Need advice on multipurpose enthusiast PC

kikeiros

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Jan 3, 2012
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18,510
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Approximate Purchase Date: February 2012

Budget Range: Somenthing near 1000-1200€

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Web development (application servers, databases...) & gaming

Parts Not Required: keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers, OS, HDD (2x 1.5 TB)

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: www.pccomponentes.com

Country: Spain

Parts Preferences: Intel CPU i5-2500K, SSD (applications & OS), p67 motherboard, modular PSU, nice color scheme

Overclocking: If possible a moderate 4.0GHz OC keeping the computer cool & really quiet

SLI or Crossfire: Yes, 2 years after buying to keep it updated.

Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080 on main BenQ GL2240M 21.5'' and 1280x1024 with old Hyundai L70S+ (double screen setup)

Additional Comments: I NEVER turn off the computer, so energy efficiency is a must (80 silver or gold PSU). Expecting to set gtx570 SLI and OC so need the power too. Summers here are really hot (40 ºC / 104 F) and winters cold (2 ºC /35 F), so I need a flexible and quiet cooling system. Also, i really hate fan controllers, cause that job should be automatized by the mobo IMO. I love gaming to relieve stress, but don't want to expend much more just to get 5 or 8 extra FPS. I use my builds for 5-6 years, so must to be stable and rock solid! What more can i say? cool, quiet, stable, performance, pricewise...

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Intel Core i5 2500K @ 4.0 GHz - 193€
I'd love to buy i7 2600K but i can't afford it and i do really think that, i5 should be more than enough. Actually i'm using AMD Athlon 64 X2 so judge the improve ;)

Corsair Vengeance PC3-12800 DDR3 1600 8GB 2x4GB CL9 - 46€
IMO i don't need much more. It is worth the value to sacrify capacity or expend more money on lower latencies?

Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H100 - 100€
This "bad boy" looks awesome :sol: , but at the same time is fuuu*** expensive. Lots of doubts... 5 years warranty but a lot of reported issues (dead or noisy pump). Easy installation and maintenance but incompatibilities with cases and mobos. Quiet/Low speed will be enough for the OC i5 2500K at 4.0GHz? How quiet could it be? Could it get better replacing stock fans? Some other alternatives are Noctua NH-D14, Thermalright Silver Arrow or even Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO

Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD4 B3 - 143€
Nice motherboard with a decent price. SATA III, USB 3.0, 8-pin connector far enough for the h100 radiator fan, 12 phase power VRM, SLI... Also like the p8p67 Asus family but i'm afraid the 8-pin connector could be a problem with the h100 water cooling system.

Corsair 400R Carbide Series Black- 107€
Good combo with the corsair h100. Quality materials, front usb 3.0, excellent cable management, all black cables...
I will try to turn the back fan to intake, covering openings and setting the h100 as exhaust on the roof (3 intake case fans, 2 exhaust radiator fans) to attain positive pressure inside. The fans light switch is important, cause i don't want my computer to look like a disco.

Corsair HX850 850W Modular - 150€
Tons of good reviews! modular, black cables also... (getting air from bottom). Should be enough for a OC i5 and a future SLI gtx570? Any modular 80 gold PSU alternative for less price?

MSI GeForce GTX 570 Twin Frozr III PE/OC 1280MB GDDR5 - 311€
With a decent airflow and a clean inside should work cool and quiet (when idle at least). Maybe i can save some money here? It is the gtx 570 too enthusiast?

OCZ Vertex 3 SATA3 2.5" SSD 120GB - 178€
Fast SDD SATA 3 but not prohibitive, for applications and SO. I will also drop inside my two 1.5 TB HDD for images, movies, music and all that stuff (maybe mirrowed) and a third external HDD for backups.

Ok, time to pay the bill -> 193 + 46 + 100 + 143 + 107 + 150 + 311 + 178 = 1228€ Did i miss something? Where i could save some money?
 

someguynamedmatt

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A lot of people will disagree with me and go on to rant about how it's a lot safer to run a homemade fountain in your PC than that Corsair unit, but I for one absolutely love it. I don't own one myself, but from seeing it in person and hours upon hours of web surfing, I personally feel that it's worth the money. Yes, it's expensive for the performance, but you're also paying to have two tubes and an easily concealable radiator instead of a cooling tower that sucks up three quarters of your case. If you're like me and want something that looks as nice as it runs, I'd go ahead. Don't take that the wrong way, either... you'll get cooling performance that is better than nearly every unmodified air cooler available.

Excellent PSU. You've picked the model that I always wish I had.

