The Urbanization of Videogames

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This isn't a direct follow-up to the recent thread concerning racist
language in online games, but that thread had me thinking about another
topic which I think is worthy of discussion. Namely, is the
"urbanization" of videogames a good thing, a bad thing, or neither?

By urbanization, I mean games which feature inner-city environments
(usually crime-ridden), hip hop and rap music, slang and "ebonics"
dialogue, and minority (usually African or Latino) characters.

Considering that the game company CEO's, the programmers, the PR
contacts, and even the game journalists are primarily white, what does
this mean? Is it an honest attempt to create "inclusive,
multicultural" games instead of games with white characters? Or is it
simply an attempt to "cash in" on the latest fad--trying to be "hip" by
using new music and current clothing styles?

If you are not a minority, do you really care if the main character is
black or white? Are you really interested in gangsta rap, or could you
not care less? Can you really relate to life on the "street" while
living in the country or the suburbs? Do you feel as if the publishers
are trying to convey a social or political statement?

If you are a minority, do you really care if the main character is
black or white? Are you more offended by the use of harmful
stereotypes than you are by the lack of main characters who are
minorities? Do you think hiring minority programmers, journalists, and
game company CEO's is a better goal than creating violent urban games
that might perpetuate stereotypes?

On the one hand, even though videogames are entertainment and fantasy,
people probably want a main character that they can relate to. On the
other hand, wouldn't it be better if you could simply change the color
of Max Payne or Lara Croft's skin...rather than being forced to play a
gangbanger or an NFL/NBA star if you want a minority character? Aren't
there some stories and values that transcend race? (Consider Ubisoft's
"Beyond Good and Evil" starring an Asian female--would the game have
been any less brilliant with a black male?)

If game publishers suddenly "feminized" games--making more female lead
characters, but keeping them in stereotypical female roles (shopping,
cooking, etc.)--I'm sure we would hear a lot of criticism from both
males (who don't want to play those roles) and females (who are
offended by those roles). Why, then, has no one commented on the fact
that a lot of games have taken on an "urban" style in the past few
years?
 

Poldy

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No just taking advantage of the popularity of hip hop.

Plus I guess in the hood, you could see more action or violence, which
plays into the fantasy aspect of gaming.

You can't have a GTA game in Beverly Hills. Then again, some people
might get off on bringing destruction to rich people.
 

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I think it's just a fad. One urban game becomes a hit and everyone
tries to capitalize on its success. Most likely, they'll learn that the
first game was popular because it was unique and the next few were
disappointing copycats , and after that, sales will drastically decline
because people are tired of the whole genre.

I believe Shadowman was the first major game to have a black hero. It
didn't bother me a bit. On the other hand, I never really got into
playing a female character that much. When I play James Bond, I feel
like I could be him going through the game, but when I play a Tomb
Raider game, I always feel like I'm just watching Lara from a distance.
I wonder how women feel when playing male characters?
 
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"don" <don@no.spam> wrote in message news:42DBDB0D.FD79D31D@no.spam...

>I think it's just a fad. One urban game becomes a hit and everyone
> tries to capitalize on its success. Most likely, they'll learn that the
> first game was popular because it was unique and the next few were
> disappointing copycats , and after that, sales will drastically decline
> because people are tired of the whole genre.

I seriously doubt it. Look at gangster rap. As long as it can be exploited
with an air of misplaced tolerance, it will be around making countless stock
holders rich.
 

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Fred Liken wrote:
>
> "don" <don@no.spam> wrote in message news:42DBDB0D.FD79D31D@no.spam...

> I seriously doubt it. Look at gangster rap. As long as it can be exploited
> with an air of misplaced tolerance, it will be around making countless stock
> holders rich.

But...the whole urban ghetto thing hasn't been all that successful
outside of music. How many "in the hood" movies or TV shows have been
hits?
 
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"don" <don@no.spam> wrote

>> I seriously doubt it. Look at gangster rap. As long as it can be
>> exploited
>> with an air of misplaced tolerance, it will be around making countless
>> stock
>> holders rich.
>
> But...the whole urban ghetto thing hasn't been all that successful
> outside of music.

Clothing and games, so far pop to mind.

> How many "in the hood" movies or TV shows have been
> hits?

