Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question
Solved

GTX 560 SC awful BF3 performance

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
November 2, 2011 7:06:18 PM

Recently upgraded from an 8800GTX and it's barely an improvement. BF3 is tearing me a new one. All AA off, mixture of medium/low settings and I average 30fps but often dip, sometimes as low as 16fps. Frustrating.

1680x1050
EVGA GTX 560 SC
Phenom II X2 3.2Ghz
4GB DDR2 800
520W no-name PSU

The only thing I can think of is that the PSU is inadequate, but I'm 70W over the 450W minimum...thoughts?
a b U Graphics card
November 2, 2011 7:54:17 PM

A cheapo 520w psu probably only put's out 350/400w.

What's the make and model?

Have you ever seen those cheap computer speakers that say "500W High power" and they really are 5-10W. Yeah, same goes with cheap, non certified power supplies. Non certified psu's use a different formula to rate wattage, a cheating formula if you will.

If your hurry and disconnect it, you might save your system from a catastrophic meltdown. Keep fire extinguisher handy
m
0
l
Related resources
a b U Graphics card
November 2, 2011 8:33:05 PM

I agree with getting a X4 955 while they are still available. They are on sale for $105 all the time.

However, I don't think that's your problem. The BF3 article Tom's did showed 2 cores played the game fine. They ran a FX 8 core on 2 cores and it only dropped 7fps.

What we learned from that is BF3 doesn't care if you have 2 hyperthreaded cores or 4 real cores, it's gonna be exactly the same. The core i3 actually had the highest fps. Which is strange because it's 300mhz lower in clock speed and doesn't have turbo boost.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/battlefield-3-graph...
m
0
l
November 2, 2011 8:37:58 PM

Thanks for the replies.

I'll probably go ahead and order up a legit PSU this evening, probably that Corsair. I have no idea what the make and model of my current one is, the sticker is at the bottom so I'd have to unscrew it and take a look to even find out.

As for the CPU, I bought the dual core thinking it wouldn't be a bottleneck for a decent card, I'd like to get more opinions on that.

Also Djentleman, my name is a reference to Fredrik Thordendal's Special Defects...so yeah, imagine that.
m
0
l
November 2, 2011 8:40:52 PM

What is your driver version? The BF3 beta was performing horribly with my GTS 250 sli set up, but once I updated to the 285 driver release, everything smoothed out and I could play at 1920x1080 with medium settings. Though like everyone else has been saying, you should really consider a better PSU, even if its just a simple non-modular Antec like is used in most of the system builder articles of late.
m
0
l
November 2, 2011 8:44:32 PM

I'm using the 285 drivers that were released on 10/24.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 2, 2011 9:22:38 PM

geekapproved said:
I agree with getting a X4 955 while they are still available. They are on sale for $105 all the time.

However, I don't think that's your problem. The BF3 article Tom's did showed 2 cores played the game fine. They ran a FX 8 core on 2 cores and it only dropped 7fps.

What we learned from that is BF3 doesn't care if you have 2 hyperthreaded cores or 4 real cores, it's gonna be exactly the same. The core i3 actually had the highest fps. Which is strange because it's 300mhz lower in clock speed and doesn't have turbo boost.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/battlefield-3-graph...


It does matter in 64 player conquest MP, and dual cores get destroyed here.

I would also recommend getting a quad core CPU as an upgrade in general though. A few years ago a quad core was a bit overkill for gaming, but that's changing quickly.
m
0
l
November 2, 2011 9:39:15 PM

Oh boy...just had a "video driver stopped working and recovered successfully" event.

m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 2, 2011 10:43:53 PM

gmcizzle said:
I would also recommend getting a quad core CPU as an upgrade in general though. A few years ago a quad core was a bit overkill for gaming, but that's changing quickly.


Unless that dual is a i3-2100 w/hyperthreading :) 
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 2, 2011 11:06:26 PM

The CPU won't limit you in BF3: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/battlefield-3-graph...
This link was already posted above. It will limit you in Deus Ex.

Try doing a clean install of the NVidia 285 drivers. I've messed up settings for games with some weird setting and killed my fps before. A clean driver install fixed it.
m
0
l
November 2, 2011 11:49:21 PM

do a clean install on drivers.

do the following:
1. uninstall the current
2. use driver sweeper in safe mode (just google driver sweeper)
3. install the latest drivers (try using default settings first)
m
0
l
November 3, 2011 12:50:20 AM

specialDFX said:
Recently upgraded from an 8800GTX and it's barely an improvement. BF3 is tearing me a new one. All AA off, mixture of medium/low settings and I average 30fps but often dip, sometimes as low as 16fps. Frustrating.

