AMD Radeon HD 7000 Series: complete discussion

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Message edited by Mousemonkey on 03-15-2012 at 08:54:37 PM

Reply to malmental

TSMC and Global Foundries will be the Manufacturers of AMD HD 7000 series GPUs

TSMC and Global Foundries will be responsible for the manufacture of these new chips, though it is unclear which of them will manufacture models of low, medium or high ranges, although it could presumably TSMC will manufacture high-end chips ( and perhaps the mid-range), and Global Foundries may be responsible for manufacturing the low-end chips, which is not unreasonable. Considering that currently it is responsible for making the APU Llano, and they incorporate an IGP based on Radeon HD 6000 (VLIW-5D).

Nvidia Kepler vs AMD Radeon HD 7000 series

Using a 28nm manufacturing process means that the new Radeon HD 7000 series cards will have a lower consumption and higher operating frequencies margin, i.e., yield will be more even if they share the same design as the previous generation. But improvement is also expected in terms of the new architecture, so it will be an improvement for two reasons. Nvidia Kepler is no less than AMD Radeon HD 7000 series, as Nvidia has said that Kepler will be much faster than Fermi (with almost 2X performance).

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Message edited by malmental on 12-17-2011 at 06:35:43 PM

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Reply to malmental

http://semiaccurate.com/2011/12/16 [...] -rebrands/

The offerings span four families, with model numbers ranging from 7300 to 7600. In short, HD 7350 will be Cedar, HD 7450 will be Caicos, HD 7570 will be Turks Pro and HD 7670 will be Turks XT. All of these GPUs will be made on TSMC 40 nm process, no surprises there. For the sake of brevity and readability, we are not going post the specifications for yet again, as they are literally the same.
----------------

“Why rebrands instead of a new ASIC?” This would probably be the first question that pops up after reading the last paragraph. If we look at the overall desktop APU and GPU strategies, it looks like AMD is trying to solve the manufacturing and financial issues in one shot.

----------------

" Re-branding itself is not evil, unless it is meant to create customer confusion and hidden from public documentation. The distinction would be the difference between retail and OEMs being offered a re-brand. It would seem to be less evil from the company’s point of view if it’s part of a bigger plan to improve the product mix for the customers and to improve certain key metrics within the company, certainly the re-branded low-end Radeon HD 7000 series offerings are in this category.S|A "

Message edited by malmental on 12-17-2011 at 06:40:57 PM

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Reply to malmental

http://www.pcper.com/category/tags/radeon-hd-7000

If the convincing-looking leaked slides are to be believed, the upcoming AMD Radeon HD 7970 card is now naked before us with all its measurements laid to bare. While there still is nothing official as the embargo is not up yet, rest assured that at some point the full story will flood to the surface. What can be said is that if this slide is true, the 7970 looks to be a real beast of a card.

As you can tell from the heavily watermarked slide, AMD claims 3.5 TFLOPs of computing power from their 2048 stream processing units clocked at 925 MHz. Contrast this against the AMD’s assertion of 2.7 TFLOPs from the Radeon 6970’s 1536 stream processors and a core clock of 880MHz; while it is not an apples-to-apples comparison, it is a healthy buff to AMD’s portfolio. Also relevant, is a more recent slide claiming much-increased performance during tesselation which NVIDIA typically has maintained a healthy lead over AMD with.

Possibly the most major point from the table is the power consumption: less than 3 Watts during idle. To give a bit of... pc perspective...: HardOCP measured the idle power consumption of the 6970 to be 24 Watts and the NVIDIA GTX 580 at 41 Watts. We are talking about an 88% decrease in idle power draw compared to AMD’s last generation’s single GPU powerhouse. It makes me wonder: how will this affect mobility graphics? According to OBR-Hardware, their slide is somewhat out-of-date; the expected peak is 200W give or take for the card on load, though I am sure that will vary depending on which brand of card you purchase.

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Reply to malmental

It seems to be so that Global Foundries versions are not coming out. Only those from TSMC...

3 Wat idle? Hmm... seems to be very CPU like core sleep/shutdown technology used in here if that claims remains true. It would be nice indeed! But with so many transistors it does not sound very believeable...

Reply to hannibal

28nm means they can pack more peformance into the GPU that is all, power and heat consumption may or may not be better than the current generation of GPU ie 6xxx series. It all depends on how efficient the architecture is going to be. Gpu's always eat power and give off a lot of heat. Isnt there 2 8 pin connectors for the 7900 series?

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Reply to redeemer

there are / is some info and pic of the HD 7900 card.
I'll try and locate some good ones and maybe we also can see the power requirements.

