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Apache + router + dns + websie + n00b

Last response: in Networking
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May 26, 2005 6:51:46 PM

ok, I want, just for laughs, set up a webpage from my pc.

I did a little looking around and heard about apache and no-ip.com

Im a complete noob, and need someone to tell me what to do!

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Welcome to my Shed of Pleasure
May 27, 2005 1:06:58 PM

dynamicdns.com also.. costs money though.

I can't host my own website from my computer because my stupid ISP blocks it.. they say I have to use their free web hosting.
I can't even have my own FTP server because they have that shutdown too.
May 28, 2005 12:03:36 PM

I found IIS nice and easy when I set up my web site, what version of windows are you using?
Related resources
May 28, 2005 1:34:01 PM

XP Pro - I just learnt about that feature about a day ago. Looking into it, thanks.

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Welcome to my Shed of Pleasure
May 28, 2005 8:51:36 PM

Remember to use port forwarding on your router (if you have one). When you are testing the web site you will have to do it from a different net connection. I dont think you can access your own IP address over the internet (at least I couldnt).
May 28, 2005 11:21:15 PM

Ahh - that would be why I couldn't seem to get it to work! I could FTP using my internal LAN ip, but not my WAN. Guess Ill ask someone I know to try. Thanks.

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Welcome to my Shed of Pleasure
May 31, 2005 4:18:36 AM

If you have an old computer laying around that you dont use anymore just slap <A HREF="http://www.clarkconnect.org/webapp/downloads.jsp" target="_new">ClarkConnect</A> on it and you will have a webserv, ftp, email, webmail, and a butt load of other stuff ready to go in about 10min depending on the computer and your clicking speed :)  It even has a easy webconfig that looks similar to most home routers (it could even be your home router). I'm using it on a via epia computer right now at my house for a router, webserv, email serv, etc and it works like a champ. The best part is you dont have to know jack about linux to use it and get the benifits of linux, lol.

<A HREF="http://www.folken.net/myrig.htm" target="_new">My precious...</A>
May 31, 2005 10:18:31 AM

Just out of interest, does anyone know of any free DNS server software? Does windows 2000 server edition come with its own DNS server?
Why cant I set up active directory with windows 2kpro?
May 31, 2005 2:37:34 PM

Windows Servers come with DNS software.. You can't setup DNS on a Win2k Pro because DNS is only used on the Servers.
I'm sure you can find some 3rd party software to install a DNS server on your Win2k Pro station.

Win2k Server comes with it's own DNS setup, takes 10-15 minutes to get setup and tested for your internal network.

Active Directory is the database system for Windows 2000 and 2003 servers.

the command for 2k and 2k3 on the server to promote to a Domain Controller is DCPROMO from the run prompt.
June 1, 2005 10:46:18 PM

Are so this is only for the server editions, damn def cant afford them. My dad used to have a MSDN subscription so he got all the OS's for free, do you reckon they would have given him 2k server or do you think thats unlikly?
June 2, 2005 4:57:10 AM

Is this Clarkconnect Linux only? Could I install it on a linux box and network it to XP?

<b><font color=blue>Athlon64 3200+ Winchester/MSI Neo4 Platinum SLI/MSI 6800 Ultra/1 GB Kingston HyperX (Dual Channel)/74GB WD Raptor/600Watt Enermax Noisetaker/ Dual Mitsubishi 21 Inch Monitors</b></font color=blue>
June 2, 2005 1:33:40 PM

The server is really only for businesses mainly.. they have small business server which is only a few hundred dollars..

It's designed for companies that make money or are nonprofit.. not just for home use and messing around. It's expensive technology.. a lot more complex than Windows XP which is a home operating system.
June 2, 2005 11:48:58 PM

Ah well, those goes my plans for setting up a domain between my computers.
June 3, 2005 9:37:21 AM

What exactly is the difference between a Workgroup and a Domain? And Jammy, how come you know so much about networking?

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Bow Down (and pray to your God)
June 3, 2005 1:43:08 PM

Workgroups you have to administer each PC.. they're not as secured.. they work independent but can see each other on a network. It's like hooking 2 PCs up at home.

Now a domain.. oh how I wish my idiot boss would understand that we need one.

I have 1200+ computers at work and I'm on a workgroup, meaning I need to administer EACH PC..
With a domain, I can administer all those PCs from the Server (DC = Domain Controller, most likely the Server).
I can create login scripts so when a user logs in, commands run to update software, remove software, make system changes, slap them in the face, etc.

PCs log into a DC/Server on a domain. That machine controls what that PC & user is able to do. You can restrict access, you can make them administrators. A domain gives you more control over all your PCs from 1 computer.

