Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Opinions - Dual layer double format dvd burners

Last response: in Digital Camera
Share
May 16, 2005 5:47:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way down
page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners. I realize
these are off-brands so that's probably why prices seem very low. I imagine
it won't be long the major brands start coming down, too, perhaps with
rebates.

Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner if
in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?

Any particular specs to look for when comparing models (besides a well-known
brand name)?

TIA

Renee
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 5:47:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Renee wrote:

> Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner if
> in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?

I just upgraded my old HP burner to a Plextor PX-716A burner that will
burn DL disks.

The DL disks are *expensive*, but I'm sure that will come down as DL
burners become more popular.

The reason I went with double layer is that the disks hold 8.5 Gigs.. It
means less disk swapping every Sunday when I back up my photo collection.

> Any particular specs to look for when comparing models (besides a well-known
> brand name)?

Seems they all do the same, but if they don't make sure you can burn and
read both DVD-R and DVD+R
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 6:09:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

rr@invalid.org (Renee) wrote in
news:Kv1ie.27083$w15.9750@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:

> http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way
> down page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners.
> I realize these are off-brands ...

What do you consider "off brands"? I see LG, Panasonic and NEC among
others.

DVD burners just aren't that expensive these days.

Double-layer media, on the other hand, is a different story.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com
Related resources
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 6:10:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Renee" <rr@invalid.org> wrote in message
news:Kv1ie.27083$w15.9750@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way down
> page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners. I realize
> these are off-brands so that's probably why prices seem very low. I
> imagine it won't be long the major brands start coming down, too, perhaps
> with rebates.
>
> Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner
> if in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?
>
> Any particular specs to look for when comparing models (besides a
> well-known brand name)?
>
> TIA
>
> Renee
>

LG Electronics (formerly Goldstar) is one of the major brands. They make a
lot of drives for well-known brand names like Dell, HP, etc.

Kerry
May 16, 2005 6:54:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Bert Hyman" <bert@iphouse.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96585D367F587VeebleFetzer@127.0.0.1...
> rr@invalid.org (Renee) wrote in
> news:Kv1ie.27083$w15.9750@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:
>
>> http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way
>> down page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners.
>> I realize these are off-brands ...
>
> What do you consider "off brands"? I see LG, Panasonic and NEC among
> others.
>
> DVD burners just aren't that expensive these days.
>
> Double-layer media, on the other hand, is a different story.
>
> --
> Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

It was LG that caught my eye with DL drives under $40. I had never heard of
LG and mistakenly thought it was an off-brand. I didn't look much past the
LG and MSI brands the first time around. Now that I take another look I see
that Sony is on there, too.

Single-layer media is reasonably priced so if that were an issue for
someone, they could use that with the burner until the price of DL media
comes down. If someone was concerned about the price at this point in time,
is there any reason why that should still keep them from purchasing the
drive? For example, has anyone heard of compatibility issues where SL discs
burned on a DL drive are a problem to read on another drive?
May 16, 2005 6:54:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Hi There" <gt4NOSPAMdatsun@h*o*t*m*a*i*l.com> wrote in message
news:kR1ie.1370698$8l.499487@pd7tw1no...
> "Renee" <rr@invalid.org> wrote in message
> news:Kv1ie.27083$w15.9750@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>> http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way down
>> page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners. I realize
>> these are off-brands so that's probably why prices seem very low. I
>> imagine it won't be long the major brands start coming down, too, perhaps
>> with rebates.
>>
>> Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner
>> if in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?
>>
>> Any particular specs to look for when comparing models (besides a
>> well-known brand name)?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Renee
>>
>
> LG Electronics (formerly Goldstar) is one of the major brands. They make a
> lot of drives for well-known brand names like Dell, HP, etc.
>
> Kerry
>
>

Thanks for that. I had no idea. I bought a pretty basic desktop from Dell
Business that only came with a CD reader, not writer. I have an external DVD
burner I use for both my laptop and desktop. It's worked out fine so far.
But with prices that low for a DL drive, I thought I might indulge myself
someday down the road.

Renee
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 6:58:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner if
> in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?

Don't!

Why?

www.cdrinfo.com and http://homepage2.nifty.com/yss/

Note: PI/PO error rate charts for each burner.