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Reply to malmental

redeemer wrote :

28nm means they can pack more peformance into the GPU that is all, power and heat consumption may or may not be better than the current generation of GPU ie 6xxx series. It all depends on how efficient the architecture is going to be. Gpu's always eat power and give off a lot of heat. [b]Isnt there 2 8 pin connectors for the 7900 series?[b]

if i'm not mistaken those were ES. from the rumor its possible to give the card 2 6-pin configuration but AMD might go for 8-pin and 6-pin configuration to give overclocker more headroom.

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Reply to renz496

http://semiaccurate.com/2011/12/13 [...] m-day-one/
AMD unchains Tahiti Pro cards from day one.
Reference designs are for the weak..

A few weeks ago, we brought you a few more tidbits on the AMD (NYSE:AMD) HD7000 line, and there is one more important bit. It has to do with the second card to launch, the Tahiti Pro.

If you recall, the SI/GCN/HD7000 launch goes Tahiti XT, Tahiti Pro, Pitcairn XT, Pitcairn Pro, spaced about a month apart, starting in January. In that previous article we said prices are also about $500, $400, $300, and $200 respectively, but one of those is purposefully off by a bit to catch plagiarizers like ATI-Forum.de.

Back to the new news, and it concerns the Tahiti Pro card. Word has reached SemiAccurate that Tahiti Pro will be unconstrained to the normal reference designs. If you recall, most GPU manufacturers will force AIBs to make cards based on the reference design for the first 3 months or so, and there are a variety of very good business reasons to do this.

Unfortunately, it leads to a problem where the reviews all are the same, mainly because all the cards are the same. The main difference between manufacturers comes down to what color the AIB decides to put on the chrome bikini of the girl with the big sword riding the mythical beast just below their logo. We are partial to Hafnium bikini’s on women riding giant Were-moles around here. Luckily, Tahiti Pro changes this.

Yes, we are hearing from multiple sources that the junior card of the two will be able to use non-reference designs from day one. Instead of having the same card over and over in head to head testing, you will actually see real differences. If you look at Max’s review of the 6850, you can see the Sapphire version is quite different from the reference design. It also runs significantly cooler, significantly quieter, and probably costs less to make. It is a win/win, and Tahiti Pro will get this treatment at the start. This qualifies as a ‘good thing’ for all involved.S|A

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Reply to malmental

if the 7970 had the same vliw4 arch as 6970, but just increased the alu to 2048 with the same clock speeds, how much performance improvbement would be there?

Reply to mayankleoboy1

winzip 16.5 to have openCL acceleration.

Reply to mayankleoboy1

So I here that Radeon is to release in there upcoming series a gpu that will be around $200 and have the equivalent performance of 6870 CFX FTW.

Reply to Headspin_69

^ very unlikely. a gpu that performs like 2x6870 CF will cost like a 6870 cf.

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Reply to mayankleoboy1

mayankleoboy1 wrote :

^ very unlikely. a gpu that performs like 2x6870 CF will cost like a 6870 cf.

+1

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Reply to malmental

Every new generation increases performance by some amount but generally speaking is about the same as what the past generation cost at release, assuming a similar amount of competition. So actually, 2 6870's cost around $450-500 at launch, and for that same amount of money in this generation (post price gouging) you could likely get about 20-30% better performance.

------------------------------ I havent had AMD driver problems since 10.7...and 9.3 before that

Reply to ares1214

the prices will eventually settle, but because there will be no competition for the 7xxx series to begin with and low supply, AMD can virtually charge anything as theyll sell out of their limited supply no matter what they charge, atleast to begin with

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Reply to we1shcake

these guys have some nice info,,,

http://lenzfire.com/2011/12/amd-ra [...] bus-34948/

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Reply to badtaylorx

we1shcake wrote :

the prices will eventually settle, but because there will be no competition for the 7xxx series to begin with and low supply, AMD can virtually charge anything as theyll sell out of their limited supply no matter what they charge, atleast to begin with

Amd will charge whatever they think the market will bear, just like any other company. any other strategy would be foolish.

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Message edited by Homeboy2 on 12-19-2011 at 12:39:58 AM

Reply to Homeboy2

Homeboy2 wrote :

Amd will charge whatever they think the market will bear, just like any other company. any other strategy would be foolish.

Yep, otherwise they would not sell their older cards at all. It seems that this will be 605€ in here Finland, so allmost as much as two 6970 together (here a' 320€). So the power vs price is guite balanced (and when you consider that you now get the same power in one card).
We need new GPUs from Nvidia to reduce prices. Until then there is very little reason for AMD to reduce their prices.

