The Real Reason for the "Prerender" Bullshit Campaign

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The real reason the xflop fanfairies have siezed on spreading the
"prerender" bullshit is that everybody can see the xflop 1.5 full
circle graphics are only slightly better than this generation rather
than being next generation, and that the visuals for the PS3 are 2 to 3
times better than the xflop 1.5 full circle. So, since the xflop 1.5
full circle graphics are so obviously inferior to the PS3, then the
only "reason" can be that the PS3 footage is all "prerendered".
It is particularly humorous and the height of irony that the xflop
fanfairies have made such a monumental issue out of this misconstrued
perception. It has been the xflop fanfairies that have been the biggest
graphics ho's and yet they almost universally demonstrate this peculiar
inability to distinguish the difference between software rendered
cinematics, software rendered computer graphics, real-time game engine
cutscenes and real-time game engine in-game scenes. There must be a
reason for this strange contradiction in perceptions, on one-hand
idolizing graphics and on the other hand, being unable to distinguish
the differences in the sources and creation of those graphics.
Something else that is becoming very obvious and commented on in many
places is that the game action on the xflop 1.5 full circle is very
stuttery. It is turning out that the majority of the "launch window"
games are locked at 30fps: Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero, Oblivion, Project
Gotham Racing 3, Ghost Recon, Quake 4, several others. This is only on
the xflop 1.5 full circle, not on the PC for those games that are
actually PC games like Oblivion, Quake 4 and Ghost Recon (which will be
out on the PC well before the xflop 1.5 full circle port). Of course, a
lot of people will argue that 30fps is all that is needed, that nobody
can see beyond that. True, not individual frames but the overall
effect of only 30fps is jittery overall action and screens. Even most
PS2 games are at least 60fps. It is also turning out the xflop 1.5 full
circle games will initially be running on only one processor, making
their performance about the same as a medium end PC. This probably
explains why the frame rate is being locked to 30fps. The xflop 1.5
full circle is very close to being obsolete soon after it launches.
 
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KillzoneBigNuts2 wrote:

> I find it very amusing myself. And typical.

Wow, you and Bligmerk are soulmates. And I couldn't get through half of
either of your War and Peace-length rants, apropos of absolutely nothing,
without my eyes glazing over.

You what's even more amusing? That you and your lover are this obsessed with
a toy. A toy that plays video games. Seriously, say that to yourself: "I go
on the Internet to argue with people because I am both obsessed with and
threatened by a toy that plays video games." The two of you must lead very
rich and rewarding lives, and I imagine women find it fascinating when you
talk to them about pixel fillrates in Jak 3.

-Z-
 
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Yeah, they both live in Bizarro World where this:

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/ratchetclankiii/screens.html?page=80

Looks better than this?

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/crimsonskieshighroadtr/screens.html?page=126

Or this:

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/ratchetclankiii/screens.html?page=78

Looks better than this?

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/sudeki/screens.html?page=118

and let's not forget this:

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/jakanddaxteriii/screens.html?page=36

and this

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/jakanddaxteriii/screens.html?page=35

(Man, it's hard to find actual GAMEPLAY shots of Jak... is it all
cinemas?)

looking better than this?

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/fablethelostchapters/screens.html?page=77

and this?

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/fablethelostchapters/screens.html?page=53

And while they didn't mention it... who can forget this:

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/godofwar/screens.html?page=86

and this:

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/godofwar/screens.html?page=117

which is supposed to look better than this:

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/ninjagaiden/screens.html?page=363

and this:

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/ninjagaiden/screens.html?page=333

I can't tell if it's willfull delusion or just simple lack of
experience. I suppose there could be some biological component as
well... They might need glasses or something.

- Jordan

Xbox games without graphic equal on the PS2 (I'm sure there are more,
these are just from my personal collection):

Halo: Combat Evolved
Halo 2
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
Jade Empire
Project Gotham Racing
Project Gotham Racing 2
Ninja Gaiden
Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge
The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher Bay
Doom 3
JSRF: Jet Set Radio Future
Steel Battalion
Fable
Full Spectrum Warrior
Thief: Deadly Shadows
Enclave
 
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"Blig Merk" <blig_murk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1127083653.405340.149410@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> The real reason the xflop fanfairies have siezed on spreading the
> "prerender" bullshit is that everybody can see the xflop 1.5 full
> circle graphics are only slightly better than this generation rather
> than being next generation, and that the visuals for the PS3 are 2 to 3

Pure speculation like the rest of your post. By the way, what's the "real
reason" for your bullshit campaign on here?
 