Movies? Are you serious? Tons.

For TV, Cops, Jerry Springer, MTV, hmmm...
But that's not such a great measuring stick. TV has quite a bit of
oversight. They also have totally different goals.
 
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"Fred Liken" <nothanks@toocoolforschool.com> wrote in message
news:42dc0660$0$2490$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> "don" <don@no.spam> wrote
>
>>> I seriously doubt it. Look at gangster rap. As long as it can be
>>> exploited
>>> with an air of misplaced tolerance, it will be around making countless
>>> stock
>>> holders rich.
>>
>> But...the whole urban ghetto thing hasn't been all that successful
>> outside of music.
>
> Clothing and games, so far pop to mind.
>
>> How many "in the hood" movies or TV shows have been
>> hits?
>
> Movies? Are you serious? Tons.

I believe hits as in not out of the theater in 2 weeks and then on to video.
That genre of films has not had BIG sucesses really...couple maybe. Overall
those don't do major numbers at the box office and don't end up having
staying power and are out of the theaters and on the way to DVD pretty
quickly. TV wise it is even less...

> For TV, Cops, Jerry Springer, MTV, hmmm...
> But that's not such a great measuring stick. TV has quite a bit of
> oversight. They also have totally different goals.
>
 
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don <don@no.spam> wrote:

> But...the whole urban ghetto thing hasn't been all that successful
> outside of music. How many "in the hood" movies or TV shows have been
> hits?

I seem to recall maybe a dozen movies over the past 20 years or so that
were about minorities in the ghetto - some positive (Stand & Deliver)
others not so (Boyz In The Hood) and others were just bent on glorifying
the whole "gangsta" lifestyle - if not just poking fun of it.
 
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"don" <don@no.spam> wrote in message news:42DBE4C5.612100C1@no.spam...
>
>
> Fred Liken wrote:
>>
>> "don" <don@no.spam> wrote in message news:42DBDB0D.FD79D31D@no.spam...
>
>> I seriously doubt it. Look at gangster rap. As long as it can be
>> exploited
>> with an air of misplaced tolerance, it will be around making countless
>> stock
>> holders rich.
>
> But...the whole urban ghetto thing hasn't been all that successful
> outside of music. How many "in the hood" movies or TV shows have been
> hits?

Boys in the Hood received many film awards and was critically acclaimed.
Menace II Society and Juice each topped 75 Million and launched careers of
quite a few actors. Then you can go down the line with Barbershop and
movies as such which were also quite successful. I'm not seeing your point.

TV Shows: Good Times, What's Happening and Sanford and Son are the only 3
shows I can think of that ever took place "in the hood" and those are all
classics. Come to think of it, New York Undercover was top 10 during its
initial run. There was also Chico and the Man and Welcome Back Kotter.

All this actually proves is that "in the hood" movies and TV shows are rare
and do make money.
 
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"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:11do8r87op8d012@corp.supernews.com...
> don <don@no.spam> wrote:
>
>> But...the whole urban ghetto thing hasn't been all that successful
>> outside of music. How many "in the hood" movies or TV shows have been
>> hits?
>
> I seem to recall maybe a dozen movies over the past 20 years or so that
> were about minorities in the ghetto - some positive (Stand & Deliver)
> others not so (Boyz In The Hood) and others were just bent on glorifying
> the whole "gangsta" lifestyle - if not just poking fun of it.

Boyz In The Hood was indeed a positive movie. It focused on the central
character whose father did not let him succumb to the life in the hood that
so many of his peers had succumbed to. The tragic hero was a guy who played
football and received a scholarship to USC so that he could escape and
unfortunately didn't make it. Just because there wasn't any cheering at the
end like Stand and Deliver or Lean on Me doesn't mean it didn't try and show
a positive message.
 
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"Mattinglyfan" <nyyankees@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:pbydnWhM0pUqOUHfRVn-1A@comcast.com...

>> But...the whole urban ghetto thing hasn't been all that successful
>> outside of music. How many "in the hood" movies or TV shows have been
>> hits?
>
> Boys in the Hood received many film awards and was critically acclaimed.
> Menace II Society and Juice each topped 75 Million and launched careers
> of quite a few actors. Then you can go down the line with Barbershop and
> movies as such which were also quite successful. I'm not seeing your
> point.