---

Basically, poor quality burners make DVDs with high PI/PO error
rates, which means they have more errors and will be trouble reading in
the future. Do you want to risk your photos to burners that make poorly
written discs with high error rates?

DON'T go buying a dirt-cheap burner for photo storage unless you
specifically pick a burner + DVD media combo that generates tested low
PI/PO error rates (and even then, I wouldn't trust it).

2nd tier and lower quality burners can give you good burns, but you
do have to pick the right media.

---

Anyways, otherwise, Pioneer 109 or Plextor 716a series. Later is
better since you can make your own PI/PO accurate scans at home and
comes with the software to do it. But both, generally, will burn to
quality media (eg. 16x Verbatim DVD+R discs, 2.4x DL Verbatim DL+R
discs, 8x or faster Maxell DVD+/-R discs) with super-low PI/PO error
rates and excellent readability, and generally very good performance
across a wide range of discs.

(example of horrible burners - just look at some of the LiteOn, etc.
burns! high PI/PO error rates that top 100 even on discs that the
Pioneer/Plextor can handle well; also, look esp. at the DL burns -
nothing out there tops the lowest PI/PO error rates I've seen coming off
my Pioneer 109 DL burner)

The other burners out there, eh, I've researched dozens for days
before buying both burners above and haven't come across anything else
yet that performs better, whether in online reviews or in Japanese
computer magazine tests comparing various burners.

(bought both since I like the faster 109 tray load/unload speeds,
but wanted the PI/PO scanning of the 716a - but both excellent burners
quality wise)

---

finally, videohelp.com -> dvd players for the compatiblity of your
player. You will want to pick the format (+ or -) depending on what
your player handles. (Otherwise, simply buy the excellent Philips
DVP642 DVD/DIVX/XVID/MPEG4/MPEG2/MPEG1/SVCD/VCD/CD/JPEG CD player for
<$70 at walmart.com stores which will handle everything you generally
toss at it.)

---

So, buy a Pioneer or Plextor, quality Verbatim or Maxell media, and
you'll be fine. Verbatim DL+R ONLY for dual layer burns - it's the only
media out there that burns with low PI/PO error rates and can be trusted
to last a few years out w/o disc rot or delamination. (also, don't flex
those DVD discs too much!!!!! Too much flexing can lead to glue layer
failure and disc delamination -- after all, they're all glued together
unlike CDs)
May 16, 2005 7:04:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Renee" <rr@invalid.org> wrote in message
news:Kv1ie.27083$w15.9750@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way down
> page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners. I realize
> these are off-brands so that's probably why prices seem very low. I
> imagine it won't be long the major brands start coming down, too, perhaps
> with rebates.
>
> Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner
> if in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?
>
> Any particular specs to look for when comparing models (besides a
> well-known brand name)?
>
> TIA
>
> Renee
>

Haven't got one, yet, but the LG models always seem to get good reviews and
the price looks good, and they do DVD-RAM if required. The cheapest models
shown aren't the laster models, there is now a 16x DVD GSA-4163BA which
sells in the UK for £44, so should be about $44 in the US.
May 16, 2005 7:04:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"dylan" <no@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:D 6a998$34k$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Renee" <rr@invalid.org> wrote in message
> news:Kv1ie.27083$w15.9750@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>> http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way down
>> page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners. I realize
>> these are off-brands so that's probably why prices seem very low. I
>> imagine it won't be long the major brands start coming down, too, perhaps
>> with rebates.
>>
>> Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner
>> if in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?
>>
>> Any particular specs to look for when comparing models (besides a
>> well-known brand name)?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Renee
>>
>
> Haven't got one, yet, but the LG models always seem to get good reviews
> and the price looks good, and they do DVD-RAM if required. The cheapest
> models shown aren't the laster models, there is now a 16x DVD GSA-4163BA
> which sells in the UK for £44, so should be about $44 in the US.
>

Thank you, that's good to know about the reviews since I hadn't checked.
About that DVD-RAM thing -- I don't know anyone personally who uses that. I
suppose it has its uses and advantages I'm not aware of.
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 8:17:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

rr@invalid.org (Renee) wrote in
news:fu2ie.22837$VH2.18779@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:

> For example, has anyone heard of compatibility issues where SL
> discs burned on a DL drive are a problem to read on another drive?

