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Ivy Bridge: i7 or i5 ???

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April 24, 2012 6:25:20 PM

Ivy Bridge: i7 or i5 ???

I've never had Intel before so, how do I determine if I need an Ivy Bridge i7 3770 or if an IB i5 3570 will due just fine?

I have no intention of overclocking because;

1. I'm no gamer (occasional online stuff)
2. I want my system to have a very long lifespan.

Is there a noticeable difference between the i7 3770 and the i5 3570? Is it worth the extra $100?

The only differences I see between the i7 and i5 are:

- $100

- i7 has 4 cores/8 threads while the i5 has 4/4.

How much of a difference will this make and where?

- i7 has HD4000 graphics while i5 has HD2500. I'd prefer the 4k graphics for obvious reasons.

According to this review the i5 3570k was a larger improvement over the Sandy i5 2500k (8%). While the i7 3770k is only a 5% improvement over the Sandy i7 2700:

Desktop Ivy Bridge. Intel Core i7-3770K and Core i5-3570K Processors Review
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-37...

* However, the Ivy Bridge CPU's consume about 20% less power:

Quote:
"There were rumors that Intel increased the TDP of the senior 22nm CPUs to 95 watts although had planned to set it at 77 watts. Intel representatives told us that it was just a rumor, though. The actual TDP of the new CPUs, including the Core i7-3770K, is indeed limited to 77 watts but 95 watts is written on their packaging in order to maintain the standard scale of 35/65/95 watts that many Intel partners have got used to. Thus, the Ivy Bridge series can be expected to consume about 20% less power compared to the 95-watt CPUs with the previous microarchitecture."

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-37...

More about : ivy bridge

April 24, 2012 6:34:58 PM

Oh yeah, I do actually plan on rendering HD video on the Adobe CS 4 I have now and eventually the CS 6 when it comes out soon. So, perhaps the Ivy Bridge i7 3770 is a better choice with the extra 4 threads of support?
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April 24, 2012 7:08:27 PM

Possible, but you would be better off getting a faster GPU which would significantly boost speeds, although it looks like for CS6, they are forcing people to get Quadro cards for this particular benefit.
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April 24, 2012 7:53:14 PM

Video rendering is not about a GPU (unless recourse to GPU rendering). It is all about the power of the processor and the RAM. The more the better. GPU kicks-in for Mercury Playback Engine.
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April 24, 2012 8:01:31 PM

Ivy Bridge, with the exception of graphics, improvement over Sandy Bridge is negligible. If your PC need is just usual browsing, email, itunes, etc., i5 3570 should be sufficient. You may save that $100.

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April 24, 2012 8:13:18 PM
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Doing Adobe CS?
Go for i7.. it's the best bet
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April 24, 2012 8:16:30 PM

The biggest difference between i5 and i7 i that the latter has hyperthreading. Your stated usage is video rendering and you 'll see just about every video buff site offering sample builds using HT enabled CPUs, high speed / low CAS RAM and CUDA enabled GPUs. BTW, there are many CUDA enabled programs used in video rendering but Adobe only officially supports certain nVidia cards with CUDA with the Mercury Playback Engine. However, you can unlock it using the technique here:

http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/PremiereCS5....

Quote:
Adobe Premiere CS5 and Adobe Premiere CS5.5 has the new Mercury Playback Engine (MPE) that can use an NVidia video card’s GPU to accelerate playback, effects and rendering.

However, Adobe has only “certified” a few video cards from NVIDIA. (See Note 1, About Adobe's Certified Video Cards). According to Adobe, they only certify video cards that have gone through rigorous testing by Adobe which takes a lot of time. With all of the different video cards from NVidia and the variations of these video cards from the various manufacturers, it's easy to understand why Adobe doesn't certify more video cards.

