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Fuji Frontier and TIFF Problem

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Anonymous
May 12, 2005 8:21:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I recently tried having some images printed at my local Costco store where
they use a Fuji Frontier system. I gave them my images as 300dpi 8x10 TIFFs.
When I got the prints each image was darkened across the top half, with a
band of overexposed image across the bottom. When I asked the tech about the
images he said "Oh, those were TIFFs. You need to give us the images as
JPEGS".

Everything I have managed to find online indicates that the Fuji Frontier
system can handle TIFFs fine. I don't want to use JPEGS because of a
possible loss in image quality.

Any suggestions on what I can do? Thanks.

Andy
andy at britishideas dot com
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 8:21:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

>I recently tried having some images printed at my local Costco store where
> they use a Fuji Frontier system. I gave them my images as 300dpi 8x10
> TIFFs.
> When I got the prints each image was darkened across the top half, with a
> band of overexposed image across the bottom. When I asked the tech about
> the
> images he said "Oh, those were TIFFs. You need to give us the images as
> JPEGS".
>
> Everything I have managed to find online indicates that the Fuji Frontier
> system can handle TIFFs fine. I don't want to use JPEGS because of a
> possible loss in image quality.
>
> Any suggestions on what I can do? Thanks.
>
> Andy


You only get loss of image quality in JPEG if you do to high of a
compression or you open them mess with the image and resave them numerous
times. What you might have read about the frontier being able to handle TIFF
is correct but only if it is set up for it. I get lots of prints from Costco
but one I go to uses the Noritsu. I always do all of my editing and saving
using PSD files until I am ready to print then I save as JPEG put on CF
cards and take them to store for printing.
May 12, 2005 8:21:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Andrew Ayre wrote:

> I don't want to use JPEGS because of a
> possible loss in image quality.
>

That isn't a concern. Save as high quality jpegs and you'll never see the
difference in print from tiffs.
--

Stacey
Related resources
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 7:32:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Andrew Ayre <andy@nospam.com> wrote:
> I recently tried having some images printed at my local Costco store where
> they use a Fuji Frontier system. I gave them my images as 300dpi 8x10 TIFFs.
> When I got the prints each image was darkened across the top half, with a
> band of overexposed image across the bottom. When I asked the tech about the
> images he said "Oh, those were TIFFs. You need to give us the images as
> JPEGS".
>
> Everything I have managed to find online indicates that the Fuji Frontier
> system can handle TIFFs fine. I don't want to use JPEGS because of a
> possible loss in image quality.
>
> Any suggestions on what I can do? Thanks.
>

Do all of your editing in one of the lossless formats (RAW or TIFF or
PSD). When you are ready, crop to your print size @ 300 dpi and save it
as JPEG level 10 with the sRGB colorspace. This will not show any
degradation in quality for the final print image.

Keep in mind that Costco needs JPG files in sRGB, so be sure to use this
colorspace ... most retail printers have this requirement. Also,
remember that most retail printers will automatically adjust the
photograph for color and contrast according to programmed settings.
There is very little you can do about this unless you go do some of the
better online sites. MPIX.com comes to mind, but I am not entirely sure
that even they don't do color adjustment.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 7:39:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:428376f4$0$40889$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net...
> Andrew Ayre <andy@nospam.com> wrote:
> > I recently tried having some images printed at my local Costco store
where
> > they use a Fuji Frontier system. I gave them my images as 300dpi 8x10
TIFFs.
> > When I got the prints each image was darkened across the top half, with
a
> > band of overexposed image across the bottom. When I asked the tech about
the
> > images he said "Oh, those were TIFFs. You need to give us the images as
> > JPEGS".
> >
> > Everything I have managed to find online indicates that the Fuji
Frontier
> > system can handle TIFFs fine. I don't want to use JPEGS because of a
> > possible loss in image quality.
> >
> > Any suggestions on what I can do? Thanks.
> >
>
> Do all of your editing in one of the lossless formats (RAW or TIFF or
> PSD). When you are ready, crop to your print size @ 300 dpi and save it
> as JPEG level 10 with the sRGB colorspace. This will not show any
> degradation in quality for the final print image.
>
> Keep in mind that Costco needs JPG files in sRGB, so be sure to use this
> colorspace ... most retail printers have this requirement. Also,
> remember that most retail printers will automatically adjust the
> photograph for color and contrast according to programmed settings.
> There is very little you can do about this unless you go do some of the
> better online sites. MPIX.com comes to mind, but I am not entirely sure
> that even they don't do color adjustment.
>
> --
> Thomas T. Veldhouse
> Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
> Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
>

Thanks Thomas! I think that is exactly what I will do.

