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Xbox 360 - Cost as a Factor

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May 31, 2005 8:08:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Imagine for a moment that you're an Xbox executive (insert joke here about
poor fashion sense).

Your last console took a serious bite out of Sony's dominant marketshare and
surpassed Nintendo - but you are still a distant second.

The launch of the Xbox 360 - arguably - is a make or break moment. One of
the key decisions before you is this: How much do you charge for the next
system?

I'm interested in what others here think - AND WHY.

Example:
The Xbox 360 should cost $299 for three reasons:

1) Xbox 360 Needs a Strong Launch
2) The Console Marketplace is already very Crowded
3) Sony Would Have More to Lose in a Price War

First, Xbox 360 needs a strong launch and will thus need to be priced
aggressively. If launch sales are weak, bad word of mouth will spread
quickly - "users saw no reason to upgrade;" "hardly a difference in
graphics;" "consumers are waiting to see what the other options are" - and
Xbox could see itself going the way of the other well-designed, but
ill-launched and poorly priced consoles before it. On the other hand, a
strong launch, just before the holiday season, could make Xbox the "it" item
of the season.

Aside from needing a strong launch, Xbox should recognize that this is an
incredibly crowded market. Many console owners don't feel the *need* to
upgrade. All three consoles are still churning out graphically-impressive,
great-gaming titles, witness PS2's God of War, Xbox's Halo 2, Chaos Theory
and Jade Empire and Gamecube's upcoming Zelda. While gamers will eventually
make the switch to a new system, the question is if they don't feel they
need to make the switch NOW then what will entice them? The answer is price.

Lastly, it's a strong strategic move against Sony. Sony invested a lot of
money in its partnership with IBM to come up with a "revolutionary" new
chip. Unfortunately for them, after all that R&D, their console turned out
to be the same speed as the Xbox 360 with less memory, leaving them to talk
about potential teraflops. Sony needs to pay for that investment and so
rumor has it that Sony wants to price their console at launch at possibly
$499.

Put simply, the last thing Sony wants right now is a continued price war
with Xbox. They need to recover their R&D costs somehow.

More about : xbox 360 cost factor

Anonymous
May 31, 2005 9:32:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

If I were a Microsoft Exec I'll be praying my new console grosses
dollar $1!

X box has been a comercial flop and any other business would have gone
out of business making it.
I'm sure that Microsoft are in for the long term and not be happy until
the thier opponents are a starbucks and parking malls. Then they will
charge what they like (do you reallly think Microsoft would have pulled
out the stops and gone to IBM if Sony had'nt anouced the Cell
processor).
Microsoft will charge what it can the first 6 months. (remember XBOX
came out at £300and people will pay it. To replace the console they
have now which they bought less than 2 years ago (not me, I'm on the
PS2 group for a reason). Ill wait until I see which way the wind blows,
and the price comes down, and the bugs get fixed. Halo3 - in less time
it took to develop Halo2 If it makes relase date I'd be supprised,
more supprised if it turns ut ot be any good

Only Time will tell, and for now its not saying.

sHALLOW
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 12:53:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Jacob" <simplyjacob@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:75OdnSYRXYi5WQHfRVn-qw@rcn.net...
>
> Imagine for a moment that you're an Xbox executive (insert joke here about
> poor fashion sense).
>
> Your last console took a serious bite out of Sony's dominant marketshare
> and surpassed Nintendo - but you are still a distant second.

I'm not a fanboy or anything, but I thought that the PS2 sold more units
than the original PS... I could be wrong about that, but if it's true, then
how can it be said that Microsoft affected Sony's market share at all?
Either way, I hope that all three consoles succeed... for our sake.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 12:53:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote

>> Imagine for a moment that you're an Xbox executive (insert joke here
>> about poor fashion sense).
>>
>> Your last console took a serious bite out of Sony's dominant marketshare
>> and surpassed Nintendo - but you are still a distant second.
>
> I'm not a fanboy or anything, but I thought that the PS2 sold more units
> than the original PS... I could be wrong about that, but if it's true,
> then how can it be said that Microsoft affected Sony's market share at
> all?

Market share isn't about past performances, but rather how many of the
systems sold are yours. Having XBox not only extended the market some, but
also diluted PS2's market share, you see?

> Either way, I hope that all three consoles succeed... for our sake.

I hope that they succeed, but that their new business models fail.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 1:12:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

blah blah blah blah

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 2:00:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Jacob" <simplyjacob@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:75OdnSYRXYi5WQHfRVn-qw@rcn.net...
>
> Imagine for a moment that you're an Xbox executive (insert joke here about
> poor fashion sense).
>
> Your last console took a serious bite out of Sony's dominant marketshare
> and surpassed Nintendo - but you are still a distant second.
>
> The launch of the Xbox 360 - arguably - is a make or break moment. One of
> the key decisions before you is this: How much do you charge for the next
> system?
>
> I'm interested in what others here think - AND WHY.
>
> Example:
> The Xbox 360 should cost $299 for three reasons:
>
> 1) Xbox 360 Needs a Strong Launch
> 2) The Console Marketplace is already very Crowded
> 3) Sony Would Have More to Lose in a Price War
>
> First, Xbox 360 needs a strong launch and will thus need to be priced
> aggressively. If launch sales are weak, bad word of mouth will spread
> quickly - "users saw no reason to upgrade;" "hardly a difference in
> graphics;" "consumers are waiting to see what the other options are" - and
> Xbox could see itself going the way of the other well-designed, but
> ill-launched and poorly priced consoles before it. On the other hand, a
> strong launch, just before the holiday season, could make Xbox the "it"
> item of the season.
>
> Aside from needing a strong launch, Xbox should recognize that this is an
> incredibly crowded market. Many console owners don't feel the *need* to
> upgrade. All three consoles are still churning out graphically-impressive,
> great-gaming titles, witness PS2's God of War, Xbox's Halo 2, Chaos Theory
> and Jade Empire and Gamecube's upcoming Zelda. While gamers will
> eventually make the switch to a new system, the question is if they don't
> feel they need to make the switch NOW then what will entice them? The
> answer is price.
>
> Lastly, it's a strong strategic move against Sony. Sony invested a lot of
> money in its partnership with IBM to come up with a "revolutionary" new
> chip. Unfortunately for them, after all that R&D, their console turned out
> to be the same speed as the Xbox 360 with less memory, leaving them to
> talk about potential teraflops. Sony needs to pay for that investment and
> so rumor has it that Sony wants to price their console at launch at
> possibly $499.
>
> Put simply, the last thing Sony wants right now is a continued price war
> with Xbox. They need to recover their R&D costs somehow.
>

