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UPS Vs PSU

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  • Power Supplies
  • Fan
  • Components
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May 10, 2012 2:58:26 PM

Hi

Just got a new seasonic s11 520 watt PSU ...and using 600va(360 watt) ups from past
so can I use 600va ups with 520 watt PSU
My PC is not high end either normal quadrofx540 gpu with core2duo processor and 2 gb ddr2 ram


another thing just want to know as I was checking if my PSU is working or not I gave it power for hour
but its fan is not running so is it dead? or these high end PSU's fan don't run like this
(I used local PSU yet and their fan runs all the time)

More about : ups psu

a b ) Power supply
May 10, 2012 3:47:35 PM

That exact PSU has a fan that doesn't kick in until you draw a certain amount of power. I'm guessing with your system you don't even reach that point so the fan won't kick in.

I had a seasonic PSU that the fan didn't kick in until I started gaming out.

Your good.
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a b ) Power supply
May 10, 2012 4:09:39 PM

Ups rating (360 W) is not tied to PSU rating (520 Watts.
What is important is that your system (at the wall) draws less than 360 Watts. ignore the VA Rating - It is only important if the PF is Reactive, Most newer "Good" PSU use a PFC circuit to make the PSU appear as a resistive load.

You did not List Your system Components, primarily CPU, & GPU as these two are the primary Heavy loads.
For Ex. My i5-2500K (OC = 4.2 GHz), w/ AMD 6870, 16 Gigs of ram, 4 drives:
Idle = Around 100 W -> 125 W
Load (Running furmark to stress GPU and +12V PSU Rail) = 350 Watts at the Wall.

Added for thoughs interested:
If a load is resistive the PF = 1 and Max Voltage and max current are at the same time. Therfore True Power is E x I.
When a Load is reactive then max Voltage and max Current do NOT occur at the same time. If You multiply Max Curenet and max Voltage you will get a Higher Number (Called Apparent Power) and to Find TRUE power you would Multiply this times the PF (<1).
NOTE: extreme Eample if Voltage and Current were 90 degress out of Phase, Apparent Power could be a Very large Number, but TRUE power would = ZERO And would Cost you Zero Dollars.
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a c 1218 ) Power supply
May 10, 2012 4:23:45 PM

If you're having a problem with the UPS switching over to battery operation with your Seasonic S12II-520Bronze check the type of UPS you are using.

From X-bit labs review of the Seasonic S12 series: S12-II Bronze SS-430GB and SS-520GB models tested on a simulated sine wave UPS:

Quote:
Compatibility with UPSes

Oddly enough, these very similar PSUs behave differently in this test: the S12-II 420 worked with my APC SmartUPS SC 620 at loads up to 350 watts but I could not make the S12-II 520 stable as it would shut down even at a load of 300 watts when the UPS switched to its batteries.

I didn’t examine the circuit design of these PSUs closely, so I cannot tell you the reason for this discrepancy. It may be due to a difference in some component ratings or in the implementation of the active PFC devices in these two models.
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a b ) Power supply
May 10, 2012 4:25:49 PM

if u have Active PSU u might wanna try to get sine wave UPS, since modified square wave or adaptive sine wave could create a delay at psu, making the ups useless....

easyest way to find the ups capacity for psu is just read the psu booklet, some psu had it writen in there.....

if not, u can roughly calc : psu wattage x 1.5 = ........ VA
............ VA - 20% = ......... Watt

(it not a accurate one, u may get the closest upper one)

VA is not the same as Watt.
imagine in rechargeable batries. VA is the capacity the watt is the voltage

edit : no mater how big your VA is, as long as the watt is below the psu requied it not gonna give good result (your ups life spand will drop drasticaliy, and in 100% psu load your ups simply cannot handle it)
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a b ) Power supply
May 10, 2012 4:33:58 PM

ko888 said:
If you're having a problem with the UPS switching over to battery operation with your Seasonic S12II-520Bronze check the type of UPS you are using.

From X-bit labs review of the Seasonic S12 series: S12-II Bronze SS-430GB and SS-520GB models tested on a simulated sine wave UPS:

Quote:
Compatibility with UPSes

Oddly enough, these very similar PSUs behave differently in this test: the S12-II 420 worked with my APC SmartUPS SC 620 at loads up to 350 watts but I could not make the S12-II 520 stable as it would shut down even at a load of 300 watts when the UPS switched to its batteries.

I didn’t examine the circuit design of these PSUs closely, so I cannot tell you the reason for this discrepancy. It may be due to a difference in some component ratings or in the implementation of the active PFC devices in these two models.


APC PSU requied pure sine wave UPS, (sine wave UPS is expensive but u will need it). the other wave will not work well.....

Edit : if u have Pasive PSU, square wave or adaptive/simulated sine wave UPS is good enough as long as the wattage is above the psu requirement. the VA just give u how much time before it's turn off.
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a b ) Power supply
May 10, 2012 5:05:42 PM

rdc85 "the VA just give u how much time before it's turn off" - NOT TRUE.
Operating time is dependent on true power, not apparant power, and Battery capacity.

VA rating determine max voltage and Currents for a REACTIVE load. Normally the ACV is fixed, what ever power company supplies. It is the current that generally varies and is dependent on load.

