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Has anyone else seen quick death on 4170?

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April 4, 2012 12:25:13 PM

A few weeks ago I built a new PC with an AMD FX 4170 and it ran great for six days, then died.

First note, I'm not a noob, I've been building PCs since you could build them, early 1980s.

It was a "cheap" build, stock heat sink, 1333 RAM, integrated video, but ALL new components. It was for a church admin, really light load.

It was not overclocked, she didn't need it.

No AMD bashers please, I just need to know if others have seen this.

More about : quick death 4170

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April 4, 2012 1:00:55 PM

can you give us complete specs
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April 4, 2012 1:02:25 PM

What PSU is the setup using?
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April 4, 2012 1:03:29 PM

So the PC died bu the FX-4170 is OK?
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April 4, 2012 1:05:59 PM

Also, what do you mean by "Died". Are you getting anything?, Is it booting? or just completley "Dead"
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April 4, 2012 1:35:57 PM

If you have been building PC's since the 80's I assume that you have tested each component, and given your own rig listing as an 4100, you have swapped out the CPU and ascertained that it has indeed failed?

If so then this is highly unusual, I build custom PC's for schools from Sempron's to i7's and have never had a chip fail in 100's of builds (and due to often strict cost constrains most have been AMD based), but I am sure it is possible for a chip to fail.

I have just finished 30 A6-3500 based PC's for a school PC gaming club, and all have been torture tested for 48 hours and none have failed.

Suggest you get a swap out part ASAP and not worry, I really don't think there are any concerns over the quality of AMD's parts.

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April 4, 2012 1:38:53 PM

Given the 'cheap' nature of the build there's always the chance a cheap PSU let go and took some of the more expensive parts along with it.
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April 4, 2012 1:41:42 PM

arent those FX chips running hot ?? I hope he was using something to keep it cool not just air !!
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a c 79 à CPUs
April 4, 2012 2:26:39 PM

rglaredo said:
arent those FX chips running hot ?? I hope he was using something to keep it cool not just air !!


Stock cooling is find for stock speeds. not everyone needs water
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April 4, 2012 2:47:58 PM

The CPU died. I figured that out once I got another AM3+ motherboard. Since this was my first AM3+ I didn't have another system to check the components on. I ordered another Motherboard, a Biostar running the 990 chipset, 8GB 1600 RAM, and a 4100 for me.

Here's everything but the case, which has two fans, one in the side panel blowing air on the MB the other in the rear for exhaust:

1 x CPU AMD|4-CORE FX-4170 4.2G R
1 x MB ASROCK|880GM-LE FX 880G AM3+ R
1 x MEM 2Gx2|CRUCIAL CT2KIT25664BD160B (DDR3 1600)
1 x DVD BURN LG | GH22NS90B OEM - OEM
1 x HD 500G|WD SATAIII WD5000AAKX %
1 x PSU COOLMASTER|RS-460-PSAR-J3 RT (460W PS)

To clarify a few points:

died = No power up of the motherboard at all, no fan, no nothing.

Yes, I put the 4170 in my new rig and it was dead.

Stock cooler is good for mild overclock, but I didn't overclock anything.

The CPU arrives at Newegg today I expect a replacement next week

The rig listed in my signature is the one I'm using right now. I used better "stuff" on mine because it was my money. The church budget is minimal, I talked a group into donating the cash to buy the parts.

I have Intel and AMD in my home, everything from dual Opteron servers to my wife's slow laptop a 1.8Ghz. Intel dual core. My kids and I all run quads because we do more "serious" work.

Oh, and on the "not just air" issue, my FX4100 runs at 4.1Ghz. all day, mostly at room temperature, never more than 8C above room temperature. The Coolermaster Hyper 212+ is a GREAT cooler for $30.

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April 4, 2012 2:55:15 PM

For $363.61 the church got a nice fast PC. It replaced one that I donated, a dual core 2.2Ghz. Opteron with 2GB ECC RAM.
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April 4, 2012 3:00:23 PM

tractorntrainguy said:

1 x PSU COOLMASTER|RS-460-PSAR-J3 RT (460W PS)

There is your problem.
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April 4, 2012 3:38:11 PM

460 Watt is too small for motherboard, hard disk, DVD?

No video card.
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April 4, 2012 5:00:31 PM

tractorntrainguy said:
460 Watt is too small for motherboard, hard disk, DVD?

No video card.

no, it just looks like a weak component, doesn't mean it won't work with an equally weak system (cheap rather, $363 is a good price for a cheap build)

Thing is everything has a chance of failure, even had a friend have his I3 2100 poof in a couple of weeks. I let him borrow my Llano htpc while he was RMAing components.
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April 4, 2012 5:13:03 PM

tractorntrainguy said:
460 Watt is too small for motherboard, hard disk, DVD?

No video card.


