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Change of case so many problems?

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January 24, 2012 3:12:23 PM

Hello there tom's


Right so me and HostileDonut have been trying to fix the problem with my PC, the only thing i Have done is taken one computer and changed cases. Can't be to difficult right? Baring in mind before the change everything was working fine. So Fractal sent me a case to review and I was like simple job change cases. But on first boot there was not display so I immediately thought GPU error. So I plugged into the onboard graphics and it bought up called 'Boot Device' in this window it allowed me to select my boot devices from Primary to secondary. I was like simple HDD is obviously where I want to boot from. Problem solved? Nope. Not everytime I boot it asks me to define a boot device like it forgets which boot device I selected as default. (I will list specs just people then I will state the things I have done to try and fix it with some screenshots)

2600k Stock
Noctua NH D14
8 GB RAM
AsRock Extreme 3 Gen 3
GTX 460 Super clocked.
750 HX Corsair PSU.

Things I have done to try and rectify problem!

1.) Firstly I thought it might just be a loose connection so I replugged the SATA's into the board.
2.) Reset the CMOS
3.) Tried to take the Optical Drive out of the problem because for some reason it had this as main boot device, so removed it but it still prompted me to select boot device even thought there was only one thing to boot from.

Screen Shots of the problem.




I have never seen a Optical drive and a HDD needing driver updates in windows.

Does anybody have a scooby whats going on because I'm lost 100%

Cheers Cain.

More about : change case problems

a c 93 B Homebuilt system
January 24, 2012 3:25:50 PM

Quote:

I have never seen a Optical drive and a HDD needing driver updates in windows.

Does anybody have a scooby whats going on because I'm lost 100%


What's your storage solution? Are you using an SSD as your primary or is the mechanical HD your primary?

And what drives are plugged into what ports? The primary HD must always be plugged into SATA-0.
January 24, 2012 3:27:21 PM

g-unit1111 said:
Quote:

I have never seen a Optical drive and a HDD needing driver updates in windows.

Does anybody have a scooby whats going on because I'm lost 100%


What's your storage solution? Are you using an SSD as your primary or is the mechanical HD your primary?

And what drives are plugged into what ports? The primary HD must always be plugged into SATA-0.


Right I'm just using a 500GB Mechanical HDD. Nothing else but it wants to boot from Optical as default.
Related resources
a c 93 B Homebuilt system
January 24, 2012 3:28:51 PM

If your optical drive is plugged into SATA-0 that could be causing a huge conflict. Try plugging the mechanical drive into SATA-0 and take out the optical and see if it boots up from there.
January 24, 2012 3:31:06 PM

g-unit1111 said:
If your optical drive is plugged into SATA-0 that could be causing a huge conflict. Try plugging the mechanical drive into SATA-0 and take out the optical and see if it boots up from there.


Be right back then 3 min.

HDD in Sata_0
a c 93 B Homebuilt system
January 24, 2012 3:47:12 PM

majorgibly said:
Be right back then 3 min.

HDD in Sata_0


Yeah your primary boot always has to be in SATA-0 as by default your motherboard will look for the active OS installed on the drive plugged into this port. Then go into the BIOS and set the boot order as:

1. HDD
2. CD-ROM
3. USB
4. Network
January 24, 2012 3:49:58 PM

g-unit1111 said:
Yeah your primary boot always has to be in SATA-0 as by default your motherboard will look for the active OS installed on the drive plugged into this port. Then go into the BIOS and set the boot order as:

1. HDD
2. CD-ROM
3. USB
4. Network


Right this time just had the HDD in nothing else and in SATA port _0



Does it matter what SATA cable I use?
a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 24, 2012 3:51:40 PM

Sounds like you might have hit your parts with some ESD when you were moving them between the cases.

Things don't just quit working in a new case, normally.

Sounds like something catastrophic happened during the change over process to me.
January 24, 2012 3:54:05 PM

Raiddinn said:
Sounds like you might have hit your parts with some ESD when you were moving them between the cases.

Things don't just quit working in a new case, normally.

Sounds like something catastrophic happened during the change over process to me.


