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Why didn't people leave New Orleans?

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Anonymous
September 2, 2005 10:00:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

I saw one guy on TV saying the reason he didn't leave is because he
didn't have anywhere to go. Anywhere better than the top of an overpass?
They have overpasses in other places than New Orleans. I know this for a
fact. This was an able bodied guy. He could have walked someplace better.
He's an idiot.

Let's not let people like him taint the rest of the people that actually
have a valid excuse for not leaving. The old, the disabled, etc. But, what
I find sad is that the able bodied people that could have left, but chose to
be lazy, are stealing supplies from the people that weren't able to leave.

And, somehow, this is the government's fault?

More about : people leave orleans

September 3, 2005 4:55:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

I reckon a lot of people didn't leave because they couldn't imagine just how
devastating the hurricane would be.

"Fred Liken" <nothanks@toocoolforschool.com> wrote in message
news:4318d92f$0$231$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> I saw one guy on TV saying the reason he didn't leave is because he
> didn't have anywhere to go. Anywhere better than the top of an overpass?
> They have overpasses in other places than New Orleans. I know this for a
> fact. This was an able bodied guy. He could have walked someplace
better.
> He's an idiot.
>
> Let's not let people like him taint the rest of the people that
actually
> have a valid excuse for not leaving. The old, the disabled, etc. But,
what
> I find sad is that the able bodied people that could have left, but chose
to
> be lazy, are stealing supplies from the people that weren't able to leave.
>
> And, somehow, this is the government's fault?
>
>
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 4:55:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"davep" <daveparky@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4318e649@212.67.96.135...
>I reckon a lot of people didn't leave because they couldn't imagine just
>how
> devastating the hurricane would be.

This is very true... they even said on the news today that normally
hurricanes would head toward Louisiana, but always turn into florida, and/or
turn into tropical storms... so these people have never really had a BIG
hurricane come thier way. However, this is no excuse... if they told me on
the news today to evacuate, i would be gone...quickly... taking as many
valuables with me as i could.


>
> "Fred Liken" <nothanks@toocoolforschool.com> wrote in message
> news:4318d92f$0$231$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
>> I saw one guy on TV saying the reason he didn't leave is because he
>> didn't have anywhere to go. Anywhere better than the top of an overpass?
>> They have overpasses in other places than New Orleans. I know this for a
>> fact. This was an able bodied guy. He could have walked someplace
> better.
>> He's an idiot.
>>
>> Let's not let people like him taint the rest of the people that
> actually
>> have a valid excuse for not leaving. The old, the disabled, etc. But,
> what
>> I find sad is that the able bodied people that could have left, but chose
> to
>> be lazy, are stealing supplies from the people that weren't able to
>> leave.
>>
>> And, somehow, this is the government's fault?
>>
>>
>
>
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Anonymous
September 3, 2005 4:55:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"davep" <daveparky@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4318e649@212.67.96.135...
>I reckon a lot of people didn't leave because they couldn't imagine just
>how
> devastating the hurricane would be.

Honestly, did ANY of us think it could get to this level?

>
> "Fred Liken" <nothanks@toocoolforschool.com> wrote in message
> news:4318d92f$0$231$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
>> I saw one guy on TV saying the reason he didn't leave is because he
>> didn't have anywhere to go. Anywhere better than the top of an overpass?
>> They have overpasses in other places than New Orleans. I know this for a
>> fact. This was an able bodied guy. He could have walked someplace
> better.
>> He's an idiot.
>>
>> Let's not let people like him taint the rest of the people that
> actually
>> have a valid excuse for not leaving. The old, the disabled, etc. But,
> what
>> I find sad is that the able bodied people that could have left, but chose
> to
>> be lazy, are stealing supplies from the people that weren't able to
>> leave.
>>
>> And, somehow, this is the government's fault?
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 5:48:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Mattinglyfan wrote:

>
> Honestly, did ANY of us think it could get to this level?
>
> >

Only the people with half a brain. Who would have ever thought a
hurricane could do that, damn you keep making me think you're more
stupid everytime I read one of your stupid posts.
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 7:07:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

In article <-fSdnZ2dnZ35gFaOnZ2dnU2AhN6dnZ2dRVn-zZ2dnZ0@comcast.com>,
nyyankees@comcast.net says...
>
>
>"davep" <daveparky@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:4318e649@212.67.96.135...
>>I reckon a lot of people didn't leave because they couldn't imagine just
>>how
>> devastating the hurricane would be.
>
>Honestly, did ANY of us think it could get to this level?


Most of these people live paycheck to paycheck and didn't have the means to
travel. Any large city has a huge population that fall into this catagory
along with the disabled and old. Where the government screwed up is with the
rescue operation or lack thereof. I know of several flight crews who are
trapped in hotels there with no way to get out. If this government can get
food and water on the ground in only 18 hours in Sri Lanka but takes three or
four days to get aid to New Orleans then something is broke in the system.
Here is what Newt Gingrich had to say and I pretty much agree with him.

Gingrich: Appoint Giuliani To Lead

On Friday, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich urged Bush to appoint Rudolph
Giuliani to head relief efforts. Gingrich told The Associated Press that no
one is better prepared for the job than Giuliani, who was mayor of New York on
Sept. 11, 2001.

Gingrich said the pace of the federal disaster response puts into question
Homeland Security and Northern Command planning over the last four years. He
rhetorically asked why the government believes it's prepared for a nuclear or
biological attack when it can't respond to an event that was predicted days in
advance.
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 11:12:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"H.I.V. Steve" <hiv_steve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125780536.041669.203610@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mattinglyfan wrote:
>
>>
>> Honestly, did ANY of us think it could get to this level?
>>
>> >
>
> Only the people with half a brain. Who would have ever thought a
> hurricane could do that, damn you keep making me think you're more
> stupid everytime I read one of your stupid posts.
>

Wipe the sperm from your chin before you speak next time, boy.
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 4:11:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Mattinglyfan wrote:
> "davep" <daveparky@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:4318e649@212.67.96.135...
>
>>I reckon a lot of people didn't leave because they couldn't imagine just
>>how
>>devastating the hurricane would be.
>
>
> Honestly, did ANY of us think it could get to this level?


Yes, I've been waiting on something like this to happen for 10 years
now. I'm just surprised it wasn't worse. This was actually predicted by
a few scientists 10-15 years ago.

