Using Flash With Umbrellas

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Russell wrote:
>
> I would like to take some amateur shots indoors (close range), using flash,
> but want soft lighting. Therefore, I am thinking of using an umbrella to
> soften the flash.
>
> The question is, do I use dedicated hotshoe flash(s) firing into an
> umbrella, or buy low-end studio flash units?
>
> Is there much of an advantage of low-end studio flashes over dedicated
> hotshoe flashes?

They both have advantages. And disadvantages.

A dedicated flash may give you convenience, in the form of automated TTL
flash metering. And it will be, generally, cheaper. You can use it in
other situations as a regular shoe mount flash. But it's not very
powerful, and less expensive hot shoe/umbrella mounting hardware tends
to be weak and cheaply made.

Studio flashes will give you lots of power, but you'll need to control
that power completely manually, which means you'll need a flash meter.
And heavier light stands. You'll also have the ability, thanks to the
extra power, to use more diffusion for softer lighting.

Which is better depends on a variety of factors, not least of which is
what you are planning to photograph.

Lisa

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

It gets worse. The watt/seconds rating of a given brand may not be
directly comparable to that of another brand, due to the proverbial
variety of factors. Buying studio lighting of any level is far more
complicated than dedicated flashes.

So what are you photographing?

Lisa

Russell wrote:
>
> Hey Lisa
>
> Thank you for your post.
>
> I agree with you that a dedicated flash is more convenient. Cheaper, I
> don't know. Canon 550EX and 580 EX flashes are not cheaper than low-end
> studio flashes, but like you say, they can be used for other situations.
>
> Power is a nightmare when it comes to comparisons, because dedicated flashes
> state guide numbers, where-as studio flashes state wattage!
>
> "Lisa Horton" <Lisa0205@lisahorton.net> wrote in message
> news:42961AAF.1AC8C98C@lisahorton.net...
> >
> >
> > They both have advantages. And disadvantages.
> >
> > A dedicated flash may give you convenience, in the form of automated TTL
> > flash metering. And it will be, generally, cheaper. You can use it in
> > other situations as a regular shoe mount flash. But it's not very
> > powerful, and less expensive hot shoe/umbrella mounting hardware tends
> > to be weak and cheaply made.
> >
> > Studio flashes will give you lots of power, but you'll need to control
> > that power completely manually, which means you'll need a flash meter.
> > And heavier light stands. You'll also have the ability, thanks to the
> > extra power, to use more diffusion for softer lighting.
> >
> > Which is better depends on a variety of factors, not least of which is
> > what you are planning to photograph.
> >
> > Lisa

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Russell" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:VeqdnUhJm-WGkAvfRVnyjw@pipex.net...
>I would like to take some amateur shots indoors (close range), using flash,
> but want soft lighting. Therefore, I am thinking of using an umbrella to
> soften the flash.
>
> The question is, do I use dedicated hotshoe flash(s) firing into an
> umbrella, or buy low-end studio flash units?
>
> Is there much of an advantage of low-end studio flashes over dedicated
> hotshoe flashes?
>
>

Hi there.

As has been said it very much depends on what you want to photograph, or
rather how large it is.

You will need 1 Dedicated or TTL Flash for non studio work.

I have read up Nikon SB800 and SB600s multi flash capabilities, and use a
SB600 on my D70, but still believe in Manual control for Studio work.

I do portrait work in my Studio, otherwise known as my Lounge. I also have
2 Vivitar 283s, plus a couple of smaller, hotshoe guns. And I have 1
Courtney 1000 Solaflash Studio Flash, a Flashmeter and a variety of
lighting stands and old tripods.

The output from the Studio Flash is not much greater than the 283s, when
measured, but in use it seems to be produce a lot bigger "Volume" of light.

I do not mount any of them on the camera, and the one nearest the camera is
controlled by a long cord, the others fire by Slave. They are all used on
Manual, and the lighting balance is compared by checking them individually
with the meter. I have got to know the equipment so well that, that I only
need to do this once before starting, but I do check the overall lighting
frequently during the session.

