vice versa.

Those are the only two kinds you are likely to run into in 2011/2012. SRAM, DRAM, SDRAM, and DDR(1) SDRAM have all been phased out and DDR2 SDRAM is for the most part phased out too.

DDR4 SDRAM is coming soon'ish that will eventually cause DDR3 RAM to also be phased out.

Anyway, its hard to find RAM that doesn't have DDR3 written on it so that is really all you need to know for the most part about that. The speed of the "bus" is where it says 1333, 1600, etc on the RAM. Because SDRAM (which DDR3 is based on) becomes faster when used on a faster bus speed, 1600 RAM is better than 1333 RAM if you can get it to work like it is supposed to and your motherboard supports 1600 RAM.

The same is also true for 1866 RAM compared to 1600 RAM and so on.


Ah I understand now, thanks for explaining.
Well, I picked something else because the 1333 crucial ballistix is more expensive than the 1600 and I'm already over budget so I was trying to replace the ballistix 1600 ram that I picked with something of similar price. Not only is it 10£+, but it's also out of stock now.
I'll just go with the ripjaws.
Well, I think I've selected everything. Thank you a lot, I've learned loads and I think I've picked really good parts for my build.
December 27, 2011 3:58:38 PM

I hope everything works out for you then. GL with the build.
!