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The Difference Between PS3 and xflop 1.5 full circle at E3..

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Anonymous
May 29, 2005 1:33:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

The PS3 devkit running the real time tech demos was a custom built
motherboard with a Cell processor and two Nvidia 6800 graphics cards in
SLI running a modified Linux. It was not a "PC". The PS3 developers
will be developing on systems representative of the actual unit.

The xflop 1.5 full circle devkit was an Apple G5, probably overclocked,
with a prototype ATI graphics card, running two Mac games on a pair of
G5s. The xflop 1.5 full circle developers will be developing on a "PC"
not representative of the final unit.

The PS3 ran real time tech demos on an actual Cell processor, including
a Cell version of the Unreal Engine 3 and showed a real time rendered
sequence from the Final Fantasy VII movie being run on the Cell
processor and the two 6800s in SLI representing the GPU. Nvidia has
stated the RSX will be much more powerful than two 6800s in SLI.

There was no actual xflop 1.5 full circle hardware demonstrated at E3.
The xflop 1.5 full circle processor isn't done and the GPU isn't done
at this time. Everybody knows that ATI hasn't gotten their version of
SLI working yet for PCs and the Mac G5 sure as hell doesn't have SLI
capability.

Sony has never said they were anywhere near finished and they aren't
the ones pushing for a launch this year. Sony has stated over and over
that the PS3 launch will be in early 2006. That launch is looking like
6 months after the xflop 1.5 full circle launch, not one year.

The xflop 1.5 full circle is now admitting the final design isn't even
finished yet (duh, they couldn't even show up with actual hardware at
E3) and they don't expect to have final hardware until September. They
are now saying a late November launch. This means two months to
evaluate, assemble and ship shelf units. This means manufacturing half
a million to a million units with less than two months to test actual
hardware and have it go into production in parallel, at the same time.
Ever heard of skipping the beta testing, let the consumer eat the early
bugs?

The Gears of War "demonstration" was of a PC game being developed on a
PC and being run on a PC with two 6800s in SLI. It was not an xflop 1.5
full circle devkit and had no connection to the xflop 1.5 full circle
except for being hijacked in name. It was also not playable, it was
just being run as a series of scripted sequences as a demonstration.

Axis Animation has stated they provided the technical assets, the 3D
models, the textures, the animations, to Guerilla Games for the
Killzone 2 demo and they were "built to PS3 spec". Guerilla Games has
said the Killzone 2 sequence was representative of game play. Nobody
every said this video footage was a screen capture of actual gameplay.
There are all indications that the sequence shown was of a scripted
scene running in real time on the PS3 devkit with that scripted scene
screen captured to make a movie. A scripted scene running in real time
on a devkit is not in-game action but it is not "prerendered" either.
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 4:41:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Blig Merk wrote:

> The xflop 1.5 full circle devkit was an Apple G5, probably
> overclocked, with a prototype ATI graphics card, running two Mac
> games on a pair of G5s. The xflop 1.5 full circle developers will be
> developing on a "PC" not representative of the final unit.

The architecture closely matches that of the Xbox 360 and they're relatively
cheap to build. Why do you think X360 developers have had devkits for almost
a year while PS3 developers are only just getting them, or still don't even
have them?

What does it matter whether the devkit is perfectly in line with the final
hardware or not? It's enough to give developers the building blocks they
need to nearly complete a game, then tweak it when they have the final
hardware. That's why they call them development kits. Get it? Given that
some of the Xbox 360 *playable* demos looked pretty good (Condemned and Full
Auto, for instance, and even Call of Duty 2 wasn't too bad), I can't wait to
see how great they look on the fully powered final hardware.

> a real
> time rendered sequence

Nice oxymoron, boob.

> There was no actual xflop 1.5 full circle hardware demonstrated at E3.

Guess what, dipshit: there was no actual Xbox hardware at E3 2001 either.
Then again, you were just as terrified back then as you are now. Bligmerk
Full Circle indeed.

> Sony has never said they were anywhere near finished and they aren't
> the ones pushing for a launch this year.

Their ENTIRE E3 press conference was about PS3. PSP? PSP who? Upcoming PS2
games? Who cares? Who needs 'em? We're just gonna spend two hours talking
about a product that won't see the light of day for over a year!

