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Pentium 4 ht 3Ghz and Radeon HD 5450 bottleneck?

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April 11, 2012 1:55:14 PM

I have an old pc which has the Pentium 4 hyperthreaded running at 3ghz . I want to put a graphics card and may get the
Radeon HD 5450 or the Radeon HD 6450 . I want to know how badly the CPU will bottleneck these graphics cards.

Thanks.
a b U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 2:25:00 PM

Any modem GPU will be crippled with that CPU. A good match for that cpu would be an older ATI 2000 series or nVidia 6/7/8 series GPU.
April 11, 2012 2:54:46 PM

how about this GIGABYTE GeForce 8400GS 512MB GDDR2 ?
i dont think my pc can handle ddr3 right?
Related resources
a c 99 U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 2:56:01 PM

Video card memory has nothing to do with your actual computer/motherboard memory.
April 11, 2012 2:57:21 PM

nukemaster said:
Video card memory has nothing to do with your actual computer memory.



oh that good because the card with gddr3 memory is actually cheaper
a c 109 U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 3:11:43 PM

They're all low end cards, game play wont' suck because of your processor, it will suck because of your card.
a c 99 U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 3:40:06 PM

What games do you want to play and what screen resolution.

Even in the P4 days, you could get some fast cards(8800GTX for instance, but long discontinued and once a 600+ dollar card).

EDIT

What is the price you are looking to pay.

Even with a bit overkill, you can always keep it for a future system.
April 11, 2012 4:04:06 PM

i will play at 1280 x 1024
my budget is low which is why im deciding to use this system in the first place :( 
so less than £50. Anyway im not looking to play anything graphically intensive . just MMO games at a reasonable setting
April 11, 2012 4:11:46 PM

also if its gonna cost so much it would be better to get a core 2 duo cos i have the LGA 775 socket?
a b U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 4:37:52 PM

With a £50 budget, a HD 6570 would probably be your best option.
It will be much, much more capable than a 5450, 6450 or 8400GS (performance should be similar to a 8800 GTS 640/320) and is priced within your range.
It is also quite low power, so you should not have any issues with your PSU.

As for the CPU, if you are on a budget, give it a try only upgrading the GPU first.
Many MMOs are not terribly high in the system requirements and you could probably get acceptable performance.
If it happens that your performance is unacceptable with the new GPU, a Core 2 Quad (or any Core 2 based CPU really) will offer you a massive performance boost.

Before you go out and purchase a new CPU however, make sure to post back your exact motherboard.
While it may be LGA 775, this does not guarantee that it is compatible with all LGA 775 processors.
We should first check if there is a BIOS available with support for which ever CPU you would want to replace the P4 with.
April 11, 2012 4:44:48 PM

thanks , i think for now I would get the HD 6570 or if I can push it up to the 6670 .
So the P4 wouldn't hold back the GPU too much then?
a b U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 4:57:17 PM

Yes, the CPU will probably hold your GPU back, especially at such a low resolution, but it should still give you a massive performance boost over what ever your current GPU/IGP is.
Even bottlenecked by the CPU, there is a good chance that you will get acceptable performance in the games you are looking to play.
April 11, 2012 5:40:09 PM

outlw6669 said:
Yes, the CPU will probably hold your GPU back, especially at such a low resolution, but it should still give you a massive performance boost over what ever your current GPU/IGP is.
Even bottlenecked by the CPU, there is a good chance that you will get acceptable performance in the games you are looking to play.


could you explain the resolution part.

sorry for being a noob

Also do GPU with fans generally perform better than passive GPUs ??
a c 99 U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 6:20:44 PM

The lower the screen resolution, the less work the video card has to do. At low resolutions, so the cpu has to keep up. This was why when core2 cpus first came out many test posted had a screen resolution of something like 800x600 or something.

While many argue at higher resolution, the performance would be closer between systems(since you push the bottleneck onto the video card it self).

You want to know what is sad, well more to the point, huge waste of power.

I7 920 @ 3.5
5770(for the lower power consumption)
12 gigs of ram
1280 x 1024 screen(but it just had the backlight fail :(  even with new caps to replace all the puffed up ones, it still blows its fuse and the bulbs them self are fine).

That is what happens when you pass parts along to the next in the line, but do not send the screen with it.
April 11, 2012 7:33:46 PM

is 1080p video playback cpu intensive?
a c 99 U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 7:46:51 PM

It is very cpu intensive if done in software. Modern video cards take that load on so the cpu(even entry cards have this built in now) can do other things.

