Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Wanted a 3570K but having second thuoughts and thinking about a 2500K

Last response: in CPUs
Share
May 13, 2012 10:10:50 PM

I decided on a msi z77a-gd65 for my motherboard for my upgrade from a 955BE to an Intel core processor.I think now is a decent time to upgrade even though im not struggling with anything currently i have a feeling i soon would be with my cpu, so i was seriously considering the 3570k but i am worried about the heat. I have a hyper 212+ but will be getting a hyper 212 evo for the very slight increase in performance(and easier tim application), but also so i can sell the 212+ with my 955BE.

Either way, the 3570k or the 2500k i will be going with this motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
I really like its features and sharp looks, i would be pairing it with the corsair vengance low profile blue as well (8gb 1600 mhz). My budget for upgrading is 450 and includes ram, cpu, mobo, and cooler.(190 for cpu at micro center, 180 for motherboard at ncix, 52 for ram at ncix, and 30 for the cooler on amazon(have gift cards there))

Anyway if i get the 2500K i would go for the highest stable overlclock i possibly could, most likely 4.8-5.0ghz, but if i go with the 3570K i would just want to be at 4.4-4.5ghz. With either processor i feel like i would be set for the next 3-4 years and not have to worry about changing my cpu. My concern however is that i have a radeon 7850 and will most likely crossfire in about a year or two and so i sort of want the pci3 support. So will the heat on ivy be a killer? should i jump on ivy or stick to a 2500k?
a c 185 à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 13, 2012 10:45:06 PM

Go with the 3570k then, you most likely will switch to custom watercooling in the next 2 years.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 13, 2012 11:26:24 PM

I would avoid crossfiring and avoid water cooling and for that matter avoid trying to max your processor OC. It is cool for about as long as it takes for you to say you did it.

There isn't much that can strain a stock 3570k nor a PCIE 2.0 port for that matter.

I would do a small OC on the processor if it makes you feel awesome to do so (like 4.0) and if you feel like you need more graphics performance then just ebay the 7850 and buy 1x of a 680 or whatever is the latest and greatest.

The heat on the Ivy Bridge chips does suck, but it isn't through some flaw in the processor that is just how it is when there is a heat producing thing every 22 nanometers across the chip. Sandy Bridge makes the same heat it is just spread out over a larger physical space which makes it seem like less.

The 2500k is great, but they are already obsolete and being phased out for a reason. Vendors are selling their existing inventory of 2000 series chips and Intel is giving them 3000 series chips to fill back up the shelves with. You might as well be right there with everybody else.
m
0
l
a c 283 à CPUs
a c 137 V Motherboard
May 13, 2012 11:29:21 PM

Quote:
The 2500k is great, but they are already obsolete


LOL, I'm quite sure "obsolete" is too strong of a word...
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
May 13, 2012 11:33:40 PM

Obsolete? My i7-920 is obsolete?! My god. Tell me which program(s) bring my venerable 4 year old system to its knees before you say an i5-2500k is obsolete...

A 3570k is more of a sidegrade than a major upgrade to a 2500k.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 13, 2012 11:39:27 PM

I guess it depends on how you look at it.

If something isn't being manufactured now and won't be manufactured ever again because something newer and better has been designed and put into production, that is a pretty good definition for obsolete.

Obsolescence really doesn't necessarily have to do with performance characteristics.

- Edit - BTW, I am not really trying to teach an English class here.
m
0
l
a c 283 à CPUs
a c 137 V Motherboard
May 13, 2012 11:42:05 PM

Quote:
Obsolescence really doesn't necessarily have to do with performance characteristics.


Maybe not, but the word itself implies that the product being called obsolete is total junk. People that don't know a lot about CPU's (in this case) can be wildly mislead by that.
m
0
l
a c 116 à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 13, 2012 11:42:46 PM

lilotimz said:
Obsolete? My i7-920 is obsolete?! My god. Tell me which program(s) bring my venerable 4 year old system to its knees before you say an i5-2500k is obsolete...