That really makes me feel good lol. I wore a Wristband and shoes and touched case every 3 - 5 min!
January 24, 2012 4:02:34 PM

Anybody else think of anything else or are you all claiming it was 100% my fault. I did everything by the book. Not like I have never built PC before. Everything else in windows is stable.
a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 24, 2012 4:25:29 PM

Put it back in the old case and see if the problem remains.
January 24, 2012 4:28:58 PM

Raiddinn said:
Put it back in the old case and see if the problem remains.


What would changing the case do exactly.
a b B Homebuilt system
January 24, 2012 4:39:19 PM

Identify/rule out it being the case thats an issue,
you know it worked in the old case before, it should still do now,
Moto
January 24, 2012 4:42:51 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
Identify/rule out it being the case thats an issue,
you know it worked in the old case before, it should still do now,
Moto


Well I mean it does work, hence me speaking to you, if it's 100% stable in windows then how could it be ESD?
a b B Homebuilt system
January 24, 2012 4:49:45 PM

I was only answering the **What would changing the case do exactly** question, not the original query :) 
Only thing I can recommend, and I know this sucks to hear,
And I'm sorry to say this to you both as I know your not dumb but,
Sections three and four,
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/288241-13-read-post...

go over things again, rule out any possible inconsistency or omission,
like sherlock holmes says,
when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
so rule out everything you can as a cause,
Moto
January 24, 2012 5:01:49 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
I was only answering the **What would changing the case do exactly** question, not the original query :) 
Only thing I can recommend, and I know this sucks to hear,
And I'm sorry to say this to you both as I know your not dumb but,
Sections three and four,
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/288241-13-read-post...

go over things again, rule out any possible inconsistency or omission,
like sherlock holmes says,
when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
so rule out everything you can as a cause,
Moto


Only thing that I have not done is the HDD LED mine don't come on nor do power lights but that does not really bother me. I doubt that could make the PC not remember which drive to boot from. But im confused why it would even do that on each boot. That's the hard bit. Could you explain why it would need me to define a boot device when only one bootable device is connected.
January 24, 2012 5:35:59 PM

is there anything else, and more advice or shall I take it to a PC store lol not done that in about 9 years. always get ripped off. Or do I RMA the board?
a b B Homebuilt system
January 24, 2012 5:46:14 PM

I don't see any need to rma, the board works in the old system,
Cmos battery maybe dead, or possibly the bios chip has been zapped, I'm curious myself now hehe
Moto
a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 24, 2012 5:57:23 PM

I have a data drive that is much worse than your drive. Windows won't even recognize it unless I first boot into Ubuntu even though its a regular Fat32 drive. It gives me errors every single time I start the PC. I set it in the BIOS that I don't have to hit F1 every time in order to boot the PC.

That being said, it worked fine as a data drive for 2 years. It has started to give me error messages lately, but before that everything was peachy once I got past the huge amounts of errors that kept being thrown at me and random seeming functionality.

Could be you hard drive has also reached such a halfway state like my data drive.

In any event, what I took from the original post was that you changed cases and you started getting all kinds of errors. I didn't think they were case related, so I asked you to put them back in the case they were originally in and see if the errors were still there.

ESD can cause weird errors, potentially. It might not be so simple as pass/fail.
January 24, 2012 6:17:39 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
I don't see any need to rma, the board works in the old system,
Cmos battery maybe dead, or possibly the bios chip has been zapped, I'm curious myself now hehe
Moto


Well take a load of this, there is no CMOS battery...Not even a holder for it. In the manual it speaks nothing of a Battery... When did this start happening! and I'm doing know if it's a problem or not. I'm so confused I don't know what the problem is, it seems that the BIOS can't remember data which is inputed. I have a genius solution to this problem, we set a parameter in the bios boot into windows then restart and see if the value is still entered. If this is the case then we can rule out the battery being the problem correct?
January 24, 2012 6:24:23 PM

Raiddinn said:
I have a data drive that is much worse than your drive. Windows won't even recognize it unless I first boot into Ubuntu even though its a regular Fat32 drive. It gives me errors every single time I start the PC. I set it in the BIOS that I don't have to hit F1 every time in order to boot the PC.