I tend to use the Studio flash as the main light, firing into a silver
brolly. I use one of the 283s at half power firing through a white brolly
as the Fill light. I have rigged up a spotlight bulb to act as a Modelling
Lamp for this. The others get used as an when I need them.

I have found that when I want a "Hard Light" I can use the 283s without
brollys, the Solaflash can not provide as "Hard" a light. The 283s are
easily softened via brollys, sometimes plus a diffuser on the flash window.

If you are planning on using more than one Flash, I would advocate the
purchase of a Flashmeter. The On Camera Histogram is no use for calculating
ratios.

The Studio Flash with its built in Modelling Lamp, ease of use, built in
slaves, variable power, extremely rapid recharge time is very convenient.
And it creates the impression that you are a serious photographer, which can
be an important factor to a model. But hotshoe flashes, with a reasonable
output, even manual only cheapos, will do nearly as well when mounted on
stands, and fitted with slaves.

Roy G

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

On 27/5/05 12:04 am, in article dCsle.210$f%4.44@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net, "Roy"
<royphoty@iona-guesthouse.co.uk> wrote:

> "Russell" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:VeqdnUhJm-WGkAvfRVnyjw@pipex.net...
>> I would like to take some amateur shots indoors (close range), using flash,
>> but want soft lighting. Therefore, I am thinking of using an umbrella to
>> soften the flash.
>>
>> The question is, do I use dedicated hotshoe flash(s) firing into an
>> umbrella, or buy low-end studio flash units?
>>
>> Is there much of an advantage of low-end studio flashes over dedicated
>> hotshoe flashes?

Whether it's dedicated or studio flash you'll need an umbrella. You may as
well just get it now and try it out. If it doesn't work, get a studio flash.

The advantage of studio flash is the amount of light control you get with
different accessories. I use Elinchrom myself but Bowens are very good too.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Folks

what is the advantage of flash over full time lights (apart from the heat
factor)? I would have thought that a good set up of lights is easier to
use, meter etc and you can see the effect continually as you adjust the
light as opposed to having to set the modelling light off on your studio
flash. I have taken some very good shots using some low cost lighting from
the local hardware. Have been thinking of upgrading to flash but to date
haven't had anyone outline its benefit over fixed light for studio work.
Look forward to some thought provoking posts.

regards

Don from Down Under

"wilt" <wiltw@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1117153122.952361.97690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Don't forget that your dedicated flash unit needs to have a head which
> can be tilted/swiveled to point at the umbrella while relying upon
> in-camera TTL flash output control, or while leaving the flash sensor
> of the flash pointed at the subject.
> This may be an obvious point for many, but it seems that fewer digital
> shooters understand the basic priciples of use of photographic
> equipment and need more hand holding in regard to basics (e.g. how many
> digital photographers truly understand the use of Guide Numbers or have
> heard the term?)
>
> --Wilton
>

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Paul
thanks for your comments but as I shoot RAW Digital, things such as colour
balance etc don't seem to be an issue
regards
Don from Down Under

"Paul Rubin" <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message
news:7xsm09z07r.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com...
> "Don" <mackie.don@bigpond.com> writes:
>> what is the advantage of flash over full time lights (apart from the heat
>> factor)?
>
> Heat is significant, also color balance, and being able to adjust the
> amount of exposure. It's easy to adjust a flash to be 1 stop up or
> down (within the power limits). You can't do that with a hotlamp
> except by either moving the light around (changes the lighting
> pattern) or using a dimmer (messes up the color balance).

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Is it me, or is it starting to get complicated figuring out the best way to
use a dedicated unit as a studio light? It might work out cheaper, but at
what cost in flexibility, ease of use and time? If it's just for occasional
use then it's a good idea. Though if it's to be used on a regular basis, it
would be far better to get a cheap monobloc or two and concentrate on the
photography itself rather than the logistics of it all. At least it will
save you from picking your up brains after they keep falling out. ;]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"wilt" <wiltw@aol.com> wrote:

>This may be an obvious point for many, but it seems that fewer digital
>shooters understand the basic priciples of use of photographic
>equipment and need more hand holding in regard to basics (e.g. how many
>digital photographers truly understand the use of Guide Numbers or have
>heard the term?)