I've read of lots of other compatibility problems, but not that one
specifically. Media compatibility is a big topic among the folks who
do a lot of DVD burning. See http://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia for
more information than you would ever want :-)

Beware that many new stand-alone DVD players still won't play DVD+R
media.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com
May 16, 2005 8:41:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Alfred Molon" <alfredREMOVE_molon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1cf2cf75a9ac9aa998ab51@news.supernews.com...
> DL media are unbelievably expensive. Any idea when the prices will start
> to go down ?
>
> --
>
> Alfred Molon
> ------------------------------
> Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
> Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/

Yes they are expensive. A quick search on tigerdirect lists them at $5 to
$7.60 per disc! That just doesn't make much $ense for most people. It's like
what they do with printers -- sell them real cheap and get you on the
cartridges.
May 16, 2005 8:52:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Bert Hyman" <bert@iphouse.com> wrote in message
news:Xns965872D56E0B7VeebleFetzer@127.0.0.1...
> rr@invalid.org (Renee) wrote in
> news:fu2ie.22837$VH2.18779@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:
>
>> For example, has anyone heard of compatibility issues where SL
>> discs burned on a DL drive are a problem to read on another drive?
>
> I've read of lots of other compatibility problems, but not that one
> specifically. Media compatibility is a big topic among the folks who
> do a lot of DVD burning. See http://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia for
> more information than you would ever want :-)
>
> Beware that many new stand-alone DVD players still won't play DVD+R
> media.
>
> --
> Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com

Thanks for the link. I've bookmarked it for when I'm ready to do some
serious shopping.

My TV's DVD player will only play DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW discs. It seems
strange that many players won't take DVD+R.

It would be nice if the DL burner I get writes to all the formats I can use
in my TV's DVD player. PCMag highly rates a Memorex burner but it doesn't do
DVD-R. The burner I'm using now writes to all formats CD-R, CD-RW, DVD+/-R,
DVD+/-RW. Right now I mostly use DVD-R -- for more universal
compatibility -- and DVD+RW -- for superior performance. Though I could be
wrong about my reasons for doing that.

Renee
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 9:04:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

rr@invalid.org (Renee) wrote in
news:yd4ie.23079$VH2.13328@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:

> My TV's DVD player will only play DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW discs. It
> seems strange that many players won't take DVD+R.

My old Panasonic wouldn't play DVD+R, but my burner (Lite-On) came
with a utility to set the disk's "book type" to DVD-ROM, after which
it played just fine.

My new Sony player (NS50P) claims to be able to play just about every
format I've ever heard of; it cost $70.

My Lite-On burner does DVD+/-R, DVD+/-RW and DVD+R9 (dual layer); it
cost $49.

These things are ->cheap.

--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | bert@iphouse.com
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 9:13:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Renee wrote:

> "Alfred Molon" <alfredREMOVE_molon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1cf2cf75a9ac9aa998ab51@news.supernews.com...
>
>>DL media are unbelievably expensive. Any idea when the prices will start
>>to go down ?
>>
>>--
>>
>>Alfred Molon
>>------------------------------
>>Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
>>Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
>
>
> Yes they are expensive. A quick search on tigerdirect lists them at $5 to
> $7.60 per disc! That just doesn't make much $ense for most people. It's like
> what they do with printers -- sell them real cheap and get you on the
> cartridges.
>
>


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0520-0, 05/16/2005
Tested on: 5/16/2005 10:13:19 AM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 9:27:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:24:56 -0500, Jim Townsend <not@real.address>
wrote:

>The reason I went with double layer is that the disks hold 8.5 Gigs.. It
>means less disk swapping every Sunday when I back up my photo collection.

You currently do this onto 8.5Gig DL DVDR/W every week?

