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AMD Bulldozer Query

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Anonymous
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May 21, 2012 8:29:53 PM

I am thinking of building my own gaming pc but i just want to know how can you tell if a motherboard will run with the AMD Bulldozer FX8 8150? Will it just run with any AM3+ Motherboard or do I need to look for something else as well?

More about : amd bulldozer query

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May 21, 2012 8:31:49 PM

125 watt cpu support is necessary. some lower end boards only support up to 95Watt cpus.
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May 21, 2012 8:49:06 PM

The FX-8150 is no better than the FX-4100 for gaming and that's pretty bad, unless this is only supposed to be a low or lower mid-ranged gaming computer. Don't get the 8150 for a gaming computer. It's only good for highly parallel work and gaming is not highly parallel. If you must buy AMD, the Phenom II x4s are better. If you must buy an FX processor, then the FX-4100 is the best option.

Regardless, if you can wait for Vishera (piledriver), then wait. It's a lot better than the Bulldozer CPUs (such as the FX-8150 and FX-4100) that it will replace later this year.
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May 21, 2012 9:25:16 PM

sorry, but I have the 8120, when I cut it on half (4100) its crap, clunky and slow.

bf3 4100 @4.6 ghz = 30-60 fps in 64 player maps, cpu usage pegged at 100% on all 4 cores
8120 @ 4. ghz = 75-120 fps in 64 player maps, cpu usage ~80% on 2 cores, 50-60% on other 6.

some games won't care, but from what I have tested (by disabling 4 cores) the 4100 can't even compete.

If your overclocking, get the 8120 over the 8150.
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May 22, 2012 1:29:04 AM

BF3 is the only game that can take advantage of more than four threads and even then, it only uses up to 6 threads in MP. No other game will show the 8150 as better than the 4100, except maybe by an insignificant amount. Even then, the FX-8xxx CPUs have no advantage at all over the FX-6xxx CPUs for gaming, so eight core FXs are still a poor option for gaming.
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May 22, 2012 4:54:09 AM

Core i5 2500K better choice
Anonymous
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May 22, 2012 6:41:03 AM

Ok thanks you guys I guess I will have to look at some of the other processors or maybe wait until the piledriver comes out. And bearclaw99 im not getting an intel i5 because my whole pc is amd!
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May 22, 2012 11:49:58 AM

noob2222 said:
sorry, but I have the 8120, when I cut it on half (4100) its crap, clunky and slow.

bf3 4100 @4.6 ghz = 30-60 fps in 64 player maps, cpu usage pegged at 100% on all 4 cores
8120 @ 4. ghz = 75-120 fps in 64 player maps, cpu usage ~80% on 2 cores, 50-60% on other 6.

some games won't care, but from what I have tested (by disabling 4 cores) the 4100 can't even compete.

If your overclocking, get the 8120 over the 8150.


Multilplayer is always harder on the CPU, but its also harder to bench reliably. In Singleplayer, the GPU plays a much bigger factor, and the 4100 and 8120 throw out near identical FPS.
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May 22, 2012 3:58:34 PM

I would go with the FX 8120 and put it on a ASUS Crosshair V Formula or a ASrock Fatality 990FX
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May 22, 2012 6:37:03 PM

gamerk316 said:
Multilplayer is always harder on the CPU, but its also harder to bench reliably. In Singleplayer, the GPU plays a much bigger factor, and the 4100 and 8120 throw out near identical FPS.



pretty much every cpu out there throws identical fps. but its misleading even if it is hard to show. Who would be happy to buy a low end pII 560 based on single player working, take it home expecting to play battlefield 3 online only to see single fps numbers?

doing reviews and only showing the "easier to test" method is flawed. even if you have to show "randomness" of MP, do it, thats what its about is seeing the highs and more improtantly the lows.

The problem is for the reviewer is you would have to run a lot more than just a 25 sec fraps run, more like 10 minute sessions, as well as knowing how to actually play the game.
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May 22, 2012 7:00:48 PM

sarinaide said:
I would go with the FX 8120 and put it on a ASUS Crosshair V Formula or a ASrock Fatality 990FX


I would not. The best FX worth buying for BF3 MP is the FX-6100 and other than BF3 MP, the FX-4100 is just as good as all of the others (not too good, but okayish for most games so long as you don't push the graphics too far without overclocking the 4100 significantly). Regardless, OP is waiting for Piledriver. Even Trinity (Piledriver based APUs) is superior to Bulldozer, so the Vishera Piledriver CPUs will be the best that AMD has had so far, finally beating Core 2.
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May 23, 2012 6:34:02 AM

blazorthon said:
I would not. The best FX worth buying for BF3 MP is the FX-6100 and other than BF3 MP, the FX-4100 is just as good as all of the others (not too good, but okayish for most games so long as you don't push the graphics too far without overclocking the 4100 significantly). Regardless, OP is waiting for Piledriver. Even Trinity (Piledriver based APUs) is superior to Bulldozer, so the Vishera Piledriver CPUs will be the best that AMD has had so far, finally beating Core 2.