The Xbox360 will almost surely be released at 349.99 or less. I'm guessing
299.99. I don't think we need to worry about the pricepoint of the 360. Not
to mention, it will probably be cut by $50 when the PS3 is released.

I think it would be foolish to think that Sony would EVER release their
playstation for 499.99. They will definitely drop hardware features and
scale it down to get it under 450 or 400, before they release a game console
at $500, in order to do battle with MS.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 2:00:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Mike B wrote:

> Not to mention, it will probably be cut by $50 when the
> PS3 is released.

That is correct, I heard that Microsoft will drop the price of the 360 and
release Halo 3 at the same time. :) 
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 2:13:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

XBox 360 will probably be $299, but will be sold in outrageously priced
bundles like the first XBox was. (sigh)

Jonah Falcon
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 2:56:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In alt.games.video.xbox Jacob <simplyjacob@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I'm interested in what others here think - AND WHY.

First off, I wouldn't call ~7:1 worldwide sales taking a "big bite" out of
Sony. XBox did somewhat respectibly in North America, but that's enough.

However, I do agree Microsoft needs to be a lot more aggressive this time
out. I feel they had a few openings where they could have struck at Sony
and didn't - instead they simply followed Sony's lead. That's not how you
become a market leader.

For this reason, I don't think they can release Xbox360 for $300 - $350
max. More than that, and you sort of pass a psychological step for most
people as to how much they're willing to spend on a casual purchase. $400
and up is considered a major purchase for most folks - something they have
to discuss with their spouse, maybe even set aside money for a few months
to afford.

And reprice the games to $50. I know that we're talking about games that
will be using "cutting edge" technology here, but very very few console
games are worth $60. $50 is even pushing it in my mind... About the only
games I've spent that much for have all been RPGs. They should leave the
price at $50, and when PS3 comes out, they should start aggressively
releasing 'best hit' titles at $20.

Microsoft needs to start the hype, NOW. And I'm not talking about that
pathetic MTV thing. I'm talking about addressing the gamer market on its
own terms. Mainly, GAMES, GRAPHICS, and GOODIES.

GAMES - Give us hints of what's to come. The fact that Square Enix is
going to be developing for a console OTHER THAN Sony is HUGE news for
Microsoft. Halo3 of course is huge news too. Start advertising what the
console will be able to play, NOW.

GRAPHICS - Can they do commercials in HD yet? This would be a great way
for Microsoft to captialize on one of their strengths while precisely
targetting their market. Produce a HD and non-HD version of the 360
commercials. Heck, do a 10 minute infomercial about 360 and sell it to
the HD networks - they're starved for content right now, and Microsoft has
a huge warchest to use.

GOODIES - XBox Live was undoubtedly one of the XBox's greatest strengths.
Microsoft should show their continual support of this feature, as well as
announcing their XBox Live Silver service which will be free on a limited
basis. This is a huge hit against Sony, whose online games are mainly
free, but lacks the overall community that Live provides. I don't play
online games mainly due to the price, but would be willing to at least try
a few with Silver - who knows? Maybe I'll find a game worth switching
over to the full Live service for? Microsoft should present each feature
as a reason to buy the 360 - even if it's something that the PS3 will have
as well. 360 will play DVD movies - who cares that the PS3 will too, HYPE
IT. 360 will play XBox games - HYPE IT. 360 will have a (optional?)
HD(?) - HYPE IT.

Give people a reason to get excited about the 360. From what I've seen
from Sony, they really don't have something akin to MGS2 this time
around. Microsoft needs to strike now, strike hard, and strike often.
They have to totally dominate this holiday. Otherwise, the PS3 will come
out, and at best, it'll be a level playing field. At worst, people who
had a PS2 will just blindly buy a PS3 and Microsoft will once again be a
distant second. Microsoft must strive to make it a no-brainer to choose a
Xbox360 - or at the very least - make it very very difficult for people to
choose. Only then, will Microsoft have a good shot at really taking a big
bite out of Sony.
June 1, 2005 3:03:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

i for one will be getting one as soon as its available, forget the PS3 i
think the Xbox 360 looks more powerfull by far


"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
news:429cdbac$0$90627$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>> Imagine for a moment that you're an Xbox executive (insert joke here
>>> about poor fashion sense).
>>>
>>> Your last console took a serious bite out of Sony's dominant marketshare
>>> and surpassed Nintendo - but you are still a distant second.
>>
>> I'm not a fanboy or anything, but I thought that the PS2 sold more units
>> than the original PS... I could be wrong about that, but if it's true,
>> then how can it be said that Microsoft affected Sony's market share at
>> all?
>
> Market share isn't about past performances, but rather how many of the
> systems sold are yours. Having XBox not only extended the market some,
> but also diluted PS2's market share, you see?
>
>> Either way, I hope that all three consoles succeed... for our sake.
>
> I hope that they succeed, but that their new business models fail.
>
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 5:20:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
news:429cdbac$0$90627$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>> Imagine for a moment that you're an Xbox executive (insert joke here
>>> about poor fashion sense).
>>>
>>> Your last console took a serious bite out of Sony's dominant marketshare
>>> and surpassed Nintendo - but you are still a distant second.
>>
>> I'm not a fanboy or anything, but I thought that the PS2 sold more units
>> than the original PS... I could be wrong about that, but if it's true,
>> then how can it be said that Microsoft affected Sony's market share at
>> all?
>
> Market share isn't about past performances, but rather how many of the
> systems sold are yours. Having XBox not only extended the market some,
> but also diluted PS2's market share, you see?