Lower latency RAM isn't worth the extra money. If you're an EXTREME overclocker who does nothing but benchmark runs, then it might be worth it. In any normal situation, though, the money will most likely be better spend elsewhere. I'd say you can do better for the money, though, if you went with a set of 2x4GB of G.Skill RipjawsX DDR3-1600. I don't see any on your preferred website, but if you can find some for the same price or less, I'd go for that instead.

I agree... an i5 should be more than enough for your situation. If you were doing a lot of rendering work or such, then an i7 may be a better option, but in your situation, that i5-2500k will serve you very well, especially once overclocked a bit.

http://www.pccomponentes.com/asrock_p67_extreme4_gen3.html
I'd recommend that motherboard over the gigabyte model. A little more money, but also more reliable and a little better built. Gold capacitors are a nice touch, too. If you want to see the difference, go to Newegg.com and look at reviews of both boards - you'll see that the ASRock is rated much higher.

Other than that, everything else looks good. :)
 
My thoughts:

1) The 2500K is as good as it gets.

2) The ram is OK, but if you can get any DDR3 1600 ram cheaper without high heat spreaders, then better. 1.5v ram does not need heat spreaders.

3) Drop the liquid cooling. It is not necessary for a modest OC in the 4.0-4.5 range. A good air cooler will do the job for much less, and be quieter while doing so. Look for something like a CM hyper212 or Xigmatek gaia.

4) Motherboard is OK, but here is a way to save some money. How many expansion slots might you really need? A full ATX motherboard will have 7, a Micro-atx will have 4, and a mini-ITX will have one. All will have a pci-e x16 graphics card slot. M-atx motherboards will usually be cheaper. But..., they do not easily accomodate sli graphics configurations. The close proximity of two high powered cards will cause heating problems for the top card. But... just how strong of a graphics configuration do you need?
Could not a single GTX580 or 7970 do the job? If your gaming is using a single monitor, then a good single card will do the job. You will also save on the psu. Even a GTX590 or 7970 will only need a 700w psu.

5) How many hard drives and dvd burners will you install? Most of us will install a SSD for the os, and a 2tb hard drive for storage. Do you really need all that space?
Look at a Silverstone TJ08-E M-atx case.
http://www.pccomponentes.com/silverstone_tj08_e_negra.html
It is compact with superb cooling, and relatively cheap. But... if you love the case, get it. Cases are a personal thing. Spend extra if you must for a case you love. You will be looking at it for a long time.

6) You can't go wrong with a psu from Corsair, Seasonic, Antec, XFX, or PC P&C.

7) I think a GTX570 is an appropriate card for your budget. If you ever need more, just sell it and replace it with a GTX590, 7979, or even the upcoming kepler.
I would favor a graphics card with direct exhaust cooling. Thr frozer type aftermarket coolers do a fine job on an open testbed. But in a case, they heat up both the cpu and gpu ambient air, making both your gpu AND cpu hotter than they need to be.

8) I love the SSD for the os and some apps. But, I would go with Intel or perhaps Samsung for the SSD. Here is a report on SSD return rates:
http://www.behardware.com/articles/843-7/components-returns-rates-5.html

9) Do you really never turn of your PC? Why not, are you folding or something?
If you put the pc in a sleep state, either manually, or automatically, it uses negligible power and resumes instantly.
 

kikeiros

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Jan 3, 2012
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Thanks for the fast reply :D i've also readed a lot about the corsair h100 and i'm excited with the look, the clean case inside, the performance... but i'm also really scared on the long term about all the troubles that may bring, issues and noise complains.

Your motherboard pick is cool, but as with the Asus motherboards, the 8-pin connector is too close to the top edge, and as some people reported in other forums, the corsair h100 + corsair 400r don't leave enough room to plug-in the connector.

This is not my first build, but things changes so fast... sata 3, ssd, huge coolers, cable managment :na:


 

kikeiros

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Jan 3, 2012
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1) Agree, IMO AMD is out of the game. Intel Sandy Bridge is the boss! :sol:

2) Yes, something like Kingston HyperX Blu DDR3 1600 PC3-12800 8GB 2x4GB CL9 - 42€ could be fine and fits well (lower profile) with Noctua or Silver Arrow coolers.

3) This is the tough decision. h100 is cool but expensive. I don't know if i really need it. Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO is much more cheaper, and may be as quieter.

4) The plan is to buy now one gtx570, and 2 years later a second (cheaper) one. I need 2 pci-e and space between to keep them cool with a SLI config. So thats the reason for choosing full atx and a powerful PSU. High end mobos have 3 pci-e and thats for sure unnecessary. Actually i'm running 2x Geforce 7900 Gs SLI and very happy with them.

