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I7 3770 Heat Tests in 85F Room Temps

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May 20, 2012 4:32:53 PM

Hello,

I have a special request. I've been waiting for the Ivy Bridge CPU's for quite some time now. What I didn't expect was the heat issue.

I have a small business that I run out of my apartment that does not have central air so, in the summer the room temps can get up to 85F (31C). Keep in mind that not everybody has air conditioning.

All of the tests I've seen have been performed in room temps of around 70F (21C) and with aftermarket CPU coolers or water coolers - that's a 15 degree difference in the air that is suppose to cool the CPU and flow throughout the case for me. I'd like to see testing of the i7 3770 (without the k) to confirm that it will not go passed 70c (158F) under full load on Intel's stock CPU cooler in 85f room temps. I cannot afford to risk this CPU dying on me due to heat exhaustion.

My budget is already tapped out so, I did not expect to have to purchase an aftermarket CPU cooler and certainly not a water cooler, which would still be trying to keep the CPU cool with 85f air. I'm certainly not the only one worried about this issue. I cannot afford to just assume there won't ever be a heat issue.

Would somebody at Tom's Hardware please test this out?
a b à CPUs
May 20, 2012 8:38:02 PM

I'm glad you decided to stop annoying the thread campers in the IB thread :) 

So you are apparently very concerned about temperatures on a non-overclocked IB CPU. OK, spend $35 USD on a cooler that will give you a -20C improvement.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Or, you don't think that -20C is worth your money. In that case, why are you posting this?

And lastly, the performance of the cooler is only part of the question. What about your case? What about the other components? Do you have an inefficient PSU dumping heat into the interior of your poorly ventilated case?

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a c 79 à CPUs
May 20, 2012 8:55:04 PM

It won't be an issue.

The temp's are stuck in the chip, the heatsink is not actually doing a lot of work, and is normally massively oversized. Its not like the days of the 100W+ chips where the heatsink made a real difference, its quite odd really.
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May 20, 2012 10:23:45 PM

Quote:
"I'm glad you decided to stop annoying the thread campers in the IB thread"


I'm simply asking perfectly valid questions in the Ivy Bridge thread. They're just whining and crying about it.

Quote:
"So you are apparently very concerned about temperatures on a non-overclocked IB CPU. OK, spend $35 USD on a cooler that will give you a -20C improvement."


There's no confirmation of that at 85 degree F room temps. My issue is that I need the i7 for the work that we do but, it already maxes out my budget so, I don't want to have to spend anymore on aftermarket coolers if don't need to and I just wanna be sure of that. I can't risk the Ivy CPU dying on me due to heat exhaustion. I need this new build to last a long lifespan.

I was hoping Intel would change out that cheap thermal paste with some new to drop temps 20c but, there's no reason to believe they're going to do that. If they did I'm sure I'd be fine.

I was considering the Antec 302 case in hopes of decent air flow

Antec Three Hundred Two
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubX0pKrtZiI

I haven't decided on a PSU yet. I'm looking at the Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold 600W or a Seasonic.
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a b à CPUs
May 20, 2012 10:38:34 PM

Surely you could spend $5 for a thermal paste if it will give you some peace of mind.
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a b à CPUs
May 20, 2012 11:24:38 PM

You are talking about a variance of 10C in temps. Fahrenheit does NOT equal Celsius, 70 to 85 degrees is 10C. There is no significant delta change there. Any cooler will be just as effective cooling at 20C as it will at 30C ambient.

Intel will be around +35C and a good air cooler will be as low as +12 but more commonly +20C.

If you don't want to spring for a cooler then:

A. Don't run the synthetic tests used to max out all the cores to get those temps seen during tests.

B. Disable turbo mode so that your CPU never leaves the base clocks.

C. Don't buy the CPU.

D. Actually monitor your CPU temps and if they get too hot, ever, you can fix them with a new cooler.
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May 21, 2012 2:57:00 AM

85f isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Come down to the south where average daily temps easily clime over 100+. Death valley gets even worse. Try 137f ,57c for those outside the us.
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May 21, 2012 3:47:18 AM

You are looking for a guarantee, no one here can offer you that...

However 85 Degrees F is not significantly high. It may be uncomfortable for most people, a computer is not going to really be affected unless you are running a server that runs 70%+ CPU and have a RAID array or something similar. For normal everyday business operations you should be ok.