Yeah, that's makes sense.

>
>> Either way, I hope that all three consoles succeed... for our sake.
>
> I hope that they succeed, but that their new business models fail.
>
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 9:10:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

On Tue, 31 May 2005 16:08:02 -0400, "Jacob" <simplyjacob@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>Imagine for a moment that you're an Xbox executive (insert joke here about
>poor fashion sense).
>
>Your last console took a serious bite out of Sony's dominant marketshare and
>surpassed Nintendo - but you are still a distant second.
>
>The launch of the Xbox 360 - arguably - is a make or break moment. One of
>the key decisions before you is this: How much do you charge for the next
>system?
>
>I'm interested in what others here think - AND WHY.
>
>Example:
>The Xbox 360 should cost $299 for three reasons:
>
>1) Xbox 360 Needs a Strong Launch
>2) The Console Marketplace is already very Crowded
>3) Sony Would Have More to Lose in a Price War
>
>First, Xbox 360 needs a strong launch and will thus need to be priced
>aggressively. If launch sales are weak, bad word of mouth will spread
>quickly - "users saw no reason to upgrade;" "hardly a difference in
>graphics;" "consumers are waiting to see what the other options are" - and
>Xbox could see itself going the way of the other well-designed, but
>ill-launched and poorly priced consoles before it. On the other hand, a
>strong launch, just before the holiday season, could make Xbox the "it" item
>of the season.
>

I don't disagree that MS will launch the 360 at $299, but I wouldn't
discount the fact that Microsoft could also face strong pricing
pressure. In an attempt to build quick market share, MS may be
hesitant to price the 360 at a more reasonable loss level of $349 or
even $399. If Sony launches early in the US, say April of next year,
MS may have to counter by lowering the price even further.

>Aside from needing a strong launch, Xbox should recognize that this is an
>incredibly crowded market. Many console owners don't feel the *need* to
>upgrade. All three consoles are still churning out graphically-impressive,
>great-gaming titles, witness PS2's God of War, Xbox's Halo 2, Chaos Theory
>and Jade Empire and Gamecube's upcoming Zelda. While gamers will eventually
>make the switch to a new system, the question is if they don't feel they
>need to make the switch NOW then what will entice them? The answer is price.
>

Price is certainly an important factor but in the face of a potential
$99 PS2, MS needs some very good launch software to sway the fence
sitters.


>Lastly, it's a strong strategic move against Sony. Sony invested a lot of
>money in its partnership with IBM to come up with a "revolutionary" new
>chip. Unfortunately for them, after all that R&D, their console turned out
>to be the same speed as the Xbox 360 with less memory, leaving them to talk
>about potential teraflops. Sony needs to pay for that investment and so
>rumor has it that Sony wants to price their console at launch at possibly
>$499.


>Put simply, the last thing Sony wants right now is a continued price war
>with Xbox. They need to recover their R&D costs somehow.
>

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Sony's R&D investment. The fact
that their CPU's share similar clock speeds doesn't mean they're
equivalent. I think both systems will be very similar but I wouldn't
be surprised if the PS3 was the stronger system overall.

One very big thing that Sony has going for them that Microsoft cant
match is the fact that Sony owns the fabs that will produce many of
the crucial components for the PS3. This probably allows them to
realize an upfront cost savings and it also allows them to be more
aggressive with die shrinks or component integration.

The PStwo, besides having a much smaller foot print also has some
substantial chip integration that allows Sony to significantly reduce
their hardware costs. Sony is making a nice profit on the PStwo
while Microsoft is still losing money on the xbox, from what I've
read.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 9:14:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

On Tue, 31 May 2005 17:22:12 -0600, "Hank the Rapper"
<xflopgoon@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:

>Mike B wrote:
>
>> Not to mention, it will probably be cut by $50 when the
>> PS3 is released.
>
>That is correct, I heard that Microsoft will drop the price of the 360 and
>release Halo 3 at the same time. :) 
>

Unless Sony pulls a fast one and launches first in the US. It's
unlikey Bungie will have Halo 3 ready by April or May.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 9:27:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

On 31 May 2005 22:13:11 -0700, "Jonah Falcon"
<jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote:

>XBox 360 will probably be $299, but will be sold in outrageously priced
>bundles like the first XBox was. (sigh)
>
>Jonah Falcon

I just put $50 down yesterday at Gamestop to reserve a 360 and they
told me they will not force me to buy a bundle.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 9:39:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Imperium" <frankmelo@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:8jhq91h94u91qjv4ptuv4dkg8a7h1sg8qg@4ax.com...
> On 31 May 2005 22:13:11 -0700, "Jonah Falcon"
> <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>XBox 360 will probably be $299, but will be sold in outrageously priced
>>bundles like the first XBox was. (sigh)
>>
>>Jonah Falcon
>
> I just put $50 down yesterday at Gamestop to reserve a 360 and they
> told me they will not force me to buy a bundle.

Good to hear.

Jonah Falcon
June 1, 2005 11:37:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

are you referring to the e-content "marketplace" overkill make-a-buck
scheme?
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 12:15:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"steven" <noone@email.com> wrote in message
news:429cdf80$0$575$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
>i for one will be getting one as soon as its available, forget the PS3 i
>think the Xbox 360 looks more powerfull by far

*rolls-eyes*
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 2:30:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote

>>> I'm not a fanboy or anything, but I thought that the PS2 sold more units
>>> than the original PS... I could be wrong about that, but if it's true,
>>> then how can it be said that Microsoft affected Sony's market share at
>>> all?
>>
>> Market share isn't about past performances, but rather how many of the
>> systems sold are yours. Having XBox not only extended the market some,
>> but also diluted PS2's market share, you see?
>
> Yeah, that's makes sense.

