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Random restarts, bsod, laggy, updates failing

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January 18, 2012 5:01:01 AM

Hey everyone,

Apologies for the lacking post but I'm laying here in bed (2am :pt1cable:  ) and just can't get this off my mind. I built my pc system almost a year ago and started having these problems recently. I'll be sure to post system specs and a better description of the problem tomorrow... Until then, I have some written down bsod info I thought I would post then maybe I can get some sleep. Maybe someone can pull some info from this:

*edit: Windows 7*
*2nd edit: I tested psu yesterday and voltages were all spot on at every device, sleeeepy time now!*

Kernel_Data_Inpage_Error

Stop: 0X0000007A (0XFFFFF6FC40008C00, 0XFFFFFFFFC000000E, 0X000000009F55B860, 0XFFFFF880011809A0)

Ntfs.sys Address FFFFF880011809A0 base at FFFFF88001037000, datestamp 4D79997B

That's all I wrote down... can't remember if there was anything else that could be useful. Any info would be greatly appreciated, I'll post full system specs tomorrow. Thanks!

:sleep:  :sleep:  :sleep: 
a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2012 2:05:16 PM

7a often has to do with the page file running out of space.

Try the following
Right click computer
properties
advanced system settings
performance
settings
advanced
virtual memory
change

In this menu, see if the top box is checked. If it is, usually Windows can increase the space as necessary. However, it may help to uncheck it and set a custom size to about 1024 x number of GB RAM you have, x 3 to ensure it has plenty of space.

Some other things you should check

1) Space free on C drive. Double click my computer, right click on C, and hit properties. It should say % free on the pie chart.

2) Defrag the PC. This won't help your problem most likely, but it will help the next step which may help the problem. Either way it needs to be done first.

3) Download a program called PageDefrag and set it to run the next time you start the computer. Then restart the computer.
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January 18, 2012 3:09:53 PM

Raiddinn said:
7a often has to do with the page file running out of space.

Try the following
Right click computer
properties
advanced system settings
performance
settings
advanced
virtual memory
change

In this menu, see if the top box is checked. If it is, usually Windows can increase the space as necessary. However, it may help to uncheck it and set a custom size to about 1024 x number of GB RAM you have, x 3 to ensure it has plenty of space.

Some other things you should check

1) Space free on C drive. Double click my computer, right click on C, and hit properties. It should say % free on the pie chart.

2) Defrag the PC. This won't help your problem most likely, but it will help the next step which may help the problem. Either way it needs to be done first.

3) Download a program called PageDefrag and set it to run the next time you start the computer. Then restart the computer.



Thanks for the reply raiddinn, I'll be sure to try that next. Earlier I did a full format of my hdd with an xp disc then did a fresh install of Win7. But here's my system specs:

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 Blk Ed. (had it oc'd until the problems started then downlocked to stock)

CPU COOLER: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus

MOBO: MSI 870A-G54

HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500gb 16mb SATA

PSU: OCZ 700w ModXstream

GPU: Galaxy Nvidia GeForce GTX460 gt 768mb DDR5 (stock)

RAM: PNY xlr8 4gb (2x2gb) 1600mhz cas 8, 1.65v

DVD/CD: Samsung SH-S223

MONITOR: Dell ST2010
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a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2012 3:54:45 PM

A format of the hard drive, assuming you didn't fill it right back to capacity, should render most of those tests useless.

Since you formatted, did you have the same problems again?

If you do still have the same problems, you might try finding the hard drive scanning program made by Seagate and running that. Every major maker has one tailored to their own hard drives. If there is something wrong with the hard drive itself then that may find the problem.
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January 18, 2012 4:12:52 PM

Yea I'm keeping it completely clean and minimal for now until I figure this out... I just got another bsod while trying a windows assessment, then trying to update my video drivers my computer froze. I restarted and was able to install the video drivers successfully. I've actually ran the seatools hdd program and it didn't see any problems. Although I ran through all the tests I chose the shorter tests if there was an option for a long version. Would that make a big difference?

I'm currently running the windows memory diagnostics tool, at 70% with no problems. Once this is done I have a bunch of screen caps of cpu-z and gpu-z I will post. I'll also grab the most recent memory.dmp and post that.