You shelled out some cash to get a good CPU, was it OEM, i.e. one without a CPU Cooler included? If so my guess is you'll be fine, if not... don't skimp, just invest another $20 and get a decent cooler.


migrax
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May 21, 2012 1:13:28 PM

josejones said:
I don't want to have to spend anymore on aftermarket coolers if don't need to


So set up your rig and monitor the temps. You'll see whether you need to or not ;) 

Sorry, I do understand the need to budget, but words like "worried", "risk", "waiting", "we" and "business" somehow seem to justify an extra $30 expenditure. Heck, the Hyper 212+ is $20 shipped after rebate. Why would you need a watercooler on a stock 3770 at 85F ambient?

josejones said:
My issue is that I need the i7 for the work that we do


And yet it's all on hold over a 30 Dollar investment?

The whole thing makes no sense whatsoever.
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May 21, 2012 4:06:45 PM

Thanks for all the comments as they're all helpful.

Quote:
ohyouknow: "Surely you could spend $5 for a thermal paste if it will give you some peace of mind. "


I was talking about the grease inside the Ivy CPU that Intel is using. I will use the best paste I can.

"Ivy Bridge proven to suffer from poor thermal grease"
http://vr-zone.com/articles/ivy-bridge-proven-to-suffer...
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May 21, 2012 4:09:13 PM

Quote:
Proximon: "Fahrenheit does NOT equal Celsius, 70 to 85 degrees is 10C. There is no significant delta change there. Any cooler will be just as effective cooling at 20C as it will at 30C ambient."


Fair enough, I do know the difference between f vs. c, however, I wouldn't be able to know that 85f room temps would have an affect or not but, it just seems like basic common sense that it would matter on a CPU that has a tendency to get hot. Here's a quote from elsewhere:

Quote:
"Using the stock heatsink in 80F ambient temps will affect over CPU temps. It may not nessicarly overheat and shutdown on you, but if the surrounding air that is being pulled into the case is warm/hot then it will inevitably bring up the temps of the chip. Going with an aftermarket cooler would help and water cooling would be even better, but you still need to remember that they will all be sucking in hot air."
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/335010-28-3770-temps

A: I doubt I run any of those tests.

B: That's probably not a bad idea to consider

C: I'll still probably get it once I work all this out.

D: This new build is actually for the lady who will never check temps - she's a workaholic but, doesn't know much about computers. If this was only for me I'd keep an eye on temps and wouldn't be so worried.

I'll probably do a Haswell build next year for myself.
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May 21, 2012 4:12:43 PM

Quote:
nforce4max: "85f isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Come down to the south where average daily temps easily clime over 100+. Death valley gets even worse. Try 137f ,57c for those outside the us. "

LOL, yeah I know I've been there. It gets over 100f here for most of the summer - I'm just talking about indoor temps. But, I wonder if anybody in those areas have performed testing in high indoor ambient temps at 85f?

Quote:
"Using the stock heatsink in 80F ambient temps will affect over CPU temps. It may not nessicarly overheat and shutdown on you, but if the surrounding air that is being pulled into the case is warm/hot then it will inevitably bring up the temps of the chip. Going with an aftermarket cooler would help and water cooling would be even better, but you still need to remember that they will all be sucking in hot air."
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/335010-28-3770-temps

I'm also concerned about all the fan noise if it's going to be so hot:

Quote:
"Keep in mind anything >60C+ is going to be making a lot of noise even on the H100..."

Quote:
"To 'me' and most Hot or (too) Warm translates into NOISE to cool the CPU, and IF it takes all of the efforts of say an H100 or Noctua NH-D14 to keep the IB (K) cool then IMO the IB (K) will be DOA to most enthusiasts who have any experience with OC'ing because no one wants Earmuffs playing BF3 or whatever...>55C~60C is when things start getting loud."
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May 21, 2012 4:36:21 PM

pdxalex, fair enough. It's not just the $30 for the aftermarket cooler though. It's an extra $35 for the CPU, which I thought was going to be $278 when it turned out to be $313. The extra this, that and the other are all adding up to an extra couple hundred bucks.

I'll probably get the aftermarket cooler & good paste. Can I purchase the i7 without the stock cooler to save that money?
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May 21, 2012 7:38:36 PM

Intel does not usually sell unboxed OEM processors in the retail chains. You may get a better deal in a combo from Microcenter or Fry's. Also, newegg has good combo deals of course

MB and CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

i7 3770S and board
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

Also, it looks to me like 75C would be a fine limit to set, not 65C. The CPU does not throttle until over 100C
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?2809...

