PS2 Backups - help needed

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Only just purchased a PS2 for my son (8 yrs). Started to backup the few
games that he has but have encountered a problem with the first backup.

The game loads but the menu screen is steppy, sometimes freezes for 10/20
seconds and slow, when you actually start playing the game it plays fine
with no problems.

This is the first backup of a PS2 game I've tried, I have searched the forum
for some ideas on help but I have read so much that all the advice seems to
be contradicting each piece I read.

Used games X copy software, Pioneer 106, Ritek DVD-R, Can't remember the
speed it was burnt at, PS2 (7000), Slim tools + SwapDisc 3.6

Any help is really appreciated.

Bev

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

looks like you invested a lot of $ into getting backup software, you
could have just hit ebay with that money and had a ton of games for
your son.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"The Stanleys" <nospamchris.stanley@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:A5iIe.9215$hc4.8167@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...

> Any help is really appreciated.

Sorry, wrong group.

 

[owen]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"The Stanleys" <nospamchris.stanley@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:A5iIe.9215$hc4.8167@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> Only just purchased a PS2 for my son (8 yrs). Started to backup the few
> games that he has but have encountered a problem with the first backup.
>
> The game loads but the menu screen is steppy, sometimes freezes for 10/20
> seconds and slow, when you actually start playing the game it plays fine
> with no problems.
>
> This is the first backup of a PS2 game I've tried, I have searched the
> forum for some ideas on help but I have read so much that all the advice
> seems to be contradicting each piece I read.
>
> Used games X copy software, Pioneer 106, Ritek DVD-R, Can't remember the
> speed it was burnt at, PS2 (7000), Slim tools + SwapDisc 3.6
>
> Any help is really appreciated.
>
> Bev
>

Don't give us that bollocks, there is no legitimate "backup" of a PS2 game
or any other game for that matter. It's called copying. Or theiving.


Owen

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Owen <spam@spam.com> wrote:

> Don't give us that bollocks, there is no legitimate "backup" of a PS2 game
> or any other game for that matter. It's called copying. Or theiving.

Backup is a copy, big deal.

But it's only thievery if he doesn't keep BOTH the original and the copy
together.

However, in the US, use of a modchip IS illegal, so even though you can
(legally!) make backup copy of the game, you can't legally use it.
Although it'd be an amusing trial if it ever went to court...

Not that you should have to bother with backups at all. Game companies
will mail you a new disc in case yours gets damaged - so long as you can
prove you bought the game, and foot the bill for postage.

Even then, shouldn't your 8 year old be able to handle CD/DVDs by now? If
not, time to teach him. If he still has trouble, then maybe after a few
broken games he'll be willing to be more careful.

 

[ted]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Doug Jacobs wrote:
snip
> Not that you should have to bother with backups at all. Game companies
> will mail you a new disc in case yours gets damaged - so long as you can
> prove you bought the game, and foot the bill for postage.
snip

Is there an article anywhere discussing someone who has done this? Or is
it just an urban myth? Because I'm sure someone out there lost their
discs for Panzer Dragoon Saga in a fire and would love to have Sega send
them new ones.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Ted <nospamforted@nospam.com> wrote:

> Is there an article anywhere discussing someone who has done this? Or is
> it just an urban myth? Because I'm sure someone out there lost their
> discs for Panzer Dragoon Saga in a fire and would love to have Sega send
> them new ones.

You'll need the manual, unfortunatly... If you look under the
license/warranty section in the back, they'll describe how to get a
replacement disc. The proof of ownership, unfortunatly, is that you have
to send them a page from the manual I think.

 

[ted]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Doug Jacobs wrote:
>
> Ted <nospamforted@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there an article anywhere discussing someone who has done this? Or is
> > it just an urban myth? Because I'm sure someone out there lost their
> > discs for Panzer Dragoon Saga in a fire and would love to have Sega send
> > them new ones.
>
> You'll need the manual, unfortunatly... If you look under the
> license/warranty section in the back, they'll describe how to get a
> replacement disc. The proof of ownership, unfortunatly, is that you have
> to send them a page from the manual I think.

That actually makes backups a good idea in several situations then,
namely total destruction, theft or becoming completely lost (lost in
shipping, box falls off the moving van, etc.)
(And note that my thinking is that Sega doesn't have any copies of PDS
to send out; I doubt they even have copies of Sonic Adventure on the
Dreamcast to send out. Also, while I don't have PDS, my manual for the
contemporary to PDS Burning Rangers basically says "if it breaks, you
can call us, and we might sell you another one, unless it's in the first
90 days, then if it was actually made badly, you might get it for free,
but not even then if you engaged in something called "unreasonable use
or abuse"". Looking at Wipeout Pure for PSP, it essentially says the
same thing, except without the intimation that they might do anything
for you after 90 days. And Bomberman Jetters on the Gamecube is l8ike
that too. These were the closest manuals at hand for me. None of them
provide for that thing you claim, only for defects in workmanship in the
first 90 days of ownership. Can you point to any source showing someone
getting a scratched disc that didn't come that way being replaced by the company?)