Another fyi... I tore the computer down yesterday and rebuilt it to address any loose connections or anything, did not help. I'll also post a picture of the inside of the case, temps look pretty good and I can't see airflow being a problem.

I'll post pics w/ more info asap.

Raiddinn said:
A format of the hard drive, assuming you didn't fill it right back to capacity, should render most of those tests useless.

Since you formatted, did you have the same problems again?

If you do still have the same problems, you might try finding the hard drive scanning program made by Seagate and running that. Every major maker has one tailored to their own hard drives. If there is something wrong with the hard drive itself then that may find the problem.

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a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2012 4:28:26 PM

Generally speaking, BSODs are caused most often by a couple things

1) Bad RAM
2) Bad Hard Drive
3) Bad Drivers, especially graphics ones
4) Heat

If it indeed has nothing to do with the page file corruption or fragmentation or anything like that, which it shouldn't if you just formatted C and the problem remains, then the next troubleshooting step that makes sense is to boot into Safe Mode and try as hard as possible to crash it.

If you can successfully do so somehow, that would help to rule out bad drivers.

Also, I think you may be proceeding in a non-optimal way with your system installation that may make the problem harder to diagnose and fix.

It would be a good idea to start over from scratch and format the drive again (you can use a Windows 7 CD to do this just fine) and install Windows again.

Then do all the windows updates that are critical and recommended. It may take 7 or 8 iterations of downloading and installing updates to get through all of them. Many updates are in long chains where certain combinations have to be already in place to unlock a new one. You want to update over and over again until there are no more critical or recommended updates available. Some are only available through a manual detection so hit search for updates even if it doesn't auto detect any.

This whole time you want to be using the bare minimum drivers that come with Windows.

Once all of that is done, test for system stability before you update drivers. Try as hard as possible to crash it with the basic drivers.

If you can't, then install new drivers one at a time (graphics card first) and try hard to crash it after each one. Don't just install all of them in one shot and test for stability later.

If you do it this way, it will be infinitely easier to diagnose what the problem is.
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January 18, 2012 4:46:08 PM

Gotcha... I'll start on that. Now I've tried doing that and one or two of the critical updates would fail, the computer would restart in the former state and it would just continue. Which is why i started updating drivers before completing all windows updates. So should I try and do all the critical windows updates even before the motherboard drivers?

*edit: thanks so much for taking the time, i'm formatting and doing a clean install of windows 7 right now.
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January 18, 2012 5:04:40 PM

grrrr... stuck on expanding windows files (96%)...

pop-up: windows cannot access the installation sources. verify that the installation sources are accessible, and restart the installaion.

bad disc? bad disc drive?
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a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2012 5:54:40 PM

It is weird to have a critical update fail unless it was superseded.

If you had, say, IE 8 installed and you chose a recommended update to install IE9 and there was a critical security update for IE 8, then it might ask you if you want to install IE9 before it did the security update for IE8. During this process it would delete IE8 and make the security update obsolete.

When the time came to install the critical update, the above would cause it to list "FAILED" after the update. There isn't anything wrong with that.

If an update isn't superseded and it fails, then there is probably something wrong with the hard drive or some other hardware.

Yes you should install all the updates before any drivers.

Windows provides many many gigs worth of basic drivers for things, most of which are stable.

In fact, you could probably get by just fine never updating any drivers throughout the life of the computer if you wanted to.

That being said, it is odd to me that the Windows install process cannot be completed.

Is there a scratch on the CD or anything like that?
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January 18, 2012 6:14:01 PM

Nope, no scratches... had to take a break, trying again.
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January 18, 2012 6:31:58 PM

Ok... windows installed successfully, i'll start in on the critical and recommended updates and report back if anything happens.
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January 18, 2012 6:43:27 PM

haha first update computer hung on this screen:



got a bsod, now stuck at the black "starting windows" screen... sounds like the hdd is working... this thing is going out the window in a second.



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a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2012 6:55:36 PM

That's too bad.

It is starting to really sound like a hardware failure.

