Processor bottlenecking..?

[spathotan]

New to the forums but im a long-time Tomshardware reader. Anyways, I browsed the forums for awhile and saw a couple threads somewhat related to my question, but not directly at the same time. I use a Micro-ATX system I built myself, got tired of having a big tower, but thats not the question. I got a 8800GT Superclocked last week, I score 9217 on 3Dmark06, but ive seen scores of 14000 with this card in non-SLi/non-quadcore systems.

I should be able to max out games like Everquest 2 with great FPS, but I cant, even with 4GB of ram (only 3 being used, running Vista 32). I cant even max ET: Quake Wars without running at 10-20FPS. This is on a 22inch monitor, 1680 x 1050. Ive rulled out the card overheating, it runs at 49c idle and 61c under full load for 3+ hours. So the only things I can figure are A. The processor is holding the card back, or B. The motherboard's PCI-E might only be 8x. Ive looked up the mobo decently, but can find nothing determining if the slot is 8 or full 16x. Quite bluntly, the card is currently performing "barely" better than the 2600XT it replaced, keep in mind I didnt run 3DMark06 with that.

So at this point im pondering upgrading the motherboard and processor, maybe the 6400+ Black, $209 at Newegg, but im hoping the price drops significantly after the Phenoms. I dont need a quadcore and im not too fond of the pricetag, as im trying to keep the cost of the processor, motherboard, and case under $500. I have the 3 components picked out, but I need a second opinion on the processor, and of course all of the above.

**EDIT** I guess it would help if I told my current processor. AMD 4800+ X2 Brisbane.

 

[epsilon84]

http://www.techspot.com/article/67-quake-wars-performance/page5.html

Well, it seems you need a E6750 or faster CPU to not 'bottleneck' a 8800GTX (or 8800GT for that matter, since it performs so close to it)

Still, even with a relatively big CPU bottleneck, an E6320 is getting 70fps, even an E4300 is getting 61fps, so your X2 4800+ should be getting similar framerates. I doubt an 8x PCI-E would affect performance much, it's only when you drop down to 4x that performance begins to suffer noticeably on high end cards.

Are you talking about minimum framerate 'dips' to 10 - 20fps during intense firefights, or is it a consistent slideshow at that framerate? Have you tried overclocking your CPU to see if it helps? Most Brisbane core chips can overclock to around 3GHz or so, if overclocking boosts framerates a bit then you are CPU bottlenecked.

 

[spathotan]

Thanks for the info. Well im on a micro-ATX board, so overclocking the processor is out of the question. Ive checked, basically zero options. This thing is 2.4ghz, I put it at 2.6 and I couldnt get the system to POST. According to the PC Charts here, the AMD 6000+ benches between the Intel E6600 and E6750, and the 4800+ is SIGNIFICANTLY weaker, even the damn Pentium D 840 plows it by 100-400 points in most benches.

 

[jitpublisher]

Try lowering your memory speed first, I'll wager that is why it won't post.

 

[Reynod]

Have you tried overclocking it using one of the overclocking an A64 threads here?

You can't just pump up the jam without looking at your :

RAM speed and timings (divider too)
Core voltage
HT Link speed ... gotta drop it from 5 to 4

Try a bit of light reading here then move it up slowly.

With cheap ram here you would probably have to loosen the timings or change the divider, and raise the core a bit).

Anyway ... have a read and good luck.

Just google A64 Overclocking ... there are tons of links there.

No way are any of the Pentium D's as good as an X2 ... core 2 yes.

If it is an AM2 mobo you might be able to put a phenom quad in it soon.

If it is a 939 your stuck - In that case I'd suggest a decent 775 mobo and a Qx6600 Core2 or an AM2+ and a Phenon (if and when they arrive).

 

[spathotan]

Its socket AM2. My RAM is running at 800mhz, and I cant really do much with it period with this motherboard, Micro-ATX and AMD690G Chipset, the BIOS options are just not there, at least not anything serious. I want to get into overclocking again like I was a year ago, hince why Im looking at the 6400+ X2 Black Edition. Im also looking at the Foxconn 590 board to go along with it. Also, my statement about the Pentium D 840 beating the 4800+ X2 is from the CPU Benchmarks here on toms, the D scores 300 points higher in PCMark05, and scores higher in a few other random test, that may or may not be correct.

 

[epsilon84]

Have you tried using a Windows based overclocking utility like Clockgen?
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/CPU-Tweak/ClockGen.shtml

If that fails, and you want to get back into overclocking, you may as well skip the X2 and get a C2D instead, they have much more overclocking headroom than the current X2s, especially the X2 6400+ which is pretty much maxed out on the current 90nm process. You'll be lucky to get an extra 300MHz out of an X2 6400+, whereas you're looking at easy 1GHz+ overclocks on C2Ds.