Why on earth use Guide Numbers when you can meter flash?

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Russell" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:VeqdnUhJm-WGkAvfRVnyjw@pipex.net...

I would like to take some amateur shots indoors (close range), using flash,
but want soft lighting. Therefore, I am thinking of using an umbrella to
soften the flash.

Works fine. The reflector type (white inside) lose more light than the
"shoot through" white ones (about a stop difference). The larger the
better. The advantage of the reflector type is there is more control of
stray light (less chance of flare). If you use the shoot through type,
make sure there is no direct path from it to your lens. (A blocker
("gobo" ) near the lens is enough to control this in most cases)

The question is, do I use dedicated hotshoe flash(s) firing into an
umbrella, or buy low-end studio flash units?

Is there much of an advantage of low-end studio flashes over dedicated
hotshoe flashes?

A low end studio flash (160 - 200 W-s) is only marginally more powerful
than a 55 GN accessory flash. If you do a lot of home studio work, then
the eventual purchase should be in mind as it's simply easier to use
studio strobes in most cases than camera flashes for portraits and still
life.

A single umbrella and flash, and maybe a reflector (large sheet of white
cardboard or foam core is good) on the other side to lighten up the
shaddows will produce much nicer photos than a flash straight on.

If you have two flashes and another umbrella, set one up close to the
camera as a fill light, straight at the subject, but 1 to 2 stops below
exposure (eg: if you're exposing for f/5.6, set the fill at f/8 to f/11.
Set your main light at f/5.6 and you'll get a nicely filled shot. The
greater the difference between the two, the more contasty the effect.

If you have TTL flash it will work well; if you have an incident flash
meter then it will work well and consistently.

You can also get low cost AC strobes for about $40 - $50 which can be
used to light the background or provide rim/hairlighting. To do this,
an incident meter is essential.

Cheers,
Alan.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Don" <mackie.don@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:Zvyle.2415$BR4.1240@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Folks
>
> what is the advantage of flash over full time lights (apart from the heat
> factor)? I would have thought that a good set up of lights is easier to
> use, meter etc and you can see the effect continually as you adjust the >
light as opposed to having to set the modelling light off on your studio
> flash.

I'm just wondering from your phrasing of this if you are imagining that the
modelling light on a studio strobe is like the so-called 'modelling light'
on a lot of TTL guns? Studio strobes don't do that momentary burst of low
power pulses from the flash tube that is the nearest TTL guns get to a
modelling lamp: they have a separate, real, bulb that provides a continous
modelling light.

They can usually be set to full power or to vary in line with adjustments to
the power of the flash. Sometimes there's an option to have them dim while
the strobes recharge, so you have a visual indication when you're ready for
the next shot. Such lamps can be pretty powerful: my lowest power ones are
100W bulbs, but are much brighter than a domestic 100W, while the modelling
lamp in my twin tube 8kJ head is a 650W halogen - they give a pretty good
idea of the lighting effect.

You still need a meter to set lighting ratia though, of course, partly
because the modelling lamps cannot always all be in exact proportion to the
power of each head, and partly because the eye is so much less affected by
brightness differences (because it can compensate) than film is.


Peter

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

<<Why on earth use Guide Numbers when you can meter flash? >>

You assume that the digital photographer knows what a flashmeter is,
and owns one.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

I use my flash with an umbrella whenever I need to take pictures outside on
a rainy night......

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

teflon wrote:

> Is it me, or is it starting to get complicated figuring out the best way to
> use a dedicated unit as a studio light? It might work out cheaper, but at
> what cost in flexibility, ease of use and time? If it's just for occasional
> use then it's a good idea. Though if it's to be used on a regular basis, it
> would be far better to get a cheap monobloc or two and concentrate on the
> photography itself rather than the logistics of it all. At least it will
> save you from picking your up brains after they keep falling out. ;]

However you strobe light, it's not _that_ hard to do. Monolights have
their advantages and so do pack lights. As long as you have an incident
flash meter, it's fairly straight forward.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.