1680x1050
EVGA GTX 560 SC
Phenom II X2 3.2Ghz
4GB DDR2 800
520W no-name PSU

The only thing I can think of is that the PSU is inadequate, but I'm 70W over the 450W minimum...thoughts?


HI,
First thing is update to the latest driver (285.62)
second thing, set the graphic details to high and disable anti aliasing.
Also get a new power supply, around 650 W.

m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 3:40:04 AM

That's a good enough PSU. It's definitely not what I would've bought since you can find XFX 650W SLI capable PSUs for that price, but it's your money. I'd have spent less since there's no telling that it's actually the PSU holding you back.

How many amps to you get on your +12V rail of your current one?
m
0
l
November 3, 2011 4:01:32 AM

I actually have no idea about the +12V rail. The PSU was a hand me down from a friend when the previous one died.

I know the PSU is not for sure the culprit, but since my current one is so sketchy I figured I'd replace it anyway.

And it's not too late to cancel that order, where would I find said 650W for said price?

m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 4:05:23 AM

Have you tried single player in BF3? How is SP vs. MP performance (especially on 64-player conquest servers)?
m
0
l
November 3, 2011 4:16:53 AM

I have not tried SP at all, MP on 64 player maps is a good 20% worse even.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 4:18:36 AM

I would try SP and see, because I'm almost certain your CPU is a huge bottleneck. On 64 player maps, even the sandy bridge CPUs run high.
m
0
l
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 4:32:19 AM

Instead of buying a new cpu as others say, I would try overclocking and or unlocking the extra cores on that phenom ii as that cpu is still a great cpu and has lots of potential. You may also want to try overclocking your ram also. This way you can save the extra bucks and spend it on a decent psu instead. Also which version GTX 560 do you have, they have the regular gtx 560 and the gtx 560 ti.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 5:13:16 AM

gmcizzle said:
I would try SP and see, because I'm almost certain your CPU is a huge bottleneck. On 64 player maps, even the sandy bridge CPUs run high.
Do you just mean that the multiplayer taxes the CPU? Because the multiplayer CPU usage here indicates that his CPU shouldn't bottleneck at all: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/battlefield-3-graph...
Can you provide your reference? Thanks.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 5:14:55 AM

hasten said:
I'm gonna agree the processor is likely your bottleneck.
What are you basing this on? I know it would bottleneck him in Deux Ex, but not BF3.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 5:17:05 AM

specialDFX said:
I actually have no idea about the +12V rail. The PSU was a hand me down from a friend when the previous one died.

I know the PSU is not for sure the culprit, but since my current one is so sketchy I figured I'd replace it anyway.

And it's not too late to cancel that order, where would I find said 650W for said price?

If you keep an eye on Newegg, you'll see that it's almost certain a good PSU sale is coming up soon: http://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/11-3520/11-1/index.h...

I wouldn't buy a PSU until a sale comes up, which will likely be this weekend. If you take the door off of your case, you can see the label on your PSU. It will tell you how many amps are on each rail.

Right now, these are the only two PSUs on Newegg I see that are better buys at your pricerange:

$35 (AR) CORSAIR Builder Series CX500 V2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$50 (AR) Antec NEO ECO 620C http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I got that Antec for $30 after a $30 rebate back in September though. So I'd wait for better deals if I were you. But that does depend on how bad your current PSU is. Look at the Hardware Monitor in your bios and tell us what voltages it reads out for each Voltage. For example, your +12V should be between 11.5V and 12.5V or so. You can also try reading voltages from HWMonitor (Google it), but those are only reliable for some systems.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 5:21:38 AM

dalauder said:
Do you just mean that the multiplayer taxes the CPU? Because the multiplayer CPU usage here indicates that his CPU shouldn't bottleneck at all: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/battlefield-3-graph...
Can you provide your reference? Thanks.

No that article benchmarked SP only, and a scripted SP scene at that. Hold on I will see if I find some numbers of this.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 5:29:47 AM

Can't really find many good benches on retail, but here's a bench from the BETA http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/1151970-my-own-bf3-...

All the quad cores perform similarly, but the dual core phenom x2 is being crushed.

Here's a review that was going to show the differences between dual and quad, but they got locked out of BF3 from Origin. Instead, all it shows is that quad cores perform similarly...

http://www.guru3d.com/article/battlefield-3-vga-and-cpu...