Why all the fuss right now when they're so far from launch? Because, like
you, they're scared of Microsoft getting into the marketplace first this
time and, like you, need to counteract that threat with bullshit and
bombast.

> That launch is looking like
> 6 months after the xflop 1.5 full circle launch, not one year.

LOL! Keep dreaming! Sony *might* get the PS3 out in late spring in Japan,
maybe, if they don't hit any of their infamous manufacturing snags. But you
can bet your frequently violated ass that the PS3 won't be in North America
until close to one full year after Xbox 360. Which, as you know, is
launching in ALL territories this year, not just here.

> They
> are now saying a late November launch. This means two months to
> evaluate, assemble and ship shelf units. This means manufacturing half
> a million to a million units with less than two months to test actual
> hardware and have it go into production in parallel, at the same time.

Guess what! They did the exact same thing with the first Xbox, which was
only in the design stage for a little over a year at that point. Work began
on the Xbox 360 design just after the first Xbox came out. I think they know
a little more about the machine and the production process than some bitter
old hick like you.

> Ever heard of skipping the beta testing, let the consumer eat the
> early bugs?

Yep, that's exactly what Sony did with the PSP in Japan, lol. Thanks for
reminding me.

> It was not an xflop
> 1.5 full circle devkit and had no connection to the xflop 1.5 full
> circle except for being hijacked in name.

And how are we supposed to care once the game comes out for Xbox 360 and
we're sitting in our living rooms playing and enjoying the hell out of it?
How?

You're so dim and shortsighted, Bligmerk. You've never, ever been able to
see the big picture. Let me help you out: The Xbox 360 is launching this
year. It will be a powerful console. It will have lots of games, some OK,
some good, some fantastic. Gamers will buy it and play it and enjoy it.
That's the bottom line, and your terrified ramblings about devkits and
production schedules won't do a damn thing to change it.

And then a year later, the PS3 will come out. We'll chuckle at how little
resemblance Killzone 2 bears to the CGI video we saw a year earlier -- that
will be the PS3's "can render Toy Story in real time" albatross -- but we'll
buy it and enjoy it also. Of course, that will be your first taste of the
next generation that the rest of us have been enjoying for a year. Have fun
playing your PS2 version of Ghost Recon 3 while X360 owners are playing
theirs.

> Axis Animation has stated they provided the technical assets, the 3D
> models, the textures, the animations, to Guerilla Games for the
> Killzone 2 demo and they were "built to PS3 spec".

Of course it was built to spec, because the specs are ludicrously
unrealistic. I don't mean the system specs themselves (though we'll likely
see those quietly downgraded and features dropped over the next year or so),
I mean how they'll translate into actual real-world performance.

> Guerilla Games has
> said the Killzone 2 sequence was representative of game play.

And I say I'm the King of France. Zut alors, oui oui!

> There are all indications that the sequence shown was of a scripted
> scene running in real time on the PS3 devkit with that scripted scene
> screen captured to make a movie. A scripted scene running in real time
> on a devkit is not in-game action but it is not "prerendered" either.

The Killzone movie did not ever run in real-time on any hardware other than
the DVD player that played it back. It was pre-rendered CGI. You actually
think a pair of 6800 Ultras in SLI can produce THAT level of visual quality
in real time, with an utterly seamless, fluid framerate? Get your head out
of your ass, you hopeless fanboy.

Poor Bliggy. You're just setting yourself up for another humiliation when
Killzone finally comes out and looks nothing like what was shown. Then
again, you did say that the first Killzone was "whispered to be like no
other game to this time" when in fact it was a dreary, derivative, 20
FPS-at-best mess. LOL, "whispered"? What a fruit.

-Z-
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 5:34:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

On Sun, 29 May 2005 12:41:25 -0400, "Zackman"
<zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote in message
<LrydnYJ6O4QskQffRVn-gg@giganews.com>:

>Poor Bliggy. You're just setting yourself up for another humiliation when
>Killzone finally comes out and looks nothing like what was shown. Then
>again, you did say that the first Killzone was "whispered to be like no
>other game to this time" when in fact it was a dreary, derivative, 20
>FPS-at-best mess. LOL, "whispered"? What a fruit.

You mean this?
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.games.video.xbo...


