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560 TI 448 Cuda - Weirdest/most confusing Nvidia launch???

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November 27, 2011 3:20:21 AM

As another one of the swarm (suckers?) waiting eagerly for the 448 core 560 TI to come out, I've got to wonder; how many people are ALSO waiting for this architecture to come out and how long until we actually see cards for the architecture? Is just the base architecture being unveiled on the 29th and THEN the companies will come in with their aftermarket coolers and overclocking tweaks or will they (ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, Zotac, etc.) just dump their stock of 560 TI 448 cores on the market that same day? It seems like it would be suicidal for them from a company perspective, if they wanted any of this potential market at all, and assuming there are a LOT of people waiting for these freaking cards to come out, NOT to release them on the 29th because that is when everyone will be searching for them and what we have all been led to believe will happen.

This is such a weird product launch, who is with me on this? The cards are essentially going to be marketed as the SAME as 560 TIs on the surface but are going to be completely different cards underneath the hoods (or so we have been led to believe). I mean how much better is it to have the G110 Silicon as opposed to the G114 Silicon on the older 560 TIs and down in the 500 series? What price point should we expect, ESPECIALLY if these cards come with just 1GB of VRAM? What will it do to the prices of NORMAL 560 TIs at, let's say, above $235-245? How are those cards going to be able to compete with a new price structure? And for god's sakes what about the 570 prices???? From the tech specs one can infer, though the one inferring in this case is a complete n00b for lack of a better term, that the 560 ti 448 CUDA is going to be at WORST 90% as powerful as a reference 570. I MEAN THIS IS MADNESS!!!!! SPARRRRTTAAAA GRAAAAAAAAAAAAA I AM GOING CRAZY OVER THIS STUPID FREAKING CARD ANNOUNCEMENT!!!!!
November 27, 2011 3:24:24 AM

Adding further confusion to the already neigh-unintelligible specifics of what this card will actually be like on launch (and further making me believe these cards are going to be super-duper 1GB versions of the 560 TI....at $25-50 more....): http://www.vortez.net/news_story/geforce_gtx_560ti_with...
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a b U Graphics card
November 27, 2011 3:51:19 AM

Huh, this is the first I've heard of it. It sounds like they have some extra 570 cores hanging around and want to make some money off them. Not too many people buy video cards over $300, so its quite a niche market. Plus you've got the new Radeons coming fairly soon and nVidia may not be ready quite yet.

Anyway it doesn't seem too confusing to me, but pricing will be key as you mentioned.
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November 27, 2011 4:01:55 AM

Yeah, it isn't confusing, per se, but the price structure is keeping people totally in the dark right now and I just want to know why they are doing that...If people knew what the prices would be for these cards before hand, wouldn't you think, if they were priced appropriately, that people would WANT to go with Nvidia more? ahhh, but, then again, not if they feel like they got screwed out of money because these 448 cores actually drop the price on the current 560 TIs or the 570 reference models....


Incidentally, is your avatar/pic of a dragon age character? I just watched a lot of really, REALLY bad Dragon Age sex scenes/dialogue on the youtubez just now. Game devs and actors are either in on the joke or just make really freaking awkward recordings ad representations of actual sex. Not so surprised our youth act so weird, we have to get taught how to bone through weirdos like alistair and leiliana.
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a c 173 U Graphics card
November 27, 2011 4:18:31 AM

Pricing could/should change. If you try to squeeze this into current prices then you'll have all kinds of problems. If however you drop the GTX560 prices down to make room for this card then there will be room for it. Nvidia prepping for AMDs product launch?
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a b U Graphics card
November 27, 2011 4:46:55 AM

gameranew22 said:
Yeah, it isn't confusing, per se, but the price structure is keeping people totally in the dark right now and I just want to know why they are doing that...If people knew what the prices would be for these cards before hand, wouldn't you think, if they were priced appropriately, that people would WANT to go with Nvidia more? ahhh, but, then again, not if they feel like they got screwed out of money because these 448 cores actually drop the price on the current 560 TIs or the 570 reference models....