5) Silverstone TJ08-E M-atx looks great and could be a winner option, as you say.

6) Indeed, with micro atx, other case, air cooling and a less powerful psu i can save a lot of money.

7) Reference design with direct exhaust cooling keeps the inside cooler, but makes more noise. This is something i must think about too. Expecting to have a decent airflow to counter the Twin Frozr III cooler design.

8) mmm interesting report. Intel for sure is robust, but expensive and slower. I will take the risk with OCZ or Muskin :(

9) I spend a lot of time in front this devil machine lol! With windows XP and my current rig, i have bad experiences trying to resume from sleep, and loosing part of my work. Anyway with my next build, i will give it a try again. Thanks for the tip!
 
re:

4) Do not expect the GTX570 to drop in price on the new retail market. The manufacturing costs are high, and the new replacemarket is inelastic. You will be able to buy used GTX570's at a discount. Consider, though, how eager are you to buy a used GTC285 today, now that they have dropped in price?
As an upgrade today, using a single card, you can sell the gtx570 and replace it with a GTX590 which is about the same as sli GTX570. The sale of your old card will make that a reasonabley cost effective upgrade. However when kepler or the 7970 arrives, the upgrade using a single card will be even more compelling. One nice thing about a single gpu is the avoidance of microstuttering issues and non sli support in game drivers. In the mean time, you will have saved on psu, mobo, heat, noise, and case cooling.

7) I use a GTX580 superclocked, and it is largely inaudible while doing normal desktop work. With games, I dunno, I get too involved.


8) If for a SSD you don't like intel, or samsung which did not have enough reports, consider crucial.

9) To use >4gb of ram, you will need a 64 bit os. It is my understanding that XP 64 bit was a bit unstable. Time to go to windows 7 I think.
I use sleep, but you could also use hibernate. It should go quickly with a SSD.
 

kikeiros

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Yeah! i know, my next build will have Windows 7 64bits for sure! Just delaying the change of OS until i buy the new rig.

About the graphics cards, your point sounds right for me. Maybe i should forget about SLI and just upgrade my GPU, selling first the old one, and keeping things simple. Also having a hard time to find gtx 570 with direct exhaust cooling here at Spain. Asus, MSI and Gigabyte (as main providers) all have big non-reference multi fan coolers. I really like nvidia and the GTX 570 but for a direct exhaust cooling my only option is XFX Radeon HD 6970 2GB GDDR5 - 299€

At last, let me share some SDD prices:

Crucial M4 128GB SATA3____________________(415MB/s - 175MB/s) 179€
Corsair Force Series 3 F120 SSD 120GB SATA3 __(550MB/s - 510MB/s) 174€
Intel SSD 320 Series 120GB SATA2 ___________(270MB/s - 130MB/s) 170€
Kingston HyperX SSD SATA3 2.5" SSD 120GB ___(525MB/s - 480MB/s) 213€
OCZ Vertex 3 SATA3 2.5" SSD 120GB _________(550MB/s - 500MB/s) 178€
Samsung 830 SSD Series 128GB SATA3 _______(520MB/s - 320MB/s) 178€
Mushkin Chronos 2,5" SSD 120 GB __________(550MB/s - 515MB/s) 144€
 

phenom90

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Jul 27, 2010
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so you are going to build a pc by february... and it is very close to the launch of intel ivy bridge desktop platform.... which is made from 22nm manufacturing process... hence bringing more performance per watt... although ivy bridge won't be a significant update from current sandy bridge system... it will include support for pcie 3.0... which perhaps you will be benefit from the interface when you use your pc for 5-6 years.... maybe there will be a graphics card that will chews alot of bandwidth that will make a good use of pcie 3.0.... which will save money from another upgrade... i assume that the total cost of ivy bridge platform won't be far off the current sandy bridge... just wait for 3 months... you'll get lower tdp cpu(77watts to be exact)... and nvidia may launch its next gen kepler based gpu sometime in 1st half of 2012.... the time when you build a new pc is very close to the launching of new products by these companies... i suggest you to hold off your purchase.... and wait some more... since your going to build a new pc its not going to hurt you to wait...
 

kikeiros

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You are right, but sincerely there's always a new tecnology incoming: USB, SATA, GPU, CPU, SDD, PSU connectors, new sockets... For my experience, lastest tecnologies comes with an extra price for enthusiast and release dates could easily delay. I never buy the last high end product, just the previous one :p (trying to keep my feets on the ground). I know what I can buy now (more less), and how it will perform (more less), and i'm happy with the idea. For sure, after some years, i will not be able to play lastest games at full quality, but that's not a problem.