------- Quote begins -------

From: blog_smirk@yahoo.com (Blig Merk)
Newsgroups: alt.games.video.xbox
Subject: Kill Zone In-Game Movie!!! Playstation 2 Exclusive!!!
Date: 19 Feb 2004 19:40:09 -0800

This is a low res stream movie of in-game action for Killzone, a
Playstation2 exclusive single player game with squad based coop online
multiplayer, whispered to be like no other game to this time:

http://www.gametrailers.com/gt_vault/t_killzone_gp2.wmv

The XFLop fades further into dull, mindless, repetitive, derivative,
copy-cat, cotton candy fluff game titles designed for extremely low
brow mental midgets.

------- Quote ends -------
Related resources
May 29, 2005 10:46:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Paul Angstrom" <angstrom@go.away.spammers.invalid> wrote in message
news:0n9k91tu8dj903vg1rc714nmctjjsmfi75@news...
> On Sun, 29 May 2005 12:41:25 -0400, "Zackman"
> <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote in message
> <LrydnYJ6O4QskQffRVn-gg@giganews.com>:
>
>>Poor Bliggy. You're just setting yourself up for another humiliation when
>>Killzone finally comes out and looks nothing like what was shown. Then
>>again, you did say that the first Killzone was "whispered to be like no
>>other game to this time" when in fact it was a dreary, derivative, 20
>>FPS-at-best mess. LOL, "whispered"? What a fruit.
>
> You mean this?
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.games.video.xbo...
>
>
> ------- Quote begins -------
>
> From: blog_smirk@yahoo.com (Blig Merk)
> Newsgroups: alt.games.video.xbox
> Subject: Kill Zone In-Game Movie!!! Playstation 2 Exclusive!!!
> Date: 19 Feb 2004 19:40:09 -0800
>
> This is a low res stream movie of in-game action for Killzone, a
> Playstation2 exclusive single player game with squad based coop online
> multiplayer, whispered to be like no other game to this time:
>
> http://www.gametrailers.com/gt_vault/t_killzone_gp2.wmv
>
> The XFLop fades further into dull, mindless, repetitive, derivative,
> copy-cat, cotton candy fluff game titles designed for extremely low
> brow mental midgets.
>
> ------- Quote ends -------

http://www.robd.net/sound/simpsons/misc/haha.wav
May 30, 2005 4:08:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Hank the Rapper" <xflopgoon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hc6dnWj_OdEEGwffRVn-jg@giganews.com...
> Strychnine wrote:
>
>> http://www.robd.net/sound/simpsons/misc/haha.wav
>
> Hey, that's my thing to do.
>
Sorry ^_^ but it works on so many levels...
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 5:06:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Blig Merk" <blig_murk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117384403.094048.70540@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> The PS3 devkit running the real time tech demos was a custom built
> motherboard with a Cell processor and two Nvidia 6800 graphics cards in
> SLI running a modified Linux. It was not a "PC". The PS3 developers
> will be developing on systems representative of the actual unit.
>
> The xflop 1.5 full circle devkit was an Apple G5, probably overclocked,
> with a prototype ATI graphics card, running two Mac games on a pair of
> G5s. The xflop 1.5 full circle developers will be developing on a "PC"
> not representative of the final unit.
>
> The PS3 ran real time tech demos on an actual Cell processor, including
> a Cell version of the Unreal Engine 3 and showed a real time rendered
> sequence from the Final Fantasy VII movie being run on the Cell
> processor and the two 6800s in SLI representing the GPU. Nvidia has
> stated the RSX will be much more powerful than two 6800s in SLI.
>
> There was no actual xflop 1.5 full circle hardware demonstrated at E3.
> The xflop 1.5 full circle processor isn't done and the GPU isn't done
> at this time. Everybody knows that ATI hasn't gotten their version of
> SLI working yet for PCs and the Mac G5 sure as hell doesn't have SLI
> capability.
>
> Sony has never said they were anywhere near finished and they aren't
> the ones pushing for a launch this year. Sony has stated over and over
> that the PS3 launch will be in early 2006. That launch is looking like
> 6 months after the xflop 1.5 full circle launch, not one year.
>
> The xflop 1.5 full circle is now admitting the final design isn't even
> finished yet (duh, they couldn't even show up with actual hardware at
> E3) and they don't expect to have final hardware until September. They
> are now saying a late November launch. This means two months to
> evaluate, assemble and ship shelf units. This means manufacturing half
> a million to a million units with less than two months to test actual
> hardware and have it go into production in parallel, at the same time.
> Ever heard of skipping the beta testing, let the consumer eat the early
> bugs?
>
> The Gears of War "demonstration" was of a PC game being developed on a
> PC and being run on a PC with two 6800s in SLI. It was not an xflop 1.5
> full circle devkit and had no connection to the xflop 1.5 full circle
> except for being hijacked in name. It was also not playable, it was
> just being run as a series of scripted sequences as a demonstration.
>
> Axis Animation has stated they provided the technical assets, the 3D
> models, the textures, the animations, to Guerilla Games for the
> Killzone 2 demo and they were "built to PS3 spec". Guerilla Games has
> said the Killzone 2 sequence was representative of game play. Nobody
> every said this video footage was a screen capture of actual gameplay.
> There are all indications that the sequence shown was of a scripted
> scene running in real time on the PS3 devkit with that scripted scene
> screen captured to make a movie. A scripted scene running in real time
> on a devkit is not in-game action but it is not "prerendered" either.
>