With the right card, even Intel Atom will handle 1080p without issues.

With better cards, you sometimes get extra features(video enhancements) not found in entry level cards.
April 11, 2012 7:53:54 PM

So just adding the £50 graphics card it should speed up most things on my computer to a certain degree?
a c 99 U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 8:08:31 PM

What operation system are you running(XP/Vista/7)?

Vista/7 use the video card for desktop composition and you can tell the difference with a better video card.

In general, anything that uses the video card will get the improvement. Even flash video(youtube ect) uses the video card now.
a c 99 U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 8:27:55 PM

Hey, when the P4 is what you have, the P4 is what you use. Just keep the heatsink clean so it does not heat up too much and give er.
April 11, 2012 8:35:04 PM

thanks for your trouble , one last question - when the GPU says it need 400w PSU can you cheat and use a 350w or do you have to be 100% safe.

I've been looking at requirements for games like lord of the rings online, seems like when im finish with my pc I should be more than able to run it.
a c 123 U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 8:39:00 PM

Yes, you are massively bottlenecked but get an HD6450 1GB card for $40 (newegg NCIX etc ), fanless model and stick with that.

Don't spend money upgrading this system as it's really not worth it. Yes, the HD6450 is a relatively low card, and yes anything more will be bottlenecked by the CPU.

Playing video content:
1) download and install the K-Lite Codec Pack Standard (www.free-codecs.com)
2) make sure DXVA for MPEG2, H.264 and VC-1 are all checked (when installing or after in the media player MPC-HC).
3) also download and install the latest drivers/Catalyst from www.amd.com and DISABLE all the advanced Video settings (flesh tones etc) as they mess up video quality.
a c 123 U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 8:41:01 PM

FYI, even websites will run better with ADOBE FLASH being hardware decoded via the card rather than using your CPU.
a c 99 U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 8:44:44 PM

It all depends on how much power the system takes.

Also it is important to know that while a 400 watt psu is a good reference it is ALL about how many amps you have on the 12 volt rail.

For instance you can get a real cheap 500 watt power supply that has most of its power on the 3.3 and 5 volt lines(and is worse then a good 300 watt unit). This is NOT good for modern systems that want more and more 12 volt power. so watch that. A good power supply will have a good 80(maybe 75) or more percent of its power on the 12 volt rail(not to be confused with 80+ energy efficiency).

Just as an example.
I have a media center with a 5770 and it runs fine on a 300 watt power supply even with the requirements of a 450 watt unit.

Pentium 4 cpus tend to take more power then some of the newer cpu's so that has to be taken into consideration.

If you are looking at the 6570, it takes very little power and should be fine on all but the worst power supplies.

What kind of power supply do you have?
What model of P4 is it?
April 11, 2012 8:49:57 PM

stock 250w on the end of their lifespan . I also have a 350w PSU but taking to the shops to see if its functioning properly. Will buy a new one if it doesnt.
a c 99 U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 8:53:05 PM

Ok, but post what you plan to buy so we can give input. sometimes you see a power supply for a good price, but it turns out to be crap.

Think Antec,XFX,Corsair,Seasonic,OCZ,FSP(I know some may not "Like" FSP, but they make a decent cheap power supply, and many of OCZ's units are made from FSP) and NOT aspire,deer,turbogamer,apex ect. Store brands can be hit or miss as well.
April 11, 2012 8:54:21 PM

photonboy said:
Yes, you are massively bottlenecked but get an HD6450 1GB card for $40 (newegg NCIX etc ), fanless model and stick with that.

Don't spend money upgrading this system as it's really not worth it. Yes, the HD6450 is a relatively low card, and yes anything more will be bottlenecked by the CPU.

Playing video content:
1) download and install the K-Lite Codec Pack Standard (www.free-codecs.com)
2) make sure DXVA for MPEG2, H.264 and VC-1 are all checked (when installing or after in the media player MPC-HC).
3) also download and install the latest drivers/Catalyst from www.amd.com and DISABLE all the advanced Video settings (flesh tones etc) as they mess up video quality.



I was think of the HD6570 because it has 480 stream cores. Is this gonna cause anything major?
then again , ive found a HD6540 for nearly 20 pounds less...
a c 99 U Graphics card
April 11, 2012 9:10:50 PM

Truth be told, when a company does not show combined rails, it is kind of questionable.

It would seem as that power supply can push about 240-250 watts on its 12 volt rails.

Will see what else they sell.

EDIT

Not lots to go on. even a 620 watt from the same maker may just push 400 watts @ 12 volts. that is about = to many 450 watt units. For your system it should work, but i have NEVER heard of that power supply maker.