Spike Lee's made a career out of them.
 
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"Fred Liken" <nothanks@toocoolforschool.com> wrote in message
news:42dd1307$0$2509$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> "Mattinglyfan" <nyyankees@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:pbydnWhM0pUqOUHfRVn-1A@comcast.com...
>
>>> But...the whole urban ghetto thing hasn't been all that successful
>>> outside of music. How many "in the hood" movies or TV shows have been
>>> hits?
>>
>> Boys in the Hood received many film awards and was critically acclaimed.
>> Menace II Society and Juice each topped 75 Million and launched careers
>> of quite a few actors. Then you can go down the line with Barbershop and
>> movies as such which were also quite successful. I'm not seeing your
>> point.
>
> Spike Lee's made a career out of them.
>

That is what I was thinking but I wasn't sure if movies like Do the Right
Thing, Jungle Fever or He Got Game were the types of movies he was talking
about when he said "in the hood".
 

Don

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Fred Liken wrote:

> > How many "in the hood" movies or TV shows have been
> > hits?
>
> Movies? Are you serious? Tons.

Out of the hundreds of movies released each year, no one has been able
to name more than a few in the past 20 years that have been bona fide
hits.

> For TV, Cops, Jerry Springer, MTV, hmmm...
> But that's not such a great measuring stick. TV has quite a bit of
> oversight. They also have totally different goals.

I think you're really grasping at straws to call Cops and Springer "in
the hood" shows. Sure, some Cops (and shows like it) episodes take
place in the inner city, but just as many show them chasing white
hillbillies in rural locations. Springer just has trashy people whether
they're from the ghetto or the trailer park, and most of MTV's ghetto
type programming centers around the music.

What I'm talking about is dramas (or even comedies) that are primarily
about what the original poster was referring to: crime-ridden inner
city environments, rap music, ghetto slang, etc. The only TV show I can
think of is The Wire, and I don't think that's a huge hit.
 
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"don" <don@no.spam> wrote in message news:42DD1E9B.11CEDE75@no.spam...

> What I'm talking about is dramas (or even comedies) that are primarily
> about what the original poster was referring to: crime-ridden inner
> city environments, rap music, ghetto slang, etc. The only TV show I can
> think of is The Wire, and I don't think that's a huge hit.

If you're going to move the goal posts, then why ask?
 
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"don" <don@no.spam> wrote in message news:42DD1E9B.11CEDE75@no.spam...
>
>
> Fred Liken wrote:
>
>> > How many "in the hood" movies or TV shows have been
>> > hits?
>>
>> Movies? Are you serious? Tons.
>
> Out of the hundreds of movies released each year, no one has been able
> to name more than a few in the past 20 years that have been bona fide
> hits.
>
>> For TV, Cops, Jerry Springer, MTV, hmmm...
>> But that's not such a great measuring stick. TV has quite a bit of
>> oversight. They also have totally different goals.
>
> I think you're really grasping at straws to call Cops and Springer "in
> the hood" shows. Sure, some Cops (and shows like it) episodes take
> place in the inner city, but just as many show them chasing white
> hillbillies in rural locations. Springer just has trashy people whether
> they're from the ghetto or the trailer park, and most of MTV's ghetto
> type programming centers around the music.
>
> What I'm talking about is dramas (or even comedies) that are primarily
> about what the original poster was referring to: crime-ridden inner
> city environments, rap music, ghetto slang, etc. The only TV show I can
> think of is The Wire, and I don't think that's a huge hit.

The Wire is a critically acclaimed hit. I named quite a few. HBO also had
one called The Corner which was the basis for the Wire which won awards for
Charles S. Dutton.

Good Times - One of the all-time greatest comedies
What's Happening - Set in Watts in South Central LA (also a classic)
Sanford and Son - One of the funniest shows ever
New York Undercover - Was at least in the top 10 or 15 during its first two
seasons
The Wire - You already mentioned
OZ - Was set in jail but it was crime-ridden, rap music, ghetto slang. It
was quite possibly one of the best dramas ever.
Hill Street Blues - Old School "in the Hood Drama"
Fresh Prince of Bellaire - Featured everything except for the crime-ridden
hood

The fact of the matter is, I just named 8 highly successful TV shows of that
genre. Even if you could name me 8 more that were failures (which you
can't) that would still be a 50% success rating for that genre which is
higher than any other show environment type a la hospital, police drama,
yuppie NY ..... That would indicate a very successful genre by industry
standards so the proper question would be, why aren't there more?
 