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 10:42:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Mon, 16 May 2005 13:47:22 GMT, in rec.photo.digital , "Renee"
<rr@invalid.org> in <Kv1ie.27083$w15.9750@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
wrote:

>http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way down
>page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners. I realize
>these are off-brands so that's probably why prices seem very low. I imagine
>it won't be long the major brands start coming down, too, perhaps with
>rebates.
>
>Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner if
>in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?
>
>Any particular specs to look for when comparing models (besides a well-known
>brand name)?
>
>TIA

Speaking of drives, does anyone know of a two bay external USB
enclosure? Or would that be too much heat?


--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 11:17:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Mon, 16 May 2005 18:42:38 GMT, in rec.photo.digital , Matt
Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> in
<naqh81hon8okusk4475fqrin0826ivv50b@4ax.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 May 2005 13:47:22 GMT, in rec.photo.digital , "Renee"
><rr@invalid.org> in <Kv1ie.27083$w15.9750@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>
>wrote:
>
>>http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way down
>>page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners. I realize
>>these are off-brands so that's probably why prices seem very low. I imagine
>>it won't be long the major brands start coming down, too, perhaps with
>>rebates.
>>
>>Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner if
>>in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?
>>
>>Any particular specs to look for when comparing models (besides a well-known
>>brand name)?
>>
>>TIA
>
>Speaking of drives, does anyone know of a two bay external USB
>enclosure? Or would that be too much heat?

Ok, found some: http://www.fwdepot.com/thestore/default.php


--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
May 16, 2005 11:33:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I would wait for blu-ray or HD-DVD to duke it out in the market.
I have been using a Sony dual layer model for seveal months: it is
worthless.
The cost of one dual layer disc is between 4 and 8 times the cost of single
layer media:hardly a cost-effective solution.
If you do not fill up both layers on one burn you are out of luck adding
anything to your ~$10 dual layer DVD recordable disc. There is also a
significant rate of failed burned dual layer discs.
If you succeed in making a disc there is no guarantee that read only DVD
drives in another computer will be able to read the data.
In reality even if you are "backing up" a commercial DVD video it is hit or
miss if your television DVD player will read the disc, even if it has read
previous discs made with the same drive in the same way. This gets very
expensive and generally it is cheaper to buy another copy of the DVD video.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 12:52:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Alfred Molon wrote:
> DL media are unbelievably expensive. Any idea when the prices will
start
> to go down ?
>
> --
>
> Alfred Molon
> ------------------------------
> Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
> Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/

I was in Fry's last Friday (5-13-05) and saw Maxell DVD +R double layer
for $129.95 for a spindle of 25. Less than $5.20 per disc. Do you
remember in '95 when CD blanks were $10 each? THAT was pricy.
Glenn Gundlach
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 1:23:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Mon, 16 May 2005 13:47:22 GMT, "Renee" <rr@invalid.org> wrote:

>http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way down
>page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners. I realize
>these are off-brands so that's probably why prices seem very low. I imagine
>it won't be long the major brands start coming down, too, perhaps with
>rebates.
>
>Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner if
>in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?
>
>Any particular specs to look for when comparing models (besides a well-known
>brand name)?
>
Go for the Pioneer.
May 17, 2005 3:04:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

--
Renee
"birdman" <apquilts@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:Yz6ie.429$kj7.270@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>I would wait for blu-ray or HD-DVD to duke it out in the market.
> I have been using a Sony dual layer model for seveal months: it is
> worthless.
> The cost of one dual layer disc is between 4 and 8 times the cost of
> single layer media:hardly a cost-effective solution.
> If you do not fill up both layers on one burn you are out of luck adding
> anything to your ~$10 dual layer DVD recordable disc. There is also a
> significant rate of failed burned dual layer discs.
> If you succeed in making a disc there is no guarantee that read only DVD
> drives in another computer will be able to read the data.
> In reality even if you are "backing up" a commercial DVD video it is hit
> or miss if your television DVD player will read the disc, even if it has
> read previous discs made with the same drive in the same way. This gets
> very expensive and generally it is cheaper to buy another copy of the DVD
> video.
>
>

Birdman, thanks for that. You've made me more aware of the problems you can
run into with these things.