And I will repeat again, you will only see those temps if you are overvolting and running synthetic benchmarks. Most of the time your system is going to be idling.



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May 21, 2012 9:43:17 PM

You may be right about the 75c limit, I wouldn't know. If Intel would use superior thermal paste on the T.I.M., which has been tested and could reduce temps by 20c, there probably wouldn't be an issue.

I'll keep an eye out at MicroCenter & Fryes for combo deals. I've been considering the i7 3770 with the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H mobo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Here's a thread discussing some bios, drivers & bug issues with the Ivy Bridge CPU and Gigabyte Z77 -UD5H

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1692876

Some issues are mentioned in Newegg reviews as well.

I'm just waiting for all the bios, drivers & bug issues to be worked out before I buy. It would be sweet if Intel would replace the thermal paste they've been using but, I won't hold my breathe.
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a b à CPUs
May 21, 2012 10:58:44 PM

TIM = Thermal Interface Material, commonly called Thermal Paste. You mean the TIM under the CPU heatspreader, basically inside the CPU as you think of it.

I think that report is interesting, but hardly definitive. Intel has some smart engineers and that TIM may have been selected for other reasons... for instance an extremely low electrical conductivity or longer life span.

It's important to remember that if you go looking for problems with any motherboard, you will find them. ALL of them. People will post about problems, but never about no problems. People writing newegg reviews are heavily weighted towards unhappy customers. An actual survey would show the 20% poor user reviews are usually really 5-10% of the total... and half of those are people blaming the board for something that was caused by something else.

Why are you throwing all that money at an overclocking SLI capable board? That makes no sense at all. The board I linked has SATA 6GB/s and USB 3.0. Maybe not as many, but do you really need 10 USB 3 ports and 6 USB 2 ports?
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May 21, 2012 11:18:57 PM

Quote:
"It's important to remember that if you go looking for problems with any motherboard, you will find them. ALL of them..."

Oh sure, fair enough, but isn't that to be expected on a new board? - at least until there's been a revision or 2. It has been explained to me repeatedly by many, many different people that it's wise to wait a couple months on brand new mobos & CPU's to give it time for all the bios, drivers & bug issues to be worked out before buying.

Quote:
"Why are you throwing all that money at an overclocking SLI capable board? That makes no sense at all. The board I linked has SATA 6GB/s and USB 3.0. Maybe not as many, but do you really need 10 USB 3 ports and 6 USB 2 ports?"

Well, I'm glad you asked, I really don't know anything about those other boards. Most people here and elsewhere are gamers and don't always appear to have good advice on business or work products. I'll never overclock or have more than one GPU. I don't even know where to go to ask about non-gamer work or business related computer questions. I just figured that z77 would do all I needed and more.

It would be nice to have at least 2 SATA 3 (6GB/s) ports. I do actually need 6 USB ports in the rear and 2 up front, preferably 3.0 since they're backwards compatible.

Thanks for all of your input, btw.

Here's my thread for my build - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/333702-31-bridge-work...
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a b à CPUs
May 22, 2012 4:17:50 AM

If you are running high loads on a 3770K in that environment with stock cooler, I can almost assure you that CPU temps will exceed 60 C. They would for my 2600K also at stock speed

The point is, Intel stock coolers are basically junk. Even a $20 Coolermaster cooler will reduce temps considerably. You are safe however up to 70 C even as a conservative estimate
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May 22, 2012 2:37:09 PM

pdxalex said:
A $1500 build and you can't make room for a $30 aftermarket cooler, despite CPU temps being such a great concern [:pdxalex]

That was back in February. Things have come up since then, I'm down to around $1,000 now. I already mentioned that I'd get the aftermarket cooler & good paste - because I feel like I have to.
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May 22, 2012 2:42:43 PM

bearclaw99 said:
If you are running high loads on a 3770K in that environment with stock cooler, I can almost assure you that CPU temps will exceed 60 C. They would for my 2600K also at stock speed

The point is, Intel stock coolers are basically junk. Even a $20 Coolermaster cooler will reduce temps considerably. You are safe however up to 70 C even as a conservative estimate

You're probably right. I'm looking at getting either the:

- Hyper 212+ or Evo made by Coolermaster

- Noctua D14

- Coolermaster hyper TX3

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Titan-Fenrir-Sib...

