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What's the Difference ....... ?

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February 17, 2001 6:48:37 PM

Between the SoundBlaster Live & SoundBlaster Live "Value" ?

Are these good sound cards ?

All I need is a decent soundcard for 2 speakers ..... Not all that digital bull with a 5+ speaker setup .

More about : difference

February 17, 2001 6:55:31 PM

I think the only difference in the Soundblater Live! packages is the bundled software. The card is exactly the same.
Anonymous
February 17, 2001 7:36:26 PM

Yeah, they're bolth based on the same chip (emu10k1).
Related resources
February 17, 2001 9:35:56 PM

If I were you I would go with the value. I got an SB Live MP3+ and most of the software on there comes with big claims, zero instructions, and very low usefulness (at least for the average user). Things like voice command software that doesn't have many options and mixer programs which most people won't be using. Some of them don't even really work. Dang good sound, though.

---
Want to get a 100% interest rate on your computer investment?...Stick your money in the bank!
February 18, 2001 11:06:11 PM

No they´re not the same!

The Blaster Live! has gold plated conections and the value has plastic coloured connections!

Which one would you think would be better?
The gold connections have a better isolation from Noise!

Well, and its true the pure Live! offers Alien vs Predator!
That should be interesting if you don´t have it yet!

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone
February 19, 2001 4:28:18 PM

Do not want to dispute "LordKaos" but just need to clarify.

I have a 5.1 S/B Live Platinum and it has what he refered to as plastic connections.

I sold my older non 5.1 S/B Live (X-Gamer to be specific) which had gold COLORED jacks.

The only difference in these jacks is color. The sound difference is zero.
February 19, 2001 5:23:05 PM

It´s not gold coloured it´s gold plated there´s a Uge
difference!

The gold plated connection are used to avoid the noise and
static!
You might want to ask someone else the difference between gold plated and plastic connections!
Believe me when i say its a completely different sound you would hear!


Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone
February 20, 2001 4:59:09 PM

I will try to avoid the rude tone and direction your message takes, though it is hard.

The fact that the new 5.1 series cards have plastic color coded faces on the jacks has nothing to do with the actual jack. The interior of the jack (the part that matters) is the same.

If you think the fact that you have gold colored faces on the jacks on your sound card means you have gold plated jacks you are wrong. Regardless, the outside of the jack has nothing whatsoever to do with sound quality. I think you need to come to grips with that fundamental concept.

I am tired of this pointless argument, if you insist on following your "Fool's Gold" theory ask Creative about the differences between the two interfaces. I have both cards and can tell you without a doubt "THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE"
February 20, 2001 9:13:47 PM

Well, I wasn´t trying to be rude or impolite!
When i´m rude or impolite , there´s no room for misunderstanding!

Anyway, you still seem to think gold coloured and gold plated is the same thing!

And if you could look at the connections (Gold ones!) you would see that ALL the jacks are gold plated not just the
exterior!

I see you still don´t believe me, so why don´t you ask someone who knows the subject (like a Hi-Fi store!) and see
what they tell you!

Better burn in Hell with some company than freeze in Heaven all alone
February 21, 2001 4:51:32 AM

There is no disputing the fact that gold plated connections are beneficial to sound quality. I never said otherwise.

What I am disputing is what you consider to be differences in the two different S/B Live inputs. (color coded 5.1 and non color coded pre 5.1)

As I said previously, if you think there is a difference, ask Creative.
February 23, 2001 1:19:16 AM

Price.

K7 + KT7A + MX300 + VooDoo3000 = :smile:
P3 + CUSL2-C + MX300 + Asus7700 = :smile:
March 1, 2001 1:45:43 AM

Pretty funny stuff!!!!!!!!! :o )

Now look at what he is saying. The external (to the eye) interface has dull color coded plastic. Now that is not where the conection is made. As he said it is in the interior where the mating surface lies. The pretty gold outer ring loos great 9and I guess sells great too)!

Now go ask at a stereo shop? Do you think many people there really know???

I make/test RF connectors which do quite a bit more than these useless little jacks here. The gold does little but stop corosion and is therefore better than nickle and silver. The insertion loss and return loss on these connectors don't see any difference in the plating. Now we go upto 18 GHz on coaxial connectors. Now if you wish to get into cross talk/intermodulation plating does matter. Time to get rid of the gold and copper underplate.