460 Watts should be fine it's a cheap build so it's not like you're running a high-end motherboard with two high-end video cards and alot of other demanding hardware. It's more that the PSU is junky and if it took a dump it probably took the motherboard and maybe the CPU with it.
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April 4, 2012 6:03:22 PM

Crap psu, that is why the system blew up. I am sure if you get another mobo and another psu it will all work.
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April 4, 2012 6:13:13 PM

I would replace the PSU first and see if anything happens. If not then I would replace the motherboard next and again see if that fixes the problem. If it still won't start up then I would replace the CPU and that should fix the problem.
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April 4, 2012 6:14:55 PM

you should read

Quote:
Yes, I put the 4170 in my new rig and it was dead.
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April 4, 2012 6:27:08 PM

Like Noob said, I DID test the CPU in a known good rig.

Since I didn't have my new rig when it failed I RMA'ed the motherboard first. I haven't had a CPU failure in over 10 years, well unless I did something STUPID. (Like bumping into the power switch before I had the heatsink on an old Duron.)

Eventually I will have a new motherboard and CPU, once Newegg sends them. The motherboard gets here tomorrow.

The other thing I'm going to do is scrape the AMD crap off the heatsink and put some Artic cooler MX-2 on it. That stuff is great. I still can't get over how cool my rig runs on just air. My peak today was 4C over room temperature when I ran a test on my replacement graphics card. I went from a 4850 to a 4870, it got me to a 7.5 on the graphics WEI from 7.3.

I don't play games but I still want something decent. My son will get my old 4850 to go along with his current 4850 in crossfire mode. Yes, he plays games. 4850s are a great value right now $40 or less is what I paid on ebay.
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April 4, 2012 6:48:54 PM

Can you try the 4170 Warranty?
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April 4, 2012 9:31:35 PM

To get this back on topic:

Is there a higher than normal failure rate for the 4170?

Like I said earlier, I haven't had a CPU fail in over ten years.
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a c 185 à CPUs
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April 5, 2012 1:01:26 AM

Should be the same, all I can think of is it runs a bit hotter/faster.
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April 11, 2012 8:11:15 PM

Well the replacement parts finally came from Newegg and I reassembled the system. I scraped the AMD compound off and used the Arctic Cooler MX-2 compound. I'm letting it run on the bench for a couple days before I put it back into service. My 4100 has been running flawlessly at 4.1 Ghz.
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April 13, 2012 5:18:31 PM

So, it's been running for a couple days, basically at idle. My guess is that the AMD CPU cooler sucks. Idle temp is 30C, I ran Prime95 until temp hit 64C and I stopped it to avoid cooking the CPU.

I'm running the latest BIOS, I used Arctic Cooler MX-2 compound, I have a fan blowing are onto the motherboard and another sucking it out of the case. I tried running the system with a video card instead of the on-board unit. I even tried UNDERCLOCKING it!

Nothing helps with the standard cooler. My FX 4100 overclocked to 4.1Ghz. never approaches these temps. I guess I'm going to have to buy a better cooler for this build.
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April 13, 2012 5:49:46 PM

Even if the stock cooler isn't great it shouldn't overheat. AMD and Intel make thier fan/heatsinks to work effectively with their CPU at their given TDP. Did you check to see if the fan/heatsink is seated right? Also how much thermal paste did you apply? To much thermal paste can cause overheating too but to me 64* using Prime 95 doesn't seem that bad.
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April 13, 2012 6:23:59 PM

Yes, it's seated right, I used about a grain of rice sized portion of compound.

The maximum rated case temp on the CPU is 61.1C I believe.
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April 13, 2012 6:51:37 PM

Is the motherboard properly controlling the fan speed?

also what is the ambient temp where the computer is? could be an issue of the room itself being too warm for that aluminum cooler. overall quality, id say the stock AMD fan is similar than the stock intel ones.

Also are you monitoring motherboard cpu temp or internal cpu temp? MB cpu temp will always be higher than internal. Internal temps are reported in AMD overdrive.
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April 13, 2012 7:03:02 PM

I forgot about the CPU fan. Go into the BIOS and look at the fan speeds. Make sure the fan is working right. If it's faulty it wouldn't be working at all or it could be in the beginning stages of taking a dump on you. Is the fan making any weird noises like ratteling or whining?
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April 13, 2012 8:14:38 PM

I turned off motherboard fan control, it runs at max, no noise.

I'm reading the temps from Hardware Monitor TMPIN0 which matches what the Asrock overclocking software says the CPU temp is. No, I'm not overclocking it, I just used it to check temps.

I'm at home now and my FX 4100 system shows the CPU temp is about the same as my room temp 19C. I just ran Prime95 on my machine and the CPU temp peaked at 29C, core temp peaked at 30C. I'm NOT running the stock cooler.
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April 13, 2012 8:25:58 PM

tractorntrainguy said:
I turned off motherboard fan control, it runs at max, no noise.

