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So was Ivy Bridge worth waiting for?

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May 6, 2012 6:38:58 PM

So I read some reviews last night. Apparently the Ivy can get quite hot because of the solder they used or something.

So is it really worth waiting for now? I thought I would wait it out for my new gaming rig.

I am going to get an I5 2500k and I want to overclock in the future since I have never overclocked before.
a b à CPUs
May 6, 2012 6:55:24 PM

It's not the solder they found out. Unless you're overclocking above 4.5Ghz then get Ivy bridge i5 3570k, Ivy doesn't like voltage so use the minimum for your overclock to minimise temps.
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May 6, 2012 7:00:16 PM

is Intel going to fix this problem since Sandy Bridges will be phased out.

Why 3570k?
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a c 186 à CPUs
May 6, 2012 7:10:15 PM

Since you are overclocking, go with the 2500k.
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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 6, 2012 7:12:46 PM

for gaming? no

but for video encoding YES!
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May 6, 2012 7:13:56 PM

for people that had high end i5s or i7s from either of the first two generations( ie i7 920, i5 2500k), it wasnt worth waiting. but it was a tick not a tock for intel. so not much of an improvement was expected. though they did modify the architecture more than they normally do.

it still overclocks fantastically in my opinion. you can jump it up 500Mhz without touching voltage. thats awesome. but it does tend to top off at 4.8GHz some do 4.9GHz before there is a sharp increase in temp for any additional speed increase. so if you for some reason want 5GHz and will settle for nothing less go 2500k but a 3570k at 4.8 will be faster. and use less power.

ive read about 5 reviews on the new line of processors and if i wasn't already rocking a i7 950 i would have grabbed a 3570k in a heartbeat.

make sure you get a motherboard that supports virtu mvp. it will make your games much smoother.
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a b à CPUs
May 6, 2012 7:28:47 PM

if you own a pre-i7 CPU release, take IB and do not overclock excessively by ensuring the voltage and the temp do not exceed above the recommended levels. If you have a pc with the i5 or the i7 (3-4 years old), try overclocking them and wait for Haswell.
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a c 138 à CPUs
May 6, 2012 7:28:58 PM

zyzz said:
is Intel going to fix this problem since Sandy Bridges will be phased out.

The higher temp on IB is partly due to using paste instead of solder TIM between the CPU die and heat-spreader and Intel says this was expected. Nothing to 'fix' there, it is as-designed unless they end up with an unexpected increase in field failure rates that get traced back to this change.
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May 6, 2012 7:54:02 PM

I will be buying my next computer for pure gaming. as stated in OP I have never overclocked and I want that option.

So Ivybridge doesn't seem worth it if I can't overclock to the maximum.

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a c 344 à CPUs
May 6, 2012 8:24:23 PM

I was a bit disappointed.
The higher efficiency per clock was as expected, but the reduced upper limit of an OC was not.

If you have a 2500K, there is little reason for the gamer to upgrade to a 3570K.

But, if this is a new build, then I would go for the 3570K at a similar price. With a safe OC, you will do as well, or better than a 2500K.
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a b à CPUs
May 6, 2012 8:27:13 PM

Once you start overclocking you will naturally gravitate towards watching cpu temps. Get the sandy bridge i5 so you will have peace of mind.

Or you can always wait for a new stepping and compare people's results. Cheers and GL.
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May 6, 2012 8:37:20 PM

everyone recommends the I5 2500K and according to reviews it performs the best.

I have never heard of the 3570k.
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May 6, 2012 9:13:03 PM

The i5-3570k is the new unlocked Ivy bridge i5 chip.

In terms of performance over the i5-2500k they are almost identical. The i5-3750k performs slightly better than the i5-2500k at non-overclocked status. The slightly is around 5%-10% in different tests.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/4618/ivy_bridge_previ...

In terms of overclocking the 2500k overclocks to a higher Ghz easier compared to an i5-3570k. But, the i5-3570k overclocks with a lower voltage and uses less power for the performance gain.