Just wondering though -- my DVD writing software has two ways to save files:
one way writes the whole disc at one time and I can't add more files even
it's a RW disc, and the other way lets me continue to add files whenever I
want until it's finalized. Do you think another type of software would allow
you to add more files if you don't fill the disc on the first burn? It just
doesn't make sense that you have to save 8.5 gb of data in one session.
May 17, 2005 3:06:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

--
Renee
"David Chien" <chiendh@uci.edu> wrote in message
news:D 6b522$psn$1@news.service.uci.edu...
>> Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner
>> if in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?
>
> Don't!
>
> Why?
>
> www.cdrinfo.com and http://homepage2.nifty.com/yss/
>
> Note: PI/PO error rate charts for each burner.
>
> ---
>
> Basically, poor quality burners make DVDs with high PI/PO error rates,
> which means they have more errors and will be trouble reading in the
> future. Do you want to risk your photos to burners that make poorly
> written discs with high error rates?
>
> DON'T go buying a dirt-cheap burner for photo storage unless you
> specifically pick a burner + DVD media combo that generates tested low
> PI/PO error rates (and even then, I wouldn't trust it).
>
> 2nd tier and lower quality burners can give you good burns, but you do
> have to pick the right media.
>
> ---
>
> Anyways, otherwise, Pioneer 109 or Plextor 716a series. Later is
> better since you can make your own PI/PO accurate scans at home and comes
> with the software to do it. But both, generally, will burn to quality
> media (eg. 16x Verbatim DVD+R discs, 2.4x DL Verbatim DL+R discs, 8x or
> faster Maxell DVD+/-R discs) with super-low PI/PO error rates and
> excellent readability, and generally very good performance across a wide
> range of discs.
>
> (example of horrible burners - just look at some of the LiteOn, etc.
> burns! high PI/PO error rates that top 100 even on discs that the
> Pioneer/Plextor can handle well; also, look esp. at the DL burns - nothing
> out there tops the lowest PI/PO error rates I've seen coming off my
> Pioneer 109 DL burner)
>
> The other burners out there, eh, I've researched dozens for days before
> buying both burners above and haven't come across anything else yet that
> performs better, whether in online reviews or in Japanese computer
> magazine tests comparing various burners.
>
> (bought both since I like the faster 109 tray load/unload speeds, but
> wanted the PI/PO scanning of the 716a - but both excellent burners quality
> wise)
>
> ---
>
> finally, videohelp.com -> dvd players for the compatiblity of your
> player. You will want to pick the format (+ or -) depending on what your
> player handles. (Otherwise, simply buy the excellent Philips DVP642
> DVD/DIVX/XVID/MPEG4/MPEG2/MPEG1/SVCD/VCD/CD/JPEG CD player for <$70 at
> walmart.com stores which will handle everything you generally toss at it.)
>
> ---
>
> So, buy a Pioneer or Plextor, quality Verbatim or Maxell media, and
> you'll be fine. Verbatim DL+R ONLY for dual layer burns - it's the only
> media out there that burns with low PI/PO error rates and can be trusted
> to last a few years out w/o disc rot or delamination. (also, don't flex
> those DVD discs too much!!!!! Too much flexing can lead to glue layer
> failure and disc delamination -- after all, they're all glued together
> unlike CDs)

David, thank you for your excellent summary and advice. I bookmarked one of
the links you gave
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Home.aspx?Artic...
though the other I had trouble with -- it's in Japanese. :-o

Cdrinfo.com has a lot of information to wade through and the charts are hard
for me understand. So I really appreciate your analysis.

I'll be taking your advice if I make a DL drive purchase. Your message has
earned a special place in my Saved folder!
May 17, 2005 3:30:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

umm . . . Matt

I seem to be missing your point

:-o

--
Renee
"Matt Ion" <soundy@moltenimage.com> wrote in message
news:Uw4ie.1375430$6l.581690@pd7tw2no...
> Renee wrote:
>
>> "Alfred Molon" <alfredREMOVE_molon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1cf2cf75a9ac9aa998ab51@news.supernews.com...
>>
>>>DL media are unbelievably expensive. Any idea when the prices will start
>>>to go down ?
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>Alfred Molon
>>>------------------------------
>>>Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
>>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
>>>Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
>>
>>
>> Yes they are expensive. A quick search on tigerdirect lists them at $5 to
>> $7.60 per disc! That just doesn't make much $ense for most people. It's
>> like what they do with printers -- sell them real cheap and get you on
>> the cartridges.
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 0520-0, 05/16/2005
> Tested on: 5/16/2005 10:13:19 AM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 6:35:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Renee" <rr@invalid.org> writes:

> http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way down
> page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners. I realize
> these are off-brands so that's probably why prices seem very low. I imagine
> it won't be long the major brands start coming down, too, perhaps with
> rebates.
>
> Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner if
> in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?