If you don't have a certified card and want to use a non-certified NVidia video card, there is a way to edit a file and add your video card to a list, so Adobe Premiere CS5 and CS5.5 will allow your video card to run with GPU Acceleration.
April 25, 2012 2:13:18 PM

Oh good, thanks for all the great responses as they're all very helpful to me since I'm just an old guy trying to figure out what's best for me. We have a small home business. We have to build our own websites, create our own product description videos and DVD's and do fairly large uploads to our manufacturer. This new system is mostly for work but also serves as our home computer too. We use these almost everyday:

Adobe CS, Office, Word, Photo Shop, XSite Pro (website building). We also create powerpoint lectures, making/rendering HD videos and music. We'd like to be able to create 3D graphics and 3D web design. We occasionally use Skype, watch movies, occasional minor online gaming.

I was considering an i7 for the hyperthreading and wondered if the HD4000 integrated GPU would be enough or if I needed to also get a discrete GPU along the lines of say an NVidia 650 - is that enough or no? I may wait to see which cards Adobe chooses first.

Our current system was built in 04 or 05:

Mobo: MSI RS480M - http://www.msi.com/product/mb/RS480M.html
http://www.xpcgear.com/msirs480mil.html

CPU: AMD 1.6 Sempron (upgraded to 2.1 Athlon 3200 last year)
RAM: 512 (upgraded to 2g last year)
HD: WD 80g (WD 500g new)
PSU: 250w
GPU: ATI Radeon Xpress 200 Series -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xpress_200
OS: XP SP3
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April 25, 2012 2:59:31 PM

josejones said:


Adobe CS, Office, Word, Photo Shop, XSite Pro (website building). We also create powerpoint lectures, making/rendering HD videos and music. We'd like to be able to create 3D graphics and 3D web design. We occasionally use Skype, watch movies, occasional minor online gaming.

I was considering an i7 and wondered if the HD4000 integrated GPU would be enough or if I needed to also get a discrete GPU along the lines of say an NVidia 650 - is that enough or no?



GPU
Wow..that is going to be an all-round workhorse. You would definitely need a good GPU. The HD4000 integrated GPU will not be sufficient.

For videos, people generally go ga-ga over CUDA Cores. For gaming, you need a damn good GPU (the best at the moment is GTX 680 - out of stock). You may want the best of both worlds for gaming and video by throwing in a GTX 680 and a Quadros (4000 or 5000) or Radeon. If you are using Radeon, you have to take the OpenCL. Please click the link below, scroll down to the reply by one of the senior-most members "TheGreatGrapeApe" and his take on CUDA and OpenCL. You may or may not subscribe to those views. I am not sure about the 3D aspects of GPU.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/forum2.php?config=t...

josejones said:
Our current system was built in 04 or 05:


Build
What's your budget please? Do you want to overclock? The videos are are all about the speed, performance and power (so, CPU, RAM, and HDD) and less about GPU (unless you take the GPU rendering route). A good GPU would be useful for the MPE.

IVY Bridge is the latest and therefore I would recommend i7 3770K (K allows you to overclock). A good mobo, although people report heat issues if we overclock this CPU, may be able to give you a stable overclock (say, 4.5GHz..I am just guessing the numbers). If you are very keen on over-clocking, I would even suggest a Sandy Bridge, which is the best processor with amazing over-clocking potentials. You would then be set until Skymont CPU release.

let's know the budget. Folks on this forum would reel out fantastic spec for you....



April 25, 2012 3:15:16 PM

Thanks SSri,

I will never overclock especially from what I've been hearing on Ivy Bridge reviews so far due to the heat issues but also, I want long lifespan. The Ivy Bridge i7 3770 even at stock would be an amazing performance boost for us already that I wouldn't even need to overclock. I'd rather have the PCIe 3.0 support and other newer features of the Ivy Bridge and z77 boards than overclock. I'll probably keep this new computer until it dies.

I do have a thread here entitled:

New Ivy Bridge Work Build $1,500
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/333702-31-bridge-work...