The sad thing is that it WILL be worse when we have a "bad" hurricane
year and we get 5-6 of those things one after another. And it won't be
the death toll or the damage that causes the greatest problems. It will
be the country going bankrupt.
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 7:40:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

In article <NamdnbsPr65w1IfeRVn-2A@comcast.com>, nyyankees@comcast.net says...
>
>
>"H.I.V. Steve" <hiv_steve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1125780536.041669.203610@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Mattinglyfan wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Honestly, did ANY of us think it could get to this level?
>>>
>>> >
>>
>> Only the people with half a brain. Who would have ever thought a
>> hurricane could do that, damn you keep making me think you're more
>> stupid everytime I read one of your stupid posts.
>>
>
>Wipe the sperm from your chin before you speak next time, boy.
>
>
Watch out Matty...that guy has a huge crush on you....and that means stalker
time.
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 2:46:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"KillzoneBigNuts2" <bignuts@msn.com> wrote in message
news:46cd6$431a73f4$42139236$10484@DIALUPUSA.NET...
> Mattinglyfan wrote:
>> "davep" <daveparky@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:4318e649@212.67.96.135...
>>
>>>I reckon a lot of people didn't leave because they couldn't imagine just
>>>how
>>>devastating the hurricane would be.
>>
>>
>> Honestly, did ANY of us think it could get to this level?
>
>
> Yes, I've been waiting on something like this to happen for 10 years now.
> I'm just surprised it wasn't worse. This was actually predicted by a few
> scientists 10-15 years ago.
>
> The sad thing is that it WILL be worse when we have a "bad" hurricane year
> and we get 5-6 of those things one after another. And it won't be the
> death toll or the damage that causes the greatest problems. It will be the
> country going bankrupt.

But scientists have been predicting a giant Tsunami and the Earthquake to
end all quakes and the twister that will hit a major city. You can predict
anything and eventually it will happen. That doesn't mean that people are
ready for it when they say "eventually".
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 11:25:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Mattinglyfan wrote:

> Hell yeah. They are probably warning them about dangerous "looters" as we
> speak. "Get out now!" BTW, do they even have Generals in the National
> guard LOL.

LOL, that wasn't funny but I'm going to type LOL anyway like a moron
liar named Matting, LOL.
Anonymous
September 4, 2005 11:27:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Mattinglyfan wrote:

>
> Wipe the sperm from your chin before you speak next time, boy.

Hey you didn't keep your word again. Not like I'd expect a black
person such as yourself to keep his word. That's why the smart
people(white people) don't trust you guys.
September 4, 2005 11:35:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <nothanks@toocoolforschool.com> wrote in message
news:4318d92f$0$231$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> I saw one guy on TV saying the reason he didn't leave is because he
> didn't have anywhere to go. Anywhere better than the top of an overpass?
> They have overpasses in other places than New Orleans. I know this for a
> fact. This was an able bodied guy. He could have walked someplace
> better. He's an idiot.
>
> Let's not let people like him taint the rest of the people that
> actually have a valid excuse for not leaving. The old, the disabled, etc.
> But, what I find sad is that the able bodied people that could have left,
> but chose to be lazy, are stealing supplies from the people that weren't
> able to leave.
>
> And, somehow, this is the government's fault?

They never had a hurricane like it before so probably didn't expect it. Its
easy to say with hindsight people should have left but I think most people
would choose to stay if they didn't think the threat was as bad as it was.
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 2:26:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

In article <3o0t3nF3p1ehU1@individual.net>, my_bulkmail@btopenworld.invalid
says...
>
>
>"Fred Liken" <nothanks@toocoolforschool.com> wrote in message
>news:4318d92f$0$231$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
>> I saw one guy on TV saying the reason he didn't leave is because he
>> didn't have anywhere to go. Anywhere better than the top of an overpass?
>> They have overpasses in other places than New Orleans. I know this for a
>> fact. This was an able bodied guy. He could have walked someplace
>> better. He's an idiot.
>>
>> Let's not let people like him taint the rest of the people that
>> actually have a valid excuse for not leaving. The old, the disabled, etc.
>> But, what I find sad is that the able bodied people that could have left,
>> but chose to be lazy, are stealing supplies from the people that weren't
>> able to leave.
>>
>> And, somehow, this is the government's fault?
>
>They never had a hurricane like it before so probably didn't expect it. Its
>easy to say with hindsight people should have left but I think most people
>would choose to stay if they didn't think the threat was as bad as it was.
>
>

They just showed a bunch of white folks who are holed up in the French Quarter
that are refusing to leave their houses. Very nice looking places(and above
the water level) so I can see why they don't want to leave. I bet that
National Guard three star general has his eyes on setting up his living
quarters in those mansions.
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 2:26:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"MS#1Fanboy-JoJo" <jojo@cox.net> wrote in message
news:lwKSe.17574$sw6.6707@fed1read05...
> In article <3o0t3nF3p1ehU1@individual.net>,
> my_bulkmail@btopenworld.invalid
> says...
>>
>>
>>"Fred Liken" <nothanks@toocoolforschool.com> wrote in message
>>news:4318d92f$0$231$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
>>> I saw one guy on TV saying the reason he didn't leave is because he
>>> didn't have anywhere to go. Anywhere better than the top of an
>>> overpass?
>>> They have overpasses in other places than New Orleans. I know this for
>>> a
>>> fact. This was an able bodied guy. He could have walked someplace
>>> better. He's an idiot.
>>>
>>> Let's not let people like him taint the rest of the people that
>>> actually have a valid excuse for not leaving. The old, the disabled,
>>> etc.
>>> But, what I find sad is that the able bodied people that could have
>>> left,
>>> but chose to be lazy, are stealing supplies from the people that weren't
>>> able to leave.
>>>
>>> And, somehow, this is the government's fault?
>>
>>They never had a hurricane like it before so probably didn't expect it.
>>Its
>>easy to say with hindsight people should have left but I think most people
>>would choose to stay if they didn't think the threat was as bad as it was.
>>
>>
>
> They just showed a bunch of white folks who are holed up in the French
> Quarter
> that are refusing to leave their houses. Very nice looking places(and
> above
> the water level) so I can see why they don't want to leave. I bet that
> National Guard three star general has his eyes on setting up his living
> quarters in those mansions.
>

Hell yeah. They are probably warning them about dangerous "looters" as we
speak. "Get out now!" BTW, do they even have Generals in the National
guard LOL.
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 9:21:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"H.I.V. Steve" <hiv_steve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125887137.961270.230390@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mattinglyfan wrote:
>
>> Hell yeah. They are probably warning them about dangerous "looters" as
>> we
>> speak. "Get out now!" BTW, do they even have Generals in the National
>> guard LOL.
>
> LOL, that wasn't funny but I'm going to type LOL anyway like a moron
> liar named Matting, LOL.
>

Stalker bitch.
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 9:51:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <nothanks@toocoolforschool.com> wrote in message
news:4318d92f$0$231$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> I saw one guy on TV saying the reason he didn't leave is because he
> didn't have anywhere to go. Anywhere better than the top of an overpass?
> They have overpasses in other places than New Orleans. I know this for a
> fact. This was an able bodied guy. He could have walked someplace
better.
> He's an idiot.

Probably figured since he's been living off the government his whole life,
this wouldn't be any different.

It'll be interesting to see if any of the liberals who blame the Katrina
aftermath on the government will still the want the government to handle
their medical treatment by adopting public health care.

> Let's not let people like him taint the rest of the people that
actually
> have a valid excuse for not leaving. The old, the disabled, etc. But,
what
> I find sad is that the able bodied people that could have left, but chose
to
> be lazy, are stealing supplies from the people that weren't able to leave.