That being said, it worked fine as a data drive for 2 years. It has started to give me error messages lately, but before that everything was peachy once I got past the huge amounts of errors that kept being thrown at me and random seeming functionality.

Could be you hard drive has also reached such a halfway state like my data drive.

In any event, what I took from the original post was that you changed cases and you started getting all kinds of errors. I didn't think they were case related, so I asked you to put them back in the case they were originally in and see if the errors were still there.

ESD can cause weird errors, potentially. It might not be so simple as pass/fail.


I highly doubt the case is the issue here, it was a simple change. ESD I'm slightly skeptical about. I was grounded the majority of the way though the change. The room was warm I'm in England so static is something rarer in wet winter. But I can't work this out, is it an error? I don't know what to do. I have an old hard drive which I used to use about which on it says 2007 so I take it it's rather old but it's SATA so might give that a go. But might cause more problems than it's solving. Don't want to take it to a shop because they will insult my intelligence of computers and make me seem small and worthless (besides It says I have a counterfeit version of windows because I ordered it off ebay and not going to pay for it again...I'm sure they will somehow point the finger to that.)
January 24, 2012 6:27:25 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
I see a Cmos battery right under the pcie slot,
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=Z68%20Extre...
Moto


Right it must be hiding away under the GPU. Could the GPU be the cause because it does not show the BIOS screen which is slightly weird. I have it plugged in but not connected to a screen. I doubt that could be causing issues. This even though is my PC is interesting and even though my money is being burnt, I'm close to RMA'ing this board and pointing the blame I just want to use my PC without having to change the GPU everytime I want to go on the PC. *crys*
a b B Homebuilt system
January 24, 2012 6:48:44 PM

You have the Gfx card plugged in, but not connected to a monitor?
if you can use onboard gfx to run checks then do so, breadboard 101.
The battery is a simple remove and replace job, bout once every two years should be all thats needed, you don't need to remove it everytime you want to use the pc :) 
Work in a minute, I'll check back though in the morning
Moto
January 24, 2012 7:07:53 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
You have the Gfx card plugged in, but not connected to a monitor?
if you can use onboard gfx to run checks then do so, breadboard 101.
The battery is a simple remove and replace job, bout once every two years should be all thats needed, you don't need to remove it everytime you want to use the pc :) 
Work in a minute, I'll check back though in the morning
Moto


Sorry I must not of made myself clear in the previous post. The problem was first noticed when I put the system in a new case, I plugged the monitors into the GTX 460 but nothing showed on this display, so I took display out of GTX and put it into the integrated GPU then something came onto the display. Which for some reason or another the GTX 460 does not like displaying BIOS screens no idea why. So I'm having to use the integrated GPU in order to see the boot screen. So in order to actually play games I would need to take the display out of the integrated GPU and boot into the GTX which is going to be annoying, this is where I'm at. The board is 4 days old. Surely the battery does not go in for days lol.
January 24, 2012 7:15:12 PM

Maybe this could help. Another weird and wonderful problem lol

January 24, 2012 7:30:55 PM

This is weird... maybe there's some sort of short? Are all the standoffs in under the motherboard...? Gee idk what to add...

Did you install your Case drivers? LOL :(  j/k...

I would just.. put it in the old case to see what happens...
January 24, 2012 8:04:55 PM

digitalzom-b said:
This is weird... maybe there's some sort of short? Are all the standoffs in under the motherboard...? Gee idk what to add...

Did you install your Case drivers? LOL :(  j/k...

I would just.. put it in the old case to see what happens...


Thats all very well if the system does not work at all whereas mine does. It is 100% stable in windows but I have to chose where to boot from each time more of an annoyance that I should not have!
January 24, 2012 9:12:44 PM

Change it back to the other case. You need to make sure that is not the issue. I have heard of people hardware just not booting in a different case before. It is rare, but happens. I would re-seat the GPU, RAM, HDD, and unplug and then plug back in EVERYTHING. Make sure that your HDD and optical drives are plugged into the same SATA ports as they were before. That was an issue for me. My HDD and optical were somehow 'tied' to certain ports after I used them. :/ 

I am not really sure, I would take out and put back in the CMOS battery though. It is worth a shot.
January 24, 2012 10:18:54 PM

digitalzom-b said:
This is weird... maybe there's some sort of short? Are all the standoffs in under the motherboard...?

