AMD Thuban CPU, Need More Help

[goldensun87]

Ok, let's try this again. Here is the CPU I bought:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819106012&Tpk=thuban

Here are my PC specs:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c02479700&cc=ad&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_r1002_usen#N166

I am using an NVIDIA Geforce GTX 550 Ti GPU.

I installed an Antec 500W 80 Plus Bronze Certified PSU, but my Thuban CPU STILL is shutting down on me. Yes, I realize now, that my only remaining option is to buy a new motherboard.

BUT: Is it possible that I simply need a BIOS update? Does the BIOS update automatically? If not, this machine was released on September 2010, I believe. Also, will I need to clear the BIOS password in order to update?

 

[$hawn]

Ok, let's try this again. Here is the CPU I bought:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819106012&Tpk=thuban

Here are my PC specs:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c02479700&cc=ad&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_r1002_usen#N166

I am using an NVIDIA Geforce GTX 550 Ti GPU.

I installed an Antec 500W 80 Plus Bronze Certified PSU, but my Thuban CPU STILL is shutting down on me. Yes, I realize now, that my only remaining option is to buy a new motherboard.

BUT: Is it possible that I simply need a BIOS update? Does the BIOS update automatically? If not, this machine was released on September 2010, I believe. Also, will I need to clear the BIOS password in order to update?

your processor is officially supported by the board used in that comp....so no worries

update ur bios to the latest available version using your OLD athlon processor.....once successful, swap it out for the Thuban....and u shud be good

 

[iam2thecrowe]

shutting down on you how? sure its not overheating?

 

[goldensun87]

shutting down on you how? sure its not overheating?

Well, I've been using Core Temp since I started having the problem. As far as I know, my only activity which uses the CPU's full load is video encoding. With Arctic-MX4 thermal paste, the thuban cpu managed to stay between 59-61 C, and the max for this cpu is supposedly 70 C. After encoding was done, the cpu almost immediately cooled down to ~45 C. I started playing the video I encoded, and then my system shut down b4 I even finished watching the video. And the encoded video was merely 480p, so I'm pretty sure the video playback did not make my cpu overheat.

And $hawn, I'll select your reply as best answer AFTER I make sure I have no more problems. Thank you, I'll try to update as soon as I can.

 

[Viking2121]

70c is to hot for 1, and 59 -61c is border line, and is known to cause instability after 55c. The max safe temp is 62c, yes it can go higher, but a lot of the time it wont be stable. My 1100T shuts my PC down at 69C, while my PII x4 940 would shutdown at 76c (deneb core). 55c isn't always bad, but it to close in my opinion to 62c. The bios is not a problem as I upgraded to the same CPU in a clients HP, same case pretty much. The case just sucks with cooling, I would consider in a better cooler, but nothing bigger than the Corsair H70 or H50 or you wont be able to put the side back on.

What you can try for now it take the side off and have a fan blow into the case and see how it does in games of what ever you were doing to make it shutdown. Because when you watch a video it will use more CPU than anything, Once you play a game, now you will have to factor in the GPU's heat along with the CPU, more heat in the case (since it is a bad case for air flow) means something will overheat.

I worked on a few of these computers and upgraded a CPU to the 1045T like yours, but even before I did that, the customer already had a Seagate Barracuda 1tb drive fail on him, because of heat, I ended up mounting fan on the hard drive bracket to help cool it.

This sould be better than the stock 1045T cooler, but I can't tell ya for sure. This will fit into the case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103064

Now if your not worred about the side, get a 120mm cooler or hell, even rig up the corsair h60+ inside the case some way if you feel like modding.

 

[goldensun87]

70c is to hot for 1, and 59 -61c is border line, and is known to cause instability after 55c. The max safe temp is 62c, yes it can go higher, but a lot of the time it wont be stable. My 1100T shuts my PC down at 69C, while my PII x4 940 would shutdown at 76c (deneb core). 55c isn't always bad, but it to close in my opinion to 62c. The bios is not a problem as I upgraded to the same CPU in a clients HP, same case pretty much. The case just sucks with cooling, I would consider in a better cooler, but nothing bigger than the Corsair H70 or H50 or you wont be able to put the side back on.