Also, the recommended requirement for BF3 is a quad-core: http://bf3blog.com/battlefield-3-system-requirements/

And there was a thread I replied to not long ago about someone wondering if 85% CPU usage on his i5-2500k at 4.2ghz was of concern during BF3.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 6:04:39 AM

Haha...85% usage on an i5-2500K? Whoa...that's beastly. Thanks for the links.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 9:45:50 AM

FYI: Newegg's got 15% off Corsair PSUs now.
m
0
l
November 3, 2011 3:56:12 PM

Quote:
Instead of buying a new cpu as others say, I would try overclocking and or unlocking the extra cores on that phenom ii as that cpu is still a great cpu and has lots of potential. You may also want to try overclocking your ram also. This way you can save the extra bucks and spend it on a decent psu instead. Also which version GTX 560 do you have, they have the regular gtx 560 and the gtx 560 ti.


Intriguing, didn't even think of unlocking cores. What does this entail exactly? All my cooling and stuff is stock, and I'm fairly clueless about such things.

My card is the GTX 560 superclocked, not ti.

dalauder said:

I wouldn't buy a PSU until a sale comes up, which will likely be this weekend. If you take the door off of your case, you can see the label on your PSU. It will tell you how many amps are on each rail.


Sticker's on the bottom, I'd have to remove the PSU to get at it.

Anyhow, I've disconnected power from the card and am running onboard video now until the new PSU arrives. I figure I'll just stick with the one I ordered for now, no big deal.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 4:53:26 PM

specialDFX said:
Thanks for the replies.

I'll probably go ahead and order up a legit PSU this evening, probably that Corsair. I have no idea what the make and model of my current one is, the sticker is at the bottom so I'd have to unscrew it and take a look to even find out.

As for the CPU, I bought the dual core thinking it wouldn't be a bottleneck for a decent card, I'd like to get more opinions on that.

Also Djentleman, my name is a reference to Fredrik Thordendal's Special Defects...so yeah, imagine that.

Finally, someone who understands my name!

I think your cpu is fine if you don't mind a minor fps dip. I can understand a budget; i'm still rocking DDr2!
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 5:08:15 PM

Unlocking...well that requires a motherboard with unlocking capabilities--often related the the ACC (Advanced Clock Calibration) feature on a bunch of the AM3/AM3+ motherboards you'll see on Newegg. I think your motherboard is AM2, so chances are it doesn't have the feature.

However, that doesn't mean you can't overclock anything. I've had some kits of 800MHz RAM that run 960MHz just fine (at slightly increased voltages). And your Phenom II x2 is probably a Black Edition, which means an unlocked multiplier. All you have to do to overclock one of those is go into your bios and pick a new higher multiplier. Then watch your temps and do some stability testing.

You might want to start a new thread on overclocking. A good PSU will aid a little in overclocking. But I think you'll be fine with just integrated graphics.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 5:41:11 PM

Oh--yep, a quick google search shows you've got unlocking. Give it a try and let us know how it goes. That should help a lot with BF3. But I think your PSU may have been limiting too. If it unlocks, there's absolutely no reason you need to upgrade your CPU immediately.
m
0
l
November 3, 2011 5:55:10 PM

Will do, thanks.

However now I'm questioning whether the 12V on the PSU I just ordered is sufficient.

Since you guys are being awesome about holding my hand here, could someone tell me if I'm missing anything here?

The card's EVGA page says it needs +12 Volt current rating of 24 Amps.

Here's the PSU again. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
m
0
l
November 3, 2011 5:57:16 PM

hasten said:
Basic overclocking is pretty easy. As long as you don't have a locked bios, basically it is balancing speed (through core frequency or multiplier) to voltage and as a result stabilizing temperatures (an increase in either speed or voltage will increase your operating temperatures). It will cost you $30 - 50 for a pretty good cooler, $70+ for basic (closed loop) water or a very good air cooler.

Unlocking cores is something that your board needs to allow and is absolutely not a certainty it will work.

For the extra $50 over the cooler I would get a solid quad core Phenom II on sale, especially if you are not comfortable overclocking. Also if you can't unlock the extra cores you won't get that much benefit. It's nerve racking the first couple times you OC, but you'll quickly realize as long as you keep everything in check you aren't hurting anything. It will be a lot easier to push a few 100mhz out of a new quadcore and something you can likely do with stock cooling.

Some really good deals should be down the pike with AMD getting rid of the extra PII stock and the holiday season coming.


Yeah, I'm very strongly considering giving it a go but I'm also watching newegg like a hawk for deals atm.
m
0
l
a c 125 U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 6:03:52 PM

The PSU you bought is fine. I've seen before where someone ran a card with a crappy PSU, basically the card gets throttled by not being able to get enough power. I definitely think this PSU will help you out. No reason you can't play all medium with some high settings.