I mean, at present I use AMD Athlon 64 X2 2.2 Ghz and Geforce 7900 Sli with a 17'' monitor (really outdated may i say) but hey! still able to play starcarft 2, 4 years later the purchase. Also programing with eclipse, mysql, jboss and all that stuff easily.

Should have said that currently i'm a bit in a hurry? The GPU is 78ºC on idle and the fan makes worrying noises. Some HDDs i use, are very old (saved from previous builds) and not more reliable. I need a change, before something in my PC blows up! :(

IMO it is a myth that a PC can be easily upgraded but this is a bit out of topic (changes in the interfaces ensure this theory). Anyway, a mobo with pci-e 3.0 support indeed could be wise.

 
The 6970 is in the same performance category as a GTX570. You could go with that. I tried a amd 5870 in the past, and tend to prefer nvidia. Just my preference. The drivers seem to be better.

Since you have a 17" monitor, you might consider a GTX560ti. It will save you a bit now, and will perform very well still.
I do not see any of the 448 cuda cores available on the web site. It would be a very close competitor to the GTX570.
As a brand, I like EVGA. http://www.pccomponentes.com/evga_geforce_gtx_560_ti_fpb_1gb_gddr5.html

It seems like the 120gb SSD's are all selling for the same 175 euros or so.
In that case, I would get the Intel 320 120gb drive.

Do not be put off by the lower synthetic benchmark speeds. Such tests are done at maximum stress and unnaturally high queue rates. Not what we actually do. The value of a ssd is in the small random i/o response times. That is what the os does mainly, about 50x the speed of a hard drive. The sequential rates are 2-3x that of a hard drive. You would be hard pressed to detect the difference in performance among any modern SSD.

Do not worry about pcie 3.0. Even a GTX580 will not be slowed down by 2.0 to a noticeable degree.
 

phenom90

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okay... since you abit hurry... here's what i recommended...

cpu: intel core i5 2500k

mobo: asrock z68 extreme3 gen3

ram: gskill sniper low voltage series 1.25v 2x4gb 1600mhz cl9

cpu cooler: corsair a70

hdd: Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 1TB

ssd: Plextor PX-M2P Series PX-128M2P

gpu: evga gtx 570

psu: coolermaster silent pro m 1000watts

case: rosewill thor v2
 

kikeiros

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I prefer p67 mobo, because i won't actually make use of virtu, neither SSD cache.

Gskill sniper is hard to find, and i don't think the low voltage is worth the price.

The air cooler looks fine, but don't know a lot about.

Don't need the hdd for this build, and also can't find providers for plextor here at Spain.

PSU is great, but i'd rather change power for efficiency (silver or gold).

Again, rosewill is hard to find and... anyway, i'm not a fan of the aesthetic.

Thanks for the build, i really appreciate your help!
 

kikeiros

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Intel Core i5 2500K @ 4.0 GHz - 193€
[strike]Corsair Vengeance PC3-12800 DDR3 1600 8GB 2x4GB CL9 - 46€[/strike] Kingston HyperX Blu DDR3 1600 PC3-12800 8GB 2x4GB CL9 - 42€
[strike]Corsair Cooling Hydro Series H100 - 100€[/strike] Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO Cooler - 29€
[strike]Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD4 B3 - 143€[/strike] Gigabyte GA-P67A-UD3P-B3 - 105€
[strike]Corsair 400R Carbide Series Black- 107€[/strike] Fractal Define R3 Black Pearl USB 3.0 - 87€
[strike]Corsair HX850 850W Modular - 150€[/strike] Seasonic X-660W Gold Modular 660W - 138€
[strike]MSI GeForce GTX 570 Twin Frozr III PE/OC 1280MB GDDR5 - 311€[/strike] XFX Radeon HD 6970 2GB GDDR5 Tarjeta Gráfica - 299€
[strike]OCZ Vertex 3 SATA3 2.5" SSD 120GB - 178€[/strike] Intel SSD 320 Series 120GB SATA2 - 170€

Ok, time to pay the bill -> [strike]193 + 46 + 100 + 143 + 107 + 150 + 311 + 178 = 1228€[/strike] 193 + 42 + 29 + 105 + 87 + 138 + 299 + 170 = 1063€
 

phenom90

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okay... another suggestions....

cpu: core i5 2500k

mobo: asrock p67 extreme4 gen3

ram: corsair vengeance low profile 1.5v 1600mhz cl9 2x4gb ddr3

ssd: crucial m4 128gb sata iii

gpu: evga gtx 570

psu: XFX PRO850W XXX Edition Semi-Modular 80 Plus Silver

cpu cooler: corsair a70

case: fractal design arc midi tower