What you can try for now it take the side off and have a fan blow into the case and see how it does in games of what ever you were doing to make it shutdown. Because when you watch a video it will use more CPU than anything, Once you play a game, now you will have to factor in the GPU's heat along with the CPU, more heat in the case (since it is a bad case for air flow) means something will overheat.

I worked on a few of these computers and upgraded a CPU to the 1045T like yours, but even before I did that, the customer already had a Seagate Barracuda 1tb drive fail on him, because of heat, I ended up mounting fan on the hard drive bracket to help cool it.

This sould be better than the stock 1045T cooler, but I can't tell ya for sure. This will fit into the case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103064

Now if your not worred about the side, get a 120mm cooler or hell, even rig up the corsair h60+ inside the case some way if you feel like modding.

Well, on my second-to-last attempt at running my Thuban, I had waited for my cpu to cool down back to idle temp after video encoding, which is ~27 C. Then, it shut down almost immediately after I tried opening my web browser. On attempts before that, I tried playing Super Meat Boy, a much "lighter" game, in window mode. CPU usage was comparatively very low, and the cpu still stopped working. In more previous attempts, the problem got to the point where the CPU shut off even while it was left idle. Another important note is that, my entire PC does not shut down when this happens. All 4 fans remain running (cpu, gpu, psu, and system(?) fan). Also, on this last attempt, after the failure, when I tried turning my pc on, the power and fans all turn on, the OS simply wouldn't boot. Could this mean that the BIOS is refusing to start the cpu? I know my mobo is still ok, otherwise I wouldn't be able to type this message on this desktop.

 

[goldensun87]

Ok, so when I run Super Meat Boy, cpu temp is 36, and gpu temp is 42. For Kingdoms Of Amalur, cpu temp is 40 and gpu temp is 67-70. And for Skyrim, cpu temp was 45, and gpu temp was 77. All tests I did at 1280x720 resolution, and the cpu is the original 2-core Athlon Regor.

 

[wr6133]

Aftermarket cooler. The AMD coolers aren't bad but if your running 6 cores at load they get overwhelmed especially if your case cooling isn't great as well (so think about a new case). It may beable to handle 70 degrees ...... without catching fire ..... 61 is getting high.

Mass produced machines (like your HP) have awful cooling as the cases are designed to be churned out at the lowest price possible. If a new case is not on the cards then I would suggest identifying areas you can make your own fan mountings (via drilling holes)and installing a few 120mm fans

 

[Viking2121]

Oh ok, so heat isn't an issue then, But I would still consider getting a better cooler in my opinion.

Do you have any access to another Power supply at is strong enough for your system to try? Also when it freezes and shuts down or simi shut down, Do you have to either unplug it or flip the switch in the back? Might be a PSU issue. Also what you can try to do is if you have on board video (some versions of your board has the nvidia chipset) use that and unhook you video card, take it completely out of your PC, and boot up and see if it restarts. It may even be a Video card problem. Did you check the Temps of your 550ti like when playing a more demanding game, 77c shouldn't be a problem, but never know.

Might be the bios, but I really don't think thats the problem, specially since it reads in windows, Like it don't say AMD Unknown Processor.

 

[$hawn]

And $hawn, I'll select your reply as best answer AFTER I make sure I have no more problems. Thank you, I'll try to update as soon as I can.

thanx but i think viking2121 deserves it more than me

Be sure to check for faulty or loose RAM too.....my friends comp used to keep randomly restarting for a year....never found out what it was....even Memtest gave the memory a clean chit.
Then finally one day, he removed the RAM, cleaned it , and put it back And that was the end of the issue

 

[Viking2121]

thanx but i think viking2121 deserves it more than me

Be sure to check for faulty or loose RAM too.....my friends comp used to keep randomly restarting for a year....never found out what it was....even Memtest gave the memory a clean chit.
Then finally one day, he removed the RAM, cleaned it , and put it back And that was the end of the issue

Haha thanks, But if the bios update works, give Shawn the best answer, so if anyone else has the same problem, They would know how you fixed it and who suggested it.

But I had this same issue before with my old Althlon XP 1500+, the ram would cause system instability, and freeze or BSOD every now and again, but memtest never once gave an error. Here I take the Ram out and clean the contacts with a pencil eraser, solved the problem right away.

