Monitor calibration help

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

>Alfred Molon writes
>
>I ran the calibration and the LCD screen of my notebook now looks
>dull - not so bright and "shiny" as before ...I'm not too happy with
>the result. Why do calibrated monitors have to be so dark and dull?

I see the exact opposite, when calibrated my monitors have an expanded
tonal range, which you can see when the program loads the values into
the video card's LUT at startup.

>Is this normal or did I perhaps make a mistake with the
>calibration ?

Some things that might help you debug this ... if you've run Adobe
Gamma from Photoshop or Elements then there's a Gamma loader .exe file
in your Startup folder which loads the gamma ICC profile. This means
you are loading two different sets of values into the video card and
will cause problems. If you're using XP then do Start > All Programs >
Startup to see if the Gamma loader is there and if it is then delete
it.

Note that sometimes with LCD calibrations the puck isn't flush with the
screen since you can't use suction cups on an LCD. This can cause
extra light to seep in and throw off the calibration, which will
probably cause the results to be too dark, which is what you're seeing.
Maybe re-run the calibration and try to check the baffles ... many
people report they get better results running the calibration in the
dark to avoid this problem.

Also note that few people would expect to get spot-on results with a
notebook LCD for critical color matching.

If you re-run the Spyder and don't have Gamma loading and still have
problems maybe send me an email, I have a profile analysis program that
can graph your profile and compare it to a good profile so you can see
if the profile is way off. I did this for a guy recently on the
Photoshop NG and when he showed the results to ColorVision they sent
him a new Spyder since one of the channels was apparently plugged.

Bill

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <1115585527.426606.107660@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, Bill
Hilton says...

> Some things that might help you debug this ... if you've run Adobe
> Gamma from Photoshop or Elements then there's a Gamma loader .exe file
> in your Startup folder which loads the gamma ICC profile. This means
> you are loading two different sets of values into the video card and
> will cause problems. If you're using XP then do Start > All Programs >
> Startup to see if the Gamma loader is there and if it is then delete
> it.

Thanks for the reply. Actually I had removed the Adobe gamma loader from
the Startup folder, before doing the calibration.

> Note that sometimes with LCD calibrations the puck isn't flush with the
> screen since you can't use suction cups on an LCD. This can cause
> extra light to seep in and throw off the calibration, which will
> probably cause the results to be too dark, which is what you're seeing.
> Maybe re-run the calibration and try to check the baffles ... many
> people report they get better results running the calibration in the
> dark to avoid this problem.

I did the calibration in a dark room, with the LCD screen horizontal and
the Spyder on top of it, so no extra light should have come inside.

> Also note that few people would expect to get spot-on results with a
> notebook LCD for critical color matching.
>
> If you re-run the Spyder and don't have Gamma loading and still have
> problems maybe send me an email, I have a profile analysis program that
> can graph your profile and compare it to a good profile so you can see
> if the profile is way off. I did this for a guy recently on the
> Photoshop NG and when he showed the results to ColorVision they sent
> him a new Spyder since one of the channels was apparently plugged.

I'm still not sure if I ran the calibration program with the correct
settings. I used the program's recommended default settings.

Also, the ColorVision Startup which autostarts on reboot (is in the
Startup folder) report an error (translated from German) "no calibration
data found in the profile "sRGB Color Space Profile" of the monitor "IBM
Thinkpad 1024x768 LCD panel". Choose a different profile with
ProfileChooser (1168)".

When I start ProfileChooser I get the error message:

"No profiles currently associated with this monitor.

Error 4306 (CMSSupportEx.cpp 106)

The library, the drive or the medium are empty."

I almost wonder if the program is perhaps looking for the cd crive with
the Spyder software CD inside.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <1115594227.908574.221860@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Bill
Hilton says...

> If you have XP try this ... right click on the open desktop and then
> Properties > Settings > Advanced > Color Management and in the box
> 'color profiles currently associated with this device' see if the ICC
> profile you made is listed. If so, you can select it here (you still
> have the problem of figuring out why the loader didn't see it). If
> not, there was a problem generating the profile and storing it in the
> right directory.

Ok, did that and now ProfileChooser is able to load the ICC profile
created by Spyder2Pro. But it appears that the ICC profile generated by
Spyder2Pro is incorrect, because I still get the darker screen with a
slightly blueish colour cast.

In Spyder2pro, under Extras -> Information it shows the data:
-----------------------
Display luminance (Candelas):
uncalibrated: (black) 1.66 (white) 71.2
target values: (black) / (white) /
uncalibrated: (black) 1.66 (white) 43.8
-----------------------

-> Here it appears that the calibrated luminance is down to 43.8 Cd from
71.2 Cd (LCD screen darker than before). But apparently the target
values are missing - should I have entered them ?

-----------------------
White point (CIE x,y)
uncalibrated: 0.355 0.371
target values: 0.314 0.324
calibrated: 0.311 0.327
-----------------------

-> Should I have entered different target values ?