Honestly, I'm hoping to build my new system for between $1,000 and $1,200 but, if it's REALLY worth it I'll push to $1,500.
April 25, 2012 3:19:01 PM

josejones said:
Ivy Bridge: i7 or i5 ???

I've never had Intel before so, how do I determine if I need an Ivy Bridge i7 3770 or if an IB i5 3570 will due just fine?

I have no intention of overclocking because;

1. I'm no gamer (occasional online stuff)
2. I want my system to have a very long lifespan.

Is there a noticeable difference between the i7 3770 and the i5 3570? Is it worth the extra $100?

The only differences I see between the i7 and i5 are:

- $100

- i7 has 4 cores/8 threads while the i5 has 4/4.

How much of a difference will this make and where?

- i7 has HD4000 graphics while i5 has HD2500. I'd prefer the 4k graphics for obvious reasons.

According to this review the i5 3570k was a larger improvement over the Sandy i5 2500k (8%). While the i7 3770k is only a 5% improvement over the Sandy i7 2700:

Desktop Ivy Bridge. Intel Core i7-3770K and Core i5-3570K Processors Review
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-37...

* However, the Ivy Bridge CPU's consume about 20% less power:

Quote:
"There were rumors that Intel increased the TDP of the senior 22nm CPUs to 95 watts although had planned to set it at 77 watts. Intel representatives told us that it was just a rumor, though. The actual TDP of the new CPUs, including the Core i7-3770K, is indeed limited to 77 watts but 95 watts is written on their packaging in order to maintain the standard scale of 35/65/95 watts that many Intel partners have got used to. Thus, the Ivy Bridge series can be expected to consume about 20% less power compared to the 95-watt CPUs with the previous microarchitecture."

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-37...



get a core i3 processor. u dont need a an i5 or i7 buddy thast a waste of money. an i3 will render things to you know. just serfing the web and rendering here and there is dumb to get an i5 or i7. especially an ivy brige no offense but ur jus a poser with to much cash to spend
April 25, 2012 4:02:41 PM

diablo34life said:
get a core i3 processor. u dont need a an i5 or i7 buddy thast a waste of money. an i3 will render things to you know. just serfing the web and rendering here and there is dumb to get an i5 or i7. especially an ivy brige no offense but ur jus a poser with to much cash to spend

Poser? Well I don't know maybe or maybe not define "poser" please. I'm trying to build a new system I can use for the work that we do. I've always settled for "just enough" in the past and I don't want to do that this time. I'm completely fine with having an 'overkill' CPU this time. I cannot afford to keep waiting for the CPU to finish. If that makes me a poser then I'm a poser.
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April 25, 2012 4:43:27 PM

You have good recommendations on that link. Given your requirements with no overclock, get either the i7 3570K (£212+?) that has HD4000 or i7 3770 ($278+). The i7 3770K would cost you about £313+. The 3570K would save you $100. You may use onboard graphics and check if that's fine for your requirements. If you are not happy, you can always throw-in a GPU.

My recommendation would be IB over SB as you are getting a new PC after 7 years. It is therefore a pretty good switch.

I think you should continue your discussion on that treat and close this. I believe you no longer need this tread.
April 25, 2012 4:50:10 PM

josejones said:
Poser? Well I don't know maybe or maybe not define "poser" please. I'm trying to build a new system I can use for the work that we do. I've always settled for "just enough" in the past and I don't want to do that this time. I'm completely fine with having an 'overkill' CPU this time. I cannot afford to keep waiting for the CPU to finish. If that makes me a poser then I'm a poser.


ur asking for advice and other peoples opinions on an i5 and i7 and you have very little knowlege of them.... if you really dont know that much about them then u shouldnt be purchasing such high end cpus
April 25, 2012 6:38:52 PM

diablo34life said:
ur asking for advice and other peoples opinions on an i5 and i7 and you have very little knowlege of them.... if you really dont know that much about them then u shouldnt be purchasing such high end cpus

Are you an electrical engineer? Do you know much about electricity? If not, by your level of reasoning you shouldn't be using it.