 

[goldensun87]

*sigh*...No luck. After putting the Thuban back in, I got as far as my desktop background, and possibly about a minute later, the system crashed. And now, when I try to reboot, the OS does not even boot with the Thuban cpu installed. The power turns on, all 4 fans run at their standard speeds, but the OS does not boot. I am currently at work, using my laptop. It may boot when I get home about 4 hours later...but as long as the Thuban is in it, it will most likely crash again in no time and not boot again for a long time.

Could my cpu be defective after all? I assumed it was not defective for 2 reasons: 1) the one I currently have was a replacement, b/c Newegg will not refund, and 2) Each time I send back for a replacement, I have to pay for the shipping.

I know there is nothing wrong with my psu or gpu, b/c both run perfectly with the athlon cpu. And both the RAM slots and cartridges were cleared of dust recently, and once again, no problem with the athlon cpu.

Well, at least I can still try to get a replacement or maybe even a refund thanks to the manufacturer warranty. Btw, I was using the fan that initially came with my PC, b/c it was bigger and most likely better than the fan that came with the cpu. Most customers on Newegg who bought this cpu agreed that the provided heatsink/fan were horrible, I know firsthand that the fan is ridiculously loud. But I will try out that fan, simply b/c my warranty will be void if the provided fan appears to be obviously unused.

But before I try to get another replacement, any more possible suggestions as to what could be wrong?

 

[Viking2121]

I don't think its a bad CPU, But I mean wouldn't hurt to get another replacement. But I would try a few things 1st, try a different powersupply, or even try another video card.

It may not even be CPU related. Also did you use Thermal compound? Try to start up in Safe Mode and see if it does the same thing, if not I would play around with drivers starting with the video driver.

It could be a PowerSupply on the way out, and can't handle the load of the new CPU along with the 550Ti. If you take the Video card out and use onboard if you have it, and see if it will run for awhile without restarting.


Edit: I just looked into the specs a little more, looks like you have an ATI HD4200 onboard. Have you uninstalled all of the ATI Video drivers? Sometimes that can conflict and cause random reboots. Best why to make sure that the ATI drivers are gone is to use driver sweeper. I havn't used Driver sweeper in a long time so I can remember what you have to click on.

 

[goldensun87]

Well, my initial psu upgrade was an Antec 500W with just 80 Plus. A Best Buy employee suggested I try a psu with 80 Plus Bronze certification, which is precisely what I tried right before I started this thread. the bronze certified psu made no difference for me. It too was 500W (I put my Basiq Antec 500W psu back in). my gpu requires minimum 400W, so the gpu was the only thing I was going off of when I shopped for a psu. If a cpu's power load was also going to be a concern, then why aren't these things pointed out in the cpu's product descriptions? Is there anywhere online where I can find power supply requirements for multicore cpus?

If my 500W psu cannot handle both my gpu and my six-core cpu, then will getting more watts really help? Also, that doesn't explain why my computer is now refusing to boot with the thuban installed, b/c the psu should still be able to handle starting up the computer, no matter how many cores the cpu has. So far, the replacement has fared worse than the initial. At least the first one turned on many times before it eventually deteriorated to shutting off even while idle.

Yes, of course I used thermal paste. I used Arctic Cooling MX-4, with my initial fan/heatsink, not the piece of junk which came with the cpu. I swear, my 4 gram tube may just run out b/c of this nonsense.

Yes, I had uninstalled all my ATI Drivers. I have had absolutely no random reboots with the combination of the nvidia gpu and my original athlon cpu.

I'm pretty sure that by now, we have ruled out all possible causes, except for one: my motherboard's TDP limit. Could the thuban be going above 95W when the turbo core is kicking in? If so, can I disable the turbo core function in the BIOS? What other features could be possibly making the thuban go above 95W?

I'll hopefully be buying a new copy from Micro Center later today, perhaps this time the first thing I do will be to go into the BIOS and disable the turbo core, while I can...

 

[Viking2121]

Well, my initial psu upgrade was an Antec 500W with just 80 Plus. A Best Buy employee suggested I try a psu with 80 Plus Bronze certification, which is precisely what I tried right before I started this thread. the bronze certified psu made no difference for me. It too was 500W (I put my Basiq Antec 500W psu back in). my gpu requires minimum 400W, so the gpu was the only thing I was going off of when I shopped for a psu. If a cpu's power load was also going to be a concern, then why aren't these things pointed out in the cpu's product descriptions? Is there anywhere online where I can find power supply requirements for multicore cpus?