BTW, I found some numbers, although rough.

The PSX sold 100,000,000 of the total 142,890,000 systems sold, for 70% of
the market. Of the PS2, 81,390,000 of 129,920,000 for 63% of the market.
So, the competition increased from 42,980,000 to 48,530,000. Adjusted to
total, it's 53,374,782, so the projected competition increased 24% where as
Sony didn't slip much at all, if any (slightly stale numbers), but the
competition increased sales and diluted the market share of Sony.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 3:28:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

theOne wrote:

> are you referring to the e-content "marketplace" overkill make-a-buck
> scheme?

Yes he is, which is about as relevant and important in the overall sceheme
of things as the font used in the new logo. Some people will make use of it
the marketplace features, most people won't. It's there for those who want
it. The rest of us will just play games.

I feel genuinely bad for Sony fanboys. I get to spend an entire year playing
next-gen console games on Xbox 360 before I get my PS3 on launch day. But
because of some borderline psychotic obsession with a specific brand of
video game console, guys (and I use the term loosely) like Fred and Bliggy
will deny themselves access to the broadest possible gaming experience, just
because they feel some kind of loyalty to a company that doesn't even know
they exist.

Weird. But oh well.

-Z-
June 1, 2005 5:18:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

To Borderline Psychotic Xbox Fan boy (Zackman):
You are wrong. In section a, paragraph f, pleae take note at some cross
comparison pie charts that reflect Xbox owners with Xbox live and those
without. Men. After reviewing these charts, I think we can clearly
forecast (based on the aforementioned numbers from the line three pie
charts) marketplace as an over bloated and overpriced extension of
Xbox Live for the upcoming console that nonetheless turns out a
surprisingly decent cost/benefit relationship to MS. Imagine all the
kids now. Being able to use mom and dad's credit card to purchase a new
armored body suit for Master Chief, which consequentially costs as much
as a new armored body suit. Big sales and low cost to MS to offer
these features. Likely even, that you'll be the first person
"borrowing" mom's credit card junior.

How dare you derogate the font used on the new logo? There are
designers that would have your head for lesser things young man.

Now please do not disturb me any further. I must get back to my nap.
June 1, 2005 5:57:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Leon,
Such low numbers for the Jag in Japan. Woud have thought it would have
sold alot more there.
But that doesn't detract (only weight) from the fact that......
You're a freakin' guru of old school systems! Your myriad of game
systems may serenade these numbers to you (with their combined power of
course) but do they look as pretty and neat as this :) 

http://tinyurl.com/bhtal

http://tinyurl.com/7r877


I'm Rick JAMES BEYOTCH!
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 6:18:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Fred Liken wrote:
> "theOne" <cmtipton@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> > To Borderline Psychotic Xbox Fan boy (Zackman):
> > You are wrong. In section a, paragraph f, pleae take note at some cross
> > comparison pie charts that reflect Xbox owners with Xbox live and those
> > without. Men. After reviewing these charts, I think we can clearly
> > forecast (based on the aforementioned numbers from the line three pie
> > charts) marketplace as an over bloated and overpriced extension of
> > Xbox Live for the upcoming console that nonetheless turns out a
> > surprisingly decent cost/benefit relationship to MS. Imagine all the
> > kids now. Being able to use mom and dad's credit card to purchase a new
> > armored body suit for Master Chief, which consequentially costs as much
> > as a new armored body suit. Big sales and low cost to MS to offer
> > these features. Likely even, that you'll be the first person
> > "borrowing" mom's credit card junior.
> >
> > How dare you derogate the font used on the new logo? There are
> > designers that would have your head for lesser things young man.
> >
> > Now please do not disturb me any further. I must get back to my nap.
>
> Ooooooo...... That was hard to watch, Zack getting bitch slapped so
> blatantly in the middle of all these people... There ought to be a law...
> OUCH!
>
> Oh well, at least we can count on Zack and his amazing trained oblivion
> skills to let him run his dribble trap like the good little pavlov he is.

You two should get a room.
June 1, 2005 6:24:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

wanna join Robert? I know you secretly have lucid dreams about your
tonsils playing slapstick with the cock of an Xbox Pirate :)  Well, hear
I am baby :)  ARRRRGGHHHH.....have ya seen my cherry rig? shiver me
timbers......
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 6:44:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote

> theOne wrote:
>
>> are you referring to the e-content "marketplace" overkill make-a-buck
>> scheme?
>
> Yes he is, which is about as relevant and important in the overall sceheme
> of things as the font used in the new logo. Some people will make use of
> it the marketplace features, most people won't. It's there for those who
> want it. The rest of us will just play games.
>
> I feel genuinely bad for Sony fanboys. I get to spend an entire year
> playing next-gen console games on Xbox 360 before I get my PS3 on launch
> day. But because of some borderline psychotic obsession with a specific
> brand of video game console,

I noticed you didn't have Nintendo in that list. Guess you'll be missing
out on the Nintendo games because of your borderline psychotic silliness?

> guys (and I use the term loosely) like Fred and Bliggy will deny
> themselves access to the broadest possible gaming experience,

LOL! Yes, I'm denying myself like a good little Buddhist. lol.

> just because they feel some kind of loyalty to a company that doesn't even
> know they exist.

What made you think I wasn't going to get an XBox2? Are you that stupid
that you can only think in black and white? Hardly surprising. If the XBox
2 has a game that I want, I'll get it. That's just me though, I'm a gamer,
not a system zealot that's going to run out and buy something on launch day
even though I don't know what games will be out then and what quality those
launch games will be, but pay a huge premium to do so.

You're a fool.