Andy
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 9:35:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Andrew Ayre wrote:
> I recently tried having some images printed at my local Costco store where
> they use a Fuji Frontier system. I gave them my images as 300dpi 8x10 TIFFs.
> When I got the prints each image was darkened across the top half, with a
> band of overexposed image across the bottom. When I asked the tech about the
> images he said "Oh, those were TIFFs. You need to give us the images as
> JPEGS".
>
> Everything I have managed to find online indicates that the Fuji Frontier
> system can handle TIFFs fine. I don't want to use JPEGS because of a
> possible loss in image quality.
>
> Any suggestions on what I can do? Thanks.
>
> Andy
> andy at britishideas dot com
>
>
------------------------
Let me get this right...
You don't want to use the industry standard image format that nearly
every Photographer in the world sends to their labs for fear of quality
loss and so you got back some lousy prints with your "other" format...
Is that right? Just read it again if you don't understand it.

Douglas
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 9:35:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Andrew Ayre wrote:

> I recently tried having some images printed at my local Costco
> store where they use a Fuji Frontier system. I gave them my images
> as 300dpi 8x10 TIFFs. When I got the prints each image was
> darkened across the top half, with a band of overexposed image
> across the bottom. When I asked the tech about the images he said
> "Oh, those were TIFFs. You need to give us the images as JPEGS".
>
> Everything I have managed to find online indicates that the Fuji
> Frontier system can handle TIFFs fine. I don't want to use JPEGS
> because of a possible loss in image quality. Any suggestions on
> what I can do?

Use a pro lab (or at least a different one).

While I agree with you that there is no technical reason that your
local Costco shouldn't be able to process TIFFs on their Frontier,
it sounds from what you tell us that they are not able or willing to
do it right.

Labs that cater for professionals are used to printing TIFFs, so they
will do a much better job (but they cost at lot more than Costco).
--
- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
May 12, 2005 10:11:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I am a professsional portrait photographer and send my images to the lab,
via ftp, on the net. I always send high res 12 level .jpgs and have great
results. Just save your initial finished image as a .psd or .tif and then
save a .jpg 12 level full res for printing. I just won a blue ribbon and was
in the court of honor at our state photography assn. with a 16"x20" image
sent to the lab as a full res .jpg file. Just don't make changes on a .jpg
.... always make them on the .psd or .tif file. and I have had a few images
printed on that printer at Walmart and had banding problems with .tifs too
so give .jpgs.

Craig Flory
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 2:33:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Andrew Ayre" <andy@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MQAge.6527$Dh.1891@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>I recently tried having some images printed at my local Costco store where
> they use a Fuji Frontier system. I gave them my images as 300dpi 8x10
> TIFFs.
> When I got the prints each image was darkened across the top half, with a
> band of overexposed image across the bottom. When I asked the tech about
> the
> images he said "Oh, those were TIFFs. You need to give us the images as
> JPEGS".
>
> Everything I have managed to find online indicates that the Fuji Frontier
> system can handle TIFFs fine. I don't want to use JPEGS because of a
> possible loss in image quality.
Did you enter the images using one of the DIY terminals or did their staff
member enter them through their main imaging controller computer, because it
makes a difference. I have a fair bit of experience with a Frontier 340 -
different models may be different. The 340 has an imaging controller
computer that links up to the actual frontier unit. This unit can process
Tiff (8 bit only, not 16 bit), JPG, BMP, GIF, and possibly a few other
formats. From what I am led to believe from Fuji, they are always converted
to JPG first if not already in JPG format. From this machine I normally
don't encounter problems, however on the odd occasion if the image is very
large it will have the odd hiccup, having colour/brightness variations over
parts of the image or even the pixels get out of kilter, but these problems
are rare. I suspect these problems are due to errors reading the original
media, because you will often hear CD's groaning etc. If the original is a
JPG I rarely encounter problems unless it is clearly faulty media. Larger
image files tend to increase the likelihood of their being a read error.