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Mattinglyfan wrote:

> Boys in the Hood received many film awards and was critically acclaimed.
> Menace II Society and Juice each topped 75 Million and launched careers of
> quite a few actors. Then you can go down the line with Barbershop and
> movies as such which were also quite successful. I'm not seeing your point.

My point is simply that some movies were made to monopolize on the
popularity of the gangsta rap scene, but after a couple of critically
acclaimed, original films, they were mostly just poorly made clones
which people stayed away from in droves.

I'm just hypothesizing that the same thing will happen to the urban,
gangsta, hip-hop based games. I think that after a few really bad ones
the fad will pass.

> TV Shows: Good Times, What's Happening and Sanford and Son are the only 3
> shows I can think of that ever took place "in the hood" and those are all
> classics. Come to think of it, New York Undercover was top 10 during its
> initial run. There was also Chico and the Man and Welcome Back Kotter.

I'm not familiar with NY Undercover, but the rest of the shows were
sitcoms that had nothing to do with gangsta rap or urban crime. Did
Kotter even have any blacks in it?

> All this actually proves is that "in the hood" movies and TV shows are rare
> and do make money.

And the fact that they are rare only goes to prove that it's not a
popular genre in spite of the popularity of the music. Until there are
10 or 20 urban based games that are bona fide hits, it's not going to be
a major force in video gaming like futuristic sci-fi or medieval fantasy
is.
 
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<bootl3g@gmail.com> wrote in message
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> I'm 35 years old, black and I grew up in a real 'urban' environment.
> Growing up in 'the hood' wasnt really a great, romantic experience
> from my perspective, like all these fake bling/cristal popping/spinning
> rim driving minstrels you see on MTv & BET. I was a teenager in the 80s
> when crack destroyed whole communities. I knew a bunch of kids from my
> neighborhood who never made it past 16.

Very true.

> I grew up listening to rap at the height of the hip-hop era (mid 80s)
> and I loved rap music, but I dont even bother listening to it anymore
> because its stuck on stupid. Its like a broken record. Watch MTV or
> BET all the 'urban' videos are exactly the same with the exact same
> romanticized images- big cars, spinning rims, scantily clad women,
> cristal and bling jewelry wearing thugs glamorizing a drug culture
> running from cops half the time.

Ditto.

> I always ask them, "Why are they talking like that?" They come with
> some lame ass, 'i'm cool/down' type response usually.

Sad.

> If you are inundated with negative stereotypes and images of a cultural
> group, people actually start to believe them and its does have an
> affect on society. What gets me is lots of blacks wonder why stuff like
> racial profiling exists when they've bought into this imagery hook,
> line and sinker.

I agree.
 
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BTW, I'm thinking of developing this topic for a feature article in an
upcoming issue of PSE magazine. If anyone wants to weigh in, please
email me your responses. I know it sounds stupid, but if the article
ever does get published, I'd have to confirm the racial backgrounds of
some of the contributors--just to make sure that I'm not using the
opinions of a 40 year-old white guy who claims to be a black male.
 
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Mattinglyfan wrote:
> <bootl3g@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1121793391.742387.252000@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >I personally hate the entire trend of 'urbanization' and the
> > popularization of hip-hop/gangsta culture. Its a bogus, modern day
> > stereotype that does minorities a disservice.
>
> But the fact of the matter is no one pays attention to anything other than
> the urbanization. I remember how funny people thought it was in the 80's
> when the Cosby Show was on because they were affluent and articulate. They
> even fired the initial producer of A Different World because she wasn't
> dealing with true black issues (I am pretty sure she had previously produced
> Square Pegs). I love to watch shows that follow in that mold or at least do
> as much as possible to go against the "gangsta rap" stereotype.


Whats worse is that a lot of blacks complained that the Cosby Show
wasnt real, that it was fantasy because they dont know anyone that
lives like that. =/
But the 'urbanized ghetto superthug' is cool. I feel like Chris Rock,
"low expectation having MFs!" I can understand Bill Cosby's recent
frustrations.