Are we having fun yet? If you don't beleive me I am willing to ask the engineers at work and shall return tomoorow. I alwasys love a good cat fight.

<b> Fragg at will!!! </b>
Anonymous
March 4, 2001 5:41:07 PM

Please do ask. I've always wondered about the quality of the gold vs. nickel. I just assumed that it was a marketing ploy and any difference is imperceptible to the human ear.

But to the original question about the Value! versus nonvalue... I have a very early version of the Value! (which a crappy Gigabyte mobo has since fried) and it doesn't have a digital out connection. It thought that was the difference between the two cards.
March 5, 2001 6:18:21 AM

Regarding the other differences between the value and non value S/B, I am not sure, I have never purchased a value version, I was simply objecting to what was said to be the difference it the two input/output interfaces.


Joe H.
I cannot help but chuckle myself rereading this thread. Thanks for the solid back up on this. Liked you comment about asking stereo shop's for advice. It was probably a salesman who told him that in the first place!
March 5, 2001 6:55:54 AM

I have compared the MP3+ and the value side by side and the only differnce is the crappy software they give you. I would save the $50 and get the value
Mbaha

Work is the curse of the drinking class
March 5, 2001 10:46:14 AM

Well I did ask some questions. I am not totally satisfied only because the engineer I questioned does not have experience in audio.

I will eat some crow and say that gold is a better conductor. Will you here it? Well that is the question I am not satified with. Even though the engineer said you <b>wouldn't</b> I would only put him a couple of steps above the salesman at the Hi-Fi store. As I said he does not have the experience necessary.

Still don't be fooled by the entry hole. All that is is the chamfer or guide into the real connection.

Note: This is a poor connctor to start with. And what is the plating on your male mate? What type and gauge wire are you using? How long is the wire? And what is the performance of your speaker system? These last few question are probally much more important.

And if your a freind of mine how far are you willing to go? He was about to by $14,000 worth of 2 speakers. Yeah $14,000 and they are not what he really wnats. He chan't afford the $80K set. Hell he has a one of a kind set of speaker cables which cost more than anyone stereo set I know of. Then there are his tube amps. Only 60 watts a piece too. So is power quality? Not by a far shot. Although his car has 2000 watts. Just so he can power everything cleanly and not worry. Oh then there is his surround set up. Hell I have to be happy with my Klipsch's. My PC is my stereo, DVD, surround ...

<b><font color=green>Now let find some real inteligent life! Hit my link below.</font color=green></b>

I hear if you do they will be more favorable to you when they take over. :o )

Glutzie

<b><A HREF="http://www.seti.tomshardware.com/" target="_new">How fast is your PC</A></b>
March 5, 2001 4:54:54 PM

If you're interested in good sound, why are you considering a Creative Labs product at all? I had a Live! Value. It lasted for one month in my box. It was promptly replaced with a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz which has a 10db S/N advantage over the Live!, much better drivers (their beta drivers beat CL's production drivers) and support for every gaming sound API known to God and man. The Live! digital out (I think digital speakers and 5.1 surround sound for music are a crock but that's another issue) is broken badly - the Santa Cruz's is not. There is also a 10-band equalizer in hardware. All this for $99US. The Live! sounded thin and high by comparison - the Santa Cruz has a rich, full sound.

I've never looked back.
March 5, 2001 4:57:14 PM

The biggest difference between them (besides software bundle) is luck of Digital CD In on Value cards. Other than that there is no difference, they sound the same, thing and high as the other guy said. I did not have Santa Cruz, but MX300 sounds much reacher. I had tried both kinds of Live!, sold both... heh



Post, we'll do the search... :wink:
Anonymous
March 5, 2001 9:16:50 PM

A 2000W car stereo system! Is it a dropped down Honda Civic hatchback with ground effects? That's my guess. I assume that the 1 ton portable nuclear reactor needed to power the stereo reduces his gas mileage.
Anonymous
March 6, 2001 2:47:59 AM

gg


"akuna mutata" braza... :wink:
Anonymous
March 6, 2001 2:51:12 AM

strange, gg

"akuna mutata" braza... :wink:
March 6, 2001 4:46:15 AM

"the Santa Cruz has a rich, full sound"....yeah, and so does my toilet when I flush it.