That's what I was thinking.
a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 25, 2012 12:28:29 AM

Sounds like the cords aren't plugged into the hard drive right. Maybe one of them broke somehow during the change over. Perhaps a different SATA cable might help.

Switching cases would still be nice too just to rule things out.
January 25, 2012 6:03:17 AM

Raiddinn said:
Sounds like the cords aren't plugged into the hard drive right. Maybe one of them broke somehow during the change over. Perhaps a different SATA cable might help.

Switching cases would still be nice too just to rule things out.


I will change the SATA Cables when I get back, donut I will reply later, late for work D: I will update you in a while.

Check back soon for more mysteries with giby lol!
January 25, 2012 5:12:26 PM

HostileDonut said:
Change it back to the other case. You need to make sure that is not the issue. I have heard of people hardware just not booting in a different case before. It is rare, but happens. I would re-seat the GPU, RAM, HDD, and unplug and then plug back in EVERYTHING. Make sure that your HDD and optical drives are plugged into the same SATA ports as they were before. That was an issue for me. My HDD and optical were somehow 'tied' to certain ports after I used them. :/ 

I am not really sure, I would take out and put back in the CMOS battery though. It is worth a shot.


Sorry for the long reply been busy most of the day. Right I will take the GPU out because it's not doing anything because I want to fix the BIOS problem before I move onto the GPU problem. So I will take out the GPU from the equation. I can't remember where I put the SATA cables from the HDD. I thought a CMOS would clear the record of where each sata cable went but still having same problem. Even when only one device could be booted from it still asked me to choose a boot device even though only one was available.
January 25, 2012 5:23:44 PM

Motopsychojdn said:
You have the Gfx card plugged in, but not connected to a monitor?
if you can use onboard gfx to run checks then do so, breadboard 101.
The battery is a simple remove and replace job, bout once every two years should be all thats needed, you don't need to remove it everytime you want to use the pc :) 
Work in a minute, I'll check back though in the morning
Moto

Do you have any ideas? Hell you came up with a quote. You got anymore to lighten the mood lol.
January 25, 2012 5:23:50 PM

majorgibly said:
Sorry for the long reply been busy most of the day. Right I will take the GPU out because it's not doing anything because I want to fix the BIOS problem before I move onto the GPU problem. So I will take out the GPU from the equation. I can't remember where I put the SATA cables from the HDD. I thought a CMOS would clear the record of where each sata cable went but still having same problem. Even when only one device could be booted from it still asked me to choose a boot device even though only one was available.

I guess just try different SATA ports and if you can't find it, clear CMOS again and plug them in somewhere.
January 25, 2012 5:27:24 PM

HostileDonut said:
I guess just try different SATA ports and if you can't find it, clear CMOS again and plug them in somewhere.


Geez why is this happening to me lol I just want to experience my PC without needing to define boot device each time. If this fails then...RMA it I reckon... Right another question is it okay to constantly reboot PC while changing SATA ports? I don't want to make another problem or shall I go into windows and shut down each time?
January 25, 2012 5:29:22 PM

majorgibly said:
Geez why is this happening to me lol I just want to experience my PC without needing to define boot device each time. If this fails then...RMA it I reckon... Right another question is it okay to constantly reboot PC while changing SATA ports? I don't want to make another problem or shall I go into windows and shut down each time?

You mean keep the computer on and change ports?! HECK NO! You change the ports when the machine is powered off.
January 25, 2012 5:30:51 PM

HostileDonut said:
You mean keep the computer on and change ports?! HECK NO! You change the ports when the machine is powered off.


No no no no. I mean could I just power off the PC if I see the boot menu come up by pressing the power switch or do I need to load windows. I'm not that silly to keep the PC on lol.
January 25, 2012 5:33:00 PM

Your machine should be okay if you power it off, but many power cycles can hurt a machine. I would let it boot at least most of the times.
January 25, 2012 5:34:33 PM

HostileDonut said:
Your machine should be okay if you power it off, but many power cycles can hurt a machine. I would let it boot at least most of the times.