If my 500W psu cannot handle both my gpu and my six-core cpu, then will getting more watts really help? Also, that doesn't explain why my computer is now refusing to boot with the thuban installed, b/c the psu should still be able to handle starting up the computer, no matter how many cores the cpu has. So far, the replacement has fared worse than the initial. At least the first one turned on many times before it eventually deteriorated to shutting off even while idle.

Yes, of course I used thermal paste. I used Arctic Cooling MX-4, with my initial fan/heatsink, not the piece of junk which came with the cpu. I swear, my 4 gram tube may just run out b/c of this nonsense.

Yes, I had uninstalled all my ATI Drivers. I have had absolutely no random reboots with the combination of the nvidia gpu and my original athlon cpu.

I'm pretty sure that by now, we have ruled out all possible causes, except for one: my motherboard's TDP limit. Could the thuban be going above 95W when the turbo core is kicking in? If so, can I disable the turbo core function in the BIOS? What other features could be possibly making the thuban go above 95W?

I'll hopefully be buying a new copy from Micro Center later today, perhaps this time the first thing I do will be to go into the BIOS and disable the turbo core, while I can...

Will your 1045T is 95w TDP, even with Turbo Core enabled.

And Yeah a 500Watt is more than enough, and you really want to look at Amps on the 12v rail, but since its a 80 plus if should have more then enough to handle the GPU and CPU. But What I'm saying I had PSU's do just like what yours is doing, And here it turned out to be a leaking capacitor, so the my PSU was vary close to completely failing. Make sure that the 8 pin or 4 pin power to the motherboard is not loose, Had that happen before lol.

And the reason why I say take your 550Ti out of the computer is to just limit the problem and see if it will boot, don't even install the ati driver, just let it sit if you can. Rule that out.

Also as Shawn suggested, Try a bios update, Not to sure how HP does it, shouldn't be that hard. Might just not be using you 1045t right. And see if there is any option to manually turn off your on board video.

Also check on your Motherboard and see if there is any compactors that look like they have kinda increased in size, like the tops of them kinda bubbles out.

I don't blame ya for being frustrated, I would be as well, spending money on something and the system isn't working right with it.

 

[goldensun87]

Ok, so I don't exactly have a solution, but I may finally have a definite answer. I went to Micro Center today, and after several minutes of discussion between a max of 4 employees, they determined that my athlon cpu is an OEM, and apparently the motherboard will not..completely "agree" with any retail cpu I try to install. So, as long as I have this motherboard, possibly the only way to upgrade the cpu will be to contact HP and request them to prepare another OEM cpu of my choice. Well, at least I finally have peace of mind, and I will not be wasting time trying to get the cpu to work. But, it's not over yet...

 

[goldensun87]

...So, assuming that my Thuban cpu has not sustained any damage through all these attempts, will I finally be able to get it to work, if I change my motherboard? I do have a few concerns, though. I know that the psu and gpu will work without a hitch on a new motherboard, but what about my HDD and my optical dvd drive? What if one or both of them are OEM? Then there is also the front usb ports, my headphone jacks, and the various memory card slots in front. Also, I may need a discrete sound card if the new mobo doesn't have integrated audio, which I guess shouldn't be an issue. Hmmm...

 

[wr6133]

An item being OEM is irrelevent. From reading all this I am starting to think your motherboard is the issue (just by process of elimination) however an OEM part works no differently to a retail part those guys in the shop were talking out their arse. Ideally if you know anyone with an AM3 socket board test the CPU with them.

 

[$hawn]

what wr6133's saying is right.

Both OEM and Retail chips are made together on a same wafer!! there's absolutely no physical difference between the two, they are identical!!

Those guys sold u a bullshit story.....most shop guys usually do when they can't find a solution to a problem !!

 

[goldensun87]

Well, whether the HP hardware is OEM or Retail, all I know is that the upgrade I bought was supposed to work, and it has not worked properly at all. Bottom line is, HP has modified the motherboard, and likely the other parts as well, so that retail upgrades will not work properly on THEIR hardware.