You set yourself up every time Muk. Just open your mouth or type some words,
and you've already lost
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 12:38:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Ah-ooo-ga! Ah-ooo-ga! Zackycrybabybitch on Full Damage Control alert!
As always, your response consisted of nothing but hysterical shrieking,
copy monkey apeing, and nonsensical ignorance. It is not worth
responding to beyond this. The only games the xflop 1.5 full circle is
going to have are going to be on the PC anyway, and the graphics will
now almost be on par with a good high end gaming PC, yes, on HDTV even
though your pea brain is unable to comprehend that. I will be playing
Call of Duty 2 and Battlefield 2 on my PC with much better graphics and
controls months before they show up in scaled back form on the xflop
1.5 full circle. The xflop 1.5 full circle is an improvement over the
XFLop but it is an incremental improvement, not worthy of my interest
beyond my contempt and dislike of its diluting effect on the video game
market.

Zackman wrote:
> Blig Merk wrote:
>
> > The xflop 1.5 full circle devkit was an Apple G5, probably
> > overclocked, with a prototype ATI graphics card, running two Mac
> > games on a pair of G5s. The xflop 1.5 full circle developers will be
> > developing on a "PC" not representative of the final unit.
>
> The architecture closely matches that of the Xbox 360 and they're relatively
> cheap to build. Why do you think X360 developers have had devkits for almost
> a year while PS3 developers are only just getting them, or still don't even
> have them?
>
> What does it matter whether the devkit is perfectly in line with the final
> hardware or not? It's enough to give developers the building blocks they
> need to nearly complete a game, then tweak it when they have the final
> hardware. That's why they call them development kits. Get it? Given that
> some of the Xbox 360 *playable* demos looked pretty good (Condemned and Full
> Auto, for instance, and even Call of Duty 2 wasn't too bad), I can't wait to
> see how great they look on the fully powered final hardware.
>
> > a real
> > time rendered sequence
>
> Nice oxymoron, boob.
>
> > There was no actual xflop 1.5 full circle hardware demonstrated at E3.
>
> Guess what, dipshit: there was no actual Xbox hardware at E3 2001 either.
> Then again, you were just as terrified back then as you are now. Bligmerk
> Full Circle indeed.
>
> > Sony has never said they were anywhere near finished and they aren't
> > the ones pushing for a launch this year.
>
> Their ENTIRE E3 press conference was about PS3. PSP? PSP who? Upcoming PS2
> games? Who cares? Who needs 'em? We're just gonna spend two hours talking
> about a product that won't see the light of day for over a year!
>
> Why all the fuss right now when they're so far from launch? Because, like
> you, they're scared of Microsoft getting into the marketplace first this
> time and, like you, need to counteract that threat with bullshit and
> bombast.
>
> > That launch is looking like
> > 6 months after the xflop 1.5 full circle launch, not one year.
>
> LOL! Keep dreaming! Sony *might* get the PS3 out in late spring in Japan,
> maybe, if they don't hit any of their infamous manufacturing snags. But you
> can bet your frequently violated ass that the PS3 won't be in North America
> until close to one full year after Xbox 360. Which, as you know, is
> launching in ALL territories this year, not just here.
>
> > They
> > are now saying a late November launch. This means two months to
> > evaluate, assemble and ship shelf units. This means manufacturing half
> > a million to a million units with less than two months to test actual
> > hardware and have it go into production in parallel, at the same time.
>
> Guess what! They did the exact same thing with the first Xbox, which was
> only in the design stage for a little over a year at that point. Work began
> on the Xbox 360 design just after the first Xbox came out. I think they know
