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Photographs use legality people public etc etc

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Anonymous
May 10, 2005 5:12:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Hi all,
I have a legal question, of course understanding that I am asking professional
photographers not attorneys - but if anyone knows, you all will.

I am wondering what my liability is in using people in photographs.... example
1: Let's say I am at a festival or fair or something that is obviously open to
the public, but is on sort of private property, i.e. a real estate
development/community like www.sandestin.com or maybe on a church grounds or
something. If I am walking around shooting images of people doing things and I
anticipate using these images in things like websites or brochures or
newsletters for realtors, am I allowed to have images of these
arbitrary/stranngers people in my printed media?

Does it matter that the photos were taken on (sort of) private property even
though it was a public event?

OK, example 2: Let's say I am walking down the street and want to shoot folks
having lunch at an outdoor patio of a restaurant or something... am I allowed to
print that image(s) into brochures, newsletters, etc.

Does this stuff/legal issues change if I am using the images for things in an
effort to generate revenue?

Are there websites, etc. that you guys can point me to that might illuminate all
this for me?

Thanks in advance a ton for the help, answers, input.

Very sincerely
Tim
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 5:12:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Destin_FL wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have a legal question, of course understanding that I am asking
professional
> photographers not attorneys - but if anyone knows, you all will.
>
> I am wondering what my liability is in using people in
photographs.... example
> 1: Let's say I am at a festival or fair or something that is
obviously open to
> the public, but is on sort of private property, i.e. a real estate
> development/community like www.sandestin.com or maybe on a church
grounds or
> something. If I am walking around shooting images of people doing
things and I
> anticipate using these images in things like websites or brochures or

> newsletters for realtors, am I allowed to have images of these
> arbitrary/stranngers people in my printed media?
>
> Does it matter that the photos were taken on (sort of) private
property even
> though it was a public event?
>
> OK, example 2: Let's say I am walking down the street and want to
shoot folks
> having lunch at an outdoor patio of a restaurant or something... am I
allowed to
> print that image(s) into brochures, newsletters, etc.
>
> Does this stuff/legal issues change if I am using the images for
things in an
> effort to generate revenue?
>
> Are there websites, etc. that you guys can point me to that might
illuminate all
> this for me?
>
> Thanks in advance a ton for the help, answers, input.
>
> Very sincerely
> Tim

It sounds like you're going to use those shots in advertising brochures
and fliers. If that's the case, you absolutely need model releases from
every identifiable person.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 5:12:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

My submission for the most recent SI: "Parents" was taken
downtown last week during a parade. As I don't expect to
profit from this pic, I didn't worry about obtaining model releases.

http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/43126736
Related resources
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 6:41:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Destin_FL wrote:
> OK, if I do not specifically SELL the photograph to for instance, my
client, but
> my client (usually a Realtor) uses the image in marketing materials
to
> (hopefully) bring him more business, how does that effect the
legalities?
>
> Also, I have gotten wonderful answers from several of you; thanks so
much.....
> one of the common nuances seems to be "identifiable" persons; these
of course
> would all be strangers to me, so does identifiable apply, or does
that term
> identifiable actually mean = I need to walk up to them because I can
> specifically "identify" them as being in that shot I just took / am
about to
> take
>
> Tim
>
Identifiable means that they can idenity themselves, or someone who
knows them can identify them. Whether or not you know them is
irrelevant.

While you may never get caught, you cannot legally use another person's
image for commercial purposes without permission.

As an incidental point, this may vary from place to place around the
world, but within the U.S., it does not vary.
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 6:42:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

OK, if I do not specifically SELL the photograph to for instance, my client, but
my client (usually a Realtor) uses the image in marketing materials to
(hopefully) bring him more business, how does that effect the legalities?

Also, I have gotten wonderful answers from several of you; thanks so much.....
one of the common nuances seems to be "identifiable" persons; these of course
would all be strangers to me, so does identifiable apply, or does that term
identifiable actually mean = I need to walk up to them because I can
specifically "identify" them as being in that shot I just took / am about to
take

Tim






"Annika1980" <annika1980@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1115753729.321964.136600@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
My submission for the most recent SI: "Parents" was taken
downtown last week during a parade. As I don't expect to
profit from this pic, I didn't worry about obtaining model releases.

http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/43126736
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 11:21:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> I am wondering what my liability is in using people in photographs....