Lazy? Hell, it takes some serious motivation to carry a big-screen TV down
a street in 4 feet of water, shoot at some National Guard helicopters, and
have enough energy left over to do an interview with a CNN reporter!

> And, somehow, this is the government's fault?

Well yeah, after all George Bush failed to magically fix the levees that
have been neglected for 40+ years; and how do you know that he didn't have
Halliburton create the hurricane outright? You're not suggesting that
people should have followed mandatory evacuation orders, or even walked
across overpasses, are you?

What are you, a libertarian?
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 1:30:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Fred Liken wrote:
> "Beck" <my_bulkmail@btopenworld.invalid> wrote in message
> news:3o0t3nF3p1ehU1@individual.net...
> >
> > "Fred Liken" <nothanks@toocoolforschool.com> wrote in message
> > news:4318d92f$0$231$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> >> I saw one guy on TV saying the reason he didn't leave is because he
> >> didn't have anywhere to go. Anywhere better than the top of an overpass?
> >> They have overpasses in other places than New Orleans. I know this for a
> >> fact. This was an able bodied guy. He could have walked someplace
> >> better. He's an idiot.
> >>
> >> Let's not let people like him taint the rest of the people that
> >> actually have a valid excuse for not leaving. The old, the disabled,
> >> etc. But, what I find sad is that the able bodied people that could have
> >> left, but chose to be lazy, are stealing supplies from the people that
> >> weren't able to leave.
> >>
> >> And, somehow, this is the government's fault?
> >
> > They never had a hurricane like it before so probably didn't expect it.
> > Its easy to say with hindsight people should have left but I think most
> > people would choose to stay if they didn't think the threat was as bad as
> > it was.
>
> Then, who's fault is it when they were told to leave, and chose to stay?

What is this "two months warning" you keep talking about?
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 1:47:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

It never ceases to amaze me how liberals STILL think that the
government is the answer to all of our societal problems, even when
faced with the evidence such as this They ought to be required to
spend the day at a local DMV, or even the Post Office, to see how
"efficient" the government can be on unimportant matters...let alone
matters of life and death.

I'm not blaming the rescue personnel--they are doing the best they can
under difficult conditions. But, thanks to the "entitlement mentality"
that a lot of Americans have developed, their best can never be good
enough. And some of the hurricane victims are even shooting at the
rescuers! If I could speak to those able-bodied survivors in New
Orleans, I'd say this: YOU chose to live in an area below sea level,
prone to hurricanes and in danger of flooding. YOU chose to remain
behind when given ample warnings to leave. YOU chose not to have
adequate supplies of food and water in your houses. YOU didn't buy
insurance. YOU ended up in substandard housing because you didn't
pursue education or get a job. Do I feel sorry for you and have
compassion for your suffering? Yes. Will I help out financially?
Yes. Am I, George Bush, or the rest of the country, to blame for your
situation? NO.

Get this straight people--government does not owe you anything. It was
not created to provide you with food or with a job or health care, but
to protect your basic freedom so that you can seek those things on your
own (or not). And, yes, I realize that government also has a duty to
protect its citizens, but that doesn't mean you can't protect yourself.
In the area where I live, the average police response time is 10-15
minutes. That's apparently better than the national average, but 10-15
minutes is a l-o-n-g time if you are inside your house with someone
intent on doing you harm. So, I consider the police my second line of
defense. My first line? A good burglar alarm and an accurate Sig
Sauer handgun.

The government is a necessary evil, nothing more. It should only be
involved with enterprises that cannot be supported by the free market
(such as the military, land preservation, or highway infrastructure).
Otherwise, it should butt out. Sometimes it seems like it can help,
but that is only because it is re-allocating the hard-earned money of
industrious people. Most of the time it makes problems worse.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 2:48:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"davep" <daveparky@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4318e649@212.67.96.135...

>I reckon a lot of people didn't leave because they couldn't imagine just
>how
> devastating the hurricane would be.

They were told.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 2:49:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Mattinglyfan" <nyyankees@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:-fSdnZ2dnZ35gFaOnZ2dnU2AhN6dnZ2dRVn-zZ2dnZ0@comcast.com...
>
> "davep" <daveparky@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:4318e649@212.67.96.135...
>>I reckon a lot of people didn't leave because they couldn't imagine just
>>how
>> devastating the hurricane would be.
>
> Honestly, did ANY of us think it could get to this level?

Yes, it was documented well before the fact that a hurricane to hit
Louisiana would have this effect.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 2:56:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Mattinglyfan" <nyyankees@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:NamdnbsPr65w1IfeRVn-2A@comcast.com...

> Wipe the sperm from your chin before you speak next time, boy.

Why do you keep responding to him? You can't win anything against someone
with nothing to lose, you know?
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 2:57:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"KillzoneBigNuts2" <bignuts@msn.com> wrote in message
news:46cd6$431a73f4$42139236$10484@DIALUPUSA.NET...

> The sad thing is that it WILL be worse when we have a "bad" hurricane year
> and we get 5-6 of those things one after another. And it won't be the
> death toll or the damage that causes the greatest problems. It will be the
> country going bankrupt.

Hardly.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 2:57:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Beck" <my_bulkmail@btopenworld.invalid> wrote in message
news:3o0t3nF3p1ehU1@individual.net...
>
> "Fred Liken" <nothanks@toocoolforschool.com> wrote in message
> news:4318d92f$0$231$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
>> I saw one guy on TV saying the reason he didn't leave is because he
>> didn't have anywhere to go. Anywhere better than the top of an overpass?
>> They have overpasses in other places than New Orleans. I know this for a
>> fact. This was an able bodied guy. He could have walked someplace
>> better. He's an idiot.
>>
>> Let's not let people like him taint the rest of the people that
>> actually have a valid excuse for not leaving. The old, the disabled,
>> etc. But, what I find sad is that the able bodied people that could have
>> left, but chose to be lazy, are stealing supplies from the people that
>> weren't able to leave.
>>
>> And, somehow, this is the government's fault?
>
> They never had a hurricane like it before so probably didn't expect it.
> Its easy to say with hindsight people should have left but I think most
> people would choose to stay if they didn't think the threat was as bad as
> it was.

Then, who's fault is it when they were told to leave, and chose to stay?
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 3:27:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

People really thought that Hurricane Katrina wouldn't be too bad BUT
when they saw how destructive it was, well, by then it was too late to
leave.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 3:33:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Bright Star" <Single_Star@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21162-431DB570-1546@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net...

> People really thought that Hurricane Katrina wouldn't be too bad BUT
> when they saw how destructive it was, well, by then it was too late to
> leave.

Then they get a "de de de" award. FEMA listed it as one of the top three
disasters that could hit at least four years ago.