Incidentally, is your avatar/pic of a dragon age character? I just watched a lot of really, REALLY bad Dragon Age sex scenes/dialogue on the youtubez just now. Game devs and actors are either in on the joke or just make really freaking awkward recordings ad representations of actual sex. Not so surprised our youth act so weird, we have to get taught how to bone through weirdos like alistair and leiliana.


Me? Yes, Canthalis is my Dragon Age avatar which I created with the avatar creator. It mostly looks like me, well 25 years ago when I was trim and just outta boot camp!!

haha. Yeah, looks like me-sorta.
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November 27, 2011 5:23:45 AM

yes , this Card is Kind of what I wanted ..except aparantly it will have the 1.25GB of VRAM like the 570's ..but I wanted one with 2GB ..but I wanted the 320 bit ..I honestly dont know what to think of this card yet..and yeah wondering how it will stack up in the line up.. was hoping to see next gen cards BEFORE BF3, MW3, SWTOR, or even Mass Effect 3 ..but looks like that aint gonna happen, I am still hanging onto 8800GTS in SLi , but want to upgrade for BF3 and SWTOR ..now am wating to see just WTF this card is gonna be
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a c 173 U Graphics card
November 27, 2011 5:29:53 AM

AMD is supposed to start launching cards next month. From the rumors however they aren't exactly new. (basically renamed 6xxx cards based on leaks.) High end new cards probably won't be here until H1/2012.
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November 27, 2011 6:00:34 AM

gahhh. if this doesn't end up lowering prices on at least something and giving me back a positive price/performance ratio, I will be disappointed because I waited through every black november deal for these frickers and now the ATI cards on newegg aren't bundled with anything except crappy $20 rebates....and a closet full of regret (jk). I have over $200 in store credit with newegg right now so I'm essentially stuck going through them as well.
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a c 173 U Graphics card
November 27, 2011 6:02:35 AM

Just wait. Cyber Monday is in a couple of days. Something is bound to go on sale.
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November 27, 2011 6:21:17 AM

ahhh, you've made me feel good again. Thank you, good sir. Well, here's hoping we can all get a slice of the proverbial cheap/powerful/CORE-TASTIC action when it comes time... Night beezies.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
November 27, 2011 11:18:29 AM

I'm unsure why you think the new GTX 560 Ti is something to get excited about. This card is something akin to the AMD/ATI cards HD5830 and HD6790; a cut down gimped version of a powerful chip sold to increase usable yields. It likely wont be all that much faster than the current GTX 560 Ti but it will probably be larger, definitely use more power and possibly be more expensive from what I'm reading. The stats on this card are identical to the old GTX 470, but with an OC. Its ability to OC will likely be low in comparison to the current card as the clock are already equivalent to the GTX 570s while the current 560 Ti can OC a ton. Even if they are the same price I think I would prefer the current model.
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a c 173 U Graphics card
November 27, 2011 1:07:35 PM

It will use more power which is what I think will hold it back. Assuming we get it because of die harvesting, it won't cost Nvidia anything really to make it.
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November 27, 2011 2:16:25 PM

Yeah, jy, that's more point I think. I'm waiting to see if the new 560 TI lowers old 560 TI prices. If it does, I think that's a no-brainer then to go get those cards because they have a proven track record, are cheap, and powerful.
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November 27, 2011 4:17:31 PM

Somebody in California already got their hands on a FTW edition of the 448 when a frys electronics put it on the shelf early. Cost was 295 dollars. So yes, the superclocked versions are already out and if you guess with the 295 as a goalpost, id say a base card will go for 265 to 275 IMHO. Id also like to point out that it OCed pretty good. A stock speed of 797 on the FTW, he was able to push it to 868. Thats a pretty decent overclock on top of a already healthy overclock.

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1340289
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November 27, 2011 4:46:08 PM

wow. Holy crap that is a pretty hefty OC. His 3d Mark11 score DESTROYED the EVGA 560 TI SOC... http://www.techreaction.net/2011/03/24/review-evga-gefo...

