GTX 560 ti SLI vs GTX 580 (1080p)

[CryptorX]

Hi there...

I believe some of you are already tired of seeing comparisons between these two setups, i myself have seen a few but none of them fully satisfied me and the choice between these two also depends on our system. But i'll make it simple...

First the intended resolution is 1920x1080, i know that 2 560 ti's surpass a 580 by a good margin (i believe it is about 20% on average) and i can get two o those for 50€ less than a 580 (and im talking about pre clocked editions), so that would make this decision apparently simple, but first of all i am concerned about the 1GB vram i get with 2 560's, 1080 ain't exactly high definition in my book but add it some AA and i believe the 1GB will easily run out in some games, also, even though microstuttering ain't exactly a problem with SLI'ed 560 ti's (or greater gpu's), some games do tend to not take fully advantage of the two gpu's or none at all resulting in bad scalling, in optimal conditions i have seen 560 ti's scaling to near 100% performance when sli'ed but sometimes they barely can keep up with a 570.

My actual pc config can be seen on my profile... You will notice that i am upgrading from a 570, so before you'll start criticizing me about why not get a second one let me tell you that i am not getting a second one for two reasons.
1º My cpu will certainly bottleneck them.
2º My psu can't handle those so i would be needing a better one and i only by corsair's so a 850 or 1000w would set me back on more 200€ plus the 570, so it would be a 500€ upgrade.

And i don't believe my cpu will bottleneck neither the two 560 ti's or one 580... And i am sure my Psu will be able to handle both configs.

So what would you guys do?

I may even consider to upgrade later to a second 580 sli in case i take one now, i believe that if i do it then i will probably be able to go neck & neck with the best of the gtx600's for much less money in a year or so, instead of buying another high end graphics card from the future series.

As you can see, even though two 560 ti's out perform a 580 with ease i am leaning more towards a 580 at the moment, the EVGA GTX580 SC DS to be more specific (has the perfect cooler for sli in my opinion, and i want to keep that possibility), but i am really looking to hear your opinions since this is a considerable investment to me.

Thanks in advance

EDIT: I am not the type of guy that likes to ridiculously push settings on games just because i can, i do like ultra setting but things like huge amounts of AA ain't my style, my sweet spot is 1920x1080 4xAA so keep that in mind when considering the 1GB the 560's provide.

 

[vitornob]

Sincerely?
Sir, you're wrong.

1- By Nvidia own website:

Maximum Graphics Card Power (W)
GTX 470 - 215W
GTX 570 - 219W

Saying this they have the same power consumption.

2- By Nvidia SLIZONE website:
Corsair HX-750 PSU is SLI CERTIFIED for dual GTX 470

Since GTX 570 have the same power consumption, extrapolating the results means that you would be able to run SLI GTX 570.

 

[CryptorX]

Yes i know the psu can take it, barely but it can, but the cpu will definitely bottleneck them so i need a considerable OC, and with that OC the there is now way this psu can take it, i believe that it would require at least a 850w psu for that...

 

[CryptorX]

Also, i said that getting a better psu and a gtx 570 was out of question because of the 500€ investment, but you might question the fact that i am willing to spend 450€ on a 580, only 50€ less and i'd be getting a better psu but the thing is that i am actually willing to spend only 200€, the other 250€ i am going to get from selling my 570, i already have a friend interested in buying it for that price...

 

[vitornob]

1- About bottleneck

Yes, it might be some bottleneck, but this doesn't mean that it would be bad.

See, in a system there's ALWAYS a bottleneck.
The CPU or the VGAs are stronger than each other.
Impossible to have a perfect system

Getting a second GTX 570? Yes, bottleneck will happen. Do your system will get slower than using 1 GTX 570? No
You just won't be able to fully use the SLI GTX 570 potential, but this doesn't mean that your system would be slower.

IF, only IF, you had a weak cpu, like an old dual core, like Athlon X2 4000+, Core 2 duo E2xxx. Then I would say that the SLI would be slower due to cpu cycles been compromised to manage sli, so much that wouldn't be enough cpu power to process all basic tasks, and there's not so much left for the application in question.

2- About GTX 580
In reality I would get a GTX 580, SLI is a nice cost effective option, but I do prefer today a single card solution. Less heat, less noise, do not need to scale performance based in the application sli profile. Less cpu power hungry.