> Weird. But oh well.

lol I love your lashing out at me. Classic nonsense.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 7:25:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"theOne" <cmtipton@gmail.com> wrote in message

> To Borderline Psychotic Xbox Fan boy (Zackman):
> You are wrong. In section a, paragraph f, pleae take note at some cross
> comparison pie charts that reflect Xbox owners with Xbox live and those
> without. Men. After reviewing these charts, I think we can clearly
> forecast (based on the aforementioned numbers from the line three pie
> charts) marketplace as an over bloated and overpriced extension of
> Xbox Live for the upcoming console that nonetheless turns out a
> surprisingly decent cost/benefit relationship to MS. Imagine all the
> kids now. Being able to use mom and dad's credit card to purchase a new
> armored body suit for Master Chief, which consequentially costs as much
> as a new armored body suit. Big sales and low cost to MS to offer
> these features. Likely even, that you'll be the first person
> "borrowing" mom's credit card junior.
>
> How dare you derogate the font used on the new logo? There are
> designers that would have your head for lesser things young man.
>
> Now please do not disturb me any further. I must get back to my nap.

Ooooooo...... That was hard to watch, Zack getting bitch slapped so
blatantly in the middle of all these people... There ought to be a law...
OUCH!

Oh well, at least we can count on Zack and his amazing trained oblivion
skills to let him run his dribble trap like the good little pavlov he is.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 9:50:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in
news:429dd3c5$0$90608$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com:

> "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>>> I'm not a fanboy or anything, but I thought that the PS2 sold more
>>>> units than the original PS... I could be wrong about that, but if
>>>> it's true, then how can it be said that Microsoft affected Sony's
>>>> market share at all?
>>>
>>> Market share isn't about past performances, but rather how many of
>>> the systems sold are yours. Having XBox not only extended the
>>> market some, but also diluted PS2's market share, you see?
>>
>> Yeah, that's makes sense.
>
> BTW, I found some numbers, although rough.
>
> The PSX sold 100,000,000 of the total 142,890,000 systems sold, for
> 70% of the market. Of the PS2, 81,390,000 of 129,920,000 for 63% of
> the market. So, the competition increased from 42,980,000 to
> 48,530,000. Adjusted to total, it's 53,374,782, so the projected
> competition increased 24% where as Sony didn't slip much at all, if
> any (slightly stale numbers), but the competition increased sales and
> diluted the market share of Sony.

Can I ask where you got the numbers for the non-PS2 systems for this
generation? I got these from a forum post at pcvsconsole.com, they are
the numbers as of the end of 2004:

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=8498&pa...

---

North America
PlayStation 2 - 32.86 million
Xbox - 13.2 million
GameCube - 10.11 million

Japan / Asia
PlayStation 2 - 19.47 million
Xbox - 1.7 million
GameCube - 3.78 million

Europe / PAL
PlayStation 2 - 29.06 million
Xbox - 5.0 million
GameCube - 4.13 million

Worldwide
PlayStation 2 - 81.39 million
Xbox - 19.9 million
GameCube - 18.03 million


---

Last I read was that MS was expecting to have shipped (not sold) 22
million consoles worldwide by June 2005
(http://www.gamesindustry.biz/press_release.php?aid=6520), so the 19.9
million figure for end of 2004 sounds alright, and the Gamecube numbers
look fine. The PS2 number matches yours. From those numbers, it looks
like Sony has roughly 68% of the market as of the end of 2004.

On top of this, the Xbox is now effectively discontinued due to the
nvidia announcement. So the number of Xbox units sold will probably not
exceed 22 million or so, and the PS2 will likely continue to sell
reasonably well for another two years or so, assuming it follows the same
sales pattern as the PSOne as it has been doing. Therefore, Sony's
market share for this generation will only go up from this point on,
unless GC sales really pick up, and Sony will probably end the generation
at ~70% or more again.

It looks like Microsoft took Sega's former share of the console market,
and took a big bite out of Nintendo's market share, more than anything
else. (The Saturn and N64 sold roughly 10 million and 30 million,
respectively)

Interestingly, it looks like this generation will have only sold as much
(or possibly less than) as the previous generation, so no real growth...
I guess you could include the Dreamcast in this generation's sales to
inflate it, but then you'd also have to throw in Jaguar and 3DO sales for
the last generation. A 3 best selling systems vs. 3 best selling systems
comparison is easier.

-bwahhhhhhh
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 9:50:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"bwahhhh" <dr.eclipse@g*ee*mail.com> wrote in message
news:jzmne.6193$Hj.3641@lakeread02...
> "Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in
> news:429dd3c5$0$90608$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com:
>
>> "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote
>>
>>>>> I'm not a fanboy or anything, but I thought that the PS2 sold more
>>>>> units than the original PS... I could be wrong about that, but if
>>>>> it's true, then how can it be said that Microsoft affected Sony's
>>>>> market share at all?
>>>>
>>>> Market share isn't about past performances, but rather how many of
>>>> the systems sold are yours. Having XBox not only extended the
>>>> market some, but also diluted PS2's market share, you see?
>>>
>>> Yeah, that's makes sense.
>>
>> BTW, I found some numbers, although rough.
>>
>> The PSX sold 100,000,000 of the total 142,890,000 systems sold, for
>> 70% of the market. Of the PS2, 81,390,000 of 129,920,000 for 63% of
>> the market. So, the competition increased from 42,980,000 to
>> 48,530,000. Adjusted to total, it's 53,374,782, so the projected
>> competition increased 24% where as Sony didn't slip much at all, if
>> any (slightly stale numbers), but the competition increased sales and
>> diluted the market share of Sony.
>
> Can I ask where you got the numbers for the non-PS2 systems for this
> generation? I got these from a forum post at pcvsconsole.com, they are
> the numbers as of the end of 2004:
>
> http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=8498&pa...

> Worldwide
> PlayStation 2 - 81.39 million
> Xbox - 19.9 million
> GameCube - 18.03 million

That's about right, but there's the 10million Dreamcasts not in that
listing.

81.39 + 19.9 + 18.03 + 10 is 129.32million, roughly the same number, no?

> Last I read was that MS was expecting to have shipped (not sold) 22
> million consoles worldwide by June 2005
> (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/press_release.php?aid=6520), so the 19.9
> million figure for end of 2004 sounds alright, and the Gamecube numbers
> look fine. The PS2 number matches yours. From those numbers, it looks
> like Sony has roughly 68% of the market as of the end of 2004.