Try downloading and running MemTest86+

That program picks up a lot of problems other RAM testing things miss so it is worth doubling up alongside the Windows tester.

It could be that or it could be a bad video card.

Do you by any chance have another one laying around you could try instead? Or perhaps one you could borrow from somewhere for a short time?
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January 18, 2012 7:12:23 PM

Well of course the mobo doesn't have on board video... and i was going to grab my old geforce 6800 out of my older build but when i installed it the fan was bound up and i tried fixing it with no luck. so i'm stuck without a spare. i'll try and figure something out... thanks so much for your time. i'll report back if i can get my hands on something. until then, ill try and run memtest in dos to test the ram.

*edit: I've started memtest 4.2, testing 1 stick at a time... how many passes should i go through for each stick? I've read 8 passes but the memtest website faq says it should detect errors in 1 pass. Then it goes on to saying leave it running over night or for days depending on the importance of the system. pretty vague... Any recommendation on # of passes? And should I test both sticks together after doing each separately?

I'm hoping this isn't the video card, really not looking forward to the RMA process. The receipt of all my parts says 2/10/11 so I'm running out of time haha.
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a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 18, 2012 7:52:37 PM

The more passes the better. I have heard of errors appearing in the 5th+ pass.

I would let the program run over night (and potentially longer if you are just going to go to work the next day for 10 hrs too). I usually run such tests on my own computers when I am sleeping because it is the least disruptive.
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January 19, 2012 10:30:57 AM

Ok... Last night while memtest was testing one stick of memory I went to microcenter and got a geforce 210 for 35 bucks to test with. I let memtest run several passes on that one stick with no errors. Rather then start testing the other stick I installed the new video card. I booted up with the one stick that tested ok with no errors and the 210. When I started my comp it got past the black starting windows screen which made me think it may have fixed the problem. I continued to install updates, then got a bsod during an update. I have auto restart shut off so I could take a picture of the bsod, which I'll post below. Now I'm noticing the dump file isn't even being saved, I have the overwrite box checked. This bsod was a little different:

http://postimage.org/image/46wbw6r9j/
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January 19, 2012 10:33:54 AM

brizown151 said:
Ok... Last night while memtest was testing one stick of memory I went to microcenter and got a geforce 210 for 35 bucks to test with. I let memtest run several passes on that one stick with no errors. Rather then start testing the other stick I installed the new video card. I booted up with the one stick that tested ok with no errors and the 210. When I started my comp it got past the black starting windows screen which made me think it may have fixed the problem. I continued to install updates, then got a bsod during an update. I have auto restart shut off so I could take a picture of the bsod, which I'll post below. Now I'm noticing the dump file isn't even being saved, I have the overwrite box checked. This bsod was a little different:

http://postimage.org/image/46wbw6r9j/


Sounds like you've got a bad hard drive, try running the seagate diagnostic utility.
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January 19, 2012 10:46:05 AM

Heya, thanks for the reply. I've run seatools on my hard drive and ran all the tests with no problems. Although where there were options to do a short or long test I chose the short tests. I'll run the long tests and see what happens, just curious if there's a big difference between the short and long tests?
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January 19, 2012 11:00:27 AM

The long tests are just more thorough. Just do a google search for the kernel data in page error, 90% of the time, this is due to a bad hard drive sector, and it seems like it consistent with the rest of your problems.

Edit to clarify: I shouldn't say 90 without noting that it's 90% of the time that it's not just a page file issue.
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January 19, 2012 11:04:54 AM

Alright... before I stab myself in the eyes with chopsticks... I installed the v4 NET framework and now my computer is freezing up when I go to use seatools. The mouse still moves but everything else freezes up. I didn't want to do this but I'm going to skip the hdd tests and go grab my fathers hdd and throw it in.

Annnd as I was typing this I got this new bsod I've never seen before:

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January 19, 2012 11:11:41 AM

brizown151 said:
Alright... before I stab myself in the eyes with chopsticks... I installed the v4 NET framework and now my computer is freezing up when I go to use seatools. The mouse still moves but everything else freezes up. I didn't want to do this but I'm going to skip the hdd tests and go grab my fathers hdd and throw it in.