The dual core might be a bit of a bottleneck but not too bad. As mentioned it might be worthwhile to look into overclocking and/or unlocking cores. A new quad core AMD cpu is a good deal too so if you can't OC it with your current motherboard, it might be a better investment to get a new CPU whenever funds become available.

In the meantime, plug that new PSU in and see what happens :D 
m
0
l
November 3, 2011 7:23:48 PM

Djentleman said:
Finally, someone who understands my name!


thall
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 3, 2011 10:13:11 PM

specialDFX said:
Will do, thanks.

However now I'm questioning whether the 12V on the PSU I just ordered is sufficient.

Since you guys are being awesome about holding my hand here, could someone tell me if I'm missing anything here?

The card's EVGA page says it needs +12 Volt current rating of 24 Amps.

Here's the PSU again. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
That PSU is fine. But I still think the $31 Corsair CX500, which is about the same quality PSU, is a better buy. Why not save $19? and get that?
m
0
l
November 3, 2011 11:34:57 PM

dalauder said:
That PSU is fine. But I still think the $31 Corsair CX500, which is about the same quality PSU, is a better buy. Why not save $19? and get that?


The Antec had been shipped by the time I got up this morning :p 
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 4, 2011 12:52:37 AM

It'll work well.
m
0
l
November 4, 2011 5:32:43 PM

Nope, no microcenter. I live in California, stuck with Fry's :/ 
m
0
l
November 5, 2011 12:48:11 AM

It's definitely your CPU. I know because I was running an e8400 and was only getting 20fps avg, now I've got a 2500k and I'm getting 45 fps avg on the same settings. Trust me this game punishes dual cores.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 5, 2011 1:30:29 AM

A Intel Cpu here is half your paycheck. The gpu's is three quaters that and the mobo a quarter that. Sperm of a Nobel peace price winner is cheaper than Pc parts here
m
0
l
November 5, 2011 5:08:03 PM

New PSU is in, finally get to see the sticker on the old one. It's made by Aspire, and if I'm reading it correctly, the +12V rails had 16A and 18A...
m
0
l
November 5, 2011 9:36:28 PM

hasten said:
Any improvement?

Either way it is a good idea to replace that PSU. It was borderline close to having ample power and a ghetto brand. The last thing you want is a shotty PSU taking out a bunch of your components.

I'm guessing you'll still be looking at a new CPU though. Remember if you don't want it for another build you can usually get a decent amount of $$ on ebay for your old cpu.


Playable on high/med settings, nothing exciting about the fps though. Peak mid 40s, dips to 20s.

Funny thing is turning off AA doesn't gain me much if any, nor cranking the settings down altogether.

Definitely keeping an eye on newegg sales for an X4.
m
0
l

Best solution

a b U Graphics card
November 6, 2011 2:17:00 AM

specialDFX said:
Playable on high/med settings, nothing exciting about the fps though. Peak mid 40s, dips to 20s.

Funny thing is turning off AA doesn't gain me much if any, nor cranking the settings down altogether.

Definitely keeping an eye on newegg sales for an X4.
Have you gone into your bios and tried the core unlocker? What speed is your CPU overclocked to? You're in the perfect situation for learning how to overclock now as it can actually provide a tangible benefit for you. There's around a 50% chance you can get a quad core running at 3.6GHz if you unlock and OC--so look into it.

Also, if you upgrade to a Phenom II x4--go for the Phenom II 960 Zosma (Black Edition) because it's pretty much the same price as the 955BE with similar stock specs...except it's an x6 Thuban with disabled cores. That thing may unlock to an x6 for no extra price to you. I probably wouldn't upgrade a Phenom II x2. I'd just save up and build a new computer.
Share
a b U Graphics card
November 6, 2011 3:04:31 AM

hasten said:
What does this even mean? What is it's relevence to the op's question? Are we supposed to guess where you live? Is this a shot at intel? I'm confused as to why we should care.

what are you on about or smoking? Was replying to the above post of the stores. Nothing to do with intel because intel doesn't sell single cpus over a counter. Its just related to the cheap prices and wide range of place to purchase it from that's all.
Cheers
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 6, 2011 3:07:06 AM

specialDFX said:
Playable on high/med settings, nothing exciting about the fps though. Peak mid 40s, dips to 20s.

Funny thing is turning off AA doesn't gain me much if any, nor cranking the settings down altogether.