1] I agree wait for Trinity/Piledriver is the best option.

2] In some instances the 6100/6200 is going to prove a better buy, but overall the FX 8120 is a better chip, at $170 for $20 extra you get something which is better across the board which is not only related to gaming.
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May 23, 2012 7:25:17 AM

Quote:
Ok thanks you guys I guess I will have to look at some of the other processors or maybe wait until the piledriver comes out. And bearclaw99 im not getting an intel i5 because my whole pc is amd!

What do you mean your whole PC is amd? If you still do not have the processor or motherboard, you are still free to choose Intel. The only parts that amd manufacture are the processors, chipset (this goes to the motherboard), RAM ( actually OEM ) and video cards. Only the processor & the chipset must go together as amd but for everyting else, there is nothing that says it should be amd all the way.
May 23, 2012 2:07:17 PM

blazorthon said:
I would not. The best FX worth buying for BF3 MP is the FX-6100 and other than BF3 MP, the FX-4100 is just as good as all of the others (not too good, but okayish for most games so long as you don't push the graphics too far without overclocking the 4100 significantly). Regardless, OP is waiting for Piledriver. Even Trinity (Piledriver based APUs) is superior to Bulldozer, so the Vishera Piledriver CPUs will be the best that AMD has had so far, finally beating Core 2.


The best part about buying an AMD Bulldozer CPU though is that you don't have to wait for Piledriver, get it now and upgrade with the same socket later, unlike intel which changes sockets more than I change my socks.
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May 23, 2012 3:54:26 PM

well, looks like it's the other way round now, AM3+ is dead after vishera, if i'm not mistaken.

LGA 1155 may stay a little longer thoe :) 
May 23, 2012 6:31:29 PM

Well let's examin that, they came out with the core i7 with LGA 1156 and 1366, then they came out with Sandy Bridge with LGA 1155 and 2011. Two generations of Core i7, 4 sockets. 2 generations of Bulldozer, 1 socket.
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May 23, 2012 6:37:21 PM

$hawn said:
well, looks like it's the other way round now, AM3+ is dead after vishera, if i'm not mistaken.

LGA 1155 may stay a little longer thoe :) 



Err No....Socket 1155 is now finished, there is nothing beyond Ivybridge, and Sandybridge will disappear in the next few months along with all 60 series chipsets, the same will happen with IB, there is no real long term upgrade other than Haswell or Skylake which run on the socket 1150.
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May 23, 2012 7:06:35 PM

beethree said:
Well let's examin that, they came out with the core i7 with LGA 1156 and 1366, then they came out with Sandy Bridge with LGA 1155 and 2011. Two generations of Core i7, 4 sockets. 2 generations of Bulldozer, 1 socket.


LGA 1156 had two generations and so did LGA 1366; Nehalem and it's die shrink, Westmere. Beyond that, LGA 1155 had two generations, Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge. LGA 2011 had one generation so far and might get another (SB-E and the theoretical IB-E). All of these sockets had two generations. AMD's Am3+ supports three generations, K10 (Phenom II, Athlon II, Sempron), Zambezi (Bulldozer), and Vishera (Piledriver). Before LGA 1156 was LGA 775 that had more than half a dozen CPU generations. AMD's FM1 socket seems like it will only support one generation, Llano.
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May 23, 2012 7:37:56 PM

if your counting k10 as one gen, then 775 was only 2. P4 and "Core 2".
If you look at time frame used, 775 was the only intel socket that was used for a while, but went through many changes without changing the "socket 775"

AMx IMO is the same except that AMD let you know it changed some features and can easily identify what board has what features. 775 ... better do some research, could be ddr, ddr2, ddr3, ect..

1156 is the shortest supported cycle in history (as far as mainstream). First cpus released september 2009, last cpus released janurary 2010. fully developed for 5 months, then abandoned ... wow. 939 wasn't even that bad.

1155 at least made it just over a year (thanks to ivy being delayed and if you don't count the pci-e 3.0 support as a change.)
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May 23, 2012 8:17:53 PM

noob2222 said:
if your counting k10 as one gen, then 775 was only 2. P4 and "Core 2".
If you look at time frame used, 775 was the only intel socket that was used for a while, but went through many changes without changing the "socket 775"

AMx IMO is the same except that AMD let you know it changed some features and can easily identify what board has what features. 775 ... better do some research, could be ddr, ddr2, ddr3, ect..