"I didn't think it would be this bad" isn't a viable excuse as to why you
didn't take care of yourself when you were told to evacuate by people that
know a lot more about the subject than you. Lack of responsibility for
their selves.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 3:40:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

The government was warned that a major terrorist attack was coming years
before September 11, 2001 ever happened. & when it did happen, all hell
broke loose. Not too long after that, the finger pointing began blaming
one thing or another on the failure of the government to protect the
people from such an attack.
NOW it's facing heat over their lack of timely aid to Katrina
victims. So if they screwed up in proper assistance to Hurriane Katrina
victims what makes anybody think that the government is fully prepared
to prevent another 9/11 terrorist attack?
We are no safer now than before 9/11. & the chaos over the Katrina
disaster makes us no better prepared either.
Somebody had better get their heads out of their asses or the next
time a disaster strikes, it won't be several thousand that dies but
millions upon millions of people.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 3:40:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Bright Star" <Single_Star@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21163-431DB855-375@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net...

> The government was warned that a major terrorist attack was coming years
> before September 11, 2001 ever happened. & when it did happen, all hell
> broke loose. Not too long after that, the finger pointing began blaming
> one thing or another on the failure of the government to protect the
> people from such an attack.
> NOW it's facing heat over their lack of timely aid to Katrina
> victims. So if they screwed up in proper assistance to Hurriane Katrina
> victims what makes anybody think that the government is fully prepared
> to prevent another 9/11 terrorist attack?

You're confused. The hurricane was tracked days before it hit. Evacuation
notices were in effect. Had the US known that two planes were going to hit
the WTC on 9/11, the least that would have been done is tell people to
evacuate the WTC. If they chose to stay, then who's responsibility would it
be?

> We are no safer now than before 9/11. & the chaos over the Katrina
> disaster makes us no better prepared either.

You're confusing apples and oranges.

> Somebody had better get their heads out of their asses or the next
> time a disaster strikes, it won't be several thousand that dies but
> millions upon millions of people.

The heads were very far out of their asses. They told people to leave well
before it hit. They informed people that it was their responsibility to
make preparations to leave at least two months prior.

The only way millions could die in that way is for millions to ignore their
responsibilities.

You make no case.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 3:51:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Fred Liken wrote:
> "Robert P Holley" <holleyrp@delanet.com> wrote in message
> news:1126024224.368973.13480@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> >> And, somehow, this is the government's fault?
> >> >
> >> > They never had a hurricane like it before so probably didn't expect it.
> >> > Its easy to say with hindsight people should have left but I think most
> >> > people would choose to stay if they didn't think the threat was as bad
> >> > as
> >> > it was.
> >>
> >> Then, who's fault is it when they were told to leave, and chose to stay?
> >
> > What is this "two months warning" you keep talking about?
>
> The Times-Picayune reported in July about the need for people to make plans
> for evacuation in case of a hurricane, and specifically reported that the
> federal government would not do that for them. That they needed to make
> plans to get out and that once they were out, the Red Cross would help them.
> They chose to ignore that.
>
> Not to mention the fact that local government screwed up in not getting the
> many school busses it had on the road to get people out. Why does everyone
> seem to think it's the federal government's responsibility, or Bush's? Just
> vultures.

Oh I agree. The local government here deserves most of the blame, but
I was curious about this pre-emptive evacuation plan back from July.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 4:38:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Robert P Holley" <holleyrp@delanet.com> wrote in message
news:1126024224.368973.13480@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

>> >> And, somehow, this is the government's fault?
>> >
>> > They never had a hurricane like it before so probably didn't expect it.
>> > Its easy to say with hindsight people should have left but I think most
>> > people would choose to stay if they didn't think the threat was as bad
>> > as
>> > it was.
>>
>> Then, who's fault is it when they were told to leave, and chose to stay?
>
> What is this "two months warning" you keep talking about?

The Times-Picayune reported in July about the need for people to make plans
for evacuation in case of a hurricane, and specifically reported that the
federal government would not do that for them. That they needed to make
plans to get out and that once they were out, the Red Cross would help them.
They chose to ignore that.

Not to mention the fact that local government screwed up in not getting the
many school busses it had on the road to get people out. Why does everyone
seem to think it's the federal government's responsibility, or Bush's? Just
vultures.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 7:57:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Fred Liken wrote:
> I saw one guy on TV saying the reason he didn't leave is because he
> didn't have anywhere to go. Anywhere better than the top of an overpass?
> They have overpasses in other places than New Orleans. I know this for a
> fact. This was an able bodied guy. He could have walked someplace better.
> He's an idiot.
>
> Let's not let people like him taint the rest of the people that actually
> have a valid excuse for not leaving. The old, the disabled, etc. But, what
> I find sad is that the able bodied people that could have left, but chose to
> be lazy, are stealing supplies from the people that weren't able to leave.
>
> And, somehow, this is the government's fault?

So you blame the victims? I know you are a strict Bush supporter, but I
can hardly believe I'm reading this, and you are not the only one
espousing this. It's been reported in various newspapers that the
majority of the victims were poor, had nowhere to go or did not have
any cars (apparently there is a significant percentage of car-less
people in New Orleans).

Now, while the Federal Government failed miserably, they certainly
weren't the only ones at fault here. Things have to change in the
future, blaming the victims hinders any possibility of progress.
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 8:49:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Get this straight people--government does not owe you anything.

You're that nutcase out of San Andreas, aren't you?

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 9:17:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

In article <46cd6$431a73f4$42139236$10484@DIALUPUSA.NET>,
KillzoneBigNuts2 <bignuts@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>> Honestly, did ANY of us think it could get to this level?
>
>
>Yes, I've been waiting on something like this to happen for 10 years
>now. I'm just surprised it wasn't worse. This was actually predicted by
>a few scientists 10-15 years ago.
>
>The sad thing is that it WILL be worse when we have a "bad" hurricane
>year and we get 5-6 of those things one after another. And it won't be
>the death toll or the damage that causes the greatest problems. It will
>be the country going bankrupt.

Bah. That massive earthquake that the East Coast is supposedly long
overdue for will destroy us long before then.

Of course, there's also that massive tsunami that's also supposed to wipe
us out according to that one Discovery Channel special they replay every
few months. Something about the Azore? Islands collapsing into the
Atlantic.

==========
Steve Liu
"There's the right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way." - Homer
"Isn't that the wrong way?" - Bart
"Yes, but faster."
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 10:29:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"D Turkin" <duck_turkin@hotmail.com> wrote

>> I saw one guy on TV saying the reason he didn't leave is because he
>> didn't have anywhere to go. Anywhere better than the top of an overpass?
>> They have overpasses in other places than New Orleans. I know this for a
>> fact. This was an able bodied guy. He could have walked someplace
>> better.
>> He's an idiot.
>>
>> Let's not let people like him taint the rest of the people that
>> actually
>> have a valid excuse for not leaving. The old, the disabled, etc. But,
>> what
>> I find sad is that the able bodied people that could have left, but chose
>> to
>> be lazy, are stealing supplies from the people that weren't able to
>> leave.
>>
>> And, somehow, this is the government's fault?

> So you blame the victims?