I'm reading the temps from Hardware Monitor TMPIN0 which matches what the Asrock overclocking software says the CPU temp is. No, I'm not overclocking it, I just used it to check temps.

I'm at home now and my FX 4100 system shows the CPU temp is about the same as my room temp 19C. I just ran Prime95 on my machine and the CPU temp peaked at 29C, core temp peaked at 30C. I'm NOT running the stock cooler.


Are you totally sure about that?

Stock AMD HSF's are not quiet by any stretch. They are really bad at doing their job and the Fan is way too loud. They always pack the little fan, instead of a proper 8cm one.

Cheers!
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April 13, 2012 8:36:32 PM

"Are you totally sure about that?"

Yup, I turned on "quiet cool" and the fan speed went WAY down.
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April 13, 2012 8:59:35 PM

Well, If you don't plan on overclocking it, try undervolting it keeping the default speed. I've heard that some people have managed to do it and the FX'es get cooler.

In my own experience, a CPU could burn just because of a faulty PSU or a bad thermal reader. I would say yours is an isolated case, or at least I hope so, hahaha.

Cheers!
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April 13, 2012 11:00:31 PM

Well tmpin0 is the motherboard socket. It will be higher than the actual cpu temp especially if there isn't much air flow across where the actual cpu is. Without a fan directly aimed at the socket, my temps were 50+ on water, adding the fan brought it down to 43 max. Internal cpu temp both times were 35c.
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April 13, 2012 11:20:42 PM

thanks Noob, I'll check it out tomorrow when I'm at work, I have fans I'll see what I can do.
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April 14, 2012 2:18:47 AM


Its not even clear to me that the cpu actually failed on its own merits. This may well have been the board or some other component.

For example, faulty power regulation circuits on the MB could have caused the CPU to go bye bye. Not exactly the cpu's doing, but illustrates a scenario where the CPU dies, but another component is at fault. And specific situation is still in play as you have not reported testing the MB before the RMA.

Someone mentioned the PSU, is it operational with the new MB/cpu?
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April 14, 2012 5:08:11 AM

amuffin said:
Crap psu, that is why the system blew up. I am sure if you get another mobo and another psu it will all work.

cooler master is a reliable brand...?
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April 14, 2012 6:06:29 AM

bob1255 said:
cooler master is a reliable brand...?


In most things I would say yes but in power supplies I would say no. I wouldn't put them in the same group as Corsair, Seasonic and Power PC and Cooling.
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April 14, 2012 9:41:51 AM

use cpu-z to check the load and idle voltages, and compare to your other, the mobo could be providing the wrong voltage given that this is the second. you've not reused the mobo from a previous build.
sorry to ask the dumb questions but I have ran out of not so dumb ones.
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a c 79 à CPUs
April 14, 2012 1:22:24 PM

two really hot 4100's, one died, much hotter than the op's 4170. I think thats about it.

my thought is mobo feeding too high a voltage, killing the first one, and making the second one toasty, and eventually killing it too.

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a c 79 à CPUs
April 14, 2012 2:06:57 PM

all stock, idle 30C prime 64C and still climbing when he stopped it, thats for the current chip, no temps on failed chip. fan profile on normal or high, but not quiet, on quiet the fan speed slowed down, so its 'working'.
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a c 79 à CPUs
April 14, 2012 2:14:45 PM

waiting for volts,
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April 14, 2012 6:20:09 PM

Time to put this thing to bed ...

I under volted the CPU to 1.25, the lowest it would run stable. Temps went down to something reasonable, here they are:

Peak with Prime95
CPUTIN 55C
Cores 0-4 36C

After cool down:
CPUTIN 37C
Cores 0-4 13C

All readings from Hardware Monitor, verified volts with CPUID.

I tried all sorts of fans from my spare parts, none brought the CPU temp down better than the stock fan. My guess is that the cooler is at it's limits with this CPU.

I think it's safe enough to run as-is now without spending $30 for the bigger cooler. Not sure it would even fit on this little motherboard anyway.

I also think that part of the problem is using this cheap $60 Asrock motherboard. I'm glad I spent the extra $130 on my Biostar. Unfortunately I had a strict budget for the church build, but you get what you pay for.
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April 14, 2012 9:28:20 PM

Those are quite nice temps indeed.

Glad you were able to lower the temps.

Cheers!

EDIT: Oh, the comment about the stock fan wasn't about it's efficiency, but it's noisiness when in high RPMs. Is it quiet for you?
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April 14, 2012 9:42:04 PM

I'll put it this way ... It's not the noisiest thing in the room.

I'm going to monitor it and if the temps run higher I'll replace the stock cooler with the Cooler Master unit I run. I'll have to figure out a way to make it fit.
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April 15, 2012 12:24:28 AM

Best answer selected by tractorntrainguy.
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April 15, 2012 3:55:10 PM

This topic has been closed by Mousemonkey
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