Annnd as I was typing this I got this new bsod I've never seen before:

http://s19.postimage.org/4lob37bib/IMG_20120119_080144.jpg


Looks more and more like a bad sector, Click my computer, right click the hard drive, go to properties, and run the error checking under the tools tab.
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January 19, 2012 11:19:09 AM

Ok, Running that now... thanks!
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January 19, 2012 12:45:47 PM

So I ran the CHKDSK with both options checked. I left the room while it was doing its thing, was able to catch it hit 100%. After that it showed a brief summary but I wasn't able to read much of it. The computer restarted and before windows started up a black screen popped up saying the NTFS volume was clean. I take it the hdd passed the CHKDSK?
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January 19, 2012 12:56:23 PM

After starting up I let it sit a bit then shut down to try and apply more windows updates. It hangs at "Installing 1 of 9 updates..." then just shuts off.
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January 19, 2012 1:02:02 PM

Ok what's the hard drive set on in the bios ? Might also try moving it to a different sata port on the motherboard.
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January 19, 2012 1:23:44 PM

I've moved the hdd and cd drive to sata ports 5 and 6. I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're asking about the hdd being set on in the bios?

Hmm... went to reboot with the hdd in sata 5 and it wont even boot, I get:

black screen
"A disk read error occurred
press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart"

I'm going to try another sata cable just for shits and giggles, but is it safe to say this mobo is crapping out?
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a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 19, 2012 1:25:13 PM

Does your father have a computer that is substantially the same as the one you have?

I would be surprised if his Windows install would work with your motherboard and if anything I would expect it to BSOD or freeze because of it.
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January 19, 2012 1:33:26 PM

Just making sure you don't have the hard drive set in raid or anyhing like that. With passing multiple hard drive tests, it sounds like a HD controller issue to me. Have you updated the bios on your motherboard ?

Edit: This probably wouldnt change anything if it worked correctly for a year. Very strange problem.
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January 19, 2012 1:41:57 PM

I built his a couple weeks after mine, from what I remember and have for documentation his specs are:

cpu: phenom ii x4 840
mobo: asus m4a78lt-m-le
ram: patriot 4gb 1333
hdd: wd caviar blue 500gb
psu: thermaltake tr2 430w
gpu: onboard video
os: win7

so pretty similar, which is why i thought i could swap the hdd...?
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January 19, 2012 1:52:52 PM

jeremyp1979 said:
Just making sure you don't have the hard drive set in raid or anyhing like that. With passing multiple hard drive tests, it sounds like a HD controller issue to me. Have you updated the bios on your motherboard ?

Edit: This probably wouldnt change anything if it worked correctly for a year. Very strange problem.


Yep, manually updated the bios and reset the cmos jumper. I know, it's killing me. Since he's not here maybe I can swap out some of his parts before he gets home... :non:  haha

I'll check out that program if I can get windows to load. The other thing is it's not saving my dump files from bsod's. I didn't read much into that program but looked like I need the dump files, I'll check it out. Thanks again, I'll report back with anything further.
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January 19, 2012 2:11:19 PM

Ok, found a file that is supposed to have the definitions of all of the parameters for BSOD's.. as soon as Open Office is done downloading I'll see if i can find where yours is pointing at.
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January 19, 2012 2:15:10 PM

Ok so I swapped out a red sata cable for an asus black sata cable... computer booted up no problem and applying windows updates is going ok, 7 out of 9 installed so far and my hdd is going caaarrazzaayy. Seriously, if this was a cable issue... i'm going to puke. I KNEW I should have used the black asus cables, they just looked so cool. Anyway, I'll report back. Might have solved this one :ouch: 
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January 19, 2012 2:32:10 PM

false alarm... i give up, got a gun i can borrow?
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January 19, 2012 2:50:39 PM

Do these :
Try these to clear corruption and repair/replace damaged/missing system files.