Yes, without the DC it is down to 68% from 70%.

> On top of this, the Xbox is now effectively discontinued due to the
> nvidia announcement. So the number of Xbox units sold will probably not
> exceed 22 million or so, and the PS2 will likely continue to sell
> reasonably well for another two years or so, assuming it follows the same
> sales pattern as the PSOne as it has been doing. Therefore, Sony's
> market share for this generation will only go up from this point on,
> unless GC sales really pick up, and Sony will probably end the generation
> at ~70% or more again.

Perhaps. We'll see.

> It looks like Microsoft took Sega's former share of the console market,
> and took a big bite out of Nintendo's market share, more than anything
> else. (The Saturn and N64 sold roughly 10 million and 30 million,
> respectively)

Saturn was under 10million, but close and the N64 was about 32.9 million,
IIRC.

> Interestingly, it looks like this generation will have only sold as much
> (or possibly less than) as the previous generation, so no real growth...
> I guess you could include the Dreamcast in this generation's sales to
> inflate it, but then you'd also have to throw in Jaguar and 3DO sales for
> the last generation.

The 3DO was, but the Jag wasn't. It sold under 10k, so it hardly would
affect the percentage which is rounded. It is also debatable as to which
generation it was in, the PSX, N64, and the ilk or the SNES, SegaCD, etc.

> A 3 best selling systems vs. 3 best selling systems
> comparison is easier.

Easier, but not complete.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 10:30:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Fred Liken wrote:

> I noticed you didn't have Nintendo in that list. Guess you'll be
> missing out on the Nintendo games because of your borderline
> psychotic silliness?

If the Revolution doesn't turn out to be the next Virtual Boy, I'll probably
get one just to play next-gen Zelda and... well, maybe Metroid... yep,
that's about it. I love Nintendo, but they've just about niched themselves
right out of the business.

> If the XBox 2 has a game that I want, I'll get it.

Won't it burn your skin to touch it, like a crucifix to a vampire?

> That's just me though, I'm a gamer, not a system zealot that's going
> to run out and buy something on launch day even though I don't know
> what games will be out then and what quality those launch games will
> be, but pay a huge premium to do so.

And I'm always anxious to see where gaming is going next, so I like to be on
the ground floor of each new generation. Plus I have a large disposable
income, so $300 on a game machine doesn't mean anything. To each his own.

> lol I love your lashing out at me. Classic nonsense.

Lashing out? Dude, you dog me worse than I dog Bligmerk. Except whereas
Bligmerk is a raving loon who's always good for a laugh, you're just an
illiterate twat. I seriously don't even read most of your posts, because you
just don't matter that much. Try not to be too hurt ok? I'll expect your
reply in the next 10 min or so, there's a good lapdog.

-Z-
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 10:31:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

Fred Liken wrote:

> Ooooooo...... That was hard to watch, Zack getting bitch slapped so
> blatantly in the middle of all these people... There ought to be a
> law... OUCH!

Wow, that went sailing right over your head, didn't it?

-Z-
June 1, 2005 10:50:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

this is on my tv; emulators playing off the xbox. There are many
emulators with flaws but you'd be hard pressed to find a single one
from the collection you see in my screenshot. I don't keep emulators on
the box that are shaky (i.e. N64). These puppies are great. You can do
a whole slew of stuff, play againts people on the net, save the game
whereever you want and a bunch of graphic filters (SuperSai,
Anisotropic etc.). I can't honestly tell you I see a difference
between any of them though. Anyways MAME (with the games I have
anyways), NES, SNES, Neo Geo, Sega, Genesis, 32x, and sega cd work
flawlessly on the xbox with really cool front ends.

Really when you think about it, no original system plays games perfect.
You won't be blowing and loading game cartridges on my NES emulator,
that's for sure, But I hardly play any of it anymore, just for
nostalgia. Perhaps I'll incorporate more.

FYI, you can see a few more screenshots (and a little more brief
insight on some of the xbox softwre out there) on my new school site.

http://www.lc.capellauniversity.edu/~159293/

Enjoy Fweind :) 
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 12:30:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
news:429e12b0$0$73642$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...


> > Interestingly, it looks like this generation will have only sold as much
> > (or possibly less than) as the previous generation, so no real growth...
> > I guess you could include the Dreamcast in this generation's sales to
> > inflate it, but then you'd also have to throw in Jaguar and 3DO sales
for
> > the last generation.
>
> The 3DO was, but the Jag wasn't. It sold under 10k, so it hardly would
> affect the percentage which is rounded. It is also debatable as to which
> generation it was in, the PSX, N64, and the ilk or the SNES, SegaCD, etc.
>
> > A 3 best selling systems vs. 3 best selling systems
> > comparison is easier.
>
> Easier, but not complete.


Those numbers are all roughly correct, but you haven't taken into account
that this generation is far from over. The PS1 numbers you have include
millions of units sold after the launch of the PS2. The PS2 will sell
millions this year, as will the Gamecube and Xbox (even with its successor
arriving). This generation doesn't end this year, far from it, and the year
isn't even close to over. So it will end up surpassing last gen by quite a
bit.
By the way, Fred, the Jag sold nearly 10k in Japan. Worldwide it sold
somewhere between 350k and 500k.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 12:30:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Leon Dexter" <leondexterNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote

>> > Interestingly, it looks like this generation will have only sold as
>> > much
>> > (or possibly less than) as the previous generation, so no real
>> > growth...
>> > I guess you could include the Dreamcast in this generation's sales to
>> > inflate it, but then you'd also have to throw in Jaguar and 3DO sales
> for
>> > the last generation.
>>
>> The 3DO was, but the Jag wasn't. It sold under 10k, so it hardly would
>> affect the percentage which is rounded. It is also debatable as to which
>> generation it was in, the PSX, N64, and the ilk or the SNES, SegaCD, etc.
>>
>> > A 3 best selling systems vs. 3 best selling systems
>> > comparison is easier.
>>
>> Easier, but not complete.
>
> Those numbers are all roughly correct, but you haven't taken into account
> that this generation is far from over.