Pretty sure he meant 'obsolete' as in about to be marked as "not for new designs", progressively phased out of production and supply chain.
m
0
l
a c 283 à CPUs
a c 137 V Motherboard
May 13, 2012 11:44:02 PM

InvalidError said:
Pretty sure he meant 'obsolete' as in about to be marked as "not for new designs", progressively phased out of production and supply chain.


Read my reply above yours for my reply to that.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
May 13, 2012 11:52:04 PM

was a bit sarcastic with my remark. But obsolete does have a negative connotation as DJB stated. Whenever I hear the term "obsolete", i think about something that has been so outdated and weak; that it's worthless to even use anymore. Like using a pentium 4 to encode or something intensive when everything released in the past 6-7 years is significantly faster..

But that's just me. I prefer the word EOL or Discontinued when describing a last generation vs a new generation product. Much clearer to anybody who's reading this thread who doesn't know about processor generations and performances.

m
0
l
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 13, 2012 11:55:29 PM

The OP seems to know enough about processors to know that the 2500k isn't total junk. Now you are just insulting his intelligence.

Clearly the only thing that I could possibly mean is the one that is completely accurate.

It is the way of things for old technology to be continually replaced by newer and better technology, in this case SB is being replaced by IB. This is happening everywhere and it is going to happen until all SB chips have been replaced by IB chips or something better than IB chips.

I don't see any real benefits to delaying this process.

If all that matters is hitting the highest possible GHZ figures then he should get one of the Phenom 2s that hit 7 GHZ. - Edit - Or 8.17 GHZ FX-8150 for that matter.

That won't necessarily translate into better processing results in actual usage than a 4.4 GHZ 3570k, but neither is a 4.8 GHZ 2500k necessarily going to do better either.

The old chips have to be OCd just to equal the new chips, again because of the better basic design.
m
0
l
a c 283 à CPUs
a c 137 V Motherboard
May 13, 2012 11:59:34 PM

Raiddinn said:
The OP seems to know enough about processors to know that the 2500k isn't total junk. Now you are just insulting his intelligence.

Clearly the only thing that I could possibly mean is the one that is completely accurate.

It is the way of things for old technology to be continually replaced by newer and better technology, in this case SB is being replaced by IB. This is happening everywhere and it is going to happen until all SB chips have been replaced by IB chips or something better than IB chips.

I don't see any real benefits to delaying this process.

If all that matters is hitting the highest possible GHZ figures then he should get one of the Phenom 2s that hit 7 GHZ. - Edit - Or 8.17 GHZ FX-8150 for that matter.

That won't necessarily translate into better processing results in actual usage than a 4.4 GHZ 3570k, but neither is a 4.8 GHZ 2500k necessarily going to do better either.

The old chips have to be OCd just to equal the new chips, again because of the better basic design.


The "total junk" comment wasn't directed at the OP, just for anyone else less knowledgeable who happens to come across this thread.

And I'm also not saying that you're wrong about your way of thinking, but there are better words for it than obsolete.

For what it's worth, I agree that he should go with the 3570K.
m
0
l
a c 116 à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 12:12:09 AM

DJDeCiBeL said:
Maybe not, but the word itself implies that the product being called obsolete is total junk.

That depends entirely on which definition you choose to use...

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/obsolete
------
1 - no longer produced or used; out of date: the disposal of old and obsolete machinery the phrase was obsolete after 1625

verb - cause (a product or idea) to become obsolete by replacing it with something new: we’re trying to stimulate the business by obsoleting last year’s designs
------

Nothing intrinsically negative about it in Oxford's definitions.
m
0
l
a c 283 à CPUs
a c 137 V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 12:15:37 AM

InvalidError said:
That depends entirely on which definition you choose to use...