> a little more about the machine and the production process than some bitter
> old hick like you.
>
> > Ever heard of skipping the beta testing, let the consumer eat the
> > early bugs?
>
> Yep, that's exactly what Sony did with the PSP in Japan, lol. Thanks for
> reminding me.
>
> > It was not an xflop
> > 1.5 full circle devkit and had no connection to the xflop 1.5 full
> > circle except for being hijacked in name.
>
> And how are we supposed to care once the game comes out for Xbox 360 and
> we're sitting in our living rooms playing and enjoying the hell out of it?
> How?
>
> You're so dim and shortsighted, Bligmerk. You've never, ever been able to
> see the big picture. Let me help you out: The Xbox 360 is launching this
> year. It will be a powerful console. It will have lots of games, some OK,
> some good, some fantastic. Gamers will buy it and play it and enjoy it.
> That's the bottom line, and your terrified ramblings about devkits and
> production schedules won't do a damn thing to change it.
>
> And then a year later, the PS3 will come out. We'll chuckle at how little
> resemblance Killzone 2 bears to the CGI video we saw a year earlier -- that
> will be the PS3's "can render Toy Story in real time" albatross -- but we'll
> buy it and enjoy it also. Of course, that will be your first taste of the
> next generation that the rest of us have been enjoying for a year. Have fun
> playing your PS2 version of Ghost Recon 3 while X360 owners are playing
> theirs.
>
> > Axis Animation has stated they provided the technical assets, the 3D
> > models, the textures, the animations, to Guerilla Games for the
> > Killzone 2 demo and they were "built to PS3 spec".
>
> Of course it was built to spec, because the specs are ludicrously
> unrealistic. I don't mean the system specs themselves (though we'll likely
> see those quietly downgraded and features dropped over the next year or so),
> I mean how they'll translate into actual real-world performance.
>
> > Guerilla Games has
> > said the Killzone 2 sequence was representative of game play.
>
> And I say I'm the King of France. Zut alors, oui oui!
>
> > There are all indications that the sequence shown was of a scripted
> > scene running in real time on the PS3 devkit with that scripted scene
> > screen captured to make a movie. A scripted scene running in real time
> > on a devkit is not in-game action but it is not "prerendered" either.
>
> The Killzone movie did not ever run in real-time on any hardware other than
> the DVD player that played it back. It was pre-rendered CGI. You actually
> think a pair of 6800 Ultras in SLI can produce THAT level of visual quality
> in real time, with an utterly seamless, fluid framerate? Get your head out
> of your ass, you hopeless fanboy.
>
> Poor Bliggy. You're just setting yourself up for another humiliation when
> Killzone finally comes out and looks nothing like what was shown. Then
> again, you did say that the first Killzone was "whispered to be like no
> other game to this time" when in fact it was a dreary, derivative, 20
> FPS-at-best mess. LOL, "whispered"? What a fruit.
>
> -Z-
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 8:36:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Why do you insist that having a game on Xbox 360 is somehow diminished
simply because the game is available on the PC? Seems silly, especially
when you post your pro-PC comments in a console group.

When I play my Xbox (or my PS2 when I had one several years ago) on my 16:9
120" diagonal screen with reference level audio, it is AMAZING. Console
gaming is NOT PC gaming. I have a setup surpasses the setups of most
commercial theaters.

And if you've followed the trend, movie ticket sales are down, rentals are
up, and more and more folks are building HTs in their homes. So yeah,
you'll be enjoying PC gaming while I, and other gamers, play on big screens.
But I am sure there is some merit to playing on a PC screen... I just can't
think of one at the moment.