Actually, I did, but that's besides the point. It was a discussion of what
it is today and how the market share could be lost even if you sold more
consoles than last round, and just went from there.

> The PS1 numbers you have include
> millions of units sold after the launch of the PS2. The PS2 will sell
> millions this year, as will the Gamecube and Xbox (even with its successor
> arriving). This generation doesn't end this year, far from it,

The numbers were stale, true. I stated that much.

> and the year
> isn't even close to over. So it will end up surpassing last gen by quite
> a
> bit.

Yeah, that was the original point that was made. Did you read the thread?

> By the way, Fred, the Jag sold nearly 10k in Japan. Worldwide it sold
> somewhere between 350k and 500k.

Interesting. Do you have a link to those numbers? I don't, obviously,
since mine was so far off. None the less, that would be in the SNES gen,
anyways.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 12:42:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in
news:429e12b0$0$73642$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com:

<snip>

>> Interestingly, it looks like this generation will have only sold as
>> much (or possibly less than) as the previous generation, so no real
>> growth... I guess you could include the Dreamcast in this
>> generation's sales to inflate it, but then you'd also have to throw
>> in Jaguar and 3DO sales for the last generation.
>
> The 3DO was, but the Jag wasn't. It sold under 10k, so it hardly
> would affect the percentage which is rounded. It is also debatable as
> to which generation it was in, the PSX, N64, and the ilk or the SNES,
> SegaCD, etc.

Really the same goes for the Dreamcast, since it was discontinued before
either the PSOne or N64 were. It was also discontinued before the GC and
Xbox were even released, so while I loved my DC and technologically I
consider it to belong in the same class as the PS2/Xbox/GC, it's hard to
argue that it really belonged sales-wise when it only got to compete with
the PS2 for one year and not at all with the Xbox and GC... most of the
Dreamcasts sold were sold before the PS2 was even released.


>> A 3 best selling systems vs. 3 best selling systems
>> comparison is easier.
>
> Easier, but not complete.

Just about complete, I'd say. I think that because the Dreamcast was
discontinued so early and all Sega support went to other consoles, that
nearly everyone who bought a DC ended up buying either the PS2, Xbox, or
GC. Therefore it should not be counted when analyzing whether the market
actually expanded or not this generation, or when analyzing whether
Nintendo or Sony's market presence was diluted or not, since it never
really competed with the PS2 and GC on store shelves to begin with.

-bwahhhhhhh
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 12:47:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

bwahhhh <dr.eclipse@g*ee*mail.com> wrote in
news:A4pne.6209$Hj.4495@lakeread02:

> Just about complete, I'd say. I think that because the Dreamcast was
> discontinued so early and all Sega support went to other consoles,
> that nearly everyone who bought a DC ended up buying either the PS2,
> Xbox, or GC. Therefore it should not be counted when analyzing whether
> the market actually expanded or not this generation, or when analyzing
> whether Nintendo or Sony's market presence was diluted or not, since
> it never really competed with the PS2 and GC on store shelves to begin
> with.

Just as a note, I don't mean "never" literally... it really only competed
on shelves for 5 or 6 months, outside of Japan, from November 2001 (PS2
launch in US) to Spring 2001.
June 2, 2005 2:05:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

In article <k72dnd008pWUbQDfRVn-rg@giganews.com>,
"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote:

> I feel genuinely bad for Sony fanboys. I get to spend an entire year playing
> next-gen console games on Xbox 360 before I get my PS3 on launch day. But
> because of some borderline psychotic obsession with a specific brand of
> video game console, guys (and I use the term loosely) like Fred and Bliggy
> will deny themselves access to the broadest possible gaming experience, just
> because they feel some kind of loyalty to a company that doesn't even know
> they exist.

It's not only fanboys who would wait.

Some people only have money and time for one console.

So they may decide to wait to see how the consoles and games shake out
instead of jumping at the first one.

They could buy the X360, see if PS3 interests them and either keep or
sell the X360 if the PS3 interests them. But that is a big hassle.

There will be good gaming on current gen consoles for awhile, which may
not be a bad option for those without HDTVs yet.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 4:01:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
news:429e1eb0$0$73650$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...

So it will end up surpassing last gen by quite
> > a
> > bit.
>
> Yeah, that was the original point that was made. Did you read the thread?

Yeah, that's why I replied. The numbers you guys had didn't show that very
well without projecting a bit.


> > By the way, Fred, the Jag sold nearly 10k in Japan. Worldwide it sold
> > somewhere between 350k and 500k.
>
> Interesting. Do you have a link to those numbers? I don't, obviously,
> since mine was so far off. None the less, that would be in the SNES gen,
> anyways.

What generation it belongs in is debatable--it was trying to be the
beginning of the next gen, it just failed miserably. As for a link, I read
that in a magazine back in the day (wasn't much of an internet then), but
here's a page that claims that Tempest 2000 for the Jag sold 350,000 copies
(I remember reading that they _produced_ that many, not sold them--that
would be one hell of a tie ratio):

http://www.heartbone.com/comphist/Atari.htm

And here's another that claims "the german mag 'Megafun' says that 350000
Jaguars were sold in the USA and
50000 in Europe". That's certainly not where I read it, but there you go.

http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/08/0015.php

The 10k number for Japan, I can't prove, just know I read it somewhere, but
I do have it in print somewhere in my Next Generation magazine collection,
that the Jag sold ~1,000 units at launch in Japan, so it's not hard to
believe it would reach 10 someday. It might be in Next Gen that I read the
500,000 estimate, but I don't have any way of finding that without reading
every page of every issue...
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 4:06:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"theOne" <cmtipton@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1117659450.521393.254060@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Leon,
> Such low numbers for the Jag in Japan. Woud have thought it would have
> sold alot more there.
> But that doesn't detract (only weight) from the fact that......
> You're a freakin' guru of old school systems! Your myriad of game
> systems may serenade these numbers to you (with their combined power of
> course) but do they look as pretty and neat as this :) 
>
> http://tinyurl.com/bhtal
>
> http://tinyurl.com/7r877