This should be added to an FAQ for all the rec.photo and alt.photo groups.

--
Mark

Photos, Ideas & Opinions
http://www.marklauter.com
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 11:25:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Destin_FL wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have a legal question, of course understanding that I am asking
> professional photographers not attorneys - but if anyone knows, you
> all will.

Different areas will have different requirements.

In the most likely situations, if you are standing in a public area, you
can take photographs. There are exceptions. For example most authorities
would not include photographs through a window using a high power telephoto
lens. I would also be careful about photographs of children. Now the
second issue is "..am I allowed to have images of these arbitrary/stranngers
people in my printed media?" Generally not if you can identify the
individual.

I suggest you get the opinion from a local attorney before publishing
any such images.

>
> I am wondering what my liability is in using people in
> photographs.... example 1: Let's say I am at a festival or fair or
> something that is obviously open to the public, but is on sort of
> private property, i.e. a real estate development/community like
> www.sandestin.com or maybe on a church grounds or something. If I
> am walking around shooting images of people doing things and I
> anticipate using these images in things like websites or brochures or
> newsletters for realtors, am I allowed to have images of these
> arbitrary/stranngers people in my printed media?
>
> Does it matter that the photos were taken on (sort of) private
> property even though it was a public event?
>
> OK, example 2: Let's say I am walking down the street and want to
> shoot folks having lunch at an outdoor patio of a restaurant or
> something... am I allowed to print that image(s) into brochures,
> newsletters, etc.
>
> Does this stuff/legal issues change if I am using the images for
> things in an effort to generate revenue?
>
> Are there websites, etc. that you guys can point me to that might
> illuminate all this for me?
>
> Thanks in advance a ton for the help, answers, input.
>
> Very sincerely
> Tim

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 11:37:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Destin_FL" <mounttimmy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:GP6ge.4007$cf5.1180@lakeread07...
> Hi all,
> I have a legal question, of course understanding that I am asking
> professional
> photographers not attorneys - but if anyone knows, you all will.
>
> I am wondering what my liability is in using people in photographs....
> example
> 1: Let's say I am at a festival or fair or something that is obviously
> open to
> the public, but is on sort of private property, i.e. a real estate
> development/community like www.sandestin.com or maybe on a church grounds
> or
> something. If I am walking around shooting images of people doing things
> and I
> anticipate using these images in things like websites or brochures or
> newsletters for realtors, am I allowed to have images of these
> arbitrary/stranngers people in my printed media?
>
> Does it matter that the photos were taken on (sort of) private property
> even
> though it was a public event?
>
> OK, example 2: Let's say I am walking down the street and want to shoot
> folks
> having lunch at an outdoor patio of a restaurant or something... am I
> allowed to
> print that image(s) into brochures, newsletters, etc.
>
> Does this stuff/legal issues change if I am using the images for things in
> an
> effort to generate revenue?
>
> Are there websites, etc. that you guys can point me to that might
> illuminate all
> this for me?
>
> Thanks in advance a ton for the help, answers, input.
>
> Very sincerely
> Tim
>
I'm almost positive you can use the photos for news shots -- newspaper
photogs rarely if ever have to get a release of everyone in a photo as long
as it's in a public place (I used to work for AP). However, if the photo is
to be used commercially you must get a release. I also think if the person
is a public figure photos are much more lax. In other words, you can take a
photo of the president or a movie star and you don't have to get anything
from them. Now, if you are going to use the photo in an ad, you'll be in
big trouble without a release.

I got a photo of a movie star in a prison exercise yard from the building
across the street. Made a lot of front pages and nobody said a word, except
my editor who loved me. I think a lot of your answers will be in an AP
Stylebook.
>
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 1:07:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> OK, if I do not specifically SELL the photograph to for instance, my
client, but
> my client (usually a Realtor) uses the image in marketing materials to
> (hopefully) bring him more business, how does that effect the legalities?

Then the photo is being used for commercial use and the rule posted by
Charlie Self applies.