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In article <jimXe.92920$Ph4.2934750@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>,
masters@universe.ga says...
>
>"Blig Merk" <blig_murk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1127083653.405340.149410@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> The real reason the xflop fanfairies have siezed on spreading the
>> "prerender" bullshit is that everybody can see the xflop 1.5 full
>> circle graphics are only slightly better than this generation rather
>> than being next generation, and that the visuals for the PS3 are 2 to 3
>
>Pure speculation like the rest of your post. By the way, what's the "real
>reason" for your bullshit campaign on here?
>
>
LOL!!!
 
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Jordan wrote:




Nice job posting shitty gamespot captures against good xbox captures.

I'm not argueing about which console has the best image quality.
I'm talking about fillrate and framebuffer effects.

There is a big difference between the two.
Zoe2 is a good example of particle effects.

Go find an Xbox game with 100's of enemies on screen, 100s of light and
smoke trails, and thousands upon thousands of snow particles. The game
also needs to run at 60FPS the majority of the time and be able to
render about 100 explosions on screen at once too.

Jeez, Retards are so hard to please.
 
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Jordan wrote:

> Halo: Combat Evolved
> Halo 2
> Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
> Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
> Jade Empire
> Project Gotham Racing
> Project Gotham Racing 2
> Ninja Gaiden
> Crimson Skies: High Road to Revenge
> The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher Bay
> Doom 3
> JSRF: Jet Set Radio Future
> Steel Battalion
> Fable
> Full Spectrum Warrior
> Thief: Deadly Shadows
> Enclave


None of these games even have particle or framebuffer effects.

Most of the ones you posted are making heavy use of textureing.
 
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KillzoneBigNuts2 wrote:

> Go find an Xbox game with 100's of enemies on screen, 100s of light
> and smoke trails, and thousands upon thousands of snow particles. The
> game also needs to run at 60FPS the majority of the time and be able
> to render about 100 explosions on screen at once too.

Go find a game on the latest Alienware rig that meets that criteria! I sure
as hell hope you're not suggesting the PS2 would have a prayer of pulling
such a thing off any more than the Xbox would. Or are you from the future
and you own a PS3?

TEH PS2 RULZORZ CUZ IT DOES TEH PATRIKAL EFFEX AND ALSO IT MAKES A A COOL
SOUNDE WHEN U TURN IT ON!!!!111

You've lost all perspective along with your credibility. Not that you had
much of either to start with.

> Jeez, Retards are so hard to please.

You certainly are.

-Z-
 
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Tell you what... go over to Gamespot and pull some gameplay screens
yourself. Go on... Try to find a single PS2 gameplay screen that looks
as good as this:

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2002/xbox/enclave/enclave1_screen001.jpg
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/enclave/screens.html?page=151

I'm even making it easy on you... That Xbox game is three years old.
Surely there is something on the PS2 in the last three years that looks
better, right?

- Jordan
 
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Hmmm... I think I see what you're trying to say but I think you've come
to the wrong conclusion... The reason Xbox games aren't all "sparkly"
is due to the nature of the audience. I know games like that really
appeal to a Japanese audience, always have. To say that the Xbox
doesn't have them because it can't generate them is disingenuous.

Phantom Dust is heavy with particle effects:

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/phantomdust/screens.html?page=45

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/phantomdust/screens.html?page=46

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/phantomdust/screens.html?page=34

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/phantomdust/screens.html?page=19

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/phantomdust/screens.html?page=16

Sudeki was big on it too IIRC...

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/sudeki/screens.html?page=149

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/sudeki/screens.html?page=131

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/sudeki/screens.html?page=92

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/sudeki/screens.html?page=12

Is it just co-incidence that these are the most Japanese of the Xbox
offerings?

- Jordan
 
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> Phantom Dust is heavy with particle effects:
>
> http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/phantomdust/screens.html?page=45
>
> http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/phantomdust/screens.html?page=46
>
> http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/phantomdust/screens.html?page=34
>
> http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/phantomdust/screens.html?page=19
>
> http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/phantomdust/screens.html?page=16
>
> Sudeki was big on it too IIRC...
>
> http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/sudeki/screens.html?page=149
>
> http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/sudeki/screens.html?page=131
>
> http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/sudeki/screens.html?page=92
>
> http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/rpg/sudeki/screens.html?page=12
>
> Is it just co-incidence that these are the most Japanese of the Xbox
> offerings?
>
> - Jordan


That can't be right, Killzone knows what he's talking about. He couldn't
have spent all those years in his mothers basement and all these years
without a girlfriend for nothing. These must be touched up pictures. I'll be
waiting for the announcement from gamespot that these are fakes.
 