For me, I purchased an i5-3570k because it was cheaper than the i5-2500k at the time of purchase and I used the savings to buy a Solid State Drive where I'll see greater gains compared to the small potential performance gain of overclocking an i5-2500k versus overclocking an i5-3750k.

From what I've read it isn't clear that there is actually a performance gain of an overclocked i5-2500k versus an overclocked i5-3750k. I haven't found a one to one comparison of benchmarks on the same platform I am just going with popular opinion of people who i5-2500ks and have overclocked them to around 5Ghz.

Performance of i5-3750k overclocked compared to other CPUs. Unfortunately they didn't compare to an i5-2500k overclocked.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/4621/intel_ivy_bridge...

Good article regarding overclocking the i5-3750k:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5763/undervolting-and-ove...
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a b à CPUs
May 6, 2012 9:58:18 PM

So was Ivy Bridge worth waiting for?

NO!!

You MUST wat 2-3 generations for any SIGNIFICANT leap. FACT!!
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a c 138 à CPUs
May 7, 2012 1:05:13 AM

mesab66 said:
You MUST wat 2-3 generations for any SIGNIFICANT leap. FACT!!

And this is becoming even truer with each passing year as more low-end CPUs are becoming sufficient for an increasingly broader variety of formerly CPU-bound everyday tasks, which has the effect of accentuating the "diminishing return" character of processing power beyond that.

My Core2Duo is still good enough for most of my everyday stuff so I am not in much of a hurry to go ahead with my i5-3470 upgrade. I could shave a few bucks by aiming for future i3-3xxx but then the typical perceived performance difference would likely not feel worth bothering with.
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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 7, 2012 1:19:54 AM

InvalidError said:

My Core2Duo is still good enough for most of my everyday stuff so I am not in much of a hurry to go ahead with my i5-3470 upgrade. I could shave a few bucks by aiming for future i3-3xxx but then the typical perceived performance difference would likely not feel worth bothering with.

FYI, i had an immediate impact going from a overclocked E8400 to the i3 2120. windows booted faster and most apps start as soon as i lift my finger from my mouse button. i am NOT saying a C2D is slow or old however.

i can't say much for gaming because i also upgraded from a 9600GT to a 550ti . .so that isn't exactly objective.

but it is night and day between a core duo and a sandy.
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May 7, 2012 1:53:26 AM

My upgrade will be from an AMD 64 X2 6000+.

I was waiting for ivy bridge since january. but now that it looks like it can't overclock as well I might as well get sandybridge before they are all gone.
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a c 138 à CPUs
May 7, 2012 1:53:41 AM

Anonymous said:
FYI, i had an immediate impact going from a overclocked E8400 to the i3 2120. windows booted faster and most apps start as soon as i lift my finger from my mouse button.

Since load times are heavily disk-bound, I'm a bit puzzled about how/why a faster CPU would help. Other factors that may be related to the platform upgrade probably contribute more than the CPU itself.

That said, I have no idea how long my C2D takes to boot since I reboot it less than once a month for updates and I usually go AFK when I initiate the restart, shaving 10 seconds off a non-interactive process is of relatively little importance.
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May 7, 2012 2:17:33 AM

So i keep hearing about how ivy bridge heats up alot but is that only when overclocked?
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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 7, 2012 2:28:42 AM

InvalidError said:
Since load times are heavily disk-bound, I'm a bit puzzled about how/why a faster CPU would help. Other factors that may be related to the platform upgrade probably contribute more than the CPU itself.

That said, I have no idea how long my C2D takes to boot since I reboot it less than once a month for updates and I usually go AFK when I initiate the restart, shaving 10 seconds off a non-interactive process is of relatively little importance.

you got a point there and i did use some rather poor examples.

though true we are looking at faster RAM DDR3 as opposed to DDR2 but, i guess that just comes with the neighborhood.

best i can say is i seen my DVD encodes speed up to about 30% faster with convertX to DVD which doesn't use quick sync. what took 17- 20 minutes is now around 12 minutes.
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Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 7, 2012 2:34:24 AM

alec91 said:
So i keep hearing about how ivy bridge heats up alot but is that only when overclocked?