What other websites do you shop at?

EDIT EDIT.

How did i miss this :) 

http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Power+Supplie...

It is a value power supply, but should run for you.

If you have a rear case fan it is a good because it will help the power supply suck less heat(this power supply is rated to deliver its rated power @ 30c. more expensive ones are rated @ 50c and cheap ones are rated at 20-25c)

More then enough power for your system here(336 watts @ 12 volts).
April 12, 2012 6:27:24 AM

what about PSUs with 2 12v rails? is this a big advantage?
a c 99 U Graphics card
April 12, 2012 7:06:19 AM

While some makers used to say it was more stable, it is not.

Rails had been added to meet the ATX spec(and safety spec). It was stated that no 12 rail should have more then 18(or was it 20 amps). The reason behind this was that if you try to pull 50 amps over 1 cable, it will heat up and can catch fire.

Most multi rail PSU's simply have a current limiter(18-22 amps is most cases). This prevents the possibility of user error causing a malfunction or fire hazards.

As long as you do not try to run EVERYTHING from one 4 pin molex connector(after all, with adapters and y cables, you CAN try to plug everything into one cable. This can cause a fire. for real), you will be good.

At the other end, the single rail power supply makers say that you will have wasted power on half used rails, but with more power supplies getting power from a common rail, it does not happen often in practice.

Example

700 watt power supply with 4 18 amp rails.
You can NOT ADD the rails or else you would have 864 watts, the power supply most likely has about 600-650 watts of 12 volt power.

So lets say 54 amps total on the 12 volt rails combined.
You can draw up to 18 per rail, but the power on all rails combined is limited to 54 amps total.
So if you max out rail 1 and 2, you only have 18 amps left to split along the last 2 rails. As long as no rail exceeds 18 amps and all rails stay under 54 amps, no power is wasted or stuck.

That power supply gets all its power from one large rail. the 18 amps is simply a current limiter that will shut off if you get too far past the 18 amp limit(most work upto about 20amps on an 18amp rail in actual practice and very few things will tax that kind of rail, hell my entire media center pc can run within one of those rails :)  ).
April 12, 2012 10:24:42 AM

I think i'm all solved now . Thanks for the help

-EDIT-
how do the cpu and gpu connect to the RAM on your system ?
a b U Graphics card
April 12, 2012 11:35:26 AM

adamkhatab said:
how do the cpu and gpu connect to the RAM on your system ?

System RAM and graphics RAM are handled independently.
That is to say, the type of RAM the graphics card uses has no impact on the system RAM and vice verse.

If you were looking for more in depth information on how the memory works together with the CPU and GPU however, just post back and we can get a little further into the technical details ;) 
April 12, 2012 12:07:14 PM

outlw6669 said:

If you were looking for more in depth information on how the memory works together with the CPU and GPU however, just post back and we can get a little further into the technical details ;) 


sure , would you recommend this :

450W Cooler Master GX 80PLUS Bronze
+12v1 (a) 35

power supply?
a c 99 U Graphics card
April 12, 2012 7:44:36 PM

While many users do not recommend Cooler Master(I have never used one, only use Cooler Master Heatsinks and some times fans), for your build i see NO reason for it not work.

The card you are selecting does not need much power at all.

If you overload this power supply, the over heat protection will shut it down anyway(unlike some power supplies this thing will shut down instead of just burning up). I do not recommend pushing that power supply to the max, but with your current system and card, it will be no problem.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Cooler-Master-GX...
April 12, 2012 9:15:36 PM

yeah , the safety aspect appeals to me , could i get a away with those cheap Arianet PSUs ? As I dont really want to spend
much cash on this old computer , better save as much for a new one.
a c 99 U Graphics card
April 14, 2012 1:09:10 AM

It is a bit hard to say, the 400 watt unit does not have that much power(about 240-250 @ 12 volts, so it is more like a 300 watt power supply from other manufacturers), but your video card does not need that much power to be honest.

Most 3.0Ghz P4's did not exceed 90 watts so your system should not be that power hungry(sure it is compared to some of the early Core2 chips that used less power and performed better, but its not THAT power hungry).

I have no experience with those units nor do i know who makes them.

I would say if you are worried go with something a little bigger(just to play it safe) if you are going to stick with that brand.
a c 109 U Graphics card
April 14, 2012 3:53:55 AM

Corsair CX430V2?
April 14, 2012 11:12:16 AM

okay will get the Cooler master GX 450w or the Corsair CX430
!