With a domain, you can walk up to any computer (in most cases unless restricted) and log in as yourself. So you could walk up to computer A, log in as Joe with password "whatever" then you could walk up to another computer and log in with that stuff. You don't have to have a local account set up on the PC. It's all stored on the server. If I didn't want you to log in, I could disable your account and you wouldn't be able to log in anymore.

A workgroup each user that wants to log into the PC has to have a user account set up on the PC, or a general one for everyone to log in. With a domain, you create the account once on the Server/DC and they can log into any PC attached to the domain.

A domain is a centralled administer computer network. All PCs are connected to a DC/Server which is basically God of all the computers. You can do anything and everything from the server to the PCs attached.

A workgroup is good if you have a handful of computers, don't really need to share files that much, and all PCs are in the same location. With a domain, you can specify a Network Drive to share everything and you can redirect everyone's.. My Documents folder lets say, to F:\Shared Folder.. now F: would be connecting to the Server, so everyone's files would be on the server, instead of on the local PC.

You can use a workgroup the same way as a domain, but the domain removes the huge amount of administration needed to maintain computers.

If you have 10 computers in a workgroup and you wanted to change people's passwords, you'd have to go to each computer. On a domain, you'd make a simple change and everyone would have to change their password.


Sorry for such a long post.. I'm venting.. I have to deal with 47 locations, 1200+ PCs on a workgroup. It's such a pain.

On the bright side I wrote a nice little batch file, tossed it on a CD with an autorun file.. it pops up with 4 options - Install Standard Programs, Install Standard and Technical programs, Install Technical Programs, or Exit.
By selecting one via an associated number (1-4) it'll go through and silently install the software.. I repackaged all software into an MSI format using Wise Package Studio..

Now if I was on a domain, I'd put this stuff on the server and when the user logs in, I'd have it automatically run at that point and never worry about it. But being in a workgroup, I need to install everything manually on each PC.

BAH.
June 3, 2005 2:22:31 PM

Thanks, that was very informative. So, in your opinion how many computers would be suitable for a workgroup enviroment vs domain?

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Bow Down (and pray to your God)
June 3, 2005 2:46:45 PM

It really depends on how much time you administer to a PC.
Going to a domain is going to be expensive in that you have to buy the Server license.. If you spent all day doing the same thing to each PC, then you'd be better off in a domain..
In reality, the going rate for a domain is around 150-200 PCs administered per Computer Tech.. in a domain, a tech can easily handle well over that limit, but if you count specific problems like Word isn't working, or isolated problems, 200 would be a measuring point.

If you have 20 PCs that don't need to share information, a workgroup would be fine.
In reality, a workgroup administered by 1 tech shouldn't really exceed 8-15 PCs is what I'd say. 15 PCs for 1 person to get to in a day.. say you were removing a virus, could be a pain and making sure everything is updated.

I'd say start looking at a domain when you hit 10-12 PCs in one location, switch to a domain when you get 15-20 PCs. It's hard to say because you have to justify that additional cost of money, which might only be a few hundred dollars. 200-300 dollars.. But then you have to factor in additional CALs (Client access licenses) meaning that you can only have (I want to say it's 10 by default) 10 people connect to your server before you need to purchase additional licenses. More moeny.. if going to a domain will:
1) Improve the data sharing and collaboration of your employees
2) Reduce the amount of downtime due to upgrades, out dated software, etc, significantly.
3) Improve productivity of employees to reduce money lost.

It basically all matters on one thing: ROI - Return on Investment.

If you can make someone's 40 hour week be a 35 hour a week, you're saving some good money per week which can justify that initial cost.
If the company isn't really doing good, don't waste the money.

My company has 1200+ PCs... we need a domain but no one understands it's capabilities and it'd be hell to switch over now. I worked in company with 600 computers, the domain was awesome. They started off with 30 PCs when they put in a domain.

So here's my suggestion:

If you can save more money in 6 months than what the initial costs of purchasing the software and man hours put in, it would be worth it.

I'm sure you've seen the commercial where the CEO pulls in all the high ups and introduces the tech.. the higher ups kind of smirk at the lowly tech guy.. the CEO says "anyone who didn't make more than 120% return this year, back away from the table" - The only guy who didn't move was the tech guy.

Granted, money is always going out in IT, but that's not where IT saves money.. They save money by making employees more productive.

If you can make 10 employees save 100 dollars a week using a domain, then do it. That'll cover your expenses in the first month.

If you can reduce your work time from 40 hours to 20 hours, but it doesn't help the employees, it won't be worth it.

Sorry for the long posts, but it's really almost an art to figure out when to switch from a workgroup to a domain in a small network.

