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Mobiles connected to a cell

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Anonymous
January 7, 2005 3:28:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

Hi Guys,

I was wondering if there is a way of finding out the msisdns that are attached to a particular cell. This is for location based advertising etc. Any method would be ok including tapping SS7 BSSAP. Is this possible?

thanks

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More about : mobiles connected cell

January 7, 2005 3:28:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

Ping via CellPhoneKB.com wrote:

> Hi Guys,
>
> I was wondering if there is a way of finding out the msisdns that are attached to a particular cell. This is for location based advertising etc. Any method would be ok including tapping SS7 BSSAP. Is this possible?
>
> thanks
>

No.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
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Anonymous
January 9, 2005 12:58:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

You are right. I stand corrected. I had worked on a system where the
location
area was set to one cell.

The network would know only at the location
area level for registered subscribers. This might be good enough for
the location based advertising when the cells are small.

Deepa
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Anonymous
January 9, 2005 7:59:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

"EventHelix.com" wrote:

> You could do this [finding out the msisdns that are attached
> to a particular cell] if you had access to the HLR database.

Jer's correct, you couldn't. Not even the network knows which
phones are camped on a particular cell. At any particular
time, LAC of registration is the finest level of granularity
known to the HLR/network.

John
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 6:22:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

What about using probes at the BSC level? But I think this might be a problem becuase there would be no way to tie the phone(MSISDN) to the messages pulled out of the probes.

PS: Is the BSC notified of cell reselection?

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Anonymous
January 10, 2005 9:11:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

"Ping via CellPhoneKB.com" wrote:

> What about using probes at the BSC level? But I think this
> might be a problem becuase there would be no way to tie the
> phone(MSISDN) to the messages pulled out of the probes.
>
> PS: Is the BSC notified of cell reselection?

Answering the "PS" first, only if the new cell has a different
Location Area Code (LAC). Within an LAC, the network isn't
told about which cell an idle phone is camped on. The phone
doesn't transmit when camping on another cell, so the BSC has
no such information. People who live on an LAC "junction" can
experience poor battery performance due to the need to
frequently reregister as signal levels from competing Location
Areas wax and wane.

Aside from this, the phone must perform a periodic Location
Update on expiry of the (network specific) timer.

John
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 9:11:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

John,

>Aside from this, the phone must perform a periodic Location
>Update on expiry of the (network specific) timer.

Can you give me more information of this.

Ping.

--
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Anonymous
January 11, 2005 4:02:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

"Ping via CellPhoneKB.com" wrote:

> John,
>
>>Aside from this, the phone must perform a periodic Location
>>Update on expiry of the (network specific) timer.
>
> Can you give me more information of this.

Hi, I'd forgotten most of the detail, and had to do a quick
google refresher.

The T3212 timer controls periodic location updating. It's a
value, in units of 6 minutes, broadcast on the BCCH. The phone
starts a timer based on his value, and announces itself to the
network each time it expires. If the phone misses an update,
it can be deregistered from the network (effectively, logged
out or deemed to be switched off). In my part of the world
(Australia) T3212 values vary from 1 hour (some Telstra areas,
other Telstra areas are 3 hours), to 8 hours for Optus.

John
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 5:13:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

Is there a way of triggering this timer prematurely from the network forcing an instantaeneous location update? Also would the location update be restricted to the BSC or will it filter down to the MSC level.

--
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Anonymous
January 11, 2005 6:52:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <c3706043cbaf4b8798b41f748ea48fc3@CellPhoneKB.com> on Tue, 11 Jan 2005
02:13:40 GMT, "Ping via CellPhoneKB.com" <forum@CellPhoneKB.com> wrote:

>Is there a way of triggering this timer prematurely from the network forcing an instantaeneous location update? ...

Why would the network want to do that?

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 4:50:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

"Ping via CellPhoneKB.com" wrote:

> Is there a way of triggering this timer prematurely from the
> network forcing an instantaeneous location update?

I believe so, but I've never gone into the details of the
mechanism.

You can certainly ping the network from the phone, by asking for
call diversion or call waiting status for example. Presumably,
such an interaction restarts the T3212 timer - it certainly
updates the Timing Advance value in the phone.