> I still go back and see a lot of my peers hanging out on park benches in the
> same projects in Astoria, Queens or the same Liquor Stores in LA. While I
> acknowledge that I made it out of those environments, I also realize that I
> was not alone. There are quite a few of us who "did the damn thing" and
> escaped that lifestyle and it doesn't make sense to focus on those who
> didn't. They represent that environment because they are still there but
> they are not the only PRODUCTS of that environment. The fact that movies
> focus on how "difficult" it is to "escape" is the problem. It is not
> difficult if you grow up knowing that is what you want to do.


Exactly. This is part of the negative romanticization of the urban
enivronment. Yeah there are some bad areas, but its all about your
upbringing. People shouldnt have to 'escape the hood' they should make
themselves better and make their communities better in turn.


> While I agree to a certain extent I disagree with your characterization that
> it has ALL become the same. While I am only 32, I remember going to the
> early block parties in 1980 and 81 and I even spent a year and a half in a
> break dancing crew. There are rappers who grew up in that same era who have
> not lost touch with that aspect of the music. While the overwhelming
> majority of them have not been commercial smashes (not including Common, Mos
> Def, Talib Kweli..) , their music perserveres still the same.


Yeah, well I was generalizing to stay on the topic of 'urbanization' in
video games. Yeah there are other types of hip-hop (off-topic) but I
was mainly talking about the commercial/MTV/BET brand thats pushed in
most of these 'urbanized video games. (True Crime, GTA:SA, NBA Street,
DJ Vendetta, 25 to life, Fight Night w/Big Tigga, etc.)



> > They've created a fantasized culture around this negativity, and what
> > most people dont understand is belief follows perception.
> >
>
> That is because it is something for all racial groups in the suburbs to
> embrace as a change from what they are used to. The overwhelming majority
> of rap albums are not purchased by "inner-city" inhabitants anyway. Not
> just because of bootlegging ;) but because it is a much hotter comodity when
> you don't live that lifestyle and long for something different.
>
> > For example, I have an MBA and I work for a pretty large fortune 100
> > company. There isnt a day at my job where some white guy (that i dont
> > even know I might add) comes up to me talking in slang or rapping and
> > acting jive thinking that its cool or funny. Never mind that I dont
> > talk like that at work and they've never seen me talk like that. They
> > think its cool to do this because of the 'urbanization' of pop culture.
> > I always ask them, "Why are they talking like that?" They come with
> > some lame ass, 'i'm cool/down' type response usually. I always tell
> > them if you are really down let me take you over to the east side on
> > our lunch break. I'll drop you off and you say that to some of the
> > people over there. Let me know what happens. If you're really 'down'.
>
> I hate when people try and give you an "extra special" handshake with a
> little something extra at the end. Or asking you a question as to why
> "black people" do certain things like "Why did you guys cheer when OJ was
> acquitted?" I just tell them, "I didn't cheer for a damned thing, OJ never
> ate dinner at my house."

This is an issue since stereotypes and arrogance make lots of whites
few minorities groups as one lump group of people with a collective
conscience like the Borg from Star Trek. 'We' all dont think alike. I
had to explain to some people at my job when they asked me the same
type of question about Africa.

"why do Africans always kill each other? They are all the same"

No they arent. Africa is a continent. There are 50 different countries
in Africa and there are hundreds of cultures in each country. They
arent all the same. Just like Europe has English, French, Germans,
Italians, etc africa has Liberians, Nigerians, Ethiopians etc. and each
of these countries has different tribes and cultures.


> Three, there are no black families bringing
> their kids over to stay at Michael's house and we grew up on the guy. And
> finally, Michael Jackson is not black."

This made me laugh. MJ hasnt been black since 'Off the Wall'.
yeah Mike, we know you have the skin condition, but explain the nose,
the chin, and the perm please!

