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New Build with a twist

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January 29, 2012 6:57:26 PM

Greetings
I need to build a new computer but with a slight twist. I can't run anything newer than Win XP. I will use this computer to run engraver and plotter/cutter. The software (very expensive) will not run on anything newer. I need at least 2 RS-232 outs and that is about it. Sound not important. Any suggestions as to MOBO and processor (ATX) Has to play nice with Win XP.

Thanks
Pat

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January 29, 2012 7:31:16 PM

You should be able to add the data connectors as pci or PCI-e expansion cards , or USB cables/hubs
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...

But XP is getting old now
Assuming its 32 bit XP then a build like this makes sense

Athlon X3 [ or X4 ] processor
AM3 motherboard
2 x2 gig of DDR3

It will help if you slipstream Service pack 3 on to a new disk

http://lifehacker.com/386526/slipstream-service-pack-3-...
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January 30, 2012 2:59:52 PM

Thanks for the reply. The software that I have uses a serial dongle so I'm not sure how it would handle USB or PCI. Guess I could try it and see. So--an AM3 board and processor with 2 gig of DDR3. Any suggestion as to board make?
Thanks
Pat
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January 30, 2012 3:04:49 PM

How taxing on the CPU is the sowtware?
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January 30, 2012 3:31:29 PM

Not too taxing, I think. It would be like using Corel or Illistrator.
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January 30, 2012 3:40:54 PM

Corel is pretty taxing. What about an Intel i3-2100 based build?
You'll need 16GB of RAM for programs like that and maybe an SSD.
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January 30, 2012 3:44:27 PM

Doesn't windows xp use i think maybe 3 gig of ram? and only can utilize i believe a max of 4 gig? I'm not 100% sure i know 32 windows xp is that way and i'm unsure about 64 (does windows xp have 64?)
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January 30, 2012 3:54:37 PM

What bit XP are you using? Please tell me ur using 64-bit because if not you can only use 4gigs.
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January 30, 2012 3:55:57 PM

For the past 5 years I've been using my current build, now going bad quickly, which is ASUS P4PE, 2 GIG mem, 1 Seagate 500 gig HD, ATI ALL-IN-WONDER PRO Graphics card - 256 MB. This build has worked great but now the system keeps shutting down after running for a few min. Tried everytihng except new processor and MoBo.
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January 30, 2012 4:01:09 PM

Basic build:
i3-2100
4GB 1600 RAM
SATA 3 6GBps HDD
550W 80PLUS Bronze or higher PSU
AMD RADEON HD 6770 or higher.
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January 30, 2012 4:06:19 PM

XP wont have drivers for an i3 2100 , and even trying to slipstream them could be an troublesome .
You are best to stick with hardware XP service packs have already addressed , and if its 32 bit windows its worth installing a 2 x 2 gig kit of RAM even though the OS will only see around 3.3 gig of it .

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January 30, 2012 4:09:29 PM

then maybe an older gen i3/i5?
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January 30, 2012 4:22:39 PM

I know my athlon x2 4400+ plays very nice with xp not sure about the athlon II x2 or not http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/guided... that ones pretty cheap right now and i'm guessing just a step up from my athlon x2 if you can't get something like that to work you may have to go with a new os of windows 7 (about 100.00 on newegg) or go to a used cpu as i doubt there are many old new cpus to be honest and i'd reccomend getting a new os over an old cpu.
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January 30, 2012 4:40:23 PM

I suggested Athlon because its the oldest cpu architecture still current .

But you could look at the release date of Win XP service pack 3 and choose from any processor that predates that time .

You may find very little is available . We see people wanting to upgrade intel socket 775 computers regularly and its not only unwise its usually impossible since there are no good motherboards available
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January 30, 2012 5:09:38 PM

Wow--U guys are a welth of info and I really appreciate it. I really hate the thought of buying a used P4PE or P4800 off of Ebay. How do I find what processors might be compatible with XP SP3?
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January 30, 2012 5:23:01 PM

On April 8, 2014, all support for Windows XP, including security updates and hotfixes, will be terminated.[2] Users will still be able to download old updates and hotfixes from Windows Update. Microsoft recommends that users upgrade to Windows 7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP

So within the next 2 years they are going to force a new windows on you like it or not >_< i still use and like xp myself so its a shame In my new build i'm planning to do i was planning on getting windows 7 any way. And windows 8 is about to be released soon and then i'llbe stuck on an older version of windows again >_< does it ever stop i wonder?
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January 30, 2012 7:19:21 PM

I run Win 7 on my latest build but like I said, the software that I use will not run on 7. The software cost me $3200 when I purchased it 8 years ago. I really have to figure out a way to continue to use this product.