> Also would the location update be restricted to the BSC or
> will it filter down to the MSC level.

That's a very good question. I don't know the answer, but have
always assumed that it just might get stored somewhere.

John
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 4:50:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

John Henderson a formulé ce mardi :

> You can certainly ping the network from the phone, by asking for
> call diversion or call waiting status for example. Presumably,
> such an interaction restarts the T3212 timer - it certainly
> updates the Timing Advance value in the phone.

Yes, it does.

--
Christophe

Couverture GSM Oléron 2003
http://chantoine3.free.fr
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 8:44:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

"Ping via CellPhoneKB.com" wrote:

>>Is there a way of triggering this timer prematurely from the
>>network forcing an instantaeneous location update? ...

"John Navas" replied:

> Why would the network want to do that?

To find and nail you for those stolen ringtones, of course :) 

John
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 8:44:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.gsm - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <34hau2F4c379oU1@individual.net> on Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:44:16 +1100, John
Henderson <jhenRemoveThis@talk21.com> wrote:

>"Ping via CellPhoneKB.com" wrote:
>
>>>Is there a way of triggering this timer prematurely from the
>>>network forcing an instantaeneous location update? ...
>
>"John Navas" replied:
>
>> Why would the network want to do that?
>
>To find and nail you for those stolen ringtones, of course :) 

Of course! Forgot that. Except I wasn't asking the question. ;-)
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
January 13, 2005 5:41:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

There is a unique requirement for why need to find out the MSs connected to a cell, but this wud be ideal for location based advertising aswell.

This would be preferable to a Cell Broadcast because we'd have more control over the messages and we can push different messages to different MSISDNs.

--
Message posted via http://www.cellphonekb.com
January 13, 2005 9:56:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

Ping via CellPhoneKB.com wrote:
> There is a unique requirement for why need to find out the MSs connected to a cell, but this wud be ideal for location based advertising aswell.
>
> This would be preferable to a Cell Broadcast because we'd have more control over the messages and we can push different messages to different MSISDNs.
>


We don't care about your need to advertise your commercial spam. You
have to understand that certain things can't be done because they
shouldn't be done. Advertising to cell phones is a really bad idea -
it's intrusive, unwarranted, unwanted, and costs me money which I'd
rather use to feed my kids. So, if you continue with this plan of
yours, be certain you can't be traced, because if I catch you doing it
to me, it's gonna get ugly.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
January 14, 2005 3:32:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

Simon Templar wrote:

> Jer wrote:
>
>> Ping via CellPhoneKB.com wrote:
>>
>>> There is a unique requirement for why need to find out the MSs
>>> connected to a cell, but this wud be ideal for location based
>>> advertising aswell.
>>>
>>> This would be preferable to a Cell Broadcast because we'd have more
>>> control over the messages and we can push different messages to
>>> different MSISDNs.
>>>
>>
>>
>> We don't care about your need to advertise your commercial spam. You
>> have to understand that certain things can't be done because they
>> shouldn't be done. Advertising to cell phones is a really bad idea -
>> it's intrusive, unwarranted, unwanted, and costs me money which I'd
>> rather use to feed my kids. So, if you continue with this plan of
>> yours, be certain you can't be traced, because if I catch you doing it
>> to me, it's gonna get ugly.
>>
>
> If thes smart arses want to SPAM our mobile phones, how about they give
> us a brand new phone and pay for our phone calls. They could SPAM me as
> much as they want then! :) 
>

It's less about the money issue and more about their attitude that they
actually believe they have some sort of right to do what they do - as if
they've been annointed by some constitutional fine print that makes them
Keepers of All Things Dear. They don't. They never did. It's
bullshit. Always has been. It's been a long, long time since I've seen
any flavour of commercial advert that offers me anything that I want or
something I don't already have. Plus, the mentality one is required to
have to actually believe their hock or witness their schtick is about
half a notch above pond scum. I've never spoken to a marketer that
didn't offend me personally nor even care that they did. As a
consequence, all marketing in any form or fashion is filtered from my
entire life and ignored to render it ineffective because frankly, I
don't want their dreck washing over me or my family. Ever.