Wow, this card is dope as Definitely picking this up if it's at the right price range. Wowsers. I hope newegg dumps this off on cyber monday...or they are going to get rid of the rest of their cards then and unleash this hte next day. Tricky, tricky, tricky marketing indeed.
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a c 88 U Graphics card
November 27, 2011 4:54:06 PM

They definately arent reference cards , already seen pics of the Asus and Zotac models and they come with after market coolers and overclocked. this card is gonna be awesome , imagine the 3 way SLI performance on it.
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November 27, 2011 5:03:15 PM

but on a serious note; yes. Yes, so freaking hard to your comment. These cards might actually exceed my expectations, so far so good. As of right now, 2 days before official launch, I'm glad I waited to get a GPU for my rig. I haven't seen the power consumption statistics yet on these puppies though, or maybe I wasn't paying attention and have skimmed over that critical detail. I've got an XFX 650w, wondering if I will be able to SLI these puppies on that without upgrading/short-circuiting them.
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a b U Graphics card
November 27, 2011 9:09:34 PM

Just pay the extra 30 dollars for a GTX 570 and be done with it. The only reason I speculate this release is to shut out the HD 6950
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November 27, 2011 9:33:36 PM

*shrug* gotta have a budget limit somewhere. Mine is right at the 300 dollar mark. I think id feel more secure getting either a High end 560TI, mid-high end 560TI 448 vs squeaking in a possible low-budget version of the 570. P

As you can see with my avatar....well..i got 16 grand in car repairs to do lol...hence the video card budget lol.
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a b U Graphics card
November 27, 2011 9:38:10 PM

Hah, true. It will be good for those on a super strict budget. It will most certainly be the best price to performance ratio if it can come down even a little more, say 20-50 dollars.
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a c 195 U Graphics card
November 28, 2011 1:16:53 AM

Warmacblu said:
...It will be good for those on a super strict budget...

:lol:  lol... :lol:  rofl... :lol:  lmao... Damn, there goes my left buttock. :pfff:  Those on a super strict budget, assuming they can afford PC parts at all, would probably be absolutely thrilled with a HD6670.
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a b U Graphics card
November 28, 2011 3:37:14 AM

Onus said:
:lol:  lol... :lol:  rofl... :lol:  lmao... Damn, there goes my left buttock. :pfff:  Those on a super strict budget, assuming they can afford PC parts at all, would probably be absolutely thrilled with a HD6670.


By super strict I meant cannot afford any leeway with their 300 dollar budget; not super strict as in a low amount of money to spend.
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November 28, 2011 10:44:55 AM

lol agree warmacblu, pc building is typically not for Sudanese refugee's. GT
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a c 145 U Graphics card
November 28, 2011 11:13:44 AM

Warmacblu said:
Just pay the extra 30 dollars for a GTX 570 and be done with it.


if only nvidia did not laser cut the disabled shader core you can get GTX570 BIOS and flashed the card into GTX570 just like GTX465. :p 

Warmacblu said:
The only reason I speculate this release is to shut out the HD 6950


i don't think so. the original GTX560 Ti already competitive enough for 6950. for games that favoring nvidia architecture GTX560 Ti will pull ahead of 6950. to me they just want to sell GF110 chip that can't make it into GTX580 or GTX570. other reason would be nvidia might want to stop GF114 production so they directly replacing GTX560 Ti (GF114) with GTX560 Ti 448 Core (GF110)
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November 29, 2011 12:48:04 AM

There is nothing mysterious to the marketing hax going on here. Right now they have a price gap between $220 (560 ti) and $330 (570). They need something to fill the middle ground there other than a 2GB 560 ti.

I will wait to see how the 448 core overclocks. If it is not much then I think I would rather have a 1gb 560ti at 1k mhz and add another later at lower wattage than a 448 core sli. cheers
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November 29, 2011 10:46:34 AM

"Reference GTX 560 Ti 448s have a stock core clock of 732 MHz and a memory clock of 950 MHz, the MSI came overclocked to 750 MHz core and 975 MHz memory. In the end we have the core at 945 MHz and the memory at 1130 MHz, both are remarkable gains of ~29% and ~19% over reference speeds!" -overclockers review

well I guess they get pretty close to 1k clock also...still can't find them in stores.