-Sammy

"Blig Merk" <blig_murk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117467495.619872.202450@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ah-ooo-ga! Ah-ooo-ga! Zackycrybabybitch on Full Damage Control alert!
> As always, your response consisted of nothing but hysterical shrieking,
> copy monkey apeing, and nonsensical ignorance. It is not worth
> responding to beyond this. The only games the xflop 1.5 full circle is
> going to have are going to be on the PC anyway, and the graphics will
> now almost be on par with a good high end gaming PC, yes, on HDTV even
> though your pea brain is unable to comprehend that. I will be playing
> Call of Duty 2 and Battlefield 2 on my PC with much better graphics and
> controls months before they show up in scaled back form on the xflop
> 1.5 full circle. The xflop 1.5 full circle is an improvement over the
> XFLop but it is an incremental improvement, not worthy of my interest
> beyond my contempt and dislike of its diluting effect on the video game
> market.
>
> Zackman wrote:
> > Blig Merk wrote:
> >
> > > The xflop 1.5 full circle devkit was an Apple G5, probably
> > > overclocked, with a prototype ATI graphics card, running two Mac
> > > games on a pair of G5s. The xflop 1.5 full circle developers will be
> > > developing on a "PC" not representative of the final unit.
> >
> > The architecture closely matches that of the Xbox 360 and they're
relatively
> > cheap to build. Why do you think X360 developers have had devkits for
almost
> > a year while PS3 developers are only just getting them, or still don't
even
> > have them?
> >
> > What does it matter whether the devkit is perfectly in line with the
final
> > hardware or not? It's enough to give developers the building blocks they
> > need to nearly complete a game, then tweak it when they have the final
> > hardware. That's why they call them development kits. Get it? Given that
> > some of the Xbox 360 *playable* demos looked pretty good (Condemned and
Full
> > Auto, for instance, and even Call of Duty 2 wasn't too bad), I can't
wait to
> > see how great they look on the fully powered final hardware.
> >
> > > a real
> > > time rendered sequence
> >
> > Nice oxymoron, boob.
> >
> > > There was no actual xflop 1.5 full circle hardware demonstrated at E3.
> >
> > Guess what, dipshit: there was no actual Xbox hardware at E3 2001
either.
> > Then again, you were just as terrified back then as you are now.
Bligmerk
> > Full Circle indeed.
> >
> > > Sony has never said they were anywhere near finished and they aren't
> > > the ones pushing for a launch this year.
> >
> > Their ENTIRE E3 press conference was about PS3. PSP? PSP who? Upcoming
PS2
> > games? Who cares? Who needs 'em? We're just gonna spend two hours
talking
> > about a product that won't see the light of day for over a year!
> >
> > Why all the fuss right now when they're so far from launch? Because,
like
> > you, they're scared of Microsoft getting into the marketplace first this
> > time and, like you, need to counteract that threat with bullshit and
> > bombast.
> >
> > > That launch is looking like
> > > 6 months after the xflop 1.5 full circle launch, not one year.
> >
> > LOL! Keep dreaming! Sony *might* get the PS3 out in late spring in
Japan,
> > maybe, if they don't hit any of their infamous manufacturing snags. But
you
> > can bet your frequently violated ass that the PS3 won't be in North
America
> > until close to one full year after Xbox 360. Which, as you know, is
> > launching in ALL territories this year, not just here.
> >
> > > They
> > > are now saying a late November launch. This means two months to
> > > evaluate, assemble and ship shelf units. This means manufacturing half
> > > a million to a million units with less than two months to test actual
> > > hardware and have it go into production in parallel, at the same time.
> >
> > Guess what! They did the exact same thing with the first Xbox, which was
> > only in the design stage for a little over a year at that point. Work
began
> > on the Xbox 360 design just after the first Xbox came out. I think they
know
> > a little more about the machine and the production process than some
bitter
> > old hick like you.
> >
> > > Ever heard of skipping the beta testing, let the consumer eat the
> > > early bugs?
> >
> > Yep, that's exactly what Sony did with the PSP in Japan, lol. Thanks for
> > reminding me.
> >
> > > It was not an xflop
> > > 1.5 full circle devkit and had no connection to the xflop 1.5 full
> > > circle except for being hijacked in name.
> >
> > And how are we supposed to care once the game comes out for Xbox 360 and
> > we're sitting in our living rooms playing and enjoying the hell out of
it?
> > How?
> >
> > You're so dim and shortsighted, Bligmerk. You've never, ever been able
to
> > see the big picture. Let me help you out: The Xbox 360 is launching this
> > year. It will be a powerful console. It will have lots of games, some
OK,
> > some good, some fantastic. Gamers will buy it and play it and enjoy it.
> > That's the bottom line, and your terrified ramblings about devkits and
> > production schedules won't do a damn thing to change it.
> >
> > And then a year later, the PS3 will come out. We'll chuckle at how
little
> > resemblance Killzone 2 bears to the CGI video we saw a year earlier --
that
> > will be the PS3's "can render Toy Story in real time" albatross -- but
we'll
> > buy it and enjoy it also. Of course, that will be your first taste of
the
> > next generation that the rest of us have been enjoying for a year. Have
fun
> > playing your PS2 version of Ghost Recon 3 while X360 owners are playing
> > theirs.
> >
> > > Axis Animation has stated they provided the technical assets, the 3D
> > > models, the textures, the animations, to Guerilla Games for the
> > > Killzone 2 demo and they were "built to PS3 spec".
> >
> > Of course it was built to spec, because the specs are ludicrously
> > unrealistic. I don't mean the system specs themselves (though we'll
likely
> > see those quietly downgraded and features dropped over the next year or
so),
> > I mean how they'll translate into actual real-world performance.
> >
> > > Guerilla Games has
> > > said the Killzone 2 sequence was representative of game play.
> >
> > And I say I'm the King of France. Zut alors, oui oui!
> >
> > > There are all indications that the sequence shown was of a scripted
> > > scene running in real time on the PS3 devkit with that scripted scene
> > > screen captured to make a movie. A scripted scene running in real time
> > > on a devkit is not in-game action but it is not "prerendered" either.
> >
> > The Killzone movie did not ever run in real-time on any hardware other
than
> > the DVD player that played it back. It was pre-rendered CGI. You
actually
> > think a pair of 6800 Ultras in SLI can produce THAT level of visual
quality
> > in real time, with an utterly seamless, fluid framerate? Get your head
out
> > of your ass, you hopeless fanboy.
> >
> > Poor Bliggy. You're just setting yourself up for another humiliation
when
> > Killzone finally comes out and looks nothing like what was shown. Then
> > again, you did say that the first Killzone was "whispered to be like no
> > other game to this time" when in fact it was a dreary, derivative, 20
> > FPS-at-best mess. LOL, "whispered"? What a fruit.
> >
> > -Z-
>
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 1:48:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Maybe you ought to read a manufacturing book. Just because they have no
finished product doesn't mean they having nothing.