--
Mark

Photos, Ideas & Opinions
http://www.marklauter.com
May 11, 2005 1:58:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Annika1980 wrote:
> My submission for the most recent SI: "Parents" was taken
> downtown last week during a parade. As I don't expect to
> profit from this pic, I didn't worry about obtaining model releases.
>
> http://www.pbase.com/shootin/image/43126736
>

Bret, I can't help it so I have to comment... those people look like
they're about to rat you out. :) 

--
jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 2:56:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

WHat about these 2 scenarios:

Street scene, strangers walking, i take a candid photo of somebody
with / without their awareness. Later i use that shot in

an art exhibition
a coffee table book of photos

I never got their name in the first place and have no clue who they
are...
May 11, 2005 4:11:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Destin_FL wrote:
> OK, if I do not specifically SELL the photograph to for instance, my client, but
> my client (usually a Realtor) uses the image in marketing materials to
> (hopefully) bring him more business, how does that effect the legalities?

<snip>
If I were the local business man, I would also be concerned that my advertising would
annoy potential customers. and their friends, who don't like their photos to be taken
when they aren't ready, and especially to have their photos used commercially.
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 7:58:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Most photo contests insist that people in photographs have
given the photographer written permission to use their image.

I know of a case where this in part also applies to objects
as well. A friend of mine has a particularity nice restored
old car and series of ad's that used this image without his
permission (Including one with the license plate visible)
were pulled because he objected.

A local television station called my house a few months
ago asking permission to run a story that had the house in
one of the shots they intended to run. (Permission granted
I had no idea they were even there and the story had
nothing to do with my family or the house.)

If in doubt get permission.

w..


fanciman wrote:

> WHat about these 2 scenarios:
>
> Street scene, strangers walking, i take a candid photo of somebody
> with / without their awareness. Later i use that shot in
>
> an art exhibition
> a coffee table book of photos
>
> I never got their name in the first place and have no clue who they
> are...
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 9:43:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I want to thank you all for your time and input. The answers were about what I
expected. Can't go around willy nilly shooting people. :) 

For specific scenarios I will check with a local attorney, but you all have
certainly explained things perfectly.
I really do appreciate it.

I saw an idea that this might be worthy of being in a rec.photo FAQ; I would
think so too. As these fantastic dSLR's get into the hands of so many more
people, there will inevitably be more instances of amateurs receiving payment
for photography, and they should be informed when and where they can use images
of people and objects.

Sincerely,

Tim







_________
If in doubt get permission.

w..
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 10:49:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

fanciman wrote:

> WHat about these 2 scenarios:
>
> Street scene, strangers walking, i take a candid photo of somebody
> with / without their awareness. Later i use that shot in
>
> an art exhibition
> a coffee table book of photos
>
> I never got their name in the first place and have no clue who they
> are...

You are kidding, right?
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 5:17:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <428263CF.450D5C3C@bytecraft.com>, walter@bytecraft.com (Walter
Banks) wrote:

> A local television station called my house a few months
> ago asking permission to run a story that had the house in
> one of the shots they intended to run. (Permission granted
> I had no idea they were even there and the story had
> nothing to do with my family or the house.)
I saw that! It was a program about neighbours who have to endure other
neighbours who are always taking photos of everything. They named names,
showed where they lived and everything! ;-)

Iain
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 7:18:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Thu, 12 May 2005 13:17:37 GMT, in rec.photo.digital ,
i.laskeyNOT@blueyonder.co.uk (Iain Laskey) in
<memo.20050512141735.3928A@ilba14195.www.blueyonder.co.uk&gt; wrote:

>In article <428263CF.450D5C3C@bytecraft.com>, walter@bytecraft.com (Walter
>Banks) wrote:
>
>> A local television station called my house a few months
>> ago asking permission to run a story that had the house in
>> one of the shots they intended to run. (Permission granted
>> I had no idea they were even there and the story had
>> nothing to do with my family or the house.)
>I saw that! It was a program about neighbours who have to endure other
>neighbours who are always taking photos of everything. They named names,
>showed where they lived and everything! ;-)

Yeah, but did you tape it or just take pictures of the TV screen?


--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
!