Right to be safe I will boot into windows and let programs load up for about 30 second before powering down just to be safe sound good?
January 25, 2012 5:38:13 PM

majorgibly said:
Right to be safe I will boot into windows and let programs load up for about 30 second before powering down just to be safe sound good?

Sounds great to me as long as you have the patience! :) 
January 25, 2012 5:39:30 PM

HostileDonut said:
Sounds great to me as long as you have the patience! :) 


Right here we go... I really hope this fixes it otherwise it will go lemon! Right check back soon buddy.
a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 25, 2012 5:59:49 PM

Did you put it back in the other case yet?

Also, I suggest you physically take all the SATA cables out of the computer except the one that goes between the hard drive and SATA0. All the way out and just sit them on the floor or something. Just to avoid any confusion about which cable is connecting to which thing.
January 25, 2012 6:01:38 PM

HostileDonut said:
Sounds great to me as long as you have the patience! :) 


Nope same problem... I sorted the cables out so at least I got my little blue light when I power on :p  I still got the GPU in there for some unknown reason I will cook tea and remove the GPU see if that stops the problem. if that fails it has to be the board surely. I will also try CMOS again. I must of done something wrong somewhere. I don't know what though. ESD was suggested but I made sure I was close to the PSU and touching it about 2 - 3 minutes!

Think of anything else lol? What SATA ports are you using? let me match those.
January 25, 2012 6:04:59 PM

Raiddinn said:
Did you put it back in the other case yet?

Also, I suggest you physically take all the SATA cables out of the computer except the one that goes between the hard drive and SATA0. All the way out and just sit them on the floor or something. Just to avoid any confusion about which cable is connecting to which thing.


I have physically removed them because I thought they may of been dead swapped them around also with some new ones same problem I only have HDD > SATA_0 and it still asks me to define a boot device even though it's the only one connected. Let's say it was ESD what would be damaged? surely if it's 100% windows stable then it's not ESD. How about a BIOS update however I have never done this before and I have heard horror stories that BIOS can be wiped and therefore PC wont boot D:

Brb
a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 25, 2012 6:08:43 PM

It would be better for you to at least try the things suggested before you declare the board is failing. Just sayin.

Sounds to me like the problem is too simple to figure out.
a c 78 B Homebuilt system
January 25, 2012 6:12:43 PM

Lets go all the way back to straight up breadboarding.

Motherboard sitting on a wooden table. CPU in, RAM in, PSU connected twice to the motherboard. Hard drive connected to the power and to SATA0 and try to turn it on by laying something metal across the 2 pins on the motherboard called PWR_BTN in the manual.

If that still says no boot device, then change the power connector and SATA cables around in some different combinations.
January 25, 2012 6:44:22 PM

Raiddinn said:
Lets go all the way back to straight up breadboarding.

Motherboard sitting on a wooden table. CPU in, RAM in, PSU connected twice to the motherboard. Hard drive connected to the power and to SATA0 and try to turn it on by laying something metal across the 2 pins on the motherboard called PWR_BTN in the manual.

If that still says no boot device, then change the power connector and SATA cables around in some different combinations.


My mobo has a power and reset button on it, can I use that? My motherboard is ATX however it has a different motherboard standoff layout on 7 stand offs and some are in ATX and other MATX so maybe I have a standoff in the wrong place but would that not cause whole PC not to start?
January 25, 2012 7:03:06 PM

majorgibly said:
Nope same problem... I sorted the cables out so at least I got my little blue light when I power on :p  I still got the GPU in there for some unknown reason I will cook tea and remove the GPU see if that stops the problem. if that fails it has to be the board surely. I will also try CMOS again. I must of done something wrong somewhere. I don't know what though. ESD was suggested but I made sure I was close to the PSU and touching it about 2 - 3 minutes!

Think of anything else lol? What SATA ports are you using? let me match those.

I am using the top grey SATA III Port for my HDD and the top black on at the bottom end of the SATA II ports.
January 25, 2012 7:24:35 PM

HostileDonut said:
I am using the top grey SATA III Port for my HDD and the top black on at the bottom end of the SATA II ports.


I thought the HDD should be plugged into SATA_0 is that same with your correct?
!