Does first article built, or quality built mean anything to you? I bet
you they have been building and testing versions of the 360 for the
past six months, and I bet those are near finished designs. How many
units do you think they can produce in a week or two once they are done
finalizing the design? Do you think they'll go to your 'round the
corner PCBA manufacturer that can whip out 5 assemblies per day?

Blig Merk wrote:
> This means two months to
> evaluate, assemble and ship shelf units. This means manufacturing half
> a million to a million units with less than two months to test actual
> hardware and have it go into production in parallel, at the same time.
> Ever heard of skipping the beta testing, let the consumer eat the early
> bugs?
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 3:37:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote in message
news:LrydnYJ6O4QskQffRVn-gg@giganews.com...
> Blig Merk wrote:

Zack "Pavlov" Man, right on que!

>> a real
>> time rendered sequence
>
> Nice oxymoron, boob.

What's conflicting about that statement? What's confusing you, son?
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 10:56:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Blig Merk wrote:
> i have no friends
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 4:52:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Blig Merk <blig_murk@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Sony has never said they were anywhere near finished and they aren't
> the ones pushing for a launch this year. Sony has stated over and over
> that the PS3 launch will be in early 2006. That launch is looking like
> 6 months after the xflop 1.5 full circle launch, not one year.

Considering that Sony will launch the PS3 in Japan first, and then in the
US some months later, it will be about a year after the Xbox360 launches -
in the US.

> The xflop 1.5 full circle is now admitting the final design isn't even
> finished yet (duh, they couldn't even show up with actual hardware at
> E3) and they don't expect to have final hardware until September. They
> are now saying a late November launch. This means two months to
> evaluate, assemble and ship shelf units. This means manufacturing half
> a million to a million units with less than two months to test actual
> hardware and have it go into production in parallel, at the same time.
> Ever heard of skipping the beta testing, let the consumer eat the early
> bugs?