pretty much and then how much with what voltage

Undervolting and Overclocking on Ivy Bridge
i'll take 0.95 volts @ 4.0Ghz under 60c please :) 
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May 7, 2012 2:47:33 AM

i have a 3770K @ 4.4GHz with temps reaching a max of 60C but average in the 40's during gaming.
i reached 4.4GHz at stock voltage too, didn't change anything except the multiplier.

i have a cooler master hyper 212+ on it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

i waited for ivy bridge, it was worth it to me.

edit: also, it may be "more hot" but realize that intel raised the official TJ MAX Temp of ivy bridge to 105C instead of 95. so u can go up to 95C and shouldnt have to worry, u shouldnt but still.
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May 7, 2012 3:09:57 AM

so it seems like ivy is crap if your a gamer. you risk damaging the parts if you go to crazy with overclocking.
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May 7, 2012 3:15:00 AM

zyzz said:
so it seems like ivy is crap if your a gamer. you risk damaging the parts if you go to crazy with overclocking.

no, not really, no.
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May 7, 2012 3:19:59 AM

looking at that chart it doesn't look very good. I just checked an article on pc world as well.

i5 2500k sandy can do 5.0ghz safely.
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May 7, 2012 3:26:11 AM

zyzz said:
looking at that chart it doesn't look very good. I just checked an article on pc world as well.

i5 2500k sandy can do 5.0ghz safely.

u can get 4.8 if u try hard for the 3570K.
im pretty sure a 3570K @ 4.8GHz will beat a 2500K @ 5.0GHz
also dont forget that ivy bridge is new, which means new stuff.
uses PCI-E 3.0, USB 3.0, overclock RAM up to 2800MHz, less wattage, and hd 4000 graphics.
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May 7, 2012 3:39:33 AM

I don't need HD 4000 graphics sine this is a gaming computer.

Sandy bridge has usb 3.0.

does it not have pci-e 3.0?

never overclocked anything and i don't know nothing about ram.
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a b à CPUs
May 7, 2012 3:51:56 AM

Lol. About as much as Bulldozer was worth waiting for...
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a c 127 à CPUs
May 7, 2012 4:03:30 AM

farrengottu said:
for people that had high end i5s or i7s from either of the first two generations( ie i7 920, i5 2500k), it wasnt worth waiting. but it was a tick not a tock for intel. so not much of an improvement was expected. though they did modify the architecture more than they normally do.

it still overclocks fantastically in my opinion. you can jump it up 500Mhz without touching voltage. thats awesome. but it does tend to top off at 4.8GHz some do 4.9GHz before there is a sharp increase in temp for any additional speed increase. so if you for some reason want 5GHz and will settle for nothing less go 2500k but a 3570k at 4.8 will be faster. and use less power.

ive read about 5 reviews on the new line of processors and if i wasn't already rocking a i7 950 i would have grabbed a 3570k in a heartbeat.

make sure you get a motherboard that supports virtu mvp. it will make your games much smoother.


If someone has a i7 920, its still worth it to go even to a Sandy Bridge setup as the overclocks are much higher (i.e. 4.5GHz on air is normal for SB, 4-4.2GHz of Nehalem) and the IPC is also much higher.

If someone had SB, it was not worth moving to IB as the performance difference was not enough. Haswel will be the next thing to upgrade to fram SB more than likley.
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May 7, 2012 4:15:50 AM

Haswel? Let me guess that is after Ivy Bridge...

When is that coming out, in the fall?

Ivy Bridge doesn't look very good. I just watched another review on youtube.

The only good thing is the HD 4000 graphics. That is useless to me.
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a c 283 à CPUs
May 7, 2012 4:22:01 AM

zyzz said:
Haswel? Let me guess that is after Ivy Bridge...

When is that coming out, in the fall?

Ivy Bridge doesn't look very good. I just watched another review on youtube.

The only good thing is the HD 4000 graphics. That is useless to me.


Haswll will be early to late Q2 2013.