Big Air: 14 LGA 2011-Compatible Coolers For Core i7-3000, Reviewed
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/LGA-2011-i7-3960X-A...

Corsair Adds ''Air Series'' Cooling Fans to Product Line
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Air_Series-AF120-AF140...

-----

Will the Antec 302 case have decent air flow?:

Antec 302 at Newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Antec 302 video Review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubX0pKrtZiI
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a b à CPUs
May 22, 2012 6:31:19 PM

Most cases will have enough air flow for that setup. It's just a question of minimizing fan speed for quiet operation... so having two intake and 2 exhaust fans of 120mm or larger is optimal.
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May 22, 2012 8:08:50 PM

^ The Antec 302 comes with a 120mm fan in the rear and a 140mm up top in the rear. I figured that would be enough for the rear, right?

Antec doesn't include any fans in the front but, there are spots for two additional 120mm fans in the front. I was curious if one 120mm in the front would be enough? Or if two is highly recommended?
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a b à CPUs
May 22, 2012 9:51:07 PM

If it were me, I would put two good fans in the front. Some cheap YLs will last quite a while in that sort of configuration - vertical mount and no restriction. They are quite famous for silence and cheapness :p 
Mount them on a radiator and horizontally and they last about a year.

D12SL or D12SM
http://www.jab-tech.com/120mm-Fans-c-81-p-2.html
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a c 121 à CPUs
May 22, 2012 10:39:54 PM

josejones said:
Antec doesn't include any fans in the front but, there are spots for two additional 120mm fans in the front. I was curious if one 120mm in the front would be enough? Or if two is highly recommended?

In my Antec 300, I disconnected the 140mm top fan (mine was noisy and a 140mm exhaust generates so much airflow that it easily pulls dust in from every orifice) and taped the blowhole and side-panel holes shut.

I have two front fans to take advantage of air filters which I clean nearly every month and only the rear exhaust fan. All three are tri-speed models set to low. I'd say those are the three essential fans if you want to minimize dust intake.

This may not sound like much airflow but in a case setup for optimal front-to-back airflow, this is more than enough. With my C2D, the 212+ is managing to keep core temp at 55C with the CPU fan running at only 700RPM and 30C room temperature.
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May 23, 2012 8:17:34 PM

^ Thanks for that tip, InvalidError.

I may take your advice as well as Proximon's. We do have a fairly nice desk which includes a side cabinet for a mid-sized computer tower so, the dust isn't as bad but, still bad enough for me to have to clean it regularly. I may cover the top exhaust fan and turn it off to direct heat towards the rear - the cabinet is open in the rear for that purpose. I should probably cover the side opening (no fan included) too.

Perhaps I should go ahead and put in two front fans. It doesn't look like I can remove any bays in the Antec case for even better air flow, wish I could. I can't complain too much about that case for the price - everyone who has it seems to love it.

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a c 121 à CPUs
May 23, 2012 8:52:06 PM

josejones said:
Perhaps I should go ahead and put in two front fans. It doesn't look like I can remove any bays in the Antec case for even better air flow, wish I could. I can't complain too much about that case for the price - everyone who has it seems to love it.

I wouldn't worry about drive cages interfering with airflow since the air filters' tight mesh (if the 302's is as dense as the 300's) drastically reduce it. The front fans' role is to pull air through the filters, the rear/GPU/PSU exhaust fans' role is to get hot air out of critical areas. The exact airflow from front to back is not too important unless you are aiming for significant overclocks, just need to make sure there is a steady supply of fresh air coming in so hot air can be steadily shifted out.
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May 25, 2012 4:20:46 AM

Just FYI, I got my new rig yesterday and its pretty much been running non stop since. I haven't really stressed it too much (but I will), but I just wanted to see what kind of idle temps the i7 3770 ran at after hours and hours of running, while I updated everything and got all my software transferred over to it. I thought you might like to see how cool or hot its running.

I'm happy to say that its right on line with my i7 2600, in fact I see no difference at all.

Right now Speccy is showing 30c as the average. With all fours cores registering 30c/29c/35c/27c (I'm right in the middle of a huge download too). I can live with those temps (ambient is about 69F or ~21c right now give or take, so I know that's a lot cooler than you were wondering about).

Anyway, I feel pretty confident that its not going to be significantly warmer than the Sandy Bridge. Only when you start OC do you see extreme temps.