--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
January 15, 2005 12:17:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

Reply to message from Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> (Fri, 14 Jan 2005 08:32:
35) about "Re: Mobiles connected to a cell":


J> Simon Templar wrote:

>> Jer wrote:

>>> Ping via CellPhoneKB.com wrote:

>>>> There is a unique requirement for why need to find out the MSs
>>>> connected to a cell, but this wud be ideal for location based
>>>> advertising aswell.

>>>> This would be preferable to a Cell Broadcast because we'd have
>>>> more control over the messages and we can push different messages
>>>> to different MSISDNs.



>>> We don't care about your need to advertise your commercial spam.
>>> You have to understand that certain things can't be done because
>>> they shouldn't be done. Advertising to cell phones is a really bad
>>> idea - it's intrusive, unwarranted, unwanted, and costs me money
>>> which I'd rather use to feed my kids. So, if you continue with this
>>> plan of yours, be certain you can't be traced, because if I catch
>>> you doing it to me, it's gonna get ugly.


>> If thes smart arses want to SPAM our mobile phones, how about they
>> give us a brand new phone and pay for our phone calls. They could
>> SPAM me as much as they want then! :) 


J> It's less about the money issue and more about their attitude that
J> they actually believe they have some sort of right to do what they
J> do - as if they've been annointed by some constitutional fine print
J> that makes them Keepers of All Things Dear. They don't. They never
J> did. It's bullshit. Always has been. It's been a long, long time
J> since I've seen any flavour of commercial advert that offers me
J> anything that I want or something I don't already have. Plus, the
J> mentality one is required to have to actually believe their hock or
J> witness their schtick is about half a notch above pond scum. I've
J> never spoken to a marketer that didn't offend me personally nor even
J> care that they did. As a consequence, all marketing in any form or
J> fashion is filtered from my entire life and ignored to render it
J> ineffective because frankly, I don't want their dreck washing over
J> me or my family. Ever.


J> --
J> jer
J> email reply - I am not a 'ten'

Too bad all the previous posts to that ping guy only made him wiser.

Bye
Marcel <no@spam.please> Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:16:28 +0200

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
January 15, 2005 12:17:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

Marcel wrote:

> Reply to message from Jer <gdunn@airmail.ten> (Fri, 14 Jan 2005 08:32:

> Too bad all the previous posts to that ping guy only made him wiser.
>


Good, he/she needs to get wise.


--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 7:44:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, at 02:41:03 [GMT GMT] (13:41:03 Thursday, 13 January
2005 where I live) "Ping via CellPhoneKB.com" wrote:

> There is a unique requirement for why need to find out the MSs
> connected to a cell, but this wud be ideal for location based
> advertising aswell.

Hey Ping, can you please turn off your "Message Confirmation" setting
please?

--
Anything good in life is either illegal, immoral, or fattening..
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 5:40:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

Geez u guys, take it easy.

First of all who said anything about spamming? We'd only plug messages to people who wud have regsitered for the service. As a professional in this industry I know what is stupid and what is not. To think that an operator wud spam people with SMs is beyond ridiculous.

I'm not interested in anybodys' ethical BS. It's a purely technical question. So please don't try to "wise me up", and clutter this post. If you can't give me a technical answer then please don't write to this thread.

The requirement also has resource management implications for those of you smart enough to have figured it out.

--
Message posted via http://www.cellphonekb.com
January 18, 2005 5:40:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.gsm (More info?)

ping ching via CellPhoneKB.com wrote:

> Geez u guys, take it easy.
>
> First of all who said anything about spamming? We'd only plug messages to people who wud have regsitered for the service. As a professional in this industry I know what is stupid and what is not. To think that an operator wud spam people with SMs is beyond ridiculous.
>
> I'm not interested in anybodys' ethical BS.

You should be interested in our etthical BS because it matters to us.

> It's a purely technical question. So please don't try to "wise me up", and clutter this post. If you can't give me a technical answer then please don't write to this thread.

We may seem somewhat touchy with this line of questions, and all too
often the intent is to violate our ethics.

>
> The requirement also has resource management implications for those of you smart enough to have figured it out.
>

No, I'm not smart to figure it out - but this is the first post from you
that offered that alternative. Good luck in your endeavour to conquer
the technical SMS world.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
!