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/obsolete
------
1 - no longer produced or used; out of date: the disposal of old and obsolete machinery the phrase was obsolete after 1625

verb - cause (a product or idea) to become obsolete by replacing it with something new: we’re trying to stimulate the business by obsoleting last year’s designs
------

Nothing intrinsically negative about it in Oxford's definitions.


LOL, you're right, but I'm not arguing the definition, just that some people might misconstrue it because of their own feeling towards the word obsolete (whether they know the actual definition or not).
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 12:17:32 AM

Regardless of how technically correct my usage is, I will consider saying discontinued in the future so the meaning can't possibly be misunderstood.

However, I do want to stress that it is "discontinued" for a reason.

In case it makes a difference, I am poor so its kinda hard for me to have non-"discontinued" parts in general, but I am saving for IB, not for SB.
m
0
l
a c 283 à CPUs
a c 137 V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 12:21:16 AM

Quote:
However, I do want to stress that it is "discontinued" for a reason.


I 100% agree with that statement. Doesn't necessarily mean it's much worse, but it HAS to be discontinued (for business reasons mostly). And I never meant for this to get into an argument on word usage, lol. Sorry OP.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
May 14, 2012 12:38:29 AM

Same. Sorry OP... but yes get a 3570k; newer tech and somewhat better performance (teeny bit).

In terms of the word usage; it's directed more at people who may not know a lot about computer parts as we do and who may be misinformed when we say something is "obsolete" which may mean "junk" to them.

Was a nice discussion at least!
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 12:45:32 AM

lilotimz said:
people who don't know a lot about computer parts like us


You may also want to watch your own word choice.

The above could easily be misconstrued as saying that we don't know what we are talking about.
m
0
l
a c 283 à CPUs
a c 137 V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 12:49:51 AM

Quote:
The above could easily be misconstrued as saying that we don't know what we are talking about.


He meant us, as in everyone who has posted in this thread... There's almost no way anyone here would have thought otherwise (I hope, lol).
m
0
l
a c 116 à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 1:38:19 AM

Raiddinn said:
I am poor so its kinda hard for me to have non-"discontinued" parts in general

Poor or not, the performance and general computer spec floor for decent playability has been nearly stagnant for the last many years, which makes it quite possible to stretch components for several more years than before if you pick your upgrades carefully, no need to worry about using 'discontinued' parts!

Everything in my PC is probably discontinued as well... but I don't care since it still gets everything I need to do done faster than I need it to as long as I do not try doing too many non-trivial things at once.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
May 14, 2012 8:07:51 AM

I'd get the 3570k. According to this it may be 10-15º hotter but it consumes less power and at 4.7ghz it just beats a 2500k at 4.9ghz. Also the price differnce is usually minimal.
Here is a decent article on it (In Greek, use google translate.)

http://www.hwbox.gr/reviews/16498-intel-ivy-bridge-core...
m
0
l
May 14, 2012 9:16:51 AM

@raiddin - the heat doesnt suck. IB just hits a heat wall around 4.5Ghz, by which time it benches comparably to a 4.9Ghz SB - and most SB chips won't even make it that far; the myth of SB chips all hitting 5 on air is hurting these boards.

rest of thread; tl, dr. get a 3570k. why ? cuz they smell nicer.

essentially lilotmz said it right. 2500k, i920, 3570k, they are all overkill, but since he's buying now, why not get the newest and *without doubt* best CPu, as they all cost the same.

FYI IB will do 4.2Ghz on stock voltage.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 12:13:04 PM

IB's localized heat buildup is an architectural problem that won't just go away on its own.

As the die size shrinks, the same amount of heat will be brought into a smaller and smaller space which will cause temperature differentials to increase between the outer and inner edges of the chips.

The best way to avoid that is to decrease the voltage the CPU needs in order to operate, but that is a bandaid solution at best.

Intel or AMD need to make some sort of breakthrough that once and for all gets rid of the problem, but I have no idea what that fix might entail. That is why I don't work for them I guess.