 

[bwrlane]

Hi,

Here's my 2 cents.

My setup is not dissimilar to yours, both in terms of CPU and due to the fact that I have experimented with various GPU options before settling on 2*560Ti.

First of all, I do not believe your CPU will bottleneck 2*570s. At stock clockspeed, yes, but bear the following in mind. At 2.66GHz stock speed, the i7 920 is substantially underclocked. Why? Simply so Intel could match a price point in its product hierarchy. Consequently, these chips are the most overclockable in history. So much so that I like to consider running it at 3.6-4GHz as "right clocking" (ie running at the speed the silicon is designed to be capable of) rather than overlocking. I run mine at 4GHz and it's simply set and forget. Easy as pie and I've not had to dive into my bios for ages.

(Note - on occasions when for some reason I've cleared cmos or flashed the bios, I've noticed games do run noticeably slower afterwards. After a bit of headscratching I remember that my cpu has defaulted back to stock so I just go back into the bios and overclock it again, problem solved. This is how I know that the CPU bottlenecks the system at stock).

However, after right clocking my CPU at 4GHz, it is easily fast enough for any game. My system is now GPU bound in most situations. I know this because I see strong performance variations when changing the graphics options (effects, AA, resolution etc).

If I were in your shoes, I would indeed upgrade my PSU, clock my 920 to 4GHz and add another 570. This would be both cheaper and more effective than buying a 580 or 2*560Ti. If for some reason you prefer not to overclock, then be aware that even with a 2*560Ti setup, your system will be CPU bound.

As for the 560 Ti SLI, that's what I have, so I'm in a reasonable position to offer my experience on how this performs. (Note, that I'm commenting on GPU bound scenarios only - ie when I've rightclocked my CPU to 4GHz).

In the VAST majority of situations, 2*560Ti will run the latest games at their very highest settings at 1080p, averaging 60-70fps and occasionally dropping to 40. In other words, plenty good enough.

There are some situations in which I have experienced choppiness, but this only happens in the most demanding games and even then, only occasionally. BF3 is one example, although this has been substantially alleviated following the latest patches/drivers. I do not know if the stutter was due to memory or computation power, but I suspect it's the former. For BF3 I now run everything maxed except AA, which I run at 2 times. It now runs fine.

It matters what the bottleneck is (ie memory or computation) because this affects the decision on 580 vs 2*560Ti but it's unfortunately a question on which I don't have an answer. However, it's worth mentioning that in one of the interviews with the developers of BF3, he mentioned that ultra settings are really only for SLI setups and 2*560Ti should be enough. If true, it suggests that while you may not be memory bottlenecked by a single 580, you may very well be computation bottlenecked, suggesting that 2*560Ti is still the superior option.

So in order of preference I'd say the following for your system:

Best option: upgrade your PSU, clock your CPU to 3.6-4GHz and get a second 570

Second best option: 2*560Ti (and clock your CPU to get the most out of it)

Third best option: 580. I don't think the third best option is particularly good though because it would be a lot of money for a relatively modest performance upgrade.

If you go for the second, then you have the same system as me, and I can tell you from personal experience, it's a proper powerhouse. My 11 year old son's gaming PC has an i5 2400 and a GTX295 and when he looks at a game on my PC his response is "whoa look at those graphics!"

 

[CryptorX]

vitornob Yes, you are probably right about the bottleneck, but i wouldn't resist getting another psu, since with a stock i7 920 and 2 570s, any OC to the cpu probably have a equally proportional impact on graphics performance (in my case i'd risk saying at least until 3.5~3.6ghz and that is about 30% more), especially on some games like Skyrim which are very CPU dependent.
So buying two 560 ti's or a 580 i can rest assured that at least i am getting not only full advantage of those cards but also full advantage of my money which is kinda short.

bwrlane Thanks for sharing your opinion, i know two 560 ti's completely out perform a 580 and that is why i haven't bought a 580 already and decided to create this thread but as vitornoob said there is also the advantage of less heat, power consumption and i don't need to depend on sli compatibilities and effectiveness which varies a lot from game to game, but when it comes to raw power, yes, the 560 ti's clearly wins this "contest" period. The thing is that a 580 is already more than enough and i can easily squeeze at least 10% more performance with a nice OC.