:D
 
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<quote>BTW, I'm thinking of developing this topic for a feature article
in an
upcoming issue of PSE magazine. If anyone wants to weigh in, please
email me your responses. I know it sounds stupid, but if the article
ever does get published, I'd have to confirm the racial backgrounds of
some of the contributors--just to make sure that I'm not using the
opinions of a 40 year-old white guy who claims to be a black
male.</quote>

Sounds interesting. While you are on the topic add this to my list of
gripes. I have a major peeve with this one:

The 'Sideshow Bob' hairstyle

Why does EVERY black person (men AND women) in tv commercials and
magazine ads all wear an uncombed, 'Sideshow Bob' style afro?!

Its something thats botherd me for a few years now. Sure there are a
few people here and there that wear their hair like this (slackers,
bohemes, college kids) but in general, I dont know that many people
that wear their hair like this. Especially the sistas. Unless she's an
Afrocentric chick, most sistas *always* have their hair done.
;)

A good example is the guy in that Office Depot commercial (Big fro with
the part), or the guy in the Bud commercials, or the guy in the
Tanqueray ads, the list could go on forever.
 
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"Mattinglyfan" <nyyankees@comcast.net> wrote in message
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> And finally, Michael Jackson is not black.

What?
 
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"Android66" <mandrovich@wifibullseye.com> wrote in message
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> BTW, I'm thinking of developing this topic for a feature article in an
> upcoming issue of PSE magazine. If anyone wants to weigh in, please
> email me your responses. I know it sounds stupid, but if the article
> ever does get published, I'd have to confirm the racial backgrounds of
> some of the contributors--just to make sure that I'm not using the
> opinions of a 40 year-old white guy who claims to be a black male.

Racist.
 
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<bootl3g@gmail.com> wrote in message
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> This made me laugh. MJ hasnt been black since 'Off the Wall'.
> yeah Mike, we know you have the skin condition, but explain the nose,
> the chin, and the perm please!

So, Latoya Jackson was born white?
 
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"Mattinglyfan" <nyyankees@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:pfydnc5LJ4NZtEDfRVn-3g@comcast.com...
>
> "don" <don@no.spam> wrote in message news:42DD1E9B.11CEDE75@no.spam...
>>
>>
>> Fred Liken wrote:
>>
>>> > How many "in the hood" movies or TV shows have been
>>> > hits?
>>>
>>> Movies? Are you serious? Tons.
>>
>> Out of the hundreds of movies released each year, no one has been able
>> to name more than a few in the past 20 years that have been bona fide
>> hits.
>>
>>> For TV, Cops, Jerry Springer, MTV, hmmm...
>>> But that's not such a great measuring stick. TV has quite a bit of
>>> oversight. They also have totally different goals.
>>
>> I think you're really grasping at straws to call Cops and Springer "in
>> the hood" shows. Sure, some Cops (and shows like it) episodes take
>> place in the inner city, but just as many show them chasing white
>> hillbillies in rural locations. Springer just has trashy people whether
>> they're from the ghetto or the trailer park, and most of MTV's ghetto
>> type programming centers around the music.
>>
>> What I'm talking about is dramas (or even comedies) that are primarily
>> about what the original poster was referring to: crime-ridden inner
>> city environments, rap music, ghetto slang, etc. The only TV show I can
>> think of is The Wire, and I don't think that's a huge hit.
>
> The Wire is a critically acclaimed hit. I named quite a few. HBO also
> had one called The Corner which was the basis for the Wire which won
> awards for Charles S. Dutton.
>
> Good Times - One of the all-time greatest comedies
> What's Happening - Set in Watts in South Central LA (also a classic)
> Sanford and Son - One of the funniest shows ever
> New York Undercover - Was at least in the top 10 or 15 during its first
> two seasons
> The Wire - You already mentioned
> OZ - Was set in jail but it was crime-ridden, rap music, ghetto slang. It
> was quite possibly one of the best dramas ever.
> Hill Street Blues - Old School "in the Hood Drama"
> Fresh Prince of Bellaire - Featured everything except for the crime-ridden
> hood
>
> The fact of the matter is, I just named 8 highly successful TV shows of
> that genre. Even if you could name me 8 more that were failures (which
> you can't) that would still be a 50% success rating for that genre

It is MUCH easier to name some successes or popular ones then it is ones
that failed. The failures are EASILY forgotten...

>which is higher than any other show environment type a la hospital, police
>drama, yuppie NY ..... That would indicate a very successful genre by
>industry standards so the proper question would be, why aren't there more?
>