BTW- it does seem a little faster than the i7 2600. No- it's not a huge difference, but similar to what I felt going from my Phenom II x6 1090T to my i7 2600. It just feels a little zippier.
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May 27, 2012 9:27:26 PM

Oh good, thanks for posting, hapkiman. I'm curious what your temps will be under a full load or testing - whenever you get around to it. I don't foresee any issues down in that nice cool basement though. Are you using the stock Intel CPU cooler? That was part of my own question was if the Intel stock CPU cooler was good enough or, just get an aftermarket cooler and be done with it. Noise with the CPU cooler etc. was an issue for me in high indoor temps too.

What z77 mobo did you end up getting? Gamers are actually the minority - most people will never overclock.

I'm glad to hear that the difference between the 2600 and the Ivy 3770 are noticeable. I've heard it actually takes a fair amount of performance increase to actually be noticeable. If it's comparable to how you felt going from your Phenom II x6 1090T to your i7 2600 then, that's pretty significant, really - even if it's not quite as much of an increase going to the Ivy CPU. That's why I held out for Ivy Bridge.

My concern regarding 85 degree Fahrenheit indoor room temps (30 celsius) was a worst case scenario so, I think we'll be fine. Intel does say that these CPU's are capable of running in high temps too. I think with a new case like the Antec 302 with much better air flow, we'll be fine. If I really needed to, I could disable the turbo on the CPU through July/August if it was really necessary. I doubt it.

We'll probably get this new Ivy build at the end of June or at anytime in July. So, I'll know if heat is going to be an issue almost straight away.
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May 31, 2012 11:02:47 PM

I guess today is one of those days as I'm at 83 degrees Fahrenheit indoor room temps already and it's likely to get a bit hotter. I wonder if Intel will ever make any effort to improve upon their stock CPU cooler enough for it to possibly compete with Coolermasters 212+ and Evo?
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a c 121 à CPUs
June 1, 2012 1:28:34 AM

josejones said:
I wonder if Intel will ever make any effort to improve upon their stock CPU cooler enough for it to possibly compete with Coolermasters 212+ and Evo?

The stock HSFs are intended to fit in the smallest keep-out zone around the CPU specified for a given socket and essentially represents the smallest air-cooling solution that can meet the CPU's thermal profile when operating as intended at prescribed clocks and voltages. As such, it simply cannot have the monstrous size of tower-type solutions and does not need to be any larger or better-performing than it already is.

The stock HSF is not intended to be an enthusiast solution, it is only intended to be adequate for operation under stock spec-sheet conditions since that is all that is covered under the standard warranty that all Intel CPU s come with.
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June 1, 2012 2:15:44 AM

^ Seems logical enough.

So then, do you think the stock HSF from Intel would be enough to keep an i7 3770 cool in 85 degree Fahrenheit indoor room temps (30 celsius) in the summer months? It's already 85 in here right now. I won't be over-clocking but geeez, 85f indoor temps all summer long?

I'd like to keep it from going past say 69c for long life-span purposes - but, do you think that is even a real issue or am I just too concerned about it? I'd get the 212+ if it would really make a difference but, I don't want to waste any money if it makes no real significant difference.
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a c 121 à CPUs
June 1, 2012 3:28:45 AM

josejones said:
So then, do you think the stock HSF from Intel would be enough to keep an i7 3770 cool in 85 degree Fahrenheit indoor room temps (30 celsius) in the summer months?

With adequate case ventilation to prevent heat buildup around the CPU, probably.

As far as lifespan is concerned, Ivy Bridge is specified for up to 105C core temperature so in principle, operating it at 90C continuous core temperature should still not significantly shorten its lifespan.
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June 1, 2012 10:16:32 PM

^ Well, I think that pretty much puts all of this to rest for me. I think what I'll do is first use the stock HSF from Intel and keep an eye on temps. If I need an aftermarket CPU cooler then I'll get one.

This new computer will be placed inside a mid-sized tower cabinet in a nice desk with a decent sized opening in the rear for exhaust so, I'll just cover the top fan and side opening to help the front to rear air flow.

Thanks for all the help
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June 4, 2012 9:41:21 PM

Here's a new z77 from Gigabyte: Gigabyte Z77X-UP7

Gigabyte's 32-Phase Power Motherboard: Z77X-UP7
http://vr-zone.com/articles/gigabyte-s-32-phase-power-m...