Anyway, the localized heat thing is very real and as a problem it does indeed suck. You can't just throw money at the problem to fix it. You can apply various bandaids, but you will need bigger and bigger bandaids the more aggressive you want to be with the performance of the IB chip.

Even if you get a $7000 dry ice slash liquid helium processor cooler you haven't "solved" this problem which does indeed suck.

Make no mistake, it is a problem that does indeed need to be solved. The bandaid fixes won't work forever.
m
0
l
May 14, 2012 12:52:09 PM

Agree with DigDog, get the 3570k you may not get as many ghz but you'll get the same performance for most tasks and big boosts to certain things like quicksync.

Try it on 4.2ghz first, you will probably find that gives you all the performance you need with no real heat problems.

The only reason to get a 2500k now is if it is noticeably cheaper, or you just want to over-clock for the sake of it.
m
0
l
a c 79 à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 1:07:58 PM

Raiddinn said:
IB's localized heat buildup is an architectural problem that won't just go away on its own.

As the die size shrinks, the same amount of heat will be brought into a smaller and smaller space which will cause temperature differentials to increase between the outer and inner edges of the chips.

The best way to avoid that is to decrease the voltage the CPU needs in order to operate, but that is a bandaid solution at best.

Intel or AMD need to make some sort of breakthrough that once and for all gets rid of the problem, but I have no idea what that fix might entail. That is why I don't work for them I guess.

Anyway, the localized heat thing is very real and as a problem it does indeed suck. You can't just throw money at the problem to fix it. You can apply various bandaids, but you will need bigger and bigger bandaids the more aggressive you want to be with the performance of the IB chip.

Even if you get a $7000 dry ice slash liquid helium processor cooler you haven't "solved" this problem which does indeed suck.

Make no mistake, it is a problem that does indeed need to be solved. The bandaid fixes won't work forever.


Chip to IHS is the primary cause, the tim is no good.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/24059/ivy_bridge_s_heat_p...

I'm at 4.3Ghz on a 3570K at 62C gaming temps, 70C Intel Burn test, Idle = 33C
m
0
l
May 14, 2012 4:03:27 PM

guitarwiz23 said:
I decided on a msi z77a-gd65 for my motherboard for my upgrade from a 955BE to an Intel core processor.I think now is a decent time to upgrade even though im not struggling with anything currently i have a feeling i soon would be with my cpu, so i was seriously considering the 3570k but i am worried about the heat. I have a hyper 212+ but will be getting a hyper 212 evo for the very slight increase in performance(and easier tim application), but also so i can sell the 212+ with my 955BE.

Either way, the 3570k or the 2500k i will be going with this motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
I really like its features and sharp looks, i would be pairing it with the corsair vengance low profile blue as well (8gb 1600 mhz). My budget for upgrading is 450 and includes ram, cpu, mobo, and cooler.(190 for cpu at micro center, 180 for motherboard at ncix, 52 for ram at ncix, and 30 for the cooler on amazon(have gift cards there))

I have the MSI Z77A-GD65 motherboard and it does look great. I've had no problems with it so far - I have it paired up with an i5-3750k at stock. I have 16 GB of the vengeance low profile RAM and it is great as well. Just remember to set it in the BIOS to get it to 1600.

If you aren't totally set on the motherboard you can save some dollars by getting an ASRock Z77 Extreme4 with your CPU at Micro Center for $139.99 - this price is going up:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml...

I would strongly recommend getting the i5-3750k for Ivy Bridge functionality.

Here is someone reviewing the MSI Z77A-GD65 with an i5-3750k and overclocking it:

http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/msi_z77a_gd65_revi...

Good luck with your system! I love the choices since I, basically, made the exact same ones myself.
m
0
l
a c 116 à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 4:30:54 PM

Raiddinn said:
Intel or AMD need to make some sort of breakthrough that once and for all gets rid of the problem, but I have no idea what that fix might entail. That is why I don't work for them I guess.

Until they discover room-temperature supraconductors, how to work that into ICs and zero parasitic capacitance CMOS, there is no miracle cure.