There is wide variation in what the DIY customer terminals can do however.
We have terminals with two different software revisions, one can't handle
TIFFs at all, the others can, but frequently produce the types of errors you
describe when processing large TIFFs.

>
> Any suggestions on what I can do? Thanks.
Seriously, I'd suggest just saving them to JPG 300dpi images with low
compression. You will not notice any image quality loss compared to TIFF.
Plus the smaller images will allow you to fit more onto a CD, the process
will run faster, and generally you will win all round. JPG loss only comes
into play if you are frequently editing and re-saving images, or if you use
a very high compression setting. In photoshop, I find that I can see no
visible difference between quality levels of 10 and above and Tiff.

I had a twit come in once with images he had resampled from his D70 to
4800x7200 16bit TIFF images. This resulted in images of 200MB each, which he
had copied about 30 to a DL-DVD. He wanted 6x4 prints from them, so they
were 1200dpi images at his requested print size. The lab machines initially
all refused to read the disc, so I copied a few images to a 1GB CF card
(which took about 20 minutes). The machines then refused to read the image
files - I told him that if he provided them as JPG's the machines would have
no trouble - he got the shits saying he didn't want to lose image quality.
He wouldn't believe me when I told him that the approx 3000x2000 images that
his D70 produced contained more information than the machine could print on
a 6x4, even if they were JPG's, and that by resampling them up to 4800x7200
he had created information that didn't really exist, that the images would
have to be resampled down again to print. He got the shits and decided to
take his photos to a lab who could print them at 1200dpi and 16 bit - after
all according to him 1200dpi 16 bit TIFF is the industry standard. A day or
so later he turned up again, this time with 300dpi JPG's.
>
> Andy
> andy at britishideas dot com
>
>
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 2:33:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Justin Thyme" <pleasedontspamme@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:L2Ige.777$4e6.5498@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
> "Andrew Ayre" <andy@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:MQAge.6527$Dh.1891@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >I recently tried having some images printed at my local Costco store
where
> > they use a Fuji Frontier system. I gave them my images as 300dpi 8x10
> > TIFFs.
> > When I got the prints each image was darkened across the top half, with
a
> > band of overexposed image across the bottom. When I asked the tech about
> > the
> > images he said "Oh, those were TIFFs. You need to give us the images as
> > JPEGS".
> >
> > Everything I have managed to find online indicates that the Fuji
Frontier
> > system can handle TIFFs fine. I don't want to use JPEGS because of a
> > possible loss in image quality.
> Did you enter the images using one of the DIY terminals or did their staff
> member enter them through their main imaging controller computer, because
it
> makes a difference. I have a fair bit of experience with a Frontier 340 -
> different models may be different. The 340 has an imaging controller
> computer that links up to the actual frontier unit. This unit can process
> Tiff (8 bit only, not 16 bit), JPG, BMP, GIF, and possibly a few other
> formats. From what I am led to believe from Fuji, they are always
converted
> to JPG first if not already in JPG format. From this machine I normally
> don't encounter problems, however on the odd occasion if the image is very
> large it will have the odd hiccup, having colour/brightness variations
over
> parts of the image or even the pixels get out of kilter, but these
problems
> are rare. I suspect these problems are due to errors reading the original
> media, because you will often hear CD's groaning etc. If the original is a
> JPG I rarely encounter problems unless it is clearly faulty media. Larger
> image files tend to increase the likelihood of their being a read error.
>
> There is wide variation in what the DIY customer terminals can do however.
> We have terminals with two different software revisions, one can't handle
> TIFFs at all, the others can, but frequently produce the types of errors
you
> describe when processing large TIFFs.
>
> >
> > Any suggestions on what I can do? Thanks.
> Seriously, I'd suggest just saving them to JPG 300dpi images with low
> compression. You will not notice any image quality loss compared to TIFF.
> Plus the smaller images will allow you to fit more onto a CD, the process
> will run faster, and generally you will win all round. JPG loss only comes
> into play if you are frequently editing and re-saving images, or if you
use
> a very high compression setting. In photoshop, I find that I can see no
> visible difference between quality levels of 10 and above and Tiff.
>
> I had a twit come in once with images he had resampled from his D70 to
> 4800x7200 16bit TIFF images. This resulted in images of 200MB each, which
he
> had copied about 30 to a DL-DVD. He wanted 6x4 prints from them, so they
> were 1200dpi images at his requested print size. The lab machines
initially
> all refused to read the disc, so I copied a few images to a 1GB CF card
> (which took about 20 minutes). The machines then refused to read the image
> files - I told him that if he provided them as JPG's the machines would
have
> no trouble - he got the shits saying he didn't want to lose image quality.
> He wouldn't believe me when I told him that the approx 3000x2000 images
that
> his D70 produced contained more information than the machine could print
on
> a 6x4, even if they were JPG's, and that by resampling them up to
4800x7200
> he had created information that didn't really exist, that the images would
> have to be resampled down again to print. He got the shits and decided to
> take his photos to a lab who could print them at 1200dpi and 16 bit -
after
> all according to him 1200dpi 16 bit TIFF is the industry standard. A day
or
> so later he turned up again, this time with 300dpi JPG's.
> >
> > Andy
> > andy at britishideas dot com
> >
> >
>
>