1156 is the shortest supported cycle in history (as far as mainstream). First cpus released september 2009, last cpus released janurary 2010. fully developed for 5 months, then abandoned ... wow. 939 wasn't even that bad.

1155 at least made it just over a year (thanks to ivy being delayed and if you don't count the pci-e 3.0 support as a change.)


Actually, that's wrong. Sempron, Athlon II, and Phenom II are all a single generation (same architecture, same process node, same everything and even AMD calls them one generation, they even use some of the same dies. For example, Semprons are just die-cut Athlon II x2s) and that is why I counted it as one. Core 2 is several generations and is simply a brand name for the base architecture and the same is true for P4. LGA 775's CPUs support all types of memory that the motherboard supports because it's memory controller is on-board. What type of memory it uses is only relevant so that you know what kinda of memory to buy for the motherboard. I can take a DDR1 motherboard's P4 CPU and put it into a motherboard with DDR3 memory and it will work if it has BIOS support for legacy CPUs (which is very common). You are mistaken on what you think defines the different generations.

EDIT: LGA 1156 processors were still being released up in August of 2010, so you are underestimating it's developed lifetime. The i7-870S was released in July of 2010. Several processors were released in May, such as the i7-875K. The i5-760 was also released in July of 2010. The i3-560 was released in August of 2010. Some LGA 1156 Pentiums were released up in late September of 2010.
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May 23, 2012 8:41:53 PM

athlon II does not even have l3 cache on die and there are actually 2 different dies (dual and quad). Phenom II 8xx are the PII dies with non-functional l3. K10 is the base architecture, just like core 2.

If you want to get technical on the K10, there is Agena, Toliman, Thuban, Deneb, Heka, Callisto, Regor, and Propus. All of those are different dies with the same "k10" architecture. Thats no different than all the various "core 2" dies.

If you cound 1 for k10, then count 1 for the other. If you want to count them all, you have conroe, allendale, wolfdale, kentsfield, and yorkfield.

so now its 8 vs 5, or 1 vs 1.

Edit: Released binned cpus are not new. that would be like counting PII 980 as a new cpu vs PII 975 since it was released at a different time.
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May 23, 2012 8:59:40 PM

noob2222 said:
athlon II does not even have l3 cache on die and there are actually 2 different dies (dual and quad). Phenom II 8xx are the PII dies with non-functional l3. K10 is the base architecture, just like core 2.

If you want to get technical on the K10, there is Agena, Toliman, Thuban, Deneb, Heka, Callisto, Regor, and Propus. All of those are different dies with the same "k10" architecture. Thats no different than all the various "core 2" dies.

If you cound 1 for k10, then count 1 for the other. If you want to count them all, you have conroe, allendale, wolfdale, kentsfield, and yorkfield.

so now its 8 vs 5, or 1 vs 1.


Still wrong, although yes, there are different dies for K10 CPUs and I never said that this was not true. That is why I specified SOME Athlon II x2 dies are used in the Semprons. Still, it's all one generation. They are all the same architecture AND lithography. The same was not true for Core 2, which only shared the architecture. Core 2 had two generations based on lithography, it's 65nm generation (Conroe, Allendale, Conroe XE, Allendale XE, Kentsfield, Kentsfield XE, and for mobile, Merom, Merom-L, and Merom XE) and it's 45nm generation (Wolfdale, Yorkfield, Yorkfield XE, and for mobile, Penryn, Penryn XE, and Penryn-L). So, unlike K10, there were two distinct generations on a single socket (Llano might be able to be counted as K10's second generation, but it's on a different socket).

For K10 on AM3, they are all the same lithography and are only separated by core count and cache. Netburst was most of LGA 775's generations.
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May 23, 2012 9:07:27 PM

might want to check again, what do you think agena and toliman are? XE are just binned price hikes, not a different cpu.
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May 23, 2012 9:15:45 PM

noob2222 said:
might want to check again, what do you think agena and toliman are? XE are just binned price hikes, not a different cpu.


Those aren't K10 AM3 processors, they're K10 AM2+ processors (part of the Phenom family, not Phenom II), so it's you who might want to check again. Also, I wasn't saying that the XEs were not just better binned versions of their non-XE branded CPUs. However, they are listed as a different platform (although the same generation), so I listed them too.
May 24, 2012 1:45:59 AM

This was like someone saying "this is an apple, this is an orange" and other people jumped in and said "well if you look at the genetic makeup of the apple and compare it to the genetic makeup of the orange than you will find that the apple tastes better than the orange because the orange is spelled with an O."