Other than that, IB has PCIe 3.0, but, if you're running a single PCIe 3.0 card setup, there's no real advantage to that in games.
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May 7, 2012 4:26:35 AM

so what, do I need Pci express 3.0?
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May 7, 2012 4:27:15 AM

i was only waiting in hopes of 2500k prices drops, and since there haven't been any, it surely was not worth the wait.
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a c 283 à CPUs
May 7, 2012 4:32:51 AM

zyzz said:
so what, do I need Pci express 3.0?


LOL, No, not really with a single card in this current generation of GPU's, although, it can help a bit in SLI/Crossfire setups. Having it now is more like a future proofing kinda thing, I suppose, but most people will upgrade their whole system before PCIe 3.0 matters in a single card setup.
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a c 119 à CPUs
May 7, 2012 4:38:59 AM

i have a i7 920 and its not worth the price to swap platform for the gains i would get.
less than 5% in games but 10-15% in other apps if i stick with my current gpu.
if i do an upgrade i expect a minimum of a 50% gain across the board and that wont happen till haswell and it may not happen then until they do a stepping change.
if you have an gen 1 i5 or i7 based platform then save your money as there will be little in the way of gains till 22nm matures...
currently the neph will handle any gfx card you throw at it so no theres no reason to get ivy bridge..
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May 7, 2012 4:49:45 AM

yeah I thought Sandy Bridges will get cheaper.

So Sandy Bridges won't be produced anymore right? So I gotta jump on ship and get one before they are gone?

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a c 127 à CPUs
May 7, 2012 5:57:28 AM

HEXiT said:
i have a i7 920 and its not worth the price to swap platform for the gains i would get.
less than 5% in games but 10-15% in other apps if i stick with my current gpu.
if i do an upgrade i expect a minimum of a 50% gain across the board and that wont happen till haswell and it may not happen then until they do a stepping change.
if you have an gen 1 i5 or i7 based platform then save your money as there will be little in the way of gains till 22nm matures...
currently the neph will handle any gfx card you throw at it so no theres no reason to get ivy bridge..


You are forgetting many factors. For one, SB does about 20% better performance in some apps, most games is 5-10% that is per clock. Then there is overclocking. Most i7 920s would hit 4GHz, on very high end air cooling while most 2500/2600Ks will hit 4.4-4.5GHz on the same air cooling. Thats a 500MHz advantage which adds to overall performance. Then the lowe power usage helps as well.

It was worth moving to SB if you had a first gen i5/i7. It was not worth moving to Gulftown from Nehalem as it was a die shrink. Its not worth moving to IB if you have SB. Die shrinks are nice but overall not really worth moving to unless you have very old hardware like a Core 2 Quad.

As for the 50%, if Haswell pulls a SB it will. Remember it is a new arch, not a die shrink and therefore has more potential. Also, a new stepping will not increase performance. Most stepping improvements are TDP and erreta based. Sometimes it leads to better overclocks (Q6600 G0 or i7 920 D0) but not always. The main performance gains for Haswel will be in the arch changes and tweaks.

zyzz said:
yeah I thought Sandy Bridges will get cheaper.

So Sandy Bridges won't be produced anymore right? So I gotta jump on ship and get one before they are gone?


Sandy Bridge will probably start their EoL phase. That means Intel will start to ramp production down and then look to convert the FABs to 22n or whatever they deem necessary. I would say that by the end of this year we wont be able to get many Sandy Bridge CPUs. AMD stopped production of Phenom II and Athlon II end of year last year and the stock ran out very fast. Within a month we were not able to get any except the lowest end Athlon II X2s.

Of course Intel does have a much larger FAB base and is able to produce more than AMD but the supply will run out very fast.
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May 7, 2012 6:04:46 AM

well I don't know what to do. I am watching many reviews.

Sandy Bridge still seems better for gaming and even in general. unless your a noob and wants onboard graphics. then again why would you buy such a high end processor. buy a laptop or a computer from bestbuy or something.
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a c 127 à CPUs
May 7, 2012 6:08:39 AM

zyzz said:
well I don't know what to do. I am watching many reviews.

Sandy Bridge still seems better for gaming and even in general. unless your a noob and wants onboard graphics. then again why would you buy such a high end processor. buy a laptop or a computer from bestbuy or something.