Thanks Guys.
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January 30, 2012 7:25:51 PM

I tried responding earlier but my post did not make it >_< AMD Athlon 64, AMD Opteron, Intel Xeon with Intel EM64T support, Intel Pentium 4 with Intel EM64T Those are all supported by the 64 version of windows xp professional and i would venture to guess you would have no problems if you bought one of those cpus to use with windows xp worth a shot to keep your os.
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January 30, 2012 7:37:08 PM

Thanks zolton33, that's great info that I can use going forward.
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January 30, 2012 7:54:35 PM

zolton33 said:
On April 8, 2014, all support for Windows XP, including security updates and hotfixes, will be terminated.[2] Users will still be able to download old updates and hotfixes from Windows Update. Microsoft recommends that users upgrade to Windows 7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP

So within the next 2 years they are going to force a new windows on you like it or not >_< i still use and like xp myself so its a shame In my new build i'm planning to do i was planning on getting windows 7 any way. And windows 8 is about to be released soon and then i'llbe stuck on an older version of windows again >_< does it ever stop i wonder?


Stopping support means they are no longer patching it , not that you are forced to change

I still have a machine running Win Me that I use to run a DOS program . Windows still crashes just as often as it always did , but it works for what its needed for .

Interestingly when the internet was awash with the first generation of worms that did so much damage globally that pc was completely immune . Only win 2000 and XP were vulnerable .
The lesson can be that no one is writing viruses or other malware targeting older OS'es so Microsoft support isnt that important
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January 30, 2012 7:54:38 PM

No problem.
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January 30, 2012 7:57:25 PM

Outlander_04 said:
Stopping support means they are no longer patching it , not that you are forced to change

I still have a machine running Win Me that I use to run a DOS program . Windows still crashes just as often as it always did , but it works for what its needed for .

Interestingly when the internet was awash with the first generation of worms that did so much damage globally that pc was completely immune . Only win 200 and XP were vulnerable .
The lesson can be that no one is writing viruses or other malware targeting older OS'es so Microsoft support isnt that important


Rofl is that not funny but true when they stop supporting the os it becomes safer >_< so exactly why do they charge so much for support that makes us more vulnerable? I guess its one of those questions that can never truely be answered fully.
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January 30, 2012 8:02:20 PM

Its just the shift of technology with time .

I wouldnt use that Win Me system on a network and I dont use it online . I think it would get eaten alive if I did !
But for the single specific purpose it is useful to me .

I think the OP's build may be similar .
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January 30, 2012 8:10:09 PM

And with microsoft changing their oem tos for windows 7 i'm worried about buying it. If i would have a system problem and need to replace my hard drive then i'd need a whole new oem version. >_< So a person would be better off buying the new full version as it could get costly to build your own pc now without it. I've had my system for over 6 years now and i've replaced my hard drive at least 4 times inthat 6 years. Going by the new oem license agreement that would be over 400.00 for oem alone. Linux is looking better and better to me >_<
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January 30, 2012 8:20:17 PM

I'm not 100% sure if this would work for you, so it would be best to confirm before going ahead, but you may be able to run your software from XP running in a virtual box on Windows 7 or something. That way you could buy a modern computer (more bang for your buck) and still be able to run your software.
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January 30, 2012 8:59:37 PM

Sevenus, yea--I thought the same thing when I built my current system. I tried loading the software and selected it to run in "compatability mode" but I think that due to the fact that it (the software) first goes and looks for the serial dongle it refused to completly load :-(

I too have a laptop running ME that I use just to send cut jobs to my plotter and it is still running strong.
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January 30, 2012 9:06:23 PM

I probably should start a new thread for this but let me through it out. My current system(s) 1)ASUS P4Pe running P4/2.53/512/533 2) ASUS P4p800 running P4/3.2/512/800.

Both do the exact same thing. They shut down, like someone pulled the plug from the wall, without warnning. Nothing in the System log or App logs, Replaced HD's, Mem, PS. Cleaned everything like new. The only thing left is processor or board---Right???
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January 30, 2012 10:05:54 PM

zolton33 said:
And with microsoft changing their oem tos for windows 7 i'm worried about buying it. If i would have a system problem and need to replace my hard drive then i'd need a whole new oem version. >_< So a person would be better off buying the new full version as it could get costly to build your own pc now without it. I've had my system for over 6 years now and i've replaced my hard drive at least 4 times inthat 6 years. Going by the new oem license agreement that would be over 400.00 for oem alone. Linux is looking better and better to me >_<


Ihavent read the TOS [ or even part of them ] for Win7 but I seem to recall you get 3 installs? Maybe someone can confirm that .