Ugh, that sounds horrible. Late november is really really cutting it
close. Microsoft *NEEDS* to hit the 2005 holiday shopping season -
otherwise, it might as well wait until 2006 and launch a much more robust
product with a better library.

Shipping the beta may work for PC software (just look at the state of PC
gaming, for instance) but it doesn't fly for hardware, and definitely not
for a console. All I can say to Microsoft is "Good luck!" - they're going
to need it.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 5:04:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 Zackman <zackman@spamisevilearthling.net> wrote:

> The architecture closely matches that of the Xbox 360 and they're relatively
> cheap to build. Why do you think X360 developers have had devkits for almost
> a year while PS3 developers are only just getting them, or still don't even
> have them?

True, but remember - Microsoft is about 6 months from shipping. They
*SHOULD* have had something approaching real hardware - not a hacked up
Macintosh. That's fine if you're looking at shipping a year from now.
But 6 months? They should have had been able to demonstrate on
prototype-level hardware - IE. not a Mac. Something using the actual
processors and chips that you will find inside the final product. It
doesn't have to fit into the XBox360 case - heck, I've used hardware
that's been literally pinned in place on a piece of cardboard.

> What does it matter whether the devkit is perfectly in line with the final
> hardware or not? It's enough to give developers the building blocks they
> need to nearly complete a game, then tweak it when they have the final
> hardware. That's why they call them development kits. Get it? Given that
> some of the Xbox 360 *playable* demos looked pretty good (Condemned and Full
> Auto, for instance, and even Call of Duty 2 wasn't too bad), I can't wait to
> see how great they look on the fully powered final hardware.

They're 6 months out from ship. They still have to finish development,
tweak and debug it on the final hardware, get it approved by Microsoft,
get the packaging and docs together, etc. Then you have to factor in time
for the reviewers to play the game so they can write up a review. That
has to be done at least a month, maybe 2, in advance. So, developers
really only have 4 or 5 months left - and they still don't have real
hardware? Can you say "Panic"? Seems to me that Microsoft is crusing for
a scheduling nightmare of massive proportions. I pity the firm that is
banking on revenue from 360 titles this year...

> Guess what! They did the exact same thing with the first Xbox, which was
> only in the design stage for a little over a year at that point. Work began
> on the Xbox 360 design just after the first Xbox came out. I think they know
> a little more about the machine and the production process than some bitter
> old hick like you.

Xbox360 is considerably more complicated than Xbox. If I were Microsoft,
I'd be extremely nervous about getting the Xbox360 ready on time for this
year's holiday shopping season... Face it, this is Microsoft's best
chance to get a leg up on Sony. If they blow the launch, the 360 may
never recover.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 5:41:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Doug Jacobs wrote:

> True, but remember - Microsoft is about 6 months from shipping. They
> *SHOULD* have had something approaching real hardware - not a hacked
> up Macintosh. That's fine if you're looking at shipping a year from now.
> But 6 months? They should have had been able to demonstrate on
> prototype-level hardware - IE. not a Mac.

Any sort of prototype-level hardware would likely be a) in very short supply
and b) a lot less stable than the devkits, and so far all the developers
have had to work with and test on is devkits. If the developers don't have
access to prototype hardware, there'd be no reason to demo games on it since
the games would perform unpredictably at best.

> Then you have to factor in
> time for the reviewers to play the game so they can write up a review.

Somehow I don't think that's going to be a major factor affecting the launch
of a game. And reviewers often get review code just as it goes gold, which
means it's still a couple of weeks from retail.

> I pity the firm that
> is
> banking on revenue from 360 titles this year...

Why would anyone be banking on one month's worth of sales, and a month when
there are only likely to be less than a million Xbox 360s sold?

> If I were
> Microsoft,
> I'd be extremely nervous about getting the Xbox360 ready on time for
> this
> year's holiday shopping season.

I'm sure they know what's at stake. If they don't have the Xbox 360 in
stores by Thanksgiving (the single biggest shopping weekend of the year),
they've shot themselves in the foot. But given how long they've been working
on the 360 and how long developers have at least had devkits and specs, I
don't think it's quite as dire as you make it out to be.

-Z-
!