The victims being the elderly and mentally disabled? Hardly. They needed
help to leave.
But, it's generous to call the other people behind "victims", per se, of
anything other than their own poor choices.

> I know you are a strict Bush supporter, but I
> can hardly believe I'm reading this,

Why?

> and you are not the only one
> espousing this.

Of course not.

> It's been reported in various newspapers that the
> majority of the victims were poor, had nowhere to go

It was their responsibility. They were told two months earlier to make
plans on how to get out in the case of an emergency and that the Red Cross
would take care of them when they were there. No place to go is not true.
The Red Cross would help them where they went. They chose to ignore that.

> or did not have
> any cars (apparently there is a significant percentage of car-less
> people in New Orleans).

You don't need a car to have a plan.

> Now, while the Federal Government failed miserably,

What did they fail on, as far as people not leaving? It's not their
responsibility to evacuate those people. That's not a job of the federal
government. What about all the municipal busses that weren't used to get
people out? You can't blame the federal government for that.

> they certainly weren't the only ones at fault here.

They weren't at fault at all for the people staying behind. Only the people
who stayed. They had time to prepare, but they did nothing.

> Things have to change in the
> future, blaming the victims hinders any possibility of progress.

Things have to change, yes. People have to take responsibility for what
they are responsible for and realize that it isn't the federal government's
responsibility. Ignoring that will only lead to it happening again.

Why do you treat these people like they are retarded? Don't you have any
respect for their abilities?
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 11:11:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Fred Liken" <nothanks@toocoolforschool.com> wrote in message
news:431dc195$0$181$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
> "Bright Star" <Single_Star@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:21163-431DB855-375@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net...
>
>> The government was warned that a major terrorist attack was coming years
>> before September 11, 2001 ever happened. & when it did happen, all hell
>> broke loose. Not too long after that, the finger pointing began blaming
>> one thing or another on the failure of the government to protect the
>> people from such an attack.
>> NOW it's facing heat over their lack of timely aid to Katrina
>> victims. So if they screwed up in proper assistance to Hurriane Katrina
>> victims what makes anybody think that the government is fully prepared
>> to prevent another 9/11 terrorist attack?
>
> You're confused. The hurricane was tracked days before it hit.
> Evacuation notices were in effect. Had the US known that two planes were
> going to hit the WTC on 9/11, the least that would have been done is tell
> people to evacuate the WTC. If they chose to stay, then who's
> responsibility would it be?
>

But no one would have been "forced" to stay in the WTC with any type of
warning. No one will be stuck because they didn't have enough money to take
the elevator down to the lobby or want to stay because they "have nowhere
else to go". There would be no WTC squatters who don't evacuate because
they are afraid someone will loot their cubicle. Its not the same thing.

>> We are no safer now than before 9/11. & the chaos over the Katrina
>> disaster makes us no better prepared either.
>
> You're confusing apples and oranges.
>
>> Somebody had better get their heads out of their asses or the next
>> time a disaster strikes, it won't be several thousand that dies but
>> millions upon millions of people.
>
> The heads were very far out of their asses. They told people to leave
> well before it hit. They informed people that it was their responsibility
> to make preparations to leave at least two months prior.

Even with two months warning, many inhabitants of the 7th most impovershed
city in the country simple could not go anywhere. They live paycheck to
paycheck and now that I see many of those houses, it is quite obvious that
there was a side of New Orleans that the tourists and Cops in Mardi Gras
watchers never actually saw.

>
> The only way millions could die in that way is for millions to ignore
> their responsibilities.
>
> You make no case.
>
Anonymous
September 6, 2005 11:17:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Android66" <mandrovich@wifibullseye.com> wrote in message
news:1126025234.668258.103680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> It never ceases to amaze me how liberals STILL think that the
> government is the answer to all of our societal problems, even when
> faced with the evidence such as this They ought to be required to
> spend the day at a local DMV, or even the Post Office, to see how
> "efficient" the government can be on unimportant matters...let alone
> matters of life and death.
>
> I'm not blaming the rescue personnel--they are doing the best they can
> under difficult conditions. But, thanks to the "entitlement mentality"
> that a lot of Americans have developed, their best can never be good
> enough. And some of the hurricane victims are even shooting at the
> rescuers! If I could speak to those able-bodied survivors in New
> Orleans, I'd say this: YOU chose to live in an area below sea level,
> prone to hurricanes and in danger of flooding. YOU chose to remain
> behind when given ample warnings to leave. YOU chose not to have
> adequate supplies of food and water in your houses. YOU didn't buy
> insurance. YOU ended up in substandard housing because you didn't
> pursue education or get a job. Do I feel sorry for you and have
> compassion for your suffering? Yes. Will I help out financially?
> Yes. Am I, George Bush, or the rest of the country, to blame for your
> situation? NO.
>
> Get this straight people--government does not owe you anything. It was
> not created to provide you with food or with a job or health care, but
> to protect your basic freedom so that you can seek those things on your
> own (or not). And, yes, I realize that government also has a duty to
> protect its citizens, but that doesn't mean you can't protect yourself.
> In the area where I live, the average police response time is 10-15
> minutes. That's apparently better than the national average, but 10-15
> minutes is a l-o-n-g time if you are inside your house with someone
> intent on doing you harm. So, I consider the police my second line of
> defense. My first line? A good burglar alarm and an accurate Sig
> Sauer handgun.
>
> The government is a necessary evil, nothing more. It should only be
> involved with enterprises that cannot be supported by the free market
> (such as the military, land preservation, or highway infrastructure).
> Otherwise, it should butt out. Sometimes it seems like it can help,
> but that is only because it is re-allocating the hard-earned money of
> industrious people. Most of the time it makes problems worse.
>

Mark,

While you are right on many fronts, the fact of the matter is that it
shouldn't take more time to help US crisis victims than it doesn't to help
Tsunami victims across the globe and that is what has happened in this case.
We were there in the blink of an eyelash. I think those people were not
looking for special treatment but rather just a little of the same.
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 1:15:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Mattinglyfan" <nyyankees@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:T5Wdna2xoN3Ro4PeRVn-ig@comcast.com...

>>> The government was warned that a major terrorist attack was coming years
>>> before September 11, 2001 ever happened. & when it did happen, all hell
>>> broke loose. Not too long after that, the finger pointing began blaming
>>> one thing or another on the failure of the government to protect the
>>> people from such an attack.
>>> NOW it's facing heat over their lack of timely aid to Katrina
>>> victims. So if they screwed up in proper assistance to Hurriane Katrina
>>> victims what makes anybody think that the government is fully prepared
>>> to prevent another 9/11 terrorist attack?
>>
>> You're confused. The hurricane was tracked days before it hit.
>> Evacuation notices were in effect. Had the US known that two planes were
>> going to hit the WTC on 9/11, the least that would have been done is tell
>> people to evacuate the WTC. If they chose to stay, then who's
>> responsibility would it be?
>
> But no one would have been "forced" to stay in the WTC with any type of
> warning.

No one was forced to stay in NO.