They didn't go into much detail on this new Gigabyte Z77X-UP7. I still don't know what the "P" stands for in the "UP7." They didn't even mention an availability date and there's no mention of the Gigabyte Z77X-UP7 at Gigabyte's website either:

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/main.aspx?s=42

http://www.youtube.com/user/MoboTV2010

I'd like to hear more about the 32 phase control and Gigabyte's Ultra Durable 5 technology too, which Gigabyte claims:

"are able to deliver up to 60°C* cooler temperatures than traditional motherboards."

That's pretty significant, especially with the hot temps from the Ivy CPU's!
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a b à CPUs
June 4, 2012 10:50:00 PM

When you add phases you are keeping the individual phases cooler, as they each work for less time in any given period. I doubt they would generate less total heat though. Probably a transistor in a 32-phase board is quite a bit cooler than a transistor in a 6-phase board... but the total heat output is similar. But I'm not an engineer.

Here's an explanation of voltage regulation:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Everything-You-N...
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June 7, 2012 12:41:02 AM

Yeah, 32-phases might be a tad over-kill.

What are your thoughts on this new 6-phase Gigabyte Z77Z-UP5 TH - not just because of the two thunderbolt ports but, because of the alleged lower mobo temps, which they test in the video below (I'm considering it due to our 85F indoor temps). I await a serious review. These new boards are supposed to be available by the end of June:

Gigabyte's Hardcore Thunderbolt Demo with GA-Z77Z-UP5 TH Motherboard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deImUH8aUHQ

Gigabyte Ultra Durable 5 at Computex, shows much lower temperatures
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLggGetNR14

http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tech-news-gigabyte-annou...

Gigabyte Ultra Durable 5
http://www.gigabyte.com/press-center/news-page.aspx?nid...
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a b à CPUs
June 7, 2012 1:26:59 AM

I doubt this is an issue. The only time MB temps have actually caused problems was back when we had a northbridge. The northbridge is now defunct in all platforms as those functions have been moved into the CPU.

I'm familiar with these Gigabyte boards with the extra copper, they have been discussed for a while. What we are talking about is life extension of parts that will already become obsolete before they fail. If a board lasts 8 years or 12 should we care? History says no, but I could make an argument for it under the current economy and the general slowing of software advances.

New tech like Thunderbolt is always cool and sometimes works out. You just never know. Few have used Firewire despite availability for a very long time.
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a c 121 à CPUs
June 9, 2012 2:55:00 AM

Proximon said:
I doubt they would generate less total heat though.

That mainly depends on how much worse the RDS-on on the larger number of MOSFETs is compared to the fewer phase ones.

If you go from 6 to 12 phases with same-RDSon MOSFETs, each phase passes 50% as much current which reduces I2R losses in each MOSFET by 75%, which makes the 12-phase design twice as efficient: 25% as much loss x twice as many transistors = 50% as much loss as the 6-phase design not counting ancillary power such as gate drives and timing generators.

With each MOSFET possibly being half as hot, there may be some small gains from lower RDSon at lower TJ as well.

Again, this really depends on how much worse the 12-phase design's MOSFETs are compared to the 6-phase one.
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a b à CPUs
June 9, 2012 6:26:08 AM

I think I see. Surely though there would be a point when adding phases would reduce power efficiency, even if there was less loss to heat.
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a c 121 à CPUs
June 9, 2012 7:39:41 AM

Proximon said:
I think I see. Surely though there would be a point when adding phases would reduce power efficiency, even if there was less loss to heat.

It is all a matter of whether or not RDSon losses shrink faster than ancillary power to manage/drive the extra MOSFETs grows. This is assuming the MOSFETs in the bigger multi-phase setup are good enough to achieve any power savings, which they might not if the motherboard manufacturer added phases simply to make meeting the MOSFETs' SOA easier rather than efficiency or stability.

Since more phases (within reason) open up a few optimization opportunities, I would hope most manufacturers are paying at least some attention to power-efficiency and opting to shave a few watts rather than shave pennies on each MOSFET and inductor.

Proximon said:
reduce power efficiency, even if there was less loss to heat.

Don't get temperature and heat mixed up. If you lower efficiency, you will inevitably have more total heat to deal with even though individual components may not get as hot due to heat (power waste) being spread across more devices. Conversely, you could have a very efficient device get very hot simply because it is difficult to cool.