Definitely keeping an eye on newegg sales for an X4.

that's a cpu bottleneck. What resolution are you playing at.
m
0
l
November 6, 2011 2:24:42 PM

hasten said:
What AA are you tweaking? BF3 runs MSAA and FXAA - MSAA up to 4x and then post AA is what they are calling FXAA. MSAA should give you a decent hit, I get about 10fps on 4x with my 580. FXAA or post AA on any level you will only see drop of a few fps at most.

Either way, turning it down to low settings without improvement sounds like a CPU bottleneck. I talked to my friend and he was unhappy with the performance of the beta with his e8400 @ 4ghz with a GTX 560 ti (which has a nice OC too). He's waiting to get BF3 until he finishes his new build.

Since it looks like its coming down to a new CPU, my advice is to not overspend on an X4. Be patient! You won't have an upgrade path available after doing so, basically anything after is going to require an entirely new build. You'll also probably only notice a small bump in your everyday computing performance.

Watch for OEM processors on Newegg. They typically go pretty quick and you get nothing but the processor, but you'll save a lot. You might want to take a chance on a used guy if you can find one in the $50 range... It can be a disaster, but I've done builds for two friends who have used guys and they're running strong well over a year later. Only do that if you are very comfortable with ebay(or similar) and are willing to put some time into making sure you get a good deal from a reputable seller.



Well apparently MSAA has autoed to off, and post AA to high. Turning post AA down doesn't give me any noticeable gain.

Advice regarding X4 pricing noted, I'm going to have a go at unlocking today though so with a little luck I may just save that cash.

dalauder said:
Have you gone into your bios and tried the core unlocker? What speed is your CPU overclocked to? You're in the perfect situation for learning how to overclock now as it can actually provide a tangible benefit for you. There's around a 50% chance you can get a quad core running at 3.6GHz if you unlock and OC--so look into it.

Also, if you upgrade to a Phenom II x4--go for the Phenom II 960 Zosma (Black Edition) because it's pretty much the same price as the 955BE with similar stock specs...except it's an x6 Thuban with disabled cores. That thing may unlock to an x6 for no extra price to you. I probably wouldn't upgrade a Phenom II x2. I'd just save up and build a new computer.


Planning on doing so today, currently searching around this site for instructions. If I'm successful, will my stock fans be adequate? I came across the CPU-Z validator so I'm now aware of that.

That CPU does sound legit, not available on newegg anymore though it seems.
EDIT: that would be because it's sold out due to the sale.

I would definitely upgrade to an X4 if the situation dictates, considering I built this computer just over 6 months ago. Thing is I bought the ram first for an older board, then I decided to get a new mobo and CPU, so I was stuck building the thing around DDR2.

gnomio said:
that's a cpu bottleneck. What resolution are you playing at.


1680x1050
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
November 6, 2011 8:26:02 PM

You're going to want to monitor your temps if you unlock or overclock. Download HWMonitor from CPU-Z and considering putting a shortcut to it in your Start Menu -> Programs -> Startup folder so you don't forget to monitor temps, which is important the first week or so of a new overclock. You'll also want to monitor temps prior to your unlock so you're familiar with which readings relate to the CPU socket temp as the individual core sensors are disabled when you enable the unlock.

Can you link the thread where you're looking into unlocking? I've attempted to unlock three Phenom II x2's and there's some possibility I could provide useful input...although that may be limited because I only got one of the three stable--but that one OC'd a bit too!

As far as the adequacy of your cooler...I highly recommend you pick up the Xigmatek Dark Knight while Newegg has it for $8 after coupon + rebate: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3506968
Xigmatek's rebates are apparently difficult to cash in on--but this thing outperforms a Hyper 212+, so there's no loss even if you didn't get the rebate at like $27 or so for the cooler. But your cooler may be just fine for an unlock. I have no temp issues with the unlocked one and stock cooler I set up--but I can't guarantee everyone will have the same heat output.

Btw, random fps dips w/o settings impacting much is very indicative of a CPU bottleneck. We have now pretty conclusively confirmed that. BF3 has the post AA that presents almost zero performance penalty, btw--so what you're experiencing is normal.
m
0
l
November 6, 2011 9:06:37 PM

I haven't actually found any useful threads that might serve as a guide. Many threads posted by people unsuccessful in unlocking their X2 cores though, heh.

Starting to learn cause and effect with this hardware, and I can see how my performance in BF3 is directly related to the CPU.

Downloaded HWMonitor and installed. Just right off the bat, it reads my core temps as both exactly 0°C/32°F, which I find odd.
m
0
l
!