Realllly still hard to justify the $70 price difference thou. $250 would be an easy choice, but with older 560 ti's at less than $200 on some brands its really a no brainer. The 448 core seems to be selling for $290-300

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November 29, 2011 2:31:55 PM

i cant find it for sale anywhere right now =/
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a c 145 U Graphics card
November 29, 2011 2:45:11 PM

Sunfighterlc said:
i cant find it for sale anywhere right now =/


of course you can't. this thing is limited edition. suggested MSRP is around $289 but retailers can jack up the price because of it's limited nature :p 
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November 29, 2011 2:47:21 PM

Well hell! I figured Newegg could get a hold of some Mars 2 cards surely they can grab a few of these as well. Im not even going to try local here lol. I live in Arkansas, they are still adapting to the telephone.
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a b U Graphics card
November 29, 2011 2:56:47 PM

This card won't be cheap.

Not with these premises:

- Short lived "special" chip
- Limited quantity

You all know this thing will blow it's MSRP once it hit the shelves. Even more with the hint that it can perform better than a 570 stock when you tweak it.

Cheers!
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November 29, 2011 3:01:51 PM

Thats what im afraid of. Anything above 305 and ill be like FU!!...and either get a 560ti or wait a week and get a 570.
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a b U Graphics card
November 29, 2011 3:36:31 PM

Just beats a 6950 but is $50 more expensive.



I didn't check the full review but I'd guess it will lose with AA enabled.

We can sum this one up as "not as good as the 6950", which has basically been the story for the past year.
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a c 609 U Graphics card
November 29, 2011 3:58:16 PM

I guess it depends on which review you are reading.





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November 29, 2011 4:00:58 PM

Im sure we can throw charts everywhere, I think its going to depend on the maker of the card and such considering there is no reference. It just adds to the confusion more.
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a b U Graphics card
November 29, 2011 4:11:03 PM

Oh god here's matto back with more cherry picked benchmarks using overclocked Nvidia cards.

Look - here's the exact same overclocked card in the same review just beating the 6950 by 5%.



Amazing huh.
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November 29, 2011 6:16:07 PM

Why can I only find this card on Amazon? why isnt newegg or tigerdirect listing them? I HATE amazon lol. 289.99 for the FTW edition...meh...kinda high for only a 20mhz overclock base.

Not worth it IMHO. You can get the 900mhz 560ti EVGAs on newegg for 219 or so with free shipping. The only + can think is the extra Vram...is that really worth 80 bucks?
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a b U Graphics card
November 29, 2011 6:19:17 PM

Definitely not worth 80 dollars for the VRAM. If this card can come down in price just a little bit then it would definitely be worth a purchase, but at its current MSRP I do not see it being worth it.
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November 29, 2011 6:24:03 PM

Vram does concern me a bit though. I game at 1900x1200. 1080p. 1GB of Vram is passing today, but I can see it getting a bit problematic in a year or two. I always skip a generation between video card buys. My last card was a 1GB GTX 280. Im very nervous about 1GB not being enough to handle a generation gap. then again, 1250GB isnt that much more either lol....ah...decisions...only 12 448s left on amazon
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a b U Graphics card
November 29, 2011 6:44:16 PM

Surely you should just have bought the 570 gtx a month ago when they were below $300? They were actually good value then, now they are worse value than the 6970 again.

I get the feeling this 560 Ti 448 was released just so Nvidia could increase prices on the 570. Regardless, anything above the 6950 is actually quite awful price/performance still. Look at that toms chart I linked earlier...4-5% is not worth $80 more.
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November 29, 2011 6:51:56 PM

I was forced into buying cause my GTX 280 crapped out on me a week ago. And stupid me forgot to register it with EVGA a year and a half ago. Otherwise I was content with my old GTX 280 FTW still, I havent really been playing much anything that was stressing it too much. I haven't dealt with ATI since the Rage Fury days.
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a b U Graphics card
November 29, 2011 7:10:30 PM

Oh that's bad luck. Well it's your choice but for me everything is a very hard sell apart from the 6950. I know what you mean about the VRAM, 1GB might not quite cut it in a couple of years.
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a b U Graphics card
November 29, 2011 7:20:03 PM

Take a look at this review:

http://www.behardware.com/articles/844-1/geforce-gtx-58...