Efficiency, power, heat and temperature are all closely related but their exact relationship is highly context-sensitive.
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June 9, 2012 8:06:31 AM

Thanks for all this InvalidError. We shouldn't derail this topic further but I've learned a bit.
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June 10, 2012 5:47:09 PM

Due to a bit more information like the quotes below I've decided not to waste any time with Intel's stock HSF:

Quote:
The plastic frame and pins from Intel's stock HSF deform over time and lose their clamping force. Everyone I know who has ever used one of Intel's push-pin HSFs has run into this problem (core temperatures shooting up and not coming back down for very long after changing the thermal paste and re-seating the stock HSF) around three years after their initial build.

Only fix in those cases is to upgrade to aftermarket cooling. The 212 + or EVO is an easy choice to make if it fits on your motherboard and in your case.

Quote:
The i3/5/7 HSF is practically the same design as the Core2 HSF except for the addition of a copper core in the heatsink.

Most coolers with backplates use springs or spring-steel clips which do not suffer from thermal deformation unless you either over-bend them or heat them up to their shape-setting temperature which is typically in excess of 400C. Neither of which is likely to happen unless there is something even worse to worry about as the root cause.

Quote:
The intel stock HSF have always been terrible. I just don't understand why they won't change their locking design to something more reliable.

Intel should just stop including the stock HSF and reduce CPU prices by about $20 or upgrade the damn thing by replacing the plastic frame with something stronger so that it doesn't deform over time and loosen up causing potential over-heating issues such as explained in this thread - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/337344-28-hits-shuts-...
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June 10, 2012 6:25:54 PM

josejones said:
Intel should just stop including the stock HSF and reduce CPU prices by about $20 or upgrade the damn thing by replacing the plastic frame with something stronger so that it doesn't deform over time and loosen up

Well, Intel has to keep selling CPUs and the stock HSF lasts just about as long as the warranty which I suppose might help the unwary customer decide to upgrade due to performance degradation (thermal throttling) or other such more regularly.

I almost fell to that "trick" myself after I noticed my CPU was hitting 85C instead of the 65C I was used to seeing. I started suspecting what must have happened when I decided to try re-installing the HSF and did not feel as much resistance as I was expecting while pushing the frame down before setting pins. That is when I decided to go get a 212+ (well, anything screw-mounted, the local computer shop just happened to have the 212+ as their cheapest unit in-stock that met that requirement) to confirm that my CPU was otherwise fine.
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June 10, 2012 7:41:41 PM

I've almost never seen a new Intel stock heatsink installed right by a novice. There's always at least one pin not fully locked in. I'm a member of the same club that your quotes come from :) 

Deforming might explain some other issues I have seen. Maybe it's just not designed to be used more than once also.
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June 25, 2012 4:50:00 PM

Here's a new CPU cooler design:

Quote:
Sandia Develops Amazingly Efficient CPU Cooler

"Researchers at Sandia National Laboratories claim to have developed, by today's standards, an insanely efficient CPU cooler fan. The "Sandia Cooler" features curved fins and achieves 30x improvement in heat transfer over a commercial Dynatron G950 cooler that served as comparison.....
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/cpu-cooler-sandia-heat...


https://share.sandia.gov/news/resources/news_releases/c...

Overview of the Sandia Cooler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGpV_VPUn8g

Sandia Cooler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWQZNXEKkaU
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June 25, 2012 11:13:57 PM

Yes, saw that. It's not really something that will make your CPU cooler, it just cools with less size and effort.
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September 12, 2012 9:48:09 PM

Hi all. I think that everybody is getting a little paranoid here. The stock cooler will work just fine at least for the period of the warranty and you void your warranty if you use an after market one. But if you are going to overclock, you need a good after-market cooler and overclocking will void your warranty anyway.

I've just built an IB i7 3770K with stock cooler and the temperatures are fine 29C-40C (no overclocking) and CPU fan speed of around 1400-1500 RPM. The cooler seemed to clamp better to the board than the earlier core2duo, which tended to warp the mobo because it was so tight. That said, even the stock cooler on the core2duo is still working fine after a few years.

If you're not going to overclock, I'd just use the stock cooler at least for the time being. You can set an alarm point in your mobo BIOS to warn when the temp gets a bit high if you're really concerned, but even if the cooler fails completely the CPU temp sensor will automatically shut down the CPU to prevent damage anyway. Either way, none of the IB CPUs run anywhere nearly as hot as the old Pentium 4s, which used to easily hit 80C+...

Cheers, Captain Kayos
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