Also i do have an OC, i just said i couldn't OC my processor in case i got another 570 because my psu would be near his limits and with the OC i need to be able to take full advantage of two 570's with my i7 920 there is now way this psu can take it, though i have heard this psu can easily handle a 900w load and still get a 82% efficiency, but i think that is taking to much risks because i don't know if it's protection features like active PFC and others would still work properly and that kind of security is what i paid for when i spent 150€ on this psu, i could have bought a 900w LC Power Archangel for much less, but i sleep much better with this one on my pc, a nice psu to me is like a good firewall, but instead of protecting our girlfriends nude photos it protects our wallet.. .screw the photos :lol: ...... nahh just kidding about that last part

 

[CryptorX]

One more thing i'd like to add is that even though i am considering only two 560 ti's or a 580 feel free to give any other opinions, just keep in mind that i am not very fond of ati, i don't want to be unfair but judging from what i see and hear their cards are quite good and have an impressive potential but their drivers are a complete mess, especially if you crossfire... not to mention the delays in releasing drivers for cf profiles, BF3 is a nice example amongst many others. But i like their cards, i was once a great ATI fan, but it was only until i started seeing cards like GTX 275 with 633Mhz gpu, 2200mhz vram and 896MB ddr3 out performing my 4870 with a 850mhz gpu, 3800mhz ram and 1GB DDR5... then i started looking the other way...

 

[Warmacblu]

Is the GTX 570 not performing like you would like? In my opinion, "upgrading" to 2 GTX 560 Ti's is really a downgrade from a single GTX 570. If I were in your situation then I would save up some more money until you can upgrade your power supply and add another GTX 570.

 

[CryptorX]

Is the GTX 570 not performing like you would like? In my opinion, "upgrading" to 2 GTX 560 Ti's is really a downgrade from a single GTX 570. If I were in your situation then I would save up some more money until you can upgrade your power supply and add another GTX 570.

I'd be lying if i said i was disappointed but in Skyrim (on ultra, 1920x1080, 2xAA, 16xAF) i have seen it going bellow 30 fps in some instances and to me 30fps+ is the sweet spot, any extra boost will get me there, maybe even using a physicx card (like a 50€ 8800gt), but i always like to one step ahead when i can, even not being the smartest choice sometimes, and i believe that either a 580 or two 560 ti's will put me a step ahead for the time being.

I somehow understand what you mean when you say it is a downgrade but only if you are referring to upgrade potential, because when it comes to performance two 560 ti's leaves a gtx 570 eating dust and sometimes even a 580 joins the 570 in the rear view mirror.

If i end up getting a 580 i will consider upgrading to another, but only after upgrading to a sandy bridge platform, otherwise i will surely bottleneck two 580 a whole lot, if a i7 920 can't even take fully advantage of two 570's i can only imagine what it would do to two 580's, i am not even going to google it because i am afraid of what i might find... I believe that even a i7 2600k might need a little OC to unlock the full power of two 580's...

Anyway... i will be getting a new psu anyway, just not now...

 

[vitornob]

I'd be lying if i said i was disappointed but in Skyrim (on ultra, 1920x1080, 2xAA, 16xAF) i have seen it going bellow 30 fps in some instances and to me 30fps+ is the sweet spot, any extra boost will get me there, maybe even using a physicx card (like a 50€ 8800gt), but i always like to one step ahead when i can, even not being the smartest choice sometimes, and i believe that either a 580 or two 560 ti's will put me a step ahead for the time being.

I somehow understand what you mean when you say it is a downgrade but only if you are referring to upgrade potential, because when it comes to performance two 560 ti's leaves a gtx 570 eating dust and sometimes even a 580 joins the 570 in the rear view mirror.

If i end up getting a 580 i will consider upgrading to another, but only after upgrading to a sandy bridge platform, otherwise i will surely bottleneck two 580 a whole lot, if a i7 920 can't even take fully advantage of two 570's i can only imagine what it would do to two 580's, i am not even going to google it because i am afraid of what i might find... I believe that even a i7 2600k might need a little OC to unlock the full power of two 580's...

Anyway... i will be getting a new psu anyway, just not now...