> No one will be stuck because they didn't have enough money to take the
> elevator down to the lobby or want to stay because they "have nowhere else
> to go".

Neither of those are valid excuses. You can find a way out of town, and
many people that "didn't have enough money" did. They were told to plan for
this two months earlier. No where else to go is not either. The Red Cross
is everywhere.

Let's be honest. Both of those are weak excuses for not trying. Perhaps
they believed that was true and didn't bother to try, but many got out who
were in the same situation. Effort is the number one difference.

> There would be no WTC squatters who don't evacuate because they are afraid
> someone will loot their cubicle.

That's a choice.

> Its not the same thing.

It's obviously not the same thing. That was my point.

>> The heads were very far out of their asses. They told people to leave
>> well before it hit. They informed people that it was their
>> responsibility to make preparations to leave at least two months prior.
>
> Even with two months warning, many inhabitants of the 7th most impovershed
> city in the country simple could not go anywhere.

Bullshit. That's a cop out attitude. Many of those people poorer than
those that stayed behind got out.

> They live paycheck to paycheck and now that I see many of those houses, it
> is quite obvious that there was a side of New Orleans that the tourists
> and Cops in Mardi Gras watchers never actually saw.

People all over the world that have a lot less than the people that didn't
leave NO have traveled distances a lot longer than those people needed to in
less time than those people had. They, of course, knew they were
responsible for themselves and didn't have some expectation that some
cavalry would ride in to help them. Hell, they were probably running from
the cavalry.

Two months is enough time for the poorest of Americans to prepare to move
the relatively short distances required.
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 2:16:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Mattinglyfan <nyyankees@comcast.net> wrote:

> "davep" <daveparky@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:4318e649@212.67.96.135...
> >I reckon a lot of people didn't leave because they couldn't imagine just
> >how
> > devastating the hurricane would be.

> Honestly, did ANY of us think it could get to this level?

From looking at the data on Saturday night, I'd say NOLA got lucky.

If the storm hadn't weakend, and hadn't veered off at the last minute I
don't think we'd be upset about the living conditions at the superdome
because there wouldn't be anyone living at the superdome.

The levees held, for the most part. Something that they should be
thankful for. It could have been a lot worse - as in "there is no more
New Orleans".
Anonymous
September 7, 2005 2:19:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"MS#1Fanboy-JoJo" <jojo@cox.net> wrote in message
news:fauTe.18572$sw6.10521@fed1read05...

>>Yep. And when you do it, you're responsible for the outcome, not the
>>feds.
>>
> The feds and local government are to blame for the response not the storm.

But the response isn't a given. They aren't responsible for the people that
chose to disregard the evacuation. What they do is pure bonus, and
shouldn't be expected.

>>> Bad apples in every city of this country. You have to plan for things
>>> like
>>> that.
>>
>>You are suggesting that they really should have to plan to have their food
>>and medical supply convoys stolen at gunpoint? If that's the case, why
>>wasn't martial law instated immediately so that it could have been?
>>
> If the response had been timely then things wouldn't have gotten out of
> hand.

Well, that wholy falls on the Govenor's shoulders.

>>And if you make that choice, who's responsible for you? It's ridiculous
>>to
>>fault the federal government for your safety when they told you to leave
>>and
>>you chose not to.
>>
> Only the response.

You're crowing.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 2:56:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Mattinglyfan wrote:
> "Android66" <mandrovich@wifibullseye.com> wrote in message
> news:1126025234.668258.103680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > It never ceases to amaze me how liberals STILL think that the
> > government is the answer to all of our societal problems, even when
> > faced with the evidence such as this They ought to be required to
> > spend the day at a local DMV, or even the Post Office, to see how
> > "efficient" the government can be on unimportant matters...let alone
> > matters of life and death.
> >
> > I'm not blaming the rescue personnel--they are doing the best they can
> > under difficult conditions. But, thanks to the "entitlement mentality"
> > that a lot of Americans have developed, their best can never be good
> > enough. And some of the hurricane victims are even shooting at the
> > rescuers! If I could speak to those able-bodied survivors in New
> > Orleans, I'd say this: YOU chose to live in an area below sea level,
> > prone to hurricanes and in danger of flooding. YOU chose to remain
> > behind when given ample warnings to leave. YOU chose not to have
> > adequate supplies of food and water in your houses. YOU didn't buy
> > insurance. YOU ended up in substandard housing because you didn't
> > pursue education or get a job. Do I feel sorry for you and have
> > compassion for your suffering? Yes. Will I help out financially?
> > Yes. Am I, George Bush, or the rest of the country, to blame for your
> > situation? NO.
> >
> > Get this straight people--government does not owe you anything. It was
> > not created to provide you with food or with a job or health care, but
> > to protect your basic freedom so that you can seek those things on your
> > own (or not). And, yes, I realize that government also has a duty to
> > protect its citizens, but that doesn't mean you can't protect yourself.
> > In the area where I live, the average police response time is 10-15
> > minutes. That's apparently better than the national average, but 10-15
> > minutes is a l-o-n-g time if you are inside your house with someone
> > intent on doing you harm. So, I consider the police my second line of
> > defense. My first line? A good burglar alarm and an accurate Sig
> > Sauer handgun.
> >
> > The government is a necessary evil, nothing more. It should only be
> > involved with enterprises that cannot be supported by the free market
> > (such as the military, land preservation, or highway infrastructure).
> > Otherwise, it should butt out. Sometimes it seems like it can help,
> > but that is only because it is re-allocating the hard-earned money of
> > industrious people. Most of the time it makes problems worse.
> >
>
> Mark,
>
> While you are right on many fronts, the fact of the matter is that it
> shouldn't take more time to help US crisis victims than it doesn't to help
> Tsunami victims across the globe and that is what has happened in this case.
> We were there in the blink of an eyelash. I think those people were not
> looking for special treatment but rather just a little of the same.

Okay, perhaps I was a little too harsh. And you are right--we should
expect the same level of response to our own people's suffering as we
have been able to give to other nations. The fact that we seem to have
been caught off guard by a hurricane slowly approaching a known flood
zone does not give me any confidence that we will be ready for another
terrorist attack. But at the same time, I wish people would take more
responsibility for themselves. You could fill a plastic bin with
gallons of bottled water, Tylenol, candles and matches, a flashlight
and batteries, dried fruit, and Spam for about $20-$25. If people can
afford cigarettes, beer, and a television, they can afford to make an
emergency supply kit and keep it in a closet for times such as these.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 3:04:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Steve Liu <koalatek@radix.net> wrote:

> Bah. That massive earthquake that the East Coast is supposedly long
> overdue for will destroy us long before then.

Is that before, after, or during the time that Olde Faithful turns into a
volcano and obliterates that state?

> Of course, there's also that massive tsunami that's also supposed to wipe
> us out according to that one Discovery Channel special they replay every
> few months. Something about the Azore? Islands collapsing into the
> Atlantic.