Thanks for all the replies! It seems my fear of loss of quality with JPEGs
is unfounded. I think I will use low compression JPEGs instead of battling
with Costco and TIFFs. Thanks again!

Andy
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 2:47:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 12 May 2005 15:32:04 GMT, "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Andrew Ayre <andy@nospam.com> wrote:
>> I recently tried having some images printed at my local Costco store where
>> they use a Fuji Frontier system. I gave them my images as 300dpi 8x10 TIFFs.
>> When I got the prints each image was darkened across the top half, with a
>> band of overexposed image across the bottom. When I asked the tech about the
>> images he said "Oh, those were TIFFs. You need to give us the images as
>> JPEGS".
>>
>> Everything I have managed to find online indicates that the Fuji Frontier
>> system can handle TIFFs fine. I don't want to use JPEGS because of a
>> possible loss in image quality.
>>
>> Any suggestions on what I can do? Thanks.
>>
>
>Do all of your editing in one of the lossless formats (RAW or TIFF or
>PSD). When you are ready, crop to your print size @ 300 dpi and save it
>as JPEG level 10 with the sRGB colorspace. This will not show any
>degradation in quality for the final print image.
>
>Keep in mind that Costco needs JPG files in sRGB, so be sure to use this
>colorspace ... most retail printers have this requirement. Also,
>remember that most retail printers will automatically adjust the
>photograph for color and contrast according to programmed settings.
>There is very little you can do about this unless you go do some of the
>better online sites. MPIX.com comes to mind, but I am not entirely sure
>that even they don't do color adjustment.


My Costco handles TIF files that have been converted for use with the
printer profile for their specific Noritsu printer and their Fuji
paper. The results are excellent, especially in 11x14 and 12x18.
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 4:06:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Andrew Ayre" <andy@nospam.com> writes:

> I recently tried having some images printed at my local Costco store where
> they use a Fuji Frontier system. I gave them my images as 300dpi 8x10 TIFFs.
> When I got the prints each image was darkened across the top half, with a
> band of overexposed image across the bottom. When I asked the tech about the
> images he said "Oh, those were TIFFs. You need to give us the images as
> JPEGS".
>
> Everything I have managed to find online indicates that the Fuji Frontier
> system can handle TIFFs fine. I don't want to use JPEGS because of a
> possible loss in image quality.
>
> Any suggestions on what I can do? Thanks.