"There is also a 10-band equalizer in hardware. All this for $99US".... A 10 band equalizer! 10 whole bands! man, that is Hi-Fidelity!

what do you sell turtle beach or something?
Anonymous
March 6, 2001 4:54:49 AM

he does not sell turtle beach or something, he sells Santa Cruz from turtle beach, hehehe

"akuna mutata" braza... :wink: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pumba on 03/06/01 03:08 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 6, 2001 7:50:02 AM

hey Dumba

I got two words for you and they are not "Merry Christmas"
Anonymous
March 6, 2001 6:06:30 PM

I am veri sori, it just sounded funny, hehehe

But "Marry Christmas" to you too, gg

"akuna mutata" braza... :wink:
March 7, 2001 1:13:11 AM

"the Santa Cruz has a rich, full sound"....yeah, and so does my toilet when I flush it."

Well that explains much, specifically the location of your head - the toilet bowl.

No I don't sell Turtle beach. I just don't go in for overpriced mediocrity - hence my ditching of the Creative Labs garbage and my purchase of the Turtle Beach. Of course, I don't expect a juvenile to appreciate good sound, especially when he's actively engaged in flushing himself... (repeatedly)
March 7, 2001 6:14:22 AM

wow, touchy huh.

I made no derogatory statements to you personally and I think you should refrain from doing so as well.

Regarding good sound, neither Creative nor Turtle Beach manufacture what I would consider to be a high quality sound card, both are over priced and offer average sound at best.
March 7, 2001 5:06:05 PM

I merely returned in kind what I received in the first place - if you don't like to get it, don't give it.

Now, regarding sound cards, the Santa Cruz is the limit of what I would consider spending for a sound card, especially given its functionality. While I am aware of offerings from MidiMan and other companies that will eclipse the Santa Cruz in various categories, **none** of them will eclipse that card overall because of their inherent weaknesses in a variety of other areas. As far as a good all-round card goes, there is none better IMO.

Additionally, as far as price / performance / value goes, I consider the entire Live! line a bust. We won't even touch on Creative Lab's concept of "techncial support".
March 10, 2001 5:09:11 AM

I think you need to seek professional assistance for your personality disorder.

I have never once said anything about Creative being better than Turtle Beach and I would not assume to place myself in the role of "Grand Authority" and make such a moronic series of statements as you have.

Yes, fine, you are the final word. Turtle Beach is the best, period. Do Not Dispute Me! I Am Roj, And I Know All!
March 11, 2001 2:32:23 PM

Hey, you came off as pompous and acerbic from your first reply to my post and I gave you back in kind.

If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

As to "Grand Authority", I simply speak from the basis of my personal experiences; YMMV.

Finally, re: "moronic" - feel free to examine a mirror at any time.

Roj
March 12, 2001 5:04:52 AM

Yes, once again, you know all.

I no longer have an interest in this dialogue.

Do yourself a favor, save your anger and your judgements for your schoolmates, I have no interest in petty personal attacks.
March 12, 2001 3:23:47 PM

Then don't do 'em.

And be careful of the backswing of the door on your way out.

Roj
March 13, 2001 4:44:02 AM

I have a feeling you are the one who will be leaving, seeing how this is the only thread you ever post in.

Feel free to e-mail me if there is anything to your bullsh*t taunts punk.
March 13, 2001 1:52:15 PM

Typical of a little man: resort to profanity when incapable of defending his viewpoint any other way.

Somehow I'm not surprized.

Nor am I surprized that you can't read either - there are a couple other sound threads that I've participated in here.

And no I can't bring myself to e-mail you - it would be a waste of time. So far I haven't seen one technically constructive post from you, let alone one descriptive of a product and what it's capable of. This started off when I provided both.

All I've seen from you here is hot air and overblown rhetoric.

Again, a big surprize.

Roj
March 14, 2001 6:03:10 AM

Your post's speak for themselves, very few, very worthless, ok, fine, you like Turtle Beach, we get it already.

I will not even bother addressing your simple minded attempt to demean me.