 

[spathotan]

Hmm, is Clockgen reputable? I remember overclocking with ntune back in the day and it caused me some issues, nothing serious though. Ill give Clockgen a try, thanks for the link.

 

[spathotan]

Ok, I tinkered with clockgen for abit, and I did manage to get my proc to 2.67ghz, any further and the system crashes HARD. Ran 3dmark06 at 2.61ghz and it boosted my score by a massive 40 points lol. So I got preety furious and im deciding to go back to a Intel/nVidia setup. Thinking about going with these 2 components.....

Motherboard - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128053
Processor - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017

What do you guys think? I know the new penyrns are comming out in a few weeks?, but i really dont want to pay over $400 for the upgrades. This combo here comes to $414 which is already pushing it.

 

[epsilon84]

I'm not sure how that mobo handles overclocking C2Qs though... is there any review of the mobo on the net?

If you want to keep costs down just get an E4500 and crank up the FSB, these chips should do 3GHz+ easily, even with stock Vcore and HSF.

 

[spathotan]

I read most of the reviews of the motherboard on newegg there. A few people have gotten the C2Q up to 3.0 and the E8xxx up to 3.4. Personally I consider a 600mhz OC on the Quad preety damn decent. I wont complain.

 

[Reynod]

The reviews on the D's here are crap ... they just don't add up.

I'd recommend an Intel quad.

That's a bitter pill for an AMD Fanboi to swallow ... but nevertheless AMD have nothing presently to counter.

A lower end quad on a decent mobo with some good RAM will see the system lasting you while a while too.

Good luck

 

[jerseygamer]

The problem with his CPU is its a locked multiplier. I know I know you all knew that already LOL! To be realistic though on most systems with generic ram and a so-so MB you are not going to push that chip from 2.4 to 2.6. You end up over working your system. I picked up the A8n32sli-delux and some Corsair. With that MB and that ram I was able to push my x2 3800 to 2.6 on air with lots of noise. Keep in mind you will need to increase some volts pretty much right off the bat. Even getting .2 out of that cpu is going to require more power.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I canr see this as a cpu issue. Something else is wrong. Even if youre getting 'just' 9xxx bungholio marks, youre getting crappy fps in real gaming. You usually dont see this sort of thing. A 2600xt shouldnt be able to hold a candle to a 8800gt. Same cpu or not. Look here http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=883&num=1 there is something wrong here and its NOT cpu. Youd do better by deleting all your ati drivers using driver cleaner, redownloading the newest nVidia drivers, THEN see what happens. It could even be a power issue, since you havnt posted your psu. 61C isnt hot for that card as well.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

double post

 

[kona]

I would agree with what Jaydeejohn said. I simply don't believe that an X2 4800 is already completely obsolete. I am running an X24200 with a 7900GT (waiting to see more benchmarks on the 3870 VS 8800GT before I upgrade). I have not played ET yet but will give it a try and see what happens. I know that when I played company of heroes I played it for hours and hours at a time with it all the way maxed out on settings when I had an X2 3800 with the same card and 2 gigs of good DDR400 (squeezing all the life I can get out of my platform before I rebuild... ) and it ran fine for 4 + hours at a time then it would start to slow down a bit as the room heated up and so to did my components... But it played well and that is a processor intensive game. I will get ET and see what happens with it and post back if that would be helpful.

 

[Rolenio]

x2 4800+ is actually a decent processor for games, forget benchmarks. It's waay better than any Pentium D, even a x2 3800+ would be. I agree with jaydee - it's probably not a CPU issue.

 

[spathotan]

As an above poster said, yes I had to up the voltage a tiny bit to get it to 2.6, and I droped it back down as soon as I finished 3Dmark06. Im getting fine FPS in my games at high settings, but nothing like I should be according to all the benchmarks/test on this card, for instance if I turn shadows on in EQ2 my FPS gets owned in the face, bad, im talking 15-20FPS difference. It could be a combination of minor problems I suppose, My micro-atx board (Sapphire Pure Element btw), 4 RAM sticks in it and running Vista 32(obviously only 3.2gb shows).

My power supply is a 530W Hiper, has two 12V @ 20A and 17A. And my RAM is two 2GB sets(4GB total) of G.Skill DDR2-800. I really dont think the power supply is a problem, as I dont really have anything in the system other than the absolutes, I dont have several HD's or CD drives, only 1 video card and 3 case fans.