 

[BlackKnight]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:11f7k87hoaf178b@corp.supernews.com...
> Owen <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>> Don't give us that bollocks, there is no legitimate "backup" of a PS2
>> game
>> or any other game for that matter. It's called copying. Or theiving.
>
> Backup is a copy, big deal.
>
> But it's only thievery if he doesn't keep BOTH the original and the copy
> together.
>


Here we go again!

That is a myth!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

BlackKnight <terry_37@no_spamemail.com> wrote:

> > Backup is a copy, big deal.
> >
> > But it's only thievery if he doesn't keep BOTH the original and the copy
> > together.

> Here we go again!

> That is a myth!

Oh? So you're legally allowed to make and distribute(*) copies of any game
you buy, rent or borrow?

(Where distribute means "sell" or just plain "give away")

 

[BlackKnight]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:11ffq4o7982p668@corp.supernews.com...
> BlackKnight <terry_37@no_spamemail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Backup is a copy, big deal.
>> >
>> > But it's only thievery if he doesn't keep BOTH the original and the
>> > copy
>> > together.
>
>> Here we go again!
>
>> That is a myth!
>
> Oh? So you're legally allowed to make and distribute(*) copies of any
> game
> you buy, rent or borrow?
>
> (Where distribute means "sell" or just plain "give away")
>

No you missed the point again. The myth is that you are allowed to make a
backup. Legally you aren't allowed to make any copies at all.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

BlackKnight <terry_37@no_spamemail.com> wrote:

> No you missed the point again. The myth is that you are allowed to make a
> backup. Legally you aren't allowed to make any copies at all.

You ARE allowed to make a backup for archival purposes. "Archival
pursposes" means that you retain possession of both the original and any
copies you have made. You are not allowed to sell, lend, or give away the
copies to anyone else. Furthermore, if you sell, lend, give away, or
dispose of the original, you must hand over or destroy any copies as well.

Copies can include backups, as well as installed images on your
computer - so if you install a game on your PC, you aren't technically
allowed to lend that game to your friend unless you delete your install.

I know that the video game companies have lately been saying that you
aren't allowed to make a copy of their games, but they are wrong. The
copyright law still allows archival copies to be made - and nothing the
game companies say in their license agreements changes this.

Now, where things get messy is that in order for you to actually *USE*
your (LEGAL!) archival copy, you have to use a modchip - which IS illegal
in the US (thank you idiot government for the unconstitutional DMCA...)

Now then, if someone would like to organize a class action suit against
the video game market for preventing us from exercising our rights under
the copyright law, be my guest. Maybe we'll finally get rid of the DMCA
as well. Of course, you'll be going up against the combined might of Sony
and Microsoft, not to mention all the other game studios...

 

[owen]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:11fil5fg7qhn178@corp.supernews.com...
> BlackKnight <terry_37@no_spamemail.com> wrote:
>
>> No you missed the point again. The myth is that you are allowed to make a
>> backup. Legally you aren't allowed to make any copies at all.
>
> You ARE allowed to make a backup for archival purposes. "Archival
> pursposes" means that you retain possession of both the original and any
> copies you have made. You are not allowed to sell, lend, or give away the
> copies to anyone else. Furthermore, if you sell, lend, give away, or
> dispose of the original, you must hand over or destroy any copies as well.

Even if this is correct, the point remains, anyone who seriously feels the
need to "archive" their game discs must be some kind of idiot. Why is it so
difficult simply to look after the original discs and treat them with due
care? And if you have riotous kids then damn well keep your discs away
from them.

By the way Doug, I'd love to see a URL which backs up your claims about the
legalities here.

Owen

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Owen wrote:
> "Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
> news:11fil5fg7qhn178@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>BlackKnight <terry_37@no_spamemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>No you missed the point again. The myth is that you are allowed to make a
>>>backup. Legally you aren't allowed to make any copies at all.
>>
>>You ARE allowed to make a backup for archival purposes. "Archival
>>pursposes" means that you retain possession of both the original and any
>>copies you have made. You are not allowed to sell, lend, or give away the
>>copies to anyone else. Furthermore, if you sell, lend, give away, or
>>dispose of the original, you must hand over or destroy any copies as well.
>
>
> Even if this is correct, the point remains, anyone who seriously feels the
> need to "archive" their game discs must be some kind of idiot. Why is it so
> difficult simply to look after the original discs and treat them with due
> care? And if you have riotous kids then damn well keep your discs away
> from them.
>
> By the way Doug, I'd love to see a URL which backs up your claims about the
> legalities here.