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OK, at least you are making an attempt to make sense now. Thank you for
that.

I'm trying to think of Xbox games that have water effects, and would be
representative of what you're looking for, but the only one that comes
to mind is a near launch title (2001) I never played.

Transworld Surf:

Water transparancies:
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/sports/transworldsurf/screens.html?page=38

Particles:
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/sports/transworldsurf/screens.html?page=41
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/sports/transworldsurf/screens.html?page=40

Particles and reflections:
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/sports/transworldsurf/screens.html?page=32

When it comes to lighting and self shadowing the prime example that
comes to my mind are the Splinter Cell games.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/pandoratomorrow/screens.html?page=126
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/splintercell/screens.html?page=167

Now that I think about it though, Prince of Persia: SoT did a bang up
job in pretty much every respect (highly under-rated game on all
systems.)

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/princeofpersiathesot/screens.html?page=112
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/princeofpersiathesot/screens.html?page=111
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/princeofpersiathesot/screens.html?page=107
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/princeofpersiathesot/screens.html?page=105
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/princeofpersiathesot/screens.html?page=95
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/princeofpersiathesot/screens.html?page=94
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/princeofpersiathesot/screens.html?page=6

http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/popSandsTime_063003_02.jpg
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/popSandsTime_063003_01.jpg
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/popSandsTime_063003_07.jpg
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/popSandsTimeEvo_phase4.jpg
http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/prince_050903_01.jpg

- Jordan
 
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Zackman wrote:

> While any sane person looks at these games and says "amazing
> visuals!" you're looking only at one particular effect that is meaningless
> in the big picture.

The big picture is that MGS2 had massive slowdown on the Xbox.
Zoe2 can't be done on the Xbox.
Burnout Revenge, while it had better image quality than Ps2, had it's
effects scaled back fromt the PS2 version.

Ever wonder why Silent Hill 3 was never ported to Xbox?
Yep, framebuffer bandwidth.

The moving multilayered textures were done on the framebuffer.
It's a technique called "splatting" and while that technique can be done
on the Xbox it can't be done at that level and still allow for the
complex lighting used in SH3.
 
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Jordan wrote:

> Tell you what... go over to Gamespot and pull some gameplay screens
> yourself. Go on... Try to find a single PS2 gameplay screen that looks
> as good as this:
>
> http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2002/xbox/enclave/enclave1_screen001.jpg
> http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/enclave/screens.html?page=151
>
> I'm even making it easy on you... That Xbox game is three years old.
> Surely there is something on the PS2 in the last three years that looks
> better, right?
>
> - Jordan
>


Again I'm not argueing about which games looks better than another game.
That's all personal preference. IMO, God of War shits all over that game
like an American who just ate at Taco Bell for breakfast.

My point is, there are no particle and framebuffer effects in that game
you just posted.
 
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Jordan wrote:

> Tell you what... go over to Gamespot and pull some gameplay screens
> yourself. Go on... Try to find a single PS2 gameplay screen that looks
> as good as this:
>
> http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2002/xbox/enclave/enclave1_screen001.jpg
> http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/enclave/screens.html?page=151
>
> I'm even making it easy on you... That Xbox game is three years old.
> Surely there is something on the PS2 in the last three years that looks
> better, right?
>
> - Jordan
>

OK, I'll try and make another example of what I'm talking about.
Transparencies are framebuffer effects.

Check out this shot of MGS3.
Notice the transparency of the water, notice the high level of complex
geometry in the character and in the mountains beyond him. Also, try to
keep in mind that the lighting is realtime and the water is filled with
hundreds of fish that swim around, and the water splashes up water
droplet particles and ripples as you move throught it. Not only that,
but each ripple creates even more complex transparancy effects by
bending the refracting the light so everything under the water is
refracted.

http://www.flk.be/piclib/ressources/pictures/MGS_gd_1b.jpg
 
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Look more fur in Soul Calibur 3.
http://www.aqwaqwa.com/SoulCalibur/Siegfried/IMAGES/007.jpg
http://www.aqwaqwa.com/SoulCalibur/Siegfried/IMAGES/038.jpg

I bet you don't even realize there is no self shadding in DOAU, yet even
Tekken 5 has that. Soul Calibur III not only has seld shadding
characters, but characters even project shadows on each other.
http://www.aqwaqwa.com/SoulCalibur/Siegfried/IMAGES/045.jpg


Sorry for the blurry shots, they are from a preview build that was
captured and deinterlaced with a shitty composite connection.
 
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