It's a lot figuring out how much money it's going to cost.. when 500 dollars is a lot to a small business, it's tough to make that jump.
June 3, 2005 3:08:40 PM

Good post. Well, I have learnt something today! Thanks.

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Bow Down (and pray to your God)
June 4, 2005 11:55:34 AM

Good post, explained everything very well. Is it possible to set up a domain using third party software? I only have 3 computers but want to try and do it for the experience.
June 4, 2005 12:57:52 PM

Answer my question bitch!

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Bow Down (and pray to your God)
June 4, 2005 7:29:43 PM

I did a temp job in an IT place a couple for a couple of weeks not long ago and it got me interested in domains. We have a pretty complicated network in my house so I have learnt a lot about them because of that.
June 4, 2005 7:30:24 PM

p.s. do you have to refer to me as bitch? :tongue:
June 4, 2005 9:37:19 PM

Of course I do!

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Bow Down (and pray to your God)
June 6, 2005 2:46:53 PM

I'm not aware of any 3rd party software. I know you can download 180 day evals of Microsoft's high end softwares, ex: Server 2k, 2k3, SMS, WRM, etc. Problem is, after 180 days, they're locked down.

I have around 6-7 computers in my apartment and I'm organizing the computers to be a model of what my current work is. That way I can test out what I want to do at work and figure it out without causing problems at work and to work out some kinks.

You can do it with 3 computers. I have 1 server, I'm setting up a 2nd one for replication. I'm going to have a few client computers that I can work on, laptops and desktops.

If you have a spare computer, I'd register and download the Win2k3 evail software and mess with it. You really might want to consider downloading some Ebooks off Kazaa or another program like that.

Now, if you get on your hands on a full blown version.. you'll be able to use it, just don't use it to make money or server the public. I have full blown versions from work that I use for testing, which they say you can get in trouble for, but the Microsoft Rep I talked to said he's rather have me learning their software than another.. just as long as I don't make software without paying for it.
June 6, 2005 11:38:35 PM

180 days is ok, i could set it up on one of my old computers and maybe put it out of the way in another room (so the noise doesnt bother me). Server will run ok on a 1.1Ghz with 512MB ram rite? It would only be serving 2 computers.
June 7, 2005 2:07:33 PM

I have my win2k3 server running an 800MHz/256MB old Compaq Workstation.. runs really good and don't have any problems with it.
You can run Server on almost anything depending on what you're doing for it. If it's authentication, you can use a low end computer. If it's a file server, you'll want something around midgrade or higher. If it's doing something like serving ftp/webpages, you'll want something midrange to good.. servers tend not to do much in processing so they don't have to be powerful.. they just have to be able to handle a lot of requests.. but with 2 computers.. any spare computer you can find will probably do anything you want.
June 7, 2005 7:52:59 PM

Cheers man, I have ordered an evaluation version. Will see how it goes. One last question, does a DNS server have to act as a DHCP server as well? Because DHCP is currently handled by my router and I wont be able to turn that off.
June 7, 2005 10:51:04 PM

If you want to set up a website on an old comp just use a linux distro. Setting up a website on clarkconnect home edition is just as easy if not easier than Windows server.
Clarkconnect isn't something you install on a linux box, it is a complete distro in itself that you install on a computer. Also, you dont have to know jack about linux to install/use it. Install is 10min or less and config is done by a web interface just like a regular home router. Best of all it is free:
<A HREF="http://www.clarkconnect.org/webapp/downloads.jsp" target="_new">http://www.clarkconnect.org/webapp/downloads.jsp&lt;/A>

I know I must sound like I'm a clarkconnect spokesperson by now but I assure you I'm not :)  It is just so damned good and easy to use I love it, lol.

<A HREF="http://www.folken.net/myrig.htm" target="_new">My precious...</A>
June 8, 2005 12:34:05 AM

Im trying to set up a DNS server that will allow me to use differnent user accounts, with different privaliges.
June 8, 2005 3:48:35 AM

Clarkconnect does dns as well and version 3 can actually be a windows domain controller :) 
Diff privs can be done too but that might req changing configs manually depending on how crazy you want to be.

<A HREF="http://www.folken.net/myrig.htm" target="_new">My precious...</A>
June 8, 2005 6:22:14 PM

That might be a small problem. You might consider running DHCP on your DNS server to configure it and just use static reservations for your PC so you actually won't need to worry about DHCP giving out IP addresses or any conflicts.

But here's the easy way.. you'll have set your DNS servers under TCP/IP. That'll point it to your server. It's manual configuration, but it'll work just as good.

DHCP will hand out DNS and WINS information among other things. It's main purpose is to reduce configuration each time, but in your case you should be fine since you're operating a small setup and not a large network.
!