What I do like about XP is that even if it totally wipes out you can do a repair install replacing all the system files with new working copies from your disk . You lose no data and dont have to reinstall any programs
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January 30, 2012 10:22:34 PM

Outlander_04 said:
Ihavent read the TOS [ or even part of them ] for Win7 but I seem to recall you get 3 installs? Maybe someone can confirm that .

What I do like about XP is that even if it totally wipes out you can do a repair install replacing all the system files with new working copies from your disk . You lose no data and dont have to reinstall any programs

They changed it so the tos is now anti do it yourself. You could with windows xp replace your hard drive motherboards and cpu and upgrade them and such without any problems reactivating windows. Now here is the kicker it is now tied to your processor. Yeah you can upgrade your hard drive and other components. But not your cpu and if you replace your motherboard you must replace with the same make and model as before. It is now considered a new pc as such you would have to buy a whole new oem if you did not buy the full version to start with.

http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicensing/p...

The 3 installs are a promotion thing they did for families.
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January 30, 2012 10:25:38 PM

trophyman30 said:
I probably should start a new thread for this but let me through it out. My current system(s) 1)ASUS P4Pe running P4/2.53/512/533 2) ASUS P4p800 running P4/3.2/512/800.

Both do the exact same thing. They shut down, like someone pulled the plug from the wall, without warnning. Nothing in the System log or App logs, Replaced HD's, Mem, PS. Cleaned everything like new. The only thing left is processor or board---Right???

Have you monitored the heat from the processors in both? It sounds like the cpu was over heating then shut down to protect itself.
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January 30, 2012 10:36:15 PM

zolton33 said:
They changed it so the tos is now anti do it yourself. You could with windows xp replace your hard drive motherboards and cpu and upgrade them and such without any problems reactivating windows. Now here is the kicker it is now tied to your processor. Yeah you can upgrade your hard drive and other components. But not your cpu and if you replace your motherboard you must replace with the same make and model as before. It is now considered a new pc as such you would have to buy a whole new oem if you did not buy the full version to start with.

http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicensing/p...

The 3 installs are a promotion thing they did for families.


Interesting link , Thanks

"Can a PC with an OEM Windows operating system have its motherboard upgraded and keep the same license? What if it was replaced because it was defective?

A. Generally, an end user can upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on a computer—except the motherboard—and still retain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created. Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred to the new computer, and the license of new operating system software is required. If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do not need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC as long as the replacement motherboard is the same make/model or the same manufacturer's replacement/equivalent, as defined by the manufacturer's warranty."
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February 10, 2012 4:27:28 PM

Best answer selected by trophyman30.
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February 24, 2012 2:27:14 AM

hi trophyman, i used to work for a sign company and i know exactly what a plotter and a security dongle is and what a headache they can be. i spent years babysitting and forcing our computers to stay ancient and never change, to avoid having to re-purchase the very expensive software used to run a plotter.

if i understand this correctly, you have two nearly identical computers that are doing the same shut-off thing? does it happen at the same time or each does it on its own? did this just start or been happening for awhile? do you get any other error messages or is it simply just random shut downs for no apparent reason?

you have a lot of good replies here and info on your inevitable rebuild scenario. i left the sign business years ago and never had to attempt to make a modern machine work with that old software and dongles. however, i might suggest checking out your environment also. is your trophy engraving set up in a shop-type of environment? i used to battle constantly with dust, debris, overspray, etc. as well as heat control. it might sound simple and old-fashioned but random shutdowns, in my humble experience, have usually been an overheating problem. do you have a utility tool to monitor the temperature of your processor? consider also the wiring in a commercial building, especially an older one, may not be perfect. i used a battery backup as a buffer between the wall socket and the computer. is the video on-board or can you replace video cards? a crapped card might cause shut downs like that.

i'm no certified computer expert, but in a lifetime of home computers and work computers and swapping parts and figuring out how to keep the suckers running, my nemesis has always been heat and my best weapons a bottle of rubbing alcohol and an army of small, strategically placed fans. give it a try, a last ditch effort before taking on that rebuild.
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