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Clarification of ROC.

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May 11, 2011 2:17:14 AM


I request an Administrative opinion on answering post concerning so-called "Lost" or "Forgotten" passwords.

The Rules of Conduct concerning passwords states:

Quote:
Don't...
<snip>
Ask for help pirating, cracking passwords, or bypassing copyright protection

I have 3 threads listed below as the cause of my question concerning passwords.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/258427-45-password-un...
At the end, someone came along and referred OP to a password crack program.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/257666-45-locked
This guy is pressuring someone for the password and they won't talk, so OP came here.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/258756-45-remove-bios
Instructions of how to clear CMOS. Is this helping to bypass a password?

I usually sometimes follow the rules closely here.
Everybody that comes here looking for a password fix has their own sad, sob story. Are we to believe them?

I seek consistency on how to respond to password related post.

Thanks.

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May 11, 2011 2:37:16 AM
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In my review of the threads listed, you have provided the right responses per the RoC... IMO

Your next course of action would be to report the threads for a Moderator to review and either delete or close the thread (you may or may not have done that with these theads, since I saw The_Prophecy closed one, while I just closed the other two).
May 11, 2011 2:49:53 AM



Thanks for the prompt answer. Your advice makes perfect sense.

Now I know "Officially" the proper way of handling such request.


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May 11, 2011 2:50:23 AM

Best answer selected by Tigsounds.
May 11, 2011 7:12:53 AM

tecmo34 said:
In my review of the threads listed, you have provided the right responses per the RoC... IMO

Your next course of action would be to report the threads for a Moderator to review and either delete or close the thread (you may or may not have done that with these theads, since I saw The_Prophecy closed one, while I just closed the other two).



I once posted a reference to the Rules in one such thread and a Moderator posted a link to Ophcrack - absolutely wonderful example to set.

Anonymous
May 11, 2011 11:38:32 AM

Sorry, but I feel the ROC's are unclear. "Cracking passwords" can cover a lot of territory. I don't consider it cracking if a poster has physical access to the computer. There are many times when a password is forgotten or entered incorrectly and there's a legitimate need to "hack" into the computer. Programs like ntpasswd & Ophcrack can be useful tools. We can't just pretend they don't exist.
May 11, 2011 1:02:37 PM


Would not the ROC have been written to acknowledge the fact that physical access can be gained by theft?

I agree there are circumstances where we could legitimately advise on going through Safe mode as Administrator to delete a User Account password, on grounds that the owner would know the password is missing on their return but I believe recommending software that tells a user the password so they can gain access leaving it in place is wrong. I also post into BIOS password threads telling the OP to go to the manufacturer but only because I know they have systems in place to check ownership before assisting - alternatively, they charge the earth. :D 

From memory I reckon every Windows NT* user for at least twelve years or more has automatically been advised to set a password hint and although it sounds like rough justice we should either stick to our present ROC or abandon that clause completely. That lot of territory is too broad for understandable Rules to cover.


May 11, 2011 2:21:14 PM

I believe it is safer to err on the side of believing the individual making the post, rather than to doubt the validity of the request. As it is ultimately up to moderators to adjudicate, I'm comfortable with leaving the ROC as is.
May 11, 2011 3:52:18 PM




I agree with you jpishgar. The answer tecmo34 gave me puts the 'judgement call' in the hands of the moderators and rightly so, that's what they're here for.

Anonymous
May 11, 2011 9:56:19 PM

jpishgar said:
I believe it is safer to err on the side of believing the individual making the post, rather than to doubt the validity of the request. As it is ultimately up to moderators to adjudicate, I'm comfortable with leaving the ROC as is.


Joe,

Are you saying that it's OK to recommend so-called cracking tools to posters who we believe have a legitimate password problem?

Grumpy
May 12, 2011 4:53:48 AM



My question was specifically aimed at persons coming to the forums asking about "Lost" or "Forgotten" passwords within their computer (BIOS or Windows login) and tecmo34 gave an excellent answer for those situations.

With the now official directive, I will consider the person making the post asking for help to be the rightful owner of the computer and leave the "might be stolen" part up to the police in the area the person is at.

A different question can and probably should be asked about other situations such as the gamer that seeks a password/source to make 'their' game run, (they swear they had it, just lost it), or a 'missing' (yea, right) CD Key for any application. Tricky posters are sure to come here hoping we're 'cool' and will help them 'get in'. My own common sense tells me they are out of luck and I act on that, but that's just me. Any missing software passwords or keys are suspect to me. They can cry all they want but they're getting nothing from me... unless we (I) am directed otherwise.
May 12, 2011 5:27:48 AM


I'll continue to tread carefully here in the virtual world as I do in the real world if someone brings me a machine they can't prove they own. I refuse knowingly to help someone hack another person's system, even if they're in the same household.

If I do get it wrong and the Mods come down on me like 1016 Kg of bricks, I'll plead the OP was breaking the ROC just by asking. :D 

May 12, 2011 11:19:51 AM

Saga Lout said:


If I do get it wrong and the Mods come down on me like 1016 Kg of bricks, I'll plead the OP was breaking the ROC just by asking. :D 


Now there is a man that thinks with his head. You are so right. The OP would be breaking the RoC and our "Always there when you need them" moderators would delete any post they didn't want answered. So we are totally in the clear. :D 
!