The drop in recording rate is major. Given how dual layer works, it
seems to me it has to nearly halve the "safety margin" on your ability
to read back the data you recorded on the disk. Between those two, I
haven't been the slightest bit tempted.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 7:24:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Jim Townsend wrote:
> Renee wrote:
>
>
>>Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner if
>>in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?
>
>
> I just upgraded my old HP burner to a Plextor PX-716A burner that will
> burn DL disks.
>
> The DL disks are *expensive*, but I'm sure that will come down as DL
> burners become more popular.

The first ones I saw on the shelves were just over CDN$25 for a
three-pack... two months later they were down to $15 for the same
three-pack. They're not really worth the extra cost just yet, but it
shouldn't be long. With the relative cost of drives and media now, DVD
is already a good bit cheaper than CD as a storage medium.


---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0520-0, 05/16/2005
Tested on: 5/16/2005 8:24:41 PM
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 1:20:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

David Dyer-Bennet wrote:
> "Renee" <rr@invalid.org> writes:
>
>
>>http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way down
>>page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners. I realize
>>these are off-brands so that's probably why prices seem very low. I imagine
>>it won't be long the major brands start coming down, too, perhaps with
>>rebates.
>>
>>Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner if
>>in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?
>
>
> The drop in recording rate is major. Given how dual layer works, it
> seems to me it has to nearly halve the "safety margin" on your ability
> to read back the data you recorded on the disk. Between those two, I
> haven't been the slightest bit tempted.
Given the number of double layer DVDs I have had trouble with in just
playing movies, I am not either.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 3:48:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> I was in Fry's last Friday (5-13-05) and saw Maxell DVD +R double layer
> for $129.95 for a spindle of 25. Less than $5.20 per disc. Do you

and be CAREFUL as to who made the disc itself! (Use DVD Identifier,
CD Speed, Plextools, etc. to read the info off the disc, or see
www.videohelp.com -> DVD media)

If you don't get the Verbatim 2.4x DL+R discs (MKM001), then you may
just wind up with coasters or bad burns (ie high error rates) since the
other DL discs out don't burn as well in recent PI/PO tests across
various burners.

eg. http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=124752
You're looking to match or beat the Pioneer 109 here on the MKM001
disc - else, you're just wasting lots of money on an expensive DL disc
that doesn't burn so good.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 10:32:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <1116301955.539702.68260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
stratus46@yahoo.com says...

> I was in Fry's last Friday (5-13-05) and saw Maxell DVD +R double layer
> for $129.95 for a spindle of 25. Less than $5.20 per disc. Do you
> remember in '95 when CD blanks were $10 each? THAT was pricy.
> Glenn Gundlach

They cost 7 Euro (= USD 9) here in Germany (for one DVD-R).
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
May 17, 2005 11:31:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

--
Renee
"David Chien" <chiendh@uci.edu> wrote in message
news:D 6de2n$hbo$1@news.service.uci.edu...
>>
>> David, thank you for your excellent summary and advice. I bookmarked one
>> of the links you gave
>> http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Home.aspx?Artic...
>> though the other I had trouble with -- it's in Japanese. :-o
>
> translate with http://babelfish.altavista.com/
>

Still a bit cryptic with babelfish.

Sample translation:

"4 time fast entry area is bad, the sea urchin it is visible, but it meaning
that price is cheap the scope of supply, with it does to the thing which is
said."

:-)
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 1:53:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <fu2ie.22837$VH2.18779@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
rr@invalid.org says...
> It was LG that caught my eye with DL drives under $40. I had never heard of
> LG and mistakenly thought it was an off-brand. I didn't look much past the
> LG and MSI brands the first time around. Now that I take another look I see
> that Sony is on there, too.
>
I think all the Sony drives are made for them by Lite-on now.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 2:11:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

In article <d6deag$hmc$1@news.service.uci.edu>, David Chien says...