I don't think you're being fair here at all. What the hell is this forum for if not to be able to ask for advice? The fact that I'm here asking for advice from those who DO know far more about CPU's than I do (since I'm just an old guy) doesn't change the fact that loads people like me use computers without knowing all the details of every component. If you're not interested in this thread just keep in mind that nobody is twisting your arm forcing you to post here; you are free to ignore this thread. Otherwise, you're just trolling.
April 25, 2012 6:41:41 PM

Best answer selected by josejones.
April 25, 2012 9:11:58 PM

josejones said:
Are you an electrical engineer? Do you know much about electricity? If not, by your level of reasoning you shouldn't be using it.

I don't think you're being fair here at all. What the hell is this forum for if not to be able to ask for advice? The fact that I'm here asking for advice from those who DO know far more about CPU's than I do (since I'm just an old guy) doesn't change the fact that loads people like me use computers without knowing all the details of every component. If you're not interested in this thread just keep in mind that nobody is twisting your arm forcing you to post here; you are free to ignore this thread. Otherwise, you're just trolling.


go buy a formula one race car for city driving bud. thats what ur doing lol
start off with something MODERATE like an i3. you will learn FAR more then starting off an i3 . then you learn about upgrading bud. so your trying to learn here? well u should know that there are no shortcuts to get to the top.
April 26, 2012 10:12:18 AM

diablo34life said:
get a core i3 processor. u dont need a an i5 or i7 buddy thast a waste of money. an i3 will render things to you know. just serfing the web and rendering here and there is dumb to get an i5 or i7. especially an ivy brige no offense but ur jus a poser with to much cash to spend


Yeah, let's take the advice from a guy who's incapable of formulating halfway coherent sentences :ange: 





April 26, 2012 11:10:04 AM

diablo34life said:
go buy a formula one race car for city driving bud. thats what ur doing lol
start off with something MODERATE like an i3. you will learn FAR more then starting off an i3 . then you learn about upgrading bud. so your trying to learn here? well u should know that there are no shortcuts to get to the top.


Sorry but I have to step in here and say that Diablo34life, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

So if I want a high end system, I must first start with something slow and then work my way up? NO... I buy the high end components and I learn from there.

The OP was asking advice, he wants a fast and powerful system for rendering.

You're a TROLL, bud.
April 26, 2012 11:11:40 AM

I can't believe the audacity of people like Diablo34life
April 26, 2012 11:19:01 AM

josejones said:
Are you an electrical engineer? Do you know much about electricity? If not, by your level of reasoning you shouldn't be using it.

I don't think you're being fair here at all. What the hell is this forum for if not to be able to ask for advice? The fact that I'm here asking for advice from those who DO know far more about CPU's than I do (since I'm just an old guy) doesn't change the fact that loads people like me use computers without knowing all the details of every component. If you're not interested in this thread just keep in mind that nobody is twisting your arm forcing you to post here; you are free to ignore this thread. Otherwise, you're just trolling.


JoseJones, don't pay any attention to this guy. We welcome you here and will endeavour to answer any questions you may have regarding any piece of computer hardware, whether it's high-end or low-end.

The Core i7 is your best bet, just to reiterate what you've decided to go with.

Bear in mind though, that Hyperthreading means two logical threads per core. That means that if a process is using two threads of the same core, they will have to compete over how much of that core they can each use. Think of one core being divided in half, and two processes being able to use it. Maybe one process will use 25% of the core, that means that the second process can use up to 75% of that core.

This means that Hyperthreading doesn't double the amount of processing power, it simply means that incredible power is dedicated to potentially more processes.
April 26, 2012 1:29:31 PM

Thanks for the support. I've never been called a "poser" before just for wanting a killer system. I've always gone sort of cheaper in the past and paid dearly for it in the long run by it taking so long to get things done. I don't want to do that this time. That's why I'm switching from AMD over to Intel in order to get my projects or work done much faster, which will enable me to get more things done in a day and make myself more $$$.