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Message edited by hannibal on 12-19-2011 at 04:21:23 PM

Reply to hannibal

hannibal wrote :

Yep, othervise they would not sell their older cards at all. It seems that this will be 605€ in here Finland, so allmost as much as two 6970 together (here a' 320€). So the power vs prize is guite balanced (and when you consider that you now get the same power in one card).
We need new GPUs from Nvidia to reduce prizes. Until then there is very little reason for AMD to reduce prizes.

hint for your english
prize= something you win
price= how much something costs

Reply to we1shcake

Don't think this has been posted yet
http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/i [...] pixellized

This could open up the 128 bit bus bottleneck rumours/issues again.
Testing on the 5770 was not conclusive but suggested the cards were more engine restricted than bandwidth.
A faster card would in my opinion be very close to being hamstrung by the 128 bit bus.
It certainly would stop me buying it as an upgrade to system no 2.

Mactronix

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Reply to mactronix

malmental wrote :

there are / is some info and pic of the HD 7900 card.
I'll try and locate some good ones and maybe we also can see the power requirements.

When will these cards come out?

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Reply to scienceisfun91

My question for the guru's is. Will there be a big performance hit using a single card conf of the new 7xxx cards on a PCI-e 2.0 mobo? And will the numbering system fall back in line the 5xxx series. Example: 5850=4850 with DX11 support. The 6850 didn't match the power off the 5850 and was more like a upgrade from a 5830.

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Reply to ern88

scienceisfun91 wrote :

When will these cards come out?

still debatable.
some say the low end will be released first while others say the higher end.
exact date is still a question as well.

they are to be out sooner than the nVidia cards however.

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Reply to malmental

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/A [...] 14309.html

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Reply to malmental

ern88 wrote :

My question for the guru's is. Will there be a big performance hit using a single card conf of the new 7xxx cards on a PCI-e 2.0 mobo? And will the numbering system fall back in line the 5xxx series. Example: 5850=4850 with DX11 support. The 6850 didn't match the power off the 5850 and was more like a upgrade from a 5830.

The numbering scheme did change a bit for AMD with 6xxx (which was very confusing for a lot of consumers during the transition period). This new generation of cards will follow the most recent product number format: 7970/7950/7870/7850/etc etc...

ern88 wrote :

My question for the guru's is. Will there be a big performance hit using a single card conf of the new 7xxx cards on a PCI-e 2.0 mobo? And will the numbering system fall back in line the 5xxx series. Example: 5850=4850 with DX11 support. The 6850 didn't match the power off the 5850 and was more like a upgrade from a 5830.

no one knows what numbering scheme AMD is going to use yet, and there won't be any performance hit with using PCI 2 with a 7xxxx series card.

Reply to Homeboy2

I think at this point we can assume they will follow the 6xxx format, though who knows maybe they wanna ad a GT in there or an irrelevant S on the end of things to make em go faster. They could even call them 7969.99 that's been a long time winner when it comes to pricing, why not naming to!

Reply to benikens

You can'y buy it yet but the 7970 reviews are here
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261 [...] 970-review
Shows it consistently performs above the 6970 & 580 but below the 6990 & 590
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/rade [...] 32344.html
Similar results but can sometimes get above the 6990 & 590

Reply to simon12

I really hope they lower the MSRP to USD$450 8(!

Since it's 28nm new node, they will be like the first gen 40nm in the market. Non-existent and REALLY expensive >_<

GCN seems like a pretty decent step up in the right direction for GPGPU, even though there are almost no software ready for GCN. I'm really looking forward for a full review with a full GPGPU comparison against nVidia.

Hope AMD doesn't screw this with the driver part though... They really have a great piece of hardware here. Lot of potential.

Cheers!

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Reply to Yuka

One more thing to cheer about is that the 28nm HKMG chips provide very high yields.While the first gen 40nm chips were plagued with leakage issues.

Reply to Anik8

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD [...] 2384.shtml

With the Radeon HD 7970 now official, enthusiast’s attention has now turned towards the soon to be released HD 7950, which is going to feature the same Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture as its older brother but at a lower price point.

At the heart of the Radeon HD 7950 will stand the same Tahiti-class GPU as that found in the HD 7970, but this time some of the core’s Compute Units will be disabled to turn it into the Tahiti Pro.

According to a slide published by Donanim Haber, the number of CUs disabled is set at four, which means that the card will include a total of 1792 stream processors compared to the 2048 of the HD 7970.

These will be accompanied by 112 texture units, while the memory bus width, and most probably the number of ROP units, has remained unchanged.

The amount of memory installed also wasn’t modified so we are talking about the same 3GB of GDDR5 video buffer that is designed to run at 5Gbps data rate.

AMD hasn’t so far established the final frequency of the VRAM or that of the GPU, but the latter is expected to come clocked somewhere in between 800MHz and 900MHz.