Start - type this in Search Box -> COMMAND find at top and RIGHT CLICK - RUN AS ADMIN

Enter this at the prompt - sfc /scannow

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January 19, 2012 3:14:50 PM

it wont even post now... i'm going to get a new mobo, this is silly.
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a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 19, 2012 3:40:37 PM

There are files loaded during the Windows install process that tie it to a specific motherboard. If the two motherboards aren't at least from the same company, you will have like a 1% chance of booting. If it is from the same company and very nearly the same name for the model like this:

Asus M4A68T

and

Asus M4A78T

then maybe you have a better than 1% chance.

Otherwise, it will most likely BSOD before it hits Windows every single time.

Anyway, I would just put his HD back in his computer you probably can't use it without formatting it and blowing away all his files.

Let me know how the new motherboard thing works out.
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January 19, 2012 4:47:51 PM

Yea that makes sense, his computer is back safe and sound. I picked up a m4n68t-m v2 on "clearance" for 45 bucks. I'm going to start in on installing it, hopefully without committing a pc murder. Shouldn't be too bad as long as all my cords/connectors reach since they're all so nicely zip tied in place... ugh. Thanks for the support up to this point, I'll let you know how it goes!

One more thing... Do I need to format my current HDD now since it has the msi files on it or whatever? Will I have the same problem trying to use it with the asus? How would I go about that if so, adding it as a second drive in my pops comp and formatting that way?
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a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 19, 2012 5:37:44 PM

You can just install your hard drive in your computer and then put in your Windows CD and boot off of it. It will let you erase the old setup and install new on like the 2nd or 3rd menu that comes up.

When you get into Windows, then go on the internet and download Avira Anti Virus free version so your computer doesn't get a virus in the first few minutes of putting it online.

It is nagware (it asks you to buy the full version every so often), but it is good.

You could also go to www.microsoft.com and download "Microsoft Security Essentials" instead. I don't know how good it is, though, but I don't think it nags you about anything.

After you do one or the other of those things (not both), then do all the critical and recommended Windows updates next. Then restart and scan for more updates. Do the next ones and restart. Then scan for more updates, and so on until you restart and scan for new ones and there are none.

After that and before you update any drivers, test your system for stability.

Don't install any drivers you don't have to until you test your system for stability with all the Windows Updates you can get.
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January 19, 2012 6:35:36 PM

Hey! Thought you gave up on me haha. Anyway, what a *** show... when I went to install the board I realized there was no back plate in the box! I couldn't believe it. So I called and caused a bit of a ruckus about how the box clearly said "complete" and gas and what not. I had to drive back there and they took 20 off and gave me a back plate, so that kind of worked out for the better. But I'll do just that raiddinn, as long as the damn board isn't defective. Knowing my luck... I'll let you guys know. Thanks.
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January 19, 2012 8:11:54 PM

Well the mobo POST'd, formatting and installing windows now... I'll be psyched if this works for 25 bucks, i'll let ya know.

*edit: mmmmmm hefeweizen
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a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 19, 2012 8:19:27 PM

Lets hope so.
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January 19, 2012 9:32:13 PM

All "important" updates complete w/ no problems... moving onto the optional ones.
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Best solution

January 19, 2012 9:35:18 PM

Awesome! Seems like the Sata controller on the board went wonky then.
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January 19, 2012 10:27:21 PM

still updating no problems... i guess i'll try and rma the msi board tomorrow. i've never rma'd anything, i hear it's a lengthy painful process.
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January 19, 2012 11:32:01 PM



So far so good... on to the stability tests, then I can try and OC on this $25 mobo :D 

Thanks guys, you both were great. How do I go about commending you for your efforts?
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January 19, 2012 11:57:36 PM

Pick the post that you feel helped you the most in the overall process, click it as best answer, Glad to see you got it running right finally! Happy gaming
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a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 20, 2012 12:51:44 AM

Once you get done with the stability tests, you can install drivers one at a time and test for stability after each one. If it starts crashing after one of the drivers, you will know that is the problem.
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January 20, 2012 12:45:47 PM

Ran 6 hours of Prime95 last night with no problems and 2 hours of FurMark this morning on the GPU. Max temps looked good although my CPU idle temps are kind of high... idling at 38 via coretemp right now. I manually set the CPU voltage to 1.35 and turned CoolNQuiet off before the above stress tests... Is 38 idle acceptable or should I re-seat my cooler before going further?
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!