In fact, I tried adding more RAM yesterday as well. I know this belongs in the RAM section, but this problem is pretty much related to my cpu problem, so I'm just gonna say it here. They were 2 4GB sticks, and I took out the 1GB stick that was in my mobo. In the initial installation, I stuck the two new sticks into slots 1 & 2. This resulted in my OS refusing to boot. So I put the two original 2GB sticks back into slots 1 & 2, and the 2 new sticks into 3 & 4. System turned on w/o a hitch. But of course, the smooth operation was short-lived. Soon, any program I tried to start, even a simple windows folder, were taking forever to start up. So, I immediately took out the new sticks and put my original 3 sticks back the way they were. Things seemed to be back to normal, but eventually the problem started again. So finally, I called my technician about 1 hour and 30 minutes ago. I first told him the situation about my HP hardware being "selective", and he agreed that it is very much a possibility. Then I told him the situation with my RAM, and he suggested that I defrag my hard drive. After defragging, I shut my desktop off for a while, and am currently on my laptop. I will be turning the desktop on soon, and I HOPE it will be the end of all this nonsense.


So, that is it, then. As long as I have this HP desktop, I will not be trying anymore upgrades. And the next desktop I buy will be fully custom-built. Honestly, after all this crap, it is a wonder that my GPU and PSU upgrades are working without a hitch.

But anyway, THANK YOU to everyone who tried to help. So, whose response should I select as best answer? xD

Edit: The RAM I bought was DDR3-1333, and according to my PC's memory upgrade info, YES, it SHOULD have worked on my system properly, but it did not. And the compatibility info on the package clearly states that these sticks "are guaranteed to support all dual channel DDR3-1333 platforms from Intel and AMD."

 

[wr6133]

With the amount of parts you have bought you might as well get a new motherboard you can snag an AM3+ board for $70-ish

 

[goldensun87]

With the amount of parts you have bought you might as well get a new motherboard you can snag an AM3+ board for $70-ish

Lol, yeah. Unfortunately, my RAM is still not working correctly . If I will not be able to solve this problem, I may just have to build a new desktop.

So let's see, I will probably have to buy a new case, b/c my current mobo is 9.6" x 9.6" , there is very little space between it and the other parts, and the new mobo I buy will most likely be a bigger rectangle. Oh well, I guess average cases are not that expensive. The heatsink/fan I have should run just fine on the new board. The RAM and CPU I have will hopefully work. The GPU will definitely work. What about front USB jacks, headphone jacks and memory card slots like SD and others? Will those come with the case? The system fan will come with the case, right? Optical drive will have to be BluRay Burner. Hard Drive will be traditional HDD, don't want to deal with the unstability of SSDs. That's about everything, right?

Just a couple more things. I do need to retrieve all the files that are on my current HDD. Preferably I would want to install my current HDD into the new system. But I'm afraid the HP issued HDD may give problems on a new system. I will try, but with the current state my current desktop is in, I may not be able to copy my current files onto an external HDD.... Also, if I installed my current HDD as is into a new system, would my current OS boot without a hitch?

 

[wr6133]

Current HDD, optical can be reused. You can even reuse the card reader. The OS will likely ask to be reactivated.... you will need to phone MS when it prompts and tell them your motherboard failed can you activate it on the replacement.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157305
ASRock 970DE3/U3S3 AM3+ AMD 770 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

Cheapish good motherboard there

As for cases just look at newegg depends what you want style/size/number of USB's etc theres options from $20 all the way to $100's

If you want cheap this is ok

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811822015
Diablotek CPA-8821 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower

If you can fork out a bit more something like this is nicer (has USB 3.0 better cooling etc)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066
Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower

Just examples though cases are really down to personal tastes just pick a budget for one and then find what you like with the most features in that pricepoint.

 

[Viking2121]

Yeah, its gotta be the board then, Once you get a new board, that 1045T should work like new. You might have to reinstall windows though coming from HP. I always had bad luck changing out motherboard to a better board on HP. But the HDD and cd/dvd drive will work with a new board, the case wont work with with some of the bigger boards.

 

[goldensun87]

Can I just use the Windows 7 Product Key that is on the sticker of my current HP case?