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117

 

[BlackKnight]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Grinder" <grinder@no.spam.maam.com> wrote in message
news:XboKe.255705$xm3.40599@attbi_s21...
> Owen wrote:
>> "Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
>> news:11fil5fg7qhn178@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>>BlackKnight <terry_37@no_spamemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>No you missed the point again. The myth is that you are allowed to make
>>>>a
>>>>backup. Legally you aren't allowed to make any copies at all.
>>>
>>>You ARE allowed to make a backup for archival purposes. "Archival
>>>pursposes" means that you retain possession of both the original and any
>>>copies you have made. You are not allowed to sell, lend, or give away
>>>the
>>>copies to anyone else. Furthermore, if you sell, lend, give away, or
>>>dispose of the original, you must hand over or destroy any copies as
>>>well.
>>
>>
>> Even if this is correct, the point remains, anyone who seriously feels
>> the need to "archive" their game discs must be some kind of idiot. Why
>> is it so difficult simply to look after the original discs and treat them
>> with due care? And if you have riotous kids then damn well keep your
>> discs away from them.
>>
>> By the way Doug, I'd love to see a URL which backs up your claims about
>> the legalities here.
>
> http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117

I'd have said that was more geared towards computer programs that run on PCs
than PS2 games and nowhere on that page is there any mention of computer
games.

Methinks some people doth protest too much, and those that doth are most
likely the ones who make their "backups" and then sell the originals
conveniently forgetting to destroy/sell the backup as well.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

BlackKnight wrote:
> "Grinder" <grinder@no.spam.maam.com> wrote in message
> news:XboKe.255705$xm3.40599@attbi_s21...
>
>>Owen wrote:
>>
>>>"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
>>>news:11fil5fg7qhn178@corp.supernews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>BlackKnight <terry_37@no_spamemail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>No you missed the point again. The myth is that you are allowed to make
>>>>>a
>>>>>backup. Legally you aren't allowed to make any copies at all.
>>>>
>>>>You ARE allowed to make a backup for archival purposes. "Archival
>>>>pursposes" means that you retain possession of both the original and any
>>>>copies you have made. You are not allowed to sell, lend, or give away
>>>>the
>>>>copies to anyone else. Furthermore, if you sell, lend, give away, or
>>>>dispose of the original, you must hand over or destroy any copies as
>>>>well.
>>>
>>>
>>>Even if this is correct, the point remains, anyone who seriously feels
>>>the need to "archive" their game discs must be some kind of idiot. Why
>>>is it so difficult simply to look after the original discs and treat them
>>>with due care? And if you have riotous kids then damn well keep your
>>>discs away from them.
>>>
>>>By the way Doug, I'd love to see a URL which backs up your claims about
>>>the legalities here.
>>
>>http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117
>
>
> I'd have said that was more geared towards computer programs that run on PCs
> than PS2 games and nowhere on that page is there any mention of computer
> games.

There's no mention of spreadsheet applications either -- can you make
archival copies of those? It's simple enough, PS2 games are software
than run on a specific set of proprietary computers, so it qualifies for
the exception.

 

[BlackKnight]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Grinder" <grinder@no.spam.maam.com> wrote in message
news:18xKe.257981$xm3.217572@attbi_s21...
> BlackKnight wrote:
>> "Grinder" <grinder@no.spam.maam.com> wrote in message
>> news:XboKe.255705$xm3.40599@attbi_s21...
>>
>>>Owen wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:11fil5fg7qhn178@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>BlackKnight <terry_37@no_spamemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>No you missed the point again. The myth is that you are allowed to
>>>>>>make a
>>>>>>backup. Legally you aren't allowed to make any copies at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>You ARE allowed to make a backup for archival purposes. "Archival
>>>>>pursposes" means that you retain possession of both the original and
>>>>>any
>>>>>copies you have made. You are not allowed to sell, lend, or give away
>>>>>the
>>>>>copies to anyone else. Furthermore, if you sell, lend, give away, or
>>>>>dispose of the original, you must hand over or destroy any copies as
>>>>>well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Even if this is correct, the point remains, anyone who seriously feels
>>>>the need to "archive" their game discs must be some kind of idiot. Why
>>>>is it so difficult simply to look after the original discs and treat
>>>>them with due care? And if you have riotous kids then damn well keep
>>>>your discs away from them.
>>>>
>>>>By the way Doug, I'd love to see a URL which backs up your claims about
>>>>the legalities here.
>>>
>>>http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#117
>>
>>
>> I'd have said that was more geared towards computer programs that run on
>> PCs than PS2 games and nowhere on that page is there any mention of
>> computer games.
>
> There's no mention of spreadsheet applications either -- can you make
> archival copies of those? It's simple enough, PS2 games are software than
> run on a specific set of proprietary computers, so it qualifies for the
> exception.
>
>
>