I'll Use RMS voltages and currents (to get peak values just multiply RMS x Sq root of 2 or 1.414).

For 120 VAC and 600 VA the max current that can be drawn is 600 / 120 = 5 Amps -- PF = .6 (0.6 = the cosine of the Phase difference between Voltage and current)
For a resitive load the max current is only 3 Amps (360 /120)
NOTE the drain on the Battery WOULD BE the same

Watts and VA would BE the SAME value with a PF of 1, VA is for reactive loads and is Very important for say - A capacitive start AC Motor, or for Compressors.
You said "imagine in rechargeable batries. VA is the capacity the watt is the voltage" - NO Relationship.

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May 10, 2012 5:14:59 PM

very very great description by you guys, as I am just a end user so getting very deep knowledge
Let me tell you full configuration
My ram gives 533 MHz(2 GB DDR2), CPU = Core 2 duo E 6300 1.86 GHz
Gpu NVIDIA QUADRO FX 540(I don't know how much power it takes but its entry level)
17"LG LCD Monitor
one 160 GB HDD,one 500 GB HDD, ONE DVD WRITER




UPS is ..APC 600VA, in good condition it gives 15-20 min backup (local PSU is of 400 watt)
and if I remember good APC executive told me that my PC is taking load of 230 volt


I asked in APC care , he said ups is 360 watt and it will be overloaded and 1 kva will be good for you

APC is double in price here and all local well known brands claims for good backup in half of APC price
I am also frustrated with APC as I got 30 unit and 2 batteries replacements, in 18 months
so it made me confuse for choosing APC or not. APC ppl also just telling because of quality and service we are giving it costly
But you know every brand will say same.

Hmm main aim of my discussion was that as my PC is of very low configuration and it won't take too much power from PSU and PSU supplies only required power, But does PSU keep using power of its own wattage (in my case 520 watt) or it takes power from wall or UPS according to PC components requirement.
And when it comes for backup then how much load it will give to ups( according to pc config or own power of PSU)

Hope I could explain good :sleep: 
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a b ) Power supply
May 10, 2012 5:36:54 PM

If system draws 230 Watts, then a 360 Watt would work, the run time on battery would be short. If You went to a 450 Watt, then your run time on battery would be longer.

Two things:
... if 230 Watts is for your computer, don't forget that you have to add whatever else is plugged in, ie Monitor, ect.
... Also. The closer you are to the rated value the deeper the battery is discharged and there fore the battery will "die" sooner.

IGNORE the VA ratiings, use watts.

As both of the other two posters have indicated, Some of the Newer PSUs do NOT like UPS's with losy waveform outputs and the PSUs can be damaged. In this sense the "Quality" of the Output is just as important as the "Wattage rating. What I try to do is pick a wattage = to 2 x my normal power consumption.
In your case if Computer = 230 Watts and Monitor was say 75 Watts then 2 x (230 +75) = 610 Watts would be great, but anything above 450 would be OK.
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May 10, 2012 5:51:07 PM

RetiredChief said:
If system draws 230 Watts, then a 360 Watt would work, the run time on battery would be short. If You went to a 450 Watt, then your run time on battery would be longer.

Two things:
... if 230 Watts is for your computer, don't forget that you have to add whatever else is plugged in, ie Monitor, ect.
... Also. The closer you are to the rated value the deeper the battery is discharged and there fore the battery will "die" sooner.

IGNORE the VA ratiings, use watts.

As both of the other two posters have indicated, Some of the Newer PSUs do NOT like UPS's with losy waveform outputs and the PSUs can be damaged. In this sense the "Quality" of the Output is just as important as the "Wattage rating. What I try to do is pick a wattage = to 2 x my normal power consumption.
In your case if Computer = 230 Watts and Monitor was say 75 Watts then 2 x (230 +75) = 610 Watts would be great, but anything above 450 would be OK.


Thanks
I guess I must confirm or you can guess with my described configuration
as my ups is of 350 watt so I may be wrong to remember

It may possible he said that ups can give 25 min backup on 230 watt and your PC is not taking even that much wattage

thanks
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a b ) Power supply
May 10, 2012 6:34:31 PM

My guess 5-> 8 Min run time. If you are at the computer when power goes off that is plenty of time to do an orderly shut down. If Unattened, then you should use an UPS that will auto shut down system when Battery drops below a certain Percentage of remaing time.
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a b ) Power supply
May 11, 2012 1:13:23 AM

Nope psu do not using 100% of capacity all the time. So if the blackout is happening when u just surfing/watch movie/typing (not heavy stuff) low wattage cpu can do that just fine. as the chief said seems your system draw is covered by your ups....

U have already own the ups so it might not be a problem to not get deeper info...
but to other random viewer i will have to say it's will be better to understand about VA, Wattage, and Waveform before chosing an ups (don't end up regreting blowing 1200va UPS like me)..
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May 12, 2012 1:02:08 PM

thanks guys for your precious time
I am using my 350 watt ups with 520 watt PSU and its giving around 12 min backup
without problem( checked once only)
also some local guys told me that only Monitor asks for too much load on UPS

thanks
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May 19, 2012 1:05:06 AM

Best answer selected by vish22.
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