Discovery Channel seems to love obliterating the Earth - or at least the
US.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 3:09:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Beck <my_bulkmail@btopenworld.invalid> wrote:

> They never had a hurricane like it before so probably didn't expect it. Its
> easy to say with hindsight people should have left but I think most people
> would choose to stay if they didn't think the threat was as bad as it was.

They'd been lucky, and they were still lucky, but the fact is, scientists
were predicting that the city was going to be DESTROYED. In fact, all
they had to do was show people a the satellite picture of Katrina heading
towards New Orleans, and that should have been enough for all but the
stupidiest person (and there are still stupid people refusing to leave the
city even now...) I know they've faced a lot of near misses in the past,
but I'd think if you were looking at something larger than Mississippi and
Alabama *COMBINED* folks would take the hint and GET OUT.

Granted, a large number of people just weren't given assistance to get out.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 3:40:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Bright Star <Single_Star@webtv.net> wrote:

> We are no safer now than before 9/11. & the chaos over the Katrina
> disaster makes us no better prepared either.

Many experts say we're less safe now. Between the war in Iraq that has
stirred up more anti-US sentiments there and in Europe, and the
government's total in ability to respond to a disaster they knew was
coming for days, it's better to just assume that the government
(local/state and federal) isn't going to be able to help you for at least
a week.

> Somebody had better get their heads out of their asses or the next
> time a disaster strikes, it won't be several thousand that dies but
> millions upon millions of people.

Yes, only because the next civil war will break out...
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 4:01:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Fred Liken <nothanks@toocoolforschool.com> wrote:


> > No one will be stuck because they didn't have enough money to take the
> > elevator down to the lobby or want to stay because they "have nowhere else
> > to go".

> Neither of those are valid excuses. You can find a way out of town, and
> many people that "didn't have enough money" did. They were told to plan for
> this two months earlier. No where else to go is not either. The Red Cross
> is everywhere.

Apparentally you have no concept of what it means to be poor.

A majority of those who were left in the city don't have the emergency
funds or savings they could draw upon to get out of the city. They don't
own a car, and even if they did, many have already said they couldn't
afford gas anyways. Furthermore, the government (city, state and federal)
failed to provide additional means to evacuate the city. Many of those
who were stuck in the city wanted to leave, but couldn't. Those who
really wanted to stay are floating around in their attics right now...

Even if people had desire and the means to leave the city, where would you
expect them to go? If they barely had the money to buy a ticket on the
last bus out of the city, they certainly aren't going to have the cash to
get a hotel somewhere to wait out the storm. Remember, not everyone is
going to have convienantly placed relatives they can crash with...

And this doesn't even talk about the old, the infirm, and the sick who
were physically unable to get out of the city.

Face it. The government screwed up when it failed to enact plans when
facing a PRESIDENT MANDATED evacuation. The shelters they set up were a
last ditch measure, but were clearly overwhelmed by the number of people
who showed up.

Then, once the hurricane had passed, the government failed a second time
by not taking immediate action to bring in relief forces to secure the
city, not to mention rescuing, feeding and evacuating the remaining people.

This wasn't something that was unforeseen or unpredicted, like the tsunami
of 2004. There was at least 48 hours notice that this was coming their
way.


Please be more of a man than the president - stand up, stop hiding behind
your double-speak and insults and admit that you were wrong for once....
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 4:01:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:11huvqrtnmgg0a5@corp.supernews.com...

>> > No one will be stuck because they didn't have enough money to take the
>> > elevator down to the lobby or want to stay because they "have nowhere
>> > else
>> > to go".
>
>> Neither of those are valid excuses. You can find a way out of town, and
>> many people that "didn't have enough money" did. They were told to plan
>> for
>> this two months earlier. No where else to go is not either. The Red
>> Cross
>> is everywhere.
>
> Apparentally you have no concept of what it means to be poor.

lol. Actually, it seems you have no concept of what it means to be poor.
From what you say, it's clear you've lived in an ivory tower.

> A majority of those who were left in the city don't have the emergency
> funds or savings they could draw upon to get out of the city.

They had two months to prepare. They might not have had the money, but that
was a choice. You don't seem to understand that even the poor in this
country are able to scrap together the little money it takes to leave in two
months.

> They don't
> own a car, and even if they did, many have already said they couldn't
> afford gas anyways.

Because they didn't prepare. They chose not to take care of themselves.
Perhaps, they didn't know how. Perhaps, they have become so accoustomed to
not having to.

> Furthermore, the government (city, state and federal)
> failed to provide additional means to evacuate the city.

It's not the federal government's responsibility, silly twit! There's a
constitution, you know?

> Many of those who were stuck in the city wanted to leave, but couldn't.

Perhaps, they did want to leave, but never prepared for the situation.
Never even bothered to save enough for any kind of hard times at all.
That's a choice. They are responsible for at least having a bare minimum,
even in the welfare state. They were told a full two months earlier that
they wouldn't get help from the government in that situation and to make
preperations.

I'd really like to see a study of how many of those people made no effort to
leave because they just didn't think they could. The fact is, poorer people
than them got out.

> Those who
> really wanted to stay are floating around in their attics right now...

Moot.

> Even if people had desire and the means to leave the city, where would you
> expect them to go? If they barely had the money to buy a ticket on the
> last bus out of the city, they certainly aren't going to have the cash to
> get a hotel somewhere to wait out the storm.

Red Cross. Heard of them, retard? Why is this even a talking point for
you?

> And this doesn't even talk about the old, the infirm, and the sick who
> were physically unable to get out of the city.

Yes, they were failed by their local and state officials.

> Face it. The government screwed up when it failed to enact plans when
> facing a PRESIDENT MANDATED evacuation. The shelters they set up were a
> last ditch measure, but were clearly overwhelmed by the number of people
> who showed up.

Local government KNEW this was the case. They had Ivan to teach them this.

> Then, once the hurricane had passed, the government failed a second time
> by not taking immediate action to bring in relief forces to secure the
> city, not to mention rescuing, feeding and evacuating the remaining
> people.

Yep, that's the Governor's fault.

> This wasn't something that was unforeseen or unpredicted, like the tsunami
> of 2004. There was at least 48 hours notice that this was coming their
> way.

.... which is why people should have left...

None the less,

Why didn't the governor get the people out? Mayor? All those busses...

How was the federal government supposed to do it? Magic carpets? Because
those are very dangerous in that kind of weather.

> Please be more of a man than the president - stand up, stop hiding behind
> your double-speak and insults and admit that you were wrong for once....

Doug, save it. You don't know enough about the situation to even have a
valid opinion, let alone call me out. Go back to kill filing me, because
you aren't able to hold your ground because you are uneducated.

When you're man enough to admit you are wrong, come back.