NOW LOOK PUNK........NO ONE HERE WANTS TO WASTE ANY MORE SPACE ON THIS GARBAGE, EITHER DEAL WITH ME LIKE A MAN OR SHUT THE [-peep-] UP!
March 14, 2001 6:25:03 PM

There's nothing worthwhile there to deal with, either from an opinion-based or technical point of view, primarily because you simply haven't tendered one.

You are right on one issue though - this *is* a thorough waste of my time and the board's space. The opinions expressed elsewhere in the thread have made interesting reading though, despite your shrill histrionics.

As such, this is my final word to you on this and any other issue - from your general comportment and this last outburst it's pretty obvious that you're not someone worth taking seriously.

Roj
March 14, 2001 8:38:02 PM

The live value only has standard connectors for front and rear speakers and not the spdif connector needed for 5.1 speakers or a reciever. It also lacks the expansion slot needed to add a live drive.

All the cards with 5.1 in the name use the exact same hardware. Only the bundled applications and games are different.

So if you don't need games or a remote you can get the 5.1 OEM for $66
March 15, 2001 12:02:07 AM

Actually all the Live! cards are the same, with or without the 5.1 name. As you correctly stated, the only difference is the addition of an SP/DIF connector on models above the Value but the circuitry supporting it is already on the Value card. Also of note is the fact that the 5.1 functionality is a software feature - there is no AC3 decoder on the cards.
March 15, 2001 8:35:45 PM

"The gold does little but stop corosion"
Mmmm... Hardly. Not only does gold have negligable oxidation rate (compared to your regular copper/aluminium/steel), it also is an excellent conductor. BOTH contribute greatly to clean signal.

"The insertion loss and return loss on these connectors don't see any difference in the plating"
Hardly. Just try measuring insertion loss and SWR with quality vector network analyzer on a cheap APC-7, and on a gold plated one. You'll even see the diffs on a scalar NA...

True enough, you'll see the interesting stuff up high in GHzs, but we're talking APC-7s here! On a regular RCAs that kicks in their operational range. Given the rest of the system involved (for an SB Live! user that is), however, (the rest of connectors, cabling, amplifiers, speakers) that would have 0 effect.

When you go up into $15k price ranges for speakers, as someone mentioned here, that does show.

As for 60W vs 2000W. I'm real sorry to mention, but despite you testing/making connectors, you seem to be a bit weak in electronics. 60W aplifiers are RMS. 2000W crap is PMPO. Do the math and cry.

No offence, man, right?
March 16, 2001 5:58:45 AM

RE:
"When you go up into $15k price ranges for speakers, as someone mentioned here, that does show"

Those $15,000 speakers would most surely not be plugged into a S/B card.

That is what this thread was supposed to be about, the differences between the two S/B live cards, it then degenerated into a dispute over the differences between the two interfaces. color coded 5.1 series and non color coded pre 5.1

Do you have any information specific to that?
March 16, 2001 1:13:25 PM

amdchuck:
"Those $15,000 speakers would most surely not be plugged into a S/B card"

My previous paragraph stated :
"Given the rest of the system involved (for an SB Live! user that is)...<snip>...that would have 0 effect.
When you go up into $15k price ranges for speakers...<snip>"

I thought that it was obvious that going into $15k price ranges for speakers would clearly imply going for the rest of system components appropriate... :-) Then again, in such systems I believe no one would even try to mount any crappy connectors anyway. But if one would - you'd hear the difference, if you'd have ears worth spending $15k to please... :-)

And yes, you're right, the discussion veered a bit OT, but I just thought some corrections to JoeHeads statements were on order to put things back in proper perspective.

As for SVLive! series of cards, unfortunately I'm seeking advise on that issue too - that's how I ended up reading the thread in the first place. :-)
March 16, 2001 3:09:35 PM

Understood, was not meaning to sound rude, apologize if you got that impression.

It seems as though a lot of the differences in gold plating on the outside or visible portion of the female jacks would be specific to RCA jacks as the visible portion of the female jack actually is a conducting component. However on the mini-jacks (not sure of the technical term for that) the visible portion of the female jack is not part of the interface, therefore gold or gold colored plating would have no impact.

I believe that is the crux of the argument, this is not an RCA interface therefore taking into account the difference between various grades of RCA jacks is really not an accurate way to compare different forms of mini jacks.

Is this correct?
!