As you can see the VRAM makes very very little difference even at those super super high resolutions. Metro 2033 and Shogun do show improvements but it's unplayable because there isn't enough processing power, not because VRAM is limited.

Now in the future, games may require more VRAM but if you have a fast enough modern system with 8 or more GB then the games can just pull from that without slowing you down too much.
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November 29, 2011 7:55:00 PM

Thats a good article, but I dont think it has relevance here mostly because its dealing with 1.5 to 3GB. 1.5GB is plenty enough for any single monitor and then some. 3 is just overkill.

But what we are talking about is 1GB which i think is getting to be pretty borderline these days. Especially on the high-mid range cards like the 560TI

Think of it has like ram today. 4GB-- Good enough, but starting to show its age. 8GB-- Plenty 16GB-- overkill.

Well for Vram right now i see it as 1GB-- Good enough, but starting to show its age 1.5-2GB-- Plenty 3GB+ -- overkill

At least in my opinion. That article just compares plenty vs overkill..so of course they will come to the conclusion that "plenty" is enough.
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a b U Graphics card
November 29, 2011 7:57:20 PM

The GTX 560 Ti 448 has 1.25GB of VRAM which I believe is plenty. I think the card runs out of processing power before reaching the VRAM limit in most games, leaving out BF3.
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November 29, 2011 8:01:28 PM

Good luck finding one. There were a couple on amazon. But i HATE amazon.

Id prefer newegg. Tigerdirect if possible too..but thats a far second to me. Newegg treats me well, even given me credits on things cause i complained they showed up a few days late.

Problem is, Newegg doesnt seem to be listing any 448s...not sure why. They havent all day. and there is NO WAY in hell im gonna pay $311 for an MSI 448 on amazon...no friggin way..at that price id just buy a freaking 570.
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a b U Graphics card
November 29, 2011 8:55:01 PM

I don't see the prices on the GTX 560 Ti 448's coming down at all. They will sell them for the highest price possible and people will buy them until they run out. Keep in mind that there are always people out there who don't care about the best price to performance ratio, they just want the best, and the GTX 560 Ti 448 is the best GTX 560 you can purchase.
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November 29, 2011 9:16:02 PM

I just wanna know why Newegg ISNT selling them yet. I might just buy from EVGA though Id hate that. Takes weeks to get anything from them. Newegg generally ships out of memphis for me, so any shipping is overnight.

Also note that they only seem to be selling the factory overclocked versions, though maybe there wont ever be a reference 732mhz one. Still, i was never a huge fan of the factory overclock ones...they generally have a premium on price for no real reason other than a warrenty the card will work at the specs given, and even then its not certain it wont artifact like crazy.
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a b U Graphics card
November 29, 2011 9:19:38 PM

Sunfighterlc said:
I just wanna know why Newegg ISNT selling them yet. I might just buy from EVGA though Id hate that. Takes weeks to get anything from them. Newegg generally ships out of memphis for me, so any shipping is overnight.


Just save up for a few more days and purchase a GTX 570.
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November 29, 2011 9:27:40 PM

Yuka said:
This card won't be cheap.

Not with these premises:

- Short lived "special" chip
- Limited quantity

You all know this thing will blow it's MSRP once it hit the shelves. Even more with the hint that it can perform better than a 570 stock when you tweak it.

Cheers!


what i learned from this is:

this card will not be cheap because it is rare.

what i knew going into this thread having read the op's OG post:

this card is rare.

for your excellence in the area of dissemination of ur knowledge of advanced principles of economics you are awarded winner of the week.

cheers
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