Give up and give them TIFFs. Costco is not a place where you can get
the staff to spend a lot of time and energy to figure out how to do
things your way.

And you won't be able to tell the difference between a TIFF and a
quality-10 (Photoshop) JPEG for your application anyway.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 6:12:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

One more thought ... I pay my pro lab $1.99 for an 8"X10" when I send it in
via ftp over the net ... so that is a good bit less than an 8"x10" at
Walmart. So if you are a professional check out sending your files over the
net for cost savings.

Craig Flory
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 4:09:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote:


>
> Give up and give them TIFFs. Costco is not a place where you
> can get the staff to spend a lot of time and energy to figure
> out how to do things your way.

Not my experience at all. If you use the proper profile all you have
to do is make sure that they turn off the auto color controls.
>
> And you won't be able to tell the difference between a TIFF and
> a quality-10 (Photoshop) JPEG for your application anyway.
True. I use quality 12 anyway.
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 5:59:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Fri, 13 May 2005 12:06:29 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b@dd-b.net>
wrote:

>"Andrew Ayre" <andy@nospam.com> writes:
>
>> I recently tried having some images printed at my local Costco store where
>> they use a Fuji Frontier system. I gave them my images as 300dpi 8x10 TIFFs.
>> When I got the prints each image was darkened across the top half, with a
>> band of overexposed image across the bottom. When I asked the tech about the
>> images he said "Oh, those were TIFFs. You need to give us the images as
>> JPEGS".
>>
>> Everything I have managed to find online indicates that the Fuji Frontier
>> system can handle TIFFs fine. I don't want to use JPEGS because of a
>> possible loss in image quality.
>>
>> Any suggestions on what I can do? Thanks.
>
>Give up and give them TIFFs. Costco is not a place where you can get
>the staff to spend a lot of time and energy to figure out how to do
>things your way.

Not so at my local Costco. They pointed me to the Dry Creek website to
download the custom profiles for theirr printer/paper. They have been
very helpful and knowledgeable in explaining what I and they need to
do to get the results I want from their Noritsu. I have some great
11x14 and 12x16 prints from them.

>
>And you won't be able to tell the difference between a TIFF and a
>quality-10 (Photoshop) JPEG for your application anyway.
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 7:00:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Craig Flory <floryphotog@mindspring.com> wrote:
> One more thought ... I pay my pro lab $1.99 for an 8"X10" when I send it in
> via ftp over the net ... so that is a good bit less than an 8"x10" at
> Walmart. So if you are a professional check out sending your files over the
> net for cost savings.
>
> Craig Flory
>

Who is your pro lab? MPIX.com?

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 9:33:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sat, 14 May 2005 00:09:30 -0600, BubbaBob
<rnorton@_remove_this_medlab5.unm.edu> wrote:

>David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Give up and give them TIFFs. Costco is not a place where you
>> can get the staff to spend a lot of time and energy to figure
>> out how to do things your way.
>
>Not my experience at all. If you use the proper profile all you have
>to do is make sure that they turn off the auto color controls.
>>
>> And you won't be able to tell the difference between a TIFF and
>> a quality-10 (Photoshop) JPEG for your application anyway.
>True. I use quality 12 anyway.


The difference to me is that I can use the correct printer/paper
profile more easily with TIFF
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 9:45:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Oliver Costich wrote:
>
> On Sat, 14 May 2005 00:09:30 -0600, BubbaBob
> <rnorton@_remove_this_medlab5.unm.edu> wrote:
>
> >David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Give up and give them TIFFs. Costco is not a place where you
> >> can get the staff to spend a lot of time and energy to figure
> >> out how to do things your way.
> >
> >Not my experience at all. If you use the proper profile all you have
> >to do is make sure that they turn off the auto color controls.
> >>
> >> And you won't be able to tell the difference between a TIFF and
> >> a quality-10 (Photoshop) JPEG for your application anyway.
> >True. I use quality 12 anyway.
>
> The difference to me is that I can use the correct printer/paper
> profile more easily with TIFF

why?

the profile has not a clue what the file format is.
it depends on the printer, the ink, and the paper,
but not the file type.
!