It seems that the default recommended settings of the Spyder2Pro
software are not the right ones in my case.
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

>Ok, did that and now ProfileChooser is able to load the ICC
>profile created by Spyder2Pro

OK, making *some* progress

>But it appears that the ICC profile generated by
>Spyder2Pro is incorrect, because I still get the darker screen
>with a slightly blueish colour cast.
>
>it appears that the calibrated luminance is down to 43.8 Cd
>from 71.2 Cd

I use different hardware and software, but the target luminance for my
software is 85-95 Cd/m (or whatever the units are). This would likely
explain why your screen is darker.

The "blueish color cast" would be from a white balance setting ... can
you specify a target of say 6500K or so or does it just ask for the CIE
values instead? Blue cast would mean a higher WB setting.

>It seems that the default recommended settings of the Spyder2Pro
>software are not the right ones in my case.

I think there's features in that software that let you match multiple
monitors (like in an office) and maybe that's causing problems? Dunno,
but see if you can find a 6500K WB target setting and also try for a
brighter luminance target like 85-95 (which is what I use on my
laptops) and see if that helps.

Bill

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <427f6442$0$40890$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net>, Thomas T.
Veldhouse says...

> Unless you are using a specific tool designed for your LCD, you are not
> supposed to use calibration hardware with LCD monitors. I guess now we
> see why.

The Spyder2Pro is capable of calibrating LCD screens. On the box it's
written "Professional Color Calibration System for CRT and LCD
displays".
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Alfred Molon <alfredREMOVE_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Last week I received a print from a lab with a yellow cast and with
> lifeless colours (not sure if you know what I mean). Since the lab
> insisted that they use calibrated tools, I ordered a Spyder2Pro
> calibration tool (the one from Pantone).
>
> I ran the calibration and the LCD screen of my notebook now looks dull
> - not so bright and "shiny" as before, reading text now is more
> difficult. It even appears that the monitor has a slight blueish cast,
> compared to before.
>
> I'm not too happy with the result. Why do calibrated monitors have to
> be so dark and dull ? Reading text now is more difficult, because the
> white of the screen now is some kind of grey. When I look at my
> images, it looks as if they lost saturation, contrast and brightness.
>
> Is this normal or did I perhaps make a mistake with the calibration ?
> There was no user manual in the Spyder2Pro box.
>
> By the way, perhaps I should revert to the default monitor profile,
> because reading text is really tiring with the calibrated monitor.

LCD displays require much more expensive calibration equipment than
CRT's and the result is rarely as satisfactory. I've used 3 different
systems this year that gave me a good CRT correction and whose
manufacturers claimed they could be used for LCD displays and never
gotten a good correction yet. Nasty magenta shifts in the shadows,
usually. The software says I have a good correction but my eyes tell me
otherwise. Apparently the Spyder2Pro shares these shortcomings.

Get a CRT. You can't do quality work with an LCD screen.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Alfred Molon <alfredREMOVE_molon@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I did the calibration in a dark room, with the LCD screen horizontal and
> the Spyder on top of it, so no extra light should have come inside.
>

The weight of the Spyder will very likely distort the colors on your
screen. You may get better results by cutting a piece of CLEAR plastic to
fit in front of your screen and using the suction cups to attach the spyder
to this plastic. The screen should be vertical.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:

> Bubbabob <rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> writes:
>> Get a CRT. You can't do quality work with an LCD screen.
>
> SGI 1600SW?
>

You're welcome to use it. It's not good enough for my work. I'm real picky
about color linearity in the shadows.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Bubbabob" <rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> wrote in message
news:Xns96526EFBAF657dilfjelfoiwepofujsdk@216.168.3.30...
> Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Bubbabob <rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> writes:
>>> Get a CRT. You can't do quality work with an LCD screen.
>>
>> SGI 1600SW?
>>
>
> You're welcome to use it. It's not good enough for my work. I'm real picky
> about color linearity in the shadows.

Just curious Bubba, what photography do you do professionally? You're so
caught up in the perfection of a CRT.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Bubbabob" <rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> wrote in message
news:Xns96576F65FF5D3dilfjelfoiwepofujsdk@216.168.3.30...
> "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote:
>
>
>>> You're welcome to use it. It's not good enough for my work. I'm real
>>> picky about color linearity in the shadows.
>>
>> Just curious Bubba, what photography do you do professionally? You're
>> so caught up in the perfection of a CRT.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I'm a Medical Photographer for the University of New Mexico Medical
> School. This covers a lot more photgraphic ground than the title would
> indicate. Everything from surgeries to gross specimens to course material
> prep to pre-production for publication to portraiture to PR to
> architecture to fornsic to god knows what. I've had my work published in
> Nature, Science, JAMA, The Lancet, and most of the other major medical
> journals. (Almost none of them seem to have ever heard of the idea of a
> credit line, though.)
>
> In an earlier life I was a TV Broadcast Engineer, with the primary
> responsibilties of maintaining calibration in studio cameras and keeping
> over 150 color monitors within the D6500 standard.

OK, I bow to your credentials

Still think a good LCD is wonderful.