The gates on MOS transistors are small capacitors, as are traces running along each other. It takes energy to drive those parasitic capacitor's voltages up and down to signal 1s and 0s. The stored energy in those billion+ capacitors inevitably needs to be dissipated somewhere.

Higher conductivity materials would reduce the amount of energy lost in the wires themselves so more of it would be directly applied to parasitic capacitance. Smaller wires, smaller transistors and lower-k materials help reduce that parasitic capacitance but most of that decrease gets undone by increased transistor count.

Since parasitic capacitance exists wherever two conductive surfaces get close to each other, it will always be there and power drain from them is inevitable. I would not expect much of a breakthrough there, only the usual incremental improvements from process shrinks and new lower-k materials.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 7:25:38 PM

13thmonkey said:
Chip to IHS is the primary cause, the tim is no good.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/24059/ivy_bridge_s_heat_p...

I'm at 4.3Ghz on a 3570K at 62C gaming temps, 70C Intel Burn test, Idle = 33C


The same website posted 4 days later:

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/23815/ivy_bridge_s_heat_p...

This sounds like it is reversing the previous findings.

Invalid Error - All that stuff is over my head, but I have faith that a breakthrough can be made. Humans seem to be pretty good at creating newer and better technologies.
m
0
l
a c 79 à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 8:03:52 PM

my first link was from 3 days ago, your link from the 30th April? I was surprised as I thought it had been tested and found to be unimportant too. Perhaps its been reverserd again.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 8:32:36 PM

My bad, I guess I got crossed up with the same website continually contradicting itself.

I read different articles on the same page and thought you linked A instead of B for whatever reason.

In any event, the cause seems to at least be in dispute.
m
0
l
a c 79 à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 8:38:13 PM

I can see the logic in them not wanting to destroy sbe sales.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 9:11:29 PM

If I am not mistaken, they do want to destroy sbe sales.

From what I understand, Intel isn't making and distributing sbe chips anymore so when retailers sell their current stock and Intel goes through their current stock then that is all the sbe sales there will be.
m
0
l
a c 283 à CPUs
a c 137 V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 9:13:43 PM

I think he meant SB-E not just SB. SB-E chips will be in production at least until IB-E is released (if that even ever happens).
m
0
l
a c 79 à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 9:22:25 PM

DJDeCiBeL said:
I think he meant SB-E not just SB. SB-E chips will be in production at least until IB-E is released (if that even ever happens).


correct sb-e not sb, the theory is that if the tim were good, then ivb would be a serious competitor to sb-e hence killing sb-e sales more than they are already.
m
0
l
a b à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
May 14, 2012 9:40:47 PM

My bad, I was thinking about regular SB. I guess I can see the point in not wanting to kill the 2011 processors.
m
0
l
May 14, 2012 10:59:37 PM

Thrin said:
I have the MSI Z77A-GD65 motherboard and it does look great. I've had no problems with it so far - I have it paired up with an i5-3750k at stock. I have 16 GB of the vengeance low profile RAM and it is great as well. Just remember to set it in the BIOS to get it to 1600.

If you aren't totally set on the motherboard you can save some dollars by getting an ASRock Z77 Extreme4 with your CPU at Micro Center for $139.99 - this price is going up:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml...

I would strongly recommend getting the i5-3750k for Ivy Bridge functionality.

Here is someone reviewing the MSI Z77A-GD65 with an i5-3750k and overclocking it:

http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/msi_z77a_gd65_revi...

Good luck with your system! I love the choices since I, basically, made the exact same ones myself.


Thanks for the response glad to hear from someone with the same setup that is having no issues! I done like the asrock board, even though my amd board now is asrock and i dont have any issues, i just dont like the brown pcb. Even though my 7850 twin frozr iii pcb is brown and wont match the new mobo (kind of wish i would have gotten the sapphire so the blue would at least almost match lol).
m
0
l
!