OK forget the whether its legal or not to make copies argument and get back
to the business of copying PS2 games.

If Sony were prepared to let you legally make backups of your games you
would be able to run the backups on a standard PS2.

As you have to actually modify the PS2 to get it to use the backups doesn't
that tell you that they don't want you making the copes?

As you said, you can make an archival copy of your spreadsheet, but if you
have to actually use it you don't have to take your computer apart and stick
a modification in to do so.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Owen <spam@spam.com> wrote:

> Even if this is correct, the point remains, anyone who seriously feels the
> need to "archive" their game discs must be some kind of idiot. Why is it so
> difficult simply to look after the original discs and treat them with due
> care? And if you have riotous kids then damn well keep your discs away
> from them.

Ah, well the ability to do something and the reason to do something are
different matters. I merely wanted to state that you can make legal
copies of software if you follow the guidelines. WHY you would need to
make those copies is a different matter.

> By the way Doug, I'd love to see a URL which backs up your claims about the
> legalities here.

I know I've posted a link on this before, but I can't find that post right
now. Many universities have statements about copyright law and software,
like this one:

http://www.uvm.edu/~uvmppg/ppg/cit/fairuse.htm

Specifically, read the first paragraph after "Questions You May Have About
Using Software".

Since video games are software, and the copyright law doesn't differ for
university vs. non-university settings, I think it's still relevant.

There was discussion in the DMCA about whether the "archival backup"
provision is outdated with software being distributed on CD ROM - however
the arguments fail to take into consideration that many applications
(games) *REQUIRE* the constant use of the disc while that application is
in use.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

BlackKnight <terry_37@no_spamemail.com> wrote:

> I'd have said that was more geared towards computer programs that run on PCs
> than PS2 games and nowhere on that page is there any mention of computer
> games.

The PS2 is a computer, ergo, the games it runs are software.

And if you read the license included with games, it refers to them as
SOFTWARE.

Otherwise, what would you classify computer games as?

> Methinks some people doth protest too much, and those that doth are most
> likely the ones who make their "backups" and then sell the originals
> conveniently forgetting to destroy/sell the backup as well.

While a large number of people who DO want to make copies while calling them
"backups" are actually pirates does not mean that everyone who talks about
backups is a pirate.

I think I've made it very clear that I don't advocate illegal copying.
However it is incorrect to say that ALL copies are illegal.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

BlackKnight <terry_37@no_spamemail.com> wrote:

> OK forget the whether its legal or not to make copies argument and get back
> to the business of copying PS2 games.

> If Sony were prepared to let you legally make backups of your games you
> would be able to run the backups on a standard PS2.

> As you have to actually modify the PS2 to get it to use the backups doesn't
> that tell you that they don't want you making the copes?

> As you said, you can make an archival copy of your spreadsheet, but if you
> have to actually use it you don't have to take your computer apart and stick
> a modification in to do so.

This is akin to when software came on floppies, and companies used unusual
methods to make their floppies "uncopyable". For instance, one method
was to intentionally write a bad sector on the floppy, which would cause
most copy programs to fail, thinking the original disk was bad. This
resulted in stronger copy programs that would ignore such 'defects' and
just make the copy with the bad sector.

The current situation with consoles is that they have implemented the copy
protection on the hardware, instead of with the software. Prior to the
DMCA, use of modchips to play LEGAL copies of games, or imports was
legal.

However, now the DMCA makes modchips - regardless of how you use them -
illegal. This causes a conflict however, since the copyright law still
says you are allowed to make - and use - archival copies. So technically,
Sony is violating your rights by implementing copy protection.

Unfortunatly, if you ever dragged into court for playing a legal archival
backup on a console with a modchip, chances are you'd be sentenced to 50
years in a "pound you in the ass" prison simply because Sony's lawyers are
much better paid than yours will be.

Want another example? Look at DVDs and region-encoding. If you use a
modified DVD player to play a DVD you bought from another country/region,
you're technically breaking the law. How nice.