My point was that with the Bulldozer family so far up to Piledriver there is currently only ONE socket. AM3+.

Core i7/5/3 family so far has 4.

The OP was talking about waiting till Piledriver came out, my original point was that he doesn't! Buying an alright Bulldozer is fine if his whole computer is AMD anyways, because Piledriver will drop right into the same socket.

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May 24, 2012 2:07:36 AM

beethree said:
This was like someone saying "this is an apple, this is an orange" and other people jumped in and said "well if you look at the genetic makeup of the apple and compare it to the genetic makeup of the orange than you will find that the apple tastes better than the orange because the orange is spelled with an O."

My point was that with the Bulldozer family so far up to Piledriver there is currently only ONE socket. AM3+.

Core i7/5/3 family so far has 4.

The OP was talking about waiting till Piledriver came out, my original point was that he doesn't! Buying an alright Bulldozer is fine if his whole computer is AMD anyways, because Piledriver will drop right into the same socket.


Actually, it was more like me saying that all fruit are fruit and then you saying that a carrot is a fruit and me telling you that it isn't. Saying that the Core i3/i5/i7 family has four sockets is misleading because it has two mainstream sockets and two high end sockets, not four sockets all for the same thing. That isn't really comparable. Furthermore, Bulldozer and Piledriver are merely two generations and all of the Core family sockets supported two generations as well, so your complaint doesn't make sense. The Core i3/i5/i7 also happens to span a much longer life time and more markets than Bulldozer and Piledriver do, so of course it has more sockets. Beyond that, you are acting as if there aren't good reasons for new sockets. New sockets are made to better facilitate CPU and chipset improvements.

Also, I never said that it was a bad idea to use a Bulldozer CPU as a place holder for a Piledriver CPU. I simply said that it was a bad idea to use anything over the 6100 for a placeholder and that even the 6100 is hardly any better than the 4100 for such a task.
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May 24, 2012 2:26:12 AM

Tomatoes are fruit! :) 

Anyways, there is NO point of getting BD. Either grab a red/black colored scheme intel board, or a PHENOM II X4/X6 processor. BD is not as good as intel and phenom ii in gaming.
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May 24, 2012 2:34:19 AM

amuffin said:
Tomatoes are fruit! :) 

Anyways, there is NO point of getting BD. Either grab a red/black colored scheme intel board, or a PHENOM X4/X6 processor. BD is not as good as intel and phenom in gaming.


Tomatoes are fruit, but you meant Phenom II, not Phenom. A Phenom would not work in an AM3+ motherboard that doesn't have support for DDR2 memory and there are no six core Phenoms.
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May 24, 2012 2:36:19 AM

blazorthon said:
Tomatoes are fruit, but you meant Phenom II, not Phenom. A Phenom would not work in an AM3+ motherboard that doesn't have support for DDR2 memory and there are no six core Phenoms.

No need to be a stickler and correct people, I'm sure OP knows what i mean! :sarcastic: 
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May 24, 2012 2:44:23 AM

amuffin said:
No need to be a stickler and correct people, I'm sure OP knows what i mean! :sarcastic: 


It's not being a stickler if it's something that can be confused, especially after the discussion that I and noob2222 had.
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May 24, 2012 2:45:27 AM

Fine edited :p 
May 24, 2012 10:22:58 AM

blazorthon said:
Saying that the Core i3/i5/i7 family has four sockets is misleading because it has two mainstream sockets and two high end sockets, not four sockets all for the same thing.


Wasn't misleading at all. Core i7 family has FOUR SOCKETS. Bulldozer/Piledriver family HAS ONE SOCKET. That isn't misleading.





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May 24, 2012 1:44:25 PM

beethree said:
Wasn't misleading at all. Core i7 family has FOUR SOCKETS. Bulldozer/Piledriver family HAS ONE SOCKET. That isn't misleading.


Bulldozer/Piledriver family doesn't have additional HPC sockets and only has half of the generations that Core i3/i5/i7 has, so comparing them directly like that is absolutely misleading. The Core family, starting from Nehalem, has been around for three or four years and Bulldozer/Piledriver is less than one year old and the Core family has both mainstream and HPC sockets, so of course it has a lot more sockets. Core has two platforms and two generations per socket (excluding LGA 2011, which has one generation so far) with two sockets per platform, making it a total of four generations on the mainstream platform and three on the HPC platform. Bulldozer/Piledriver has one generation on one platform out at this time and is coming up on two generations on one platform and by the time Piledriver is out (making Bulldozer/Piledriver about one year old, maybe less, depending on when Piledriver is released), Intel's Core family will be three or four years older than Piledriver. To not have more sockets would be ridiculous.
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