I am very seriously leaning towards the i7 3770 but, just wondered if the difference between the i7 and the i5 was noticeable or not and if it was worth the extra $100. That's all I needed out of this thread. I'm keeping an eye on reviews and benchmarks plus, I'll wait until the end of June/July to buy to make sure any bios, drivers and bug issues are dealt with before I buy - special thanks to advice from very helpful and knowledgeable peeps here at Tom's. I'm just an old guy trying to make sure I get the right system for us this time and the work that we do in our small business. We work around 12 hours a day on average, our computers are on from the time we wake up until we go to bed pretty much every day. So, any helpful advice I get is always greatly appreciated.
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April 26, 2012 1:45:01 PM

josejones said:
Thanks for the support. I've never been called a "poser" before just for wanting a killer system. I've always gone sort of cheaper in the past and paid dearly for it in the long run by it taking so long to get things done. I don't want to do that this time. That's why I'm switching from AMD over to Intel in order to get my projects or work done much faster, which will enable me to get more things done in a day and make myself more $$$.

I am very seriously leaning towards the i7 3770 but, just wondered if the difference between the i7 and the i5 was noticeable or not and if it was worth the extra $100. That's all I needed out of this thread. I'm keeping an eye on reviews and benchmarks plus, I'll wait until the end of June/July to buy to make sure any bios, drivers and bug issues are dealt with before I buy - special thanks to advice from very helpful and knowledgeable peeps here at Tom's. I'm just an old guy trying to make sure I get the right system for us this time and the work that we do in our small business. We work around 12 hours a day on average, our computers are on from the time we wake up until we go to bed pretty much every day. So, any helpful advice I get is always greatly appreciated.


Take your time. You will get to read more about the IB during the next few months.

BTW, it is your system, your money and your choice. Please keep the negatives at bay and don't let that bother you. Folks on the Tom's are fantastic and we are here to help you. Good luck with your system build.
April 26, 2012 2:04:52 PM

josejones said:
Thanks for the support. I've never been called a "poser" before just for wanting a killer system. I've always gone sort of cheaper in the past and paid dearly for it in the long run by it taking so long to get things done. I don't want to do that this time. That's why I'm switching from AMD over to Intel in order to get my projects or work done much faster, which will enable me to get more things done in a day and make myself more $$$.

I am very seriously leaning towards the i7 3770 but, just wondered if the difference between the i7 and the i5 was noticeable or not and if it was worth the extra $100. That's all I needed out of this thread. I'm keeping an eye on reviews and benchmarks plus, I'll wait until the end of June/July to buy to make sure any bios, drivers and bug issues are dealt with before I buy - special thanks to advice from very helpful and knowledgeable peeps here at Tom's. I'm just an old guy trying to make sure I get the right system for us this time and the work that we do in our small business. We work around 12 hours a day on average, our computers are on from the time we wake up until we go to bed pretty much every day. So, any helpful advice I get is always greatly appreciated.


For what you're doing, with the video editing, it's definitely worth it. The i7 will lap it up, can never have too much power!

If you were a gamer, I'd recommend the Core i5 as the i7 is more of a novelty than anything else.

Glad the troll didn't scare you off. All the best with your new system.
April 27, 2012 6:07:29 PM

Wow, the Ivy Bridge i7 3770k ranks #7 while the 3770 still ranks #9 with 10452 in the PassMark Performance Test chart:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

For a comparison, our original CPU - AMD Sempron 2600+ 1.6 socket 754 comes in at 401 with a rank of #1078:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Sempron+260...

We upgraded to the AMD Athlon 3200 2.0, 2 years ago, which comes in at 524 with a rank of #960:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Athlon+64+3...

I'm curious of what the % of performance increase is from these compared to the new 3770?
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April 28, 2012 10:24:23 AM

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