Well, even my SLI GTX 460 gets sometimes closer or even pass the GTX 580, SLI GTX 560 Ti should destroy it.
But sincerely?
Just checked GTX 580 have some gains, but they're minimum in my opinion, isn't a game change
Link: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/305?vs=306

For now you should OC your CPU as HELL (as per this benchmark: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/skyrim-performance-benchmark,3074-9.html), and remove AA in Skyrim, it should do the trick

And per this link: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/skyrim-performance-benchmark,3074-6.html
a 2500k @4ghz with a GTX 570 (same as yours), 1080p, ultra, 16x AF and 4x AA gives 43 min fps

By the same link, the editor says that GTX 570 SLI is bottlenecked even with the 2500k @4ghz (cause this game is very cpu bottlenecked!)

Have you ever considered a CPU upgrade?!

EDIT: Sadly I didn't buy the game so I can't do benchs for you

 

[CryptorX]

Yes, i have considered upgrading, actually, i was considering upgrading a few weeks ago, the same guy that is going to buy my gtx570 also offered me 400€ for my cpu + cooler, ram and board and i was going to put 100~200€ on top of it to upgrade to a sandy bridge, 100€ for a 2500k or 200€ for the 2600K, the rest would have gone to a decent P67 board, a nice cooler and a good ram kit.
But has you can see here most of the replies weren't very encouraging, and in that same topic i convinced myself that the best thing to do was to upgrade my graphics card. And here am i...

 

[Warmacblu]

I'd be lying if i said i was disappointed but in Skyrim (on ultra, 1920x1080, 2xAA, 16xAF) i have seen it going bellow 30 fps in some instances and to me 30fps+ is the sweet spot, any extra boost will get me there, maybe even using a physicx card (like a 50€ 8800gt), but i always like to one step ahead when i can, even not being the smartest choice sometimes, and i believe that either a 580 or two 560 ti's will put me a step ahead for the time being.

I somehow understand what you mean when you say it is a downgrade but only if you are referring to upgrade potential, because when it comes to performance two 560 ti's leaves a gtx 570 eating dust and sometimes even a 580 joins the 570 in the rear view mirror.

If i end up getting a 580 i will consider upgrading to another, but only after upgrading to a sandy bridge platform, otherwise i will surely bottleneck two 580 a whole lot, if a i7 920 can't even take fully advantage of two 570's i can only imagine what it would do to two 580's, i am not even going to google it because i am afraid of what i might find... I believe that even a i7 2600k might need a little OC to unlock the full power of two 580's...

Anyway... i will be getting a new psu anyway, just not now...

Hm ... my GTX 275 at the same settings except FXAA on and no AA never dips below 30 at 1920x1080. A physics card won't help in this game and I agree with everyone else saying that upgrading your CPU is useless. I also have an i7-920 that is not overclocked but I am happy with the stock performance. When I upgrade to a GTX 580, I may consider overclocking it but I do not foresee me needing to. A overclocked i7-920 can take full advantage of 2 GTX 570 / 580's and they will run faster on the X58 platform (in theory). All you need to do is purchase a nice power supply, say a Corsair 850-1000 watt and another GTX 570, then you'll be set for years.

 

[NeutralEnergy]

Alright so... You're really, really underestimating your power supply... It's 80 plus silver certified and I know that you won't believe me so I'll give some proof but... A decked out system with a two-way sli with a pair of GTX 580s!!!... Will pull about 525 watts from the wall... AT FULL LOAD. Here's the proof. Go to YouTube and search- System Power Consumption A Closer Look NCIX TechTips. Pick the first result and watch the WHOLE thing.

My advise- go with getting an extra gtx 570 and ONLY that. Worry about upgrading your psu when the time comes but I can tell you this- now isn't that time.

Hope you follow my advice (oh and btw oc you CPU to 4 GHz, each 0.1 GHz OC is only 1w extra from the wall so it'll only be about 15w extra... Do it). Also, by "from the wall" I mean that this is all the watts INCLUDING the watts wasted by efficiency. With your CPU OCed and a pair of gtx 570s in sli (don't forget to OC them too ) I'm guessing you'll b pulling about 600-625w from the wall on full load. Hope you follow my advice and, if you do, have fun with a beastly rig. Byee!

 

[NeutralEnergy]

I meant to say 500-525w... If that.