> If you don't get the Verbatim 2.4x DL+R discs (MKM001), then you may
> just wind up with coasters or bad burns (ie high error rates) since the
> other DL discs out don't burn as well in recent PI/PO tests across
> various burners.

Do you work for Verbatim ?
--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 4040, 5050, 5060, 7070, 8080, E300 forum at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
Olympus 8080 resource - http://myolympus.org/8080/
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 2:11:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

> Do you work for Verbatim ?

No. (be nice though! imagine - all the free DL discs you'd ever want!)

But if you simply examine the PI/PO DL scans at YSS & CDRInfo, you
can see that the general trend has been that the MKM001 2.4x DL+R
Verbatim discs burn better (ie. lower PI/PO errors) than other brands.
And, this disc burns the best in the Pionner burners (the best, IMO, in
the world - producing the lowest PI/PO errors on this DL media, esp. at
faster than 2.4x speeds such as 4x and 6x).

(they do have their latest 4x DL disc in Japan, the MKM 01RD30, which
burns very well in the tested Plextor, but we don't have it yet in the
USA....)

This information correlates with the tests made by various Japanese
computer magazines such as PC User, which finds that they tend to burn
the best across a wide range of DL burners, and better than other brands.

You can also see user scans in the www.cdfreaks.com forums ->
hardware -> plextor, pioneer, and other brands.

naturally, burners improve along with discs quickly, so what is true
today may be obsolete in a month or more.

---

PI/PO error scans are easy to understand in graph format. Basically,
the higher the values, the higher the number of errors on that area of
the disc. At a high enough point (depends on the particular reader
drive), you won't be able to read the information successfully due to
too many errors. Naturally, lower is better esp. knowing that discs to
degrade over time (discs always increase in error rate over time, never
decrease due to light, humidity, temp. and other environmental exposure
as well as physical damage due to flexing of the disc, dropping, etc).

Discs with low error rates (IMO, below 50 on the scan across the
disc, esp. if significantly lower than 25) will be a 'better' burn.

There are other factors such as variations among sample drives of the
same make, etc to keep in mind as well.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 3:49:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Renee" <rr@invalid.org> writes:

> http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way down
> page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners. I realize
> these are off-brands so that's probably why prices seem very low. I imagine
> it won't be long the major brands start coming down, too, perhaps with
> rebates.
>
> Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner if
> in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?

At roughly $6 per single media (at least at places like Staples, Microcenter,
etc.), it is too expensive to use for normal image backup. It is much cheaper
to use 2 single layer media at the current time. However, I imagine in 6
months, double layer media will be more available and cheaper.

I bought a DL writer recently, but that was because I needed to load SUSE 9.3
linux on my AMD 64 system, and it needed a DL disk.

> Any particular specs to look for when comparing models (besides a well-known
> brand name)?

--
Michael Meissner
email: mrmnews@the-meissners.org
http://www.the-meissners.org
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 11:57:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On 20 May 2005 23:49:50 -0400, Michael Meissner
<mrmnews@the-meissners.org> wrote:

>"Renee" <rr@invalid.org> writes:
>
>> http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=340&a=86444 -- about 1/3 way down
>> page starts listing some dual layer double format dvd burners. I realize
>> these are off-brands so that's probably why prices seem very low. I imagine
>> it won't be long the major brands start coming down, too, perhaps with
>> rebates.
>>
>> Anyone have opinions as to why or why not they might purchase a DL burner if
>> in the market for a new dvd burner for storing their photos?
>
>At roughly $6 per single media (at least at places like Staples, Microcenter,
>etc.), it is too expensive to use for normal image backup. It is much cheaper
>to use 2 single layer media at the current time. However, I imagine in 6
>months, double layer media will be more available and cheaper.
>
>I bought a DL writer recently, but that was because I needed to load SUSE 9.3
>linux on my AMD 64 system, and it needed a DL disk.
>
>> Any particular specs to look for when comparing models (besides a well-known
>> brand name)?


The NEC 3500 or 3502 is well reviewed and a great value. They are
around $60 online. I have one of each of theses and both burn dual
layer media without problems.
!