You realize that you can use both the IGP and a GPU at the same time with the Lucid Virtu? ANd the Lucid MVP uses the IGP as a sort of VSYNC frame buffer to help keep the FPS smooth.

So you can have the best of both worlds, use the IGP for quick sync and then your GUP as the main game power. I wish they had a way to use it like laptops do with the IGP for basic stuff anf the GPU for gaming. Would be a great power saver.
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a c 138 à CPUs
May 7, 2012 7:14:25 AM

zyzz said:
so it seems like ivy is crap if your a gamer.

Is there even one game currently out there or in the foreseeable future that even requires overclocking to reach beyond reasonable FPS (say 60+) even on a stock-clocked i5-3570 when fitted with a powerful enough GPU to be CPU-bound?

Most games are optimized to work more than reasonably well on a average-ish gaming PCs. Playing them at the performance level intended by the designers (usually vsync) rarely requires overclocking on reasonably recent platforms. Aside from bragging rights for high FPS with vsync off (no use beyond benchmarking) and the uber-gamers who might be able to tell the difference of frame rates beyond 60fps, overclocking for gaming has little to no use.

So Ivy at stock clocks is very much viable for gamers who don't have a vsync-off FPS OCD.
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May 7, 2012 9:24:26 AM

Thank you jimmysmitty, exactly the info I was looking for (the combination of the two units).

Nice information filled post!
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a c 119 à CPUs
May 7, 2012 1:49:18 PM

jimmysmitty said:
You are forgetting many factors. For one, SB does about 20% better performance in some apps, most games is 5-10% that is per clock. Then there is overclocking. Most i7 920s would hit 4GHz, on very high end air cooling while most 2500/2600Ks will hit 4.4-4.5GHz on the same air cooling. Thats a 500MHz advantage which adds to overall performance. Then the lowe power usage helps as well.

It was worth moving to SB if you had a first gen i5/i7. It was not worth moving to Gulftown from Nehalem as it was a die shrink. Its not worth moving to IB if you have SB. Die shrinks are nice but overall not really worth moving to unless you have very old hardware like a Core 2 Quad.

As for the 50%, if Haswell pulls a SB it will. Remember it is a new arch, not a die shrink and therefore has more potential. Also, a new stepping will not increase performance. Most stepping improvements are TDP and erreta based. Sometimes it leads to better overclocks (Q6600 G0 or i7 920 D0) but not always. The main performance gains for Haswel will be in the arch changes and tweaks.



Sandy Bridge will probably start their EoL phase. That means Intel will start to ramp production down and then look to convert the FABs to 22n or whatever they deem necessary. I would say that by the end of this year we wont be able to get many Sandy Bridge CPUs. AMD stopped production of Phenom II and Athlon II end of year last year and the stock ran out very fast. Within a month we were not able to get any except the lowest end Athlon II X2s.

Of course Intel does have a much larger FAB base and is able to produce more than AMD but the supply will run out very fast.

m8 gulftown is nephelem i7 and xeon are exactly the same architecture just 2 more cores pretty much, as far as i know ... i didnt forget anything. i oc my cpu to exactly 20% thus my smaller numbers for the difference in percentages to the stock clock of the sb parts... really there isnt that much in them when you consider the SB is 20% faster in most things across the board but it runs at 15%+ faster clocks the 920 run in at 3.6 can easily keep up with a sb running at 3.4 thus my reasoning for saying its not worth it. if you have a first gen i5 or i7 quad
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May 7, 2012 11:34:09 PM

jimmysmitty said:
You realize that you can use both the IGP and a GPU at the same time with the Lucid Virtu? ANd the Lucid MVP uses the IGP as a sort of VSYNC frame buffer to help keep the FPS smooth.

So you can have the best of both worlds, use the IGP for quick sync and then your GUP as the main game power. I wish they had a way to use it like laptops do with the IGP for basic stuff anf the GPU for gaming. Would be a great power saver.

Never heard lf Lucid MVP, must be something new.

I don't use vsync at all.
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