About the Jag--nah, it was an American system. They're xenophobic about
electronics, believing (with some reason) that they make better stuff. And
Atari didn't exactly have financial clout--they were poorer than Sega when
the Jag arrived, and trying to sell it killed them.
About your links---thanks. I've never seen that interface. I have PC
emulators for loads of stuff, but no, none of them has a cool interface. I
prefer to play on the real system if I can--no emulator is perfect. Some of
them have cool features, though, like ZSNES, which has a graphical effect
that almost looks like cel-shading. Very nice.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 3:40:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"bwahhhh" <dr.eclipse@g*ee*mail.com> wrote in message
news:A4pne.6209$Hj.4495@lakeread02...

>>> Interestingly, it looks like this generation will have only sold as
>>> much (or possibly less than) as the previous generation, so no real
>>> growth... I guess you could include the Dreamcast in this
>>> generation's sales to inflate it, but then you'd also have to throw
>>> in Jaguar and 3DO sales for the last generation.
>>
>> The 3DO was, but the Jag wasn't. It sold under 10k, so it hardly
>> would affect the percentage which is rounded. It is also debatable as
>> to which generation it was in, the PSX, N64, and the ilk or the SNES,
>> SegaCD, etc.
>
> Really the same goes for the Dreamcast, since it was discontinued before
> either the PSOne or N64 were.

The DC was the next generation Sega machine. Saturn was their PSX/N64
offering.

>>> A 3 best selling systems vs. 3 best selling systems
>>> comparison is easier.
>>
>> Easier, but not complete.
>
> Just about complete, I'd say. I think that because the Dreamcast was
> discontinued so early and all Sega support went to other consoles, that
> nearly everyone who bought a DC ended up buying either the PS2, Xbox, or
> GC.

That's moot. Many people buy multiple systems.

> Therefore it should not be counted when analyzing whether the market
> actually expanded or not this generation, or when analyzing whether
> Nintendo or Sony's market presence was diluted or not, since it never
> really competed with the PS2 and GC on store shelves to begin with.

Do what you will. I was just illustrating the ability. Could have used
apples and oranges and still made the point.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 3:43:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Leon Dexter" <leondexterNOSPAM@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6%rne.875

> And here's another that claims "the german mag 'Megafun' says that 350000
> Jaguars were sold in the USA and
> 50000 in Europe". That's certainly not where I read it, but there you go.
>
> http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/08/0015.php

Ok, that makes sense. The numbers for the Jag were off.

> The 10k number for Japan, I can't prove, just know I read it somewhere,
> but
> I do have it in print somewhere in my Next Generation magazine collection,
> that the Jag sold ~1,000 units at launch in Japan, so it's not hard to
> believe it would reach 10 someday. It might be in Next Gen that I read
> the
> 500,000 estimate, but I don't have any way of finding that without reading
> every page of every issue...

It's neither here nor there, just curious. :) 
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 3:43:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Robert P Holley" <holleyrp@delanet.com> wrote in message

> You two should get a room.

lol. You're jealous, I can see. :) 
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 6:35:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote

>> If the XBox 2 has a game that I want, I'll get it.
>
> Won't it burn your skin to touch it, like a crucifix to a vampire?

Not unless they've changed it since the XBox.

>> That's just me though, I'm a gamer, not a system zealot that's going
>> to run out and buy something on launch day even though I don't know
>> what games will be out then and what quality those launch games will
>> be, but pay a huge premium to do so.
>
> And I'm always anxious to see where gaming is going next, so I like to be
> on the ground floor of each new generation. Plus I have a large disposable
> income, so $300 on a game machine doesn't mean anything. To each his own.

I seriously doubt that money is well spent for you. You're probably a
Democrat.

> you're just an illiterate twat.

Huh? You're really hurting for something to flame me for, eh? lol. You
don't even make sense, lap dog.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 6:35:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote in message
news:rsadnS7nh-XOzgPfRVn-1Q@giganews.com...
> Fred Liken wrote:
>
>> Ooooooo...... That was hard to watch, Zack getting bitch slapped so
>> blatantly in the middle of all these people... There ought to be a
>> law... OUCH!
>
> Wow, that went sailing right over your head, didn't it?

lol. You're very bad at this.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 9:15:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2,alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

"steven" <noone@email.com> wrote in message
news:429cdf80$0$575$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
>i for one will be getting one as soon as its available, forget the PS3 i
>think the Xbox 360 looks more powerfull by far
>
>

And by "looks", you mean that you have seen or played either? Didn't think
so. You get a troll no score. You don't have $300 for a 360 anyway. We
will tell you how it plays.
> "Fred Liken" <fredliken@toocool4school.com> wrote in message
> news:429cdbac$0$90627$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
>> "Buckaroo Banzai" <blackhole34@yahoo.com> wrote
>>
>>>> Imagine for a moment that you're an Xbox executive (insert joke here
>>>> about poor fashion sense).
>>>>
>>>> Your last console took a serious bite out of Sony's dominant
>>>> marketshare and surpassed Nintendo - but you are still a distant
>>>> second.
>>>
>>> I'm not a fanboy or anything, but I thought that the PS2 sold more units
>>> than the original PS... I could be wrong about that, but if it's true,
>>> then how can it be said that Microsoft affected Sony's market share at
>>> all?
>>
>> Market share isn't about past performances, but rather how many of the
>> systems sold are yours. Having XBox not only extended the market some,
>> but also diluted PS2's market share, you see?
>>
>>> Either way, I hope that all three consoles succeed... for our sake.
>>
>> I hope that they succeed, but that their new business models fail.
>>
>
>
!