So far, everything you've ever talked to me about has ended in you having to
K/F me because you get in over your head. It's, frankly, sad.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 4:01:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

> "Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
> news:11huvqrtnmgg0a5@corp.supernews.com...
>
<snip>
>
> They had two months to prepare. They might not have had the money,
> but that was a choice. You don't seem to understand that even the
> poor in this country are able to scrap together the little money it
> takes to leave in two months.
>
<snip>

This part confuses me. Someone knew TWO MONTHS in advance a hurrricane was
headed to New Orleans? Who? How?
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 4:01:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"TheLightsAreOn" <fake@thisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96CAB35DB55Ffakethisaddresscom@216.196.97.136...

>> "Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message

> <snip>
>>
>> They had two months to prepare. They might not have had the money,
>> but that was a choice. You don't seem to understand that even the
>> poor in this country are able to scrap together the little money it
>> takes to leave in two months.
>>
> <snip>
>
> This part confuses me. Someone knew TWO MONTHS in advance a hurrricane was
> headed to New Orleans? Who? How?

Honestly, people knew since well before Ivan that a hurricane was a real
possibility in the area. Ivan taught a lot of lessons that weren't learned
by the local and state government.

But, that's not the specific warning that's being talked about. That was
made in June that stated that the people would be on their own in the case
of a hurricane and to make arrangements to evacuate. They were told that
there would be no government help in that case and to prepare. They were
told that when they got out, that the Red Cross would have shelter for them.
They chose to ignore that warning and not take responsibility for their own
safety. You don't need money to make arrangements with people to get you
out.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 4:05:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

D Turkin wrote:
> Fred Liken wrote:
> > I saw one guy on TV saying the reason he didn't leave is because he
> > didn't have anywhere to go. Anywhere better than the top of an overpass?
> > They have overpasses in other places than New Orleans. I know this for a
> > fact. This was an able bodied guy. He could have walked someplace better.
> > He's an idiot.
> >
> > Let's not let people like him taint the rest of the people that actually
> > have a valid excuse for not leaving. The old, the disabled, etc. But, what
> > I find sad is that the able bodied people that could have left, but chose to
> > be lazy, are stealing supplies from the people that weren't able to leave.
> >
> > And, somehow, this is the government's fault?
>
> So you blame the victims? I know you are a strict Bush supporter, but I
> can hardly believe I'm reading this, and you are not the only one
> espousing this. It's been reported in various newspapers that the
> majority of the victims were poor, had nowhere to go or did not have
> any cars (apparently there is a significant percentage of car-less
> people in New Orleans).
>
> Now, while the Federal Government failed miserably, they certainly
> weren't the only ones at fault here. Things have to change in the
> future, blaming the victims hinders any possibility of progress.

I disagree. I think we need to blame victims more often...maybe not in
New Orleans, but in general.

When hikers choose to venture into the mountains without adequate gear
and then get caught in a storm, requiring rescue teams to be mobilized,
we need to blame the hikers. When people choose to live on the coast
of California directly between the ocean and a very large cliff and the
cliff collapses, wiping out their homes and burying their loved ones,
we need to blame the people who bought houses at the foot of an eroding
cliff. Unfortunately, thanks to pandering politicians and greedy
lawyers, we've become a nation that thinks everything bad that happens
to us must be "someone else's fault."

Government--local, state, and federal--has a duty to help people, and
we should be concerned when its efforts aren't as efficient or
effective as they could have been. But let's not be afraid to hold
people responsible. As any good parent can tell you, if you don't
eventually allow your children to suffer the consequences of their poor
decisions, several things happen: the kids continue to make poor
decisions, someone else who was not at fault (the parents/a
sibling/society) has to shoulder the burden and resents it, and the
kids start to believe that they are entitled to assistance and
protection.

BTW, I support voluntary relief organizations such as the Red Cross.
Everyone who feels moved to make a donation can do so, and they are not
forced into it. Government aid, on the other hand, is always
involuntary. The government does not make money on its own--it takes
it away from others who earned it. So if you applaud the decision to
give each flood victim a $2,000 debit card, or to simply throw money at
New Orleans, calculate the total cost and ask yourself where the money
is going to come from.
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 4:23:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Android66 <mandrovich@wifibullseye.com> wrote:
> It never ceases to amaze me how liberals STILL think that the
> government is the answer to all of our societal problems, even when
> faced with the evidence such as this They ought to be required to
> spend the day at a local DMV, or even the Post Office, to see how
> "efficient" the government can be on unimportant matters...let alone
> matters of life and death.

So, seeing as how a trip to the DMV is basically an all-day affair, we
should just be content to let that same governmental system kill 1000s due
to inaction while we just sit by, shurgging our shoulders saying
"well....what do you expect? EFFICIENCY!?"

Considering that until now, FEMA has had a good track record with regards
to responding to disasters (including hurricanes) it's not that they
CAN'T do the job. It's just in this case, they DIDN'T do their job.

> I'm not blaming the rescue personnel--they are doing the best they can
> under difficult conditions. But, thanks to the "entitlement mentality"
> that a lot of Americans have developed, their best can never be good
> enough. And some of the hurricane victims are even shooting at the
> rescuers!

The shooting incidents diddn't started until 3 days after the hurricane
hit. Had the government acted like it was supposed to, there would have
been plenty of extra police, security and national guards down in the
area. While this may not have prevented all the shooting incidents, it
certainly would have gone a long way towards securing the city, allowing
the Red Cross and other aid organizations into the city, while allowing
evacuations and rescues to take place.

> If I could speak to those able-bodied survivors in New
> Orleans, I'd say this: YOU chose to live in an area below sea level,
> prone to hurricanes and in danger of flooding. YOU chose to remain
> behind when given ample warnings to leave. YOU chose not to have
> adequate supplies of food and water in your houses. YOU didn't buy
> insurance. YOU ended up in substandard housing because you didn't
> pursue education or get a job. Do I feel sorry for you and have
> compassion for your suffering? Yes. Will I help out financially?
> Yes. Am I, George Bush, or the rest of the country, to blame for your
> situation? NO.

No one is blaming you, Bush, or the government for the storm itself.

However, don't you feel that it is part of the government's job to react
to a disaster and assist those citizens affected by it? The government
(and I mean all levels - not just FEMA and Bush) failed to help get people
out, and then failed to move in with assistance and aid after the
hurricane hit.

> The government is a necessary evil, nothing more. It should only be
> involved with enterprises that cannot be supported by the free market
> (such as the military, land preservation, or highway infrastructure).
> Otherwise, it should butt out. Sometimes it seems like it can help,
> but that is only because it is re-allocating the hard-earned money of
> industrious people. Most of the time it makes problems worse.

From what's coming out now, the government PREVENTED private aid from
going into the city, while outright REFUSING to accept offers from other
branches (eg. other city and state's offers of equipment, personel and
supplies.) So not only did the government fail to protect its own, it
prevented others from doing the same thing.

If you honestly and truly think that that's an acceptable government
system, then maybe it's seriously time to start talking about revolution
here...or at least a good mass-firing starting with from the top...
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 4:23:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:11hv14ikaojj197@corp.supernews.com...

> No one is blaming you, Bush, or the government for the storm itself.

If only you were right...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bush+kyoto+katrina...

Yes, even the weather is Bush's fault.
!