AMD Radeon HD 7950 specifications
Enlarge picture
The power consumption figures of the graphics card are now yet available, but this will feature the same ZeroCore technology as the HD 7970 that can completely turns off the card when the system is in idle with the monitor shut down.

Other features include support for one DVI, one HDMI and two mini-DisplayPort video outputs as well as PCI Express 3.0 and DirectX 11.1 compatibility.

Sadly, no information regarding the price of the Radeon HD 7950 is available at this time, but we expect this to retail for about $500 (384 EUR), which is just about how much Nvidia asks for its GTX 580. Availability seems to be scheduled for January 2012.

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Reply to malmental

^ specs look compelling.Only if they gave the clock speeds some boost....
For you know the previous generation had these same frequencies and I expected they would make some gains on clock speeds in the 28nm chips.

Message edited by Anik8 on 12-22-2011 at 11:18:28 PM

Reply to Anik8

malmental wrote :

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD [...] 2384.shtml

With the Radeon HD 7970 now official, enthusiast’s attention has now turned towards the soon to be released HD 7950, which is going to feature the same Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture as its older brother but at a lower price point.

At the heart of the Radeon HD 7950 will stand the same Tahiti-class GPU as that found in the HD 7970, but this time some of the core’s Compute Units will be disabled to turn it into the Tahiti Pro.

According to a slide published by Donanim Haber, the number of CUs disabled is set at four, which means that the card will include a total of 1792 stream processors compared to the 2048 of the HD 7970.

These will be accompanied by 112 texture units, while the memory bus width, and most probably the number of ROP units, has remained unchanged.

The amount of memory installed also wasn’t modified so we are talking about the same 3GB of GDDR5 video buffer that is designed to run at 5Gbps data rate.

AMD hasn’t so far established the final frequency of the VRAM or that of the GPU, but the latter is expected to come clocked somewhere in between 800MHz and 900MHz.

AMD Radeon HD 7950 specifications
Enlarge picture
The power consumption figures of the graphics card are now yet available, but this will feature the same ZeroCore technology as the HD 7970 that can completely turns off the card when the system is in idle with the monitor shut down.

Other features include support for one DVI, one HDMI and two mini-DisplayPort video outputs as well as PCI Express 3.0 and DirectX 11.1 compatibility.

Sadly, no information regarding the price of the Radeon HD 7950 is available at this time, but we expect this to retail for about $500 (384 EUR), which is just about how much Nvidia asks for its GTX 580. Availability seems to be scheduled for January 2012.

I think/hope that the 7950 will be closer to 450, I don't know why, cause i'm not paying that much either :lol:

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Reply to Homeboy2

Homeboy2 wrote :

I think/hope that the 7950 will be closer to 450, I don't know why, cause i'm not paying that much either :lol:

:lol: toke cough spit up, toke cough....
ROFL.

Message edited by malmental on 12-22-2011 at 11:56:33 PM

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Reply to malmental

malmental wrote :

Using a 28nm manufacturing process means that the new Radeon HD 7000 series cards will have a lower consumption and higher operating frequencies margin, i.e., yield will be more even if they share the same design as the previous generation.

Seems like the 28nm process worked well in reducing the IDLE & LOAD power consumption, take a look at the GTX 580 & 590 compared to HD 7970.

Anybody got info about the Rambus XDR2 ?

Message edited by ilysaml on 12-23-2011 at 12:54:34 PM

Reply to ilysaml

awesome chart but I have already decided that I'm sticking with nVidia
so GTX 6xx or hearing it might go to GTX 7 series for the non-OEM.

Rambus XDR2 is NOT HAPPENING, GDDR5 is still running..
but an HD 7970 with maybe a GTX 550 Ti for PhysX does sound intriguing..

Message edited by malmental on 12-23-2011 at 01:10:43 PM

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Reply to malmental

I would have been more impressed if that was the HD 7950. GTX 680 or 780 or whatever is said to arrive @ Q4 2012 which give AMD more time to develop more stronger and competing GPUs released with the same date (just an assumption).

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Reply to ilysaml

ilysaml wrote :

I would have been more impressed if that was the HD 7950. GTX 680 or 780 or whatever is said to arrive @ Q4 2012 which give AMD more time to develop more stronger and competing GPUs released with the same date (just an assumption).

If Kepler has not arrived by Q3 2012, I'll vote for Obama in November. (and I''ve voted straight ticket GOP since the first time I voted for Reagan)

This was a mediocre (paper) launch IMO.

It succeeds in a decent increase over the 6970, but fails to distance itself from last gen competition significantly. All NVIDIA has to do is hit a 50% increase over last gen and they have a 25%+ lead over this part. I can't remember NVIDIA ever not hitting 50% over last gen.

Last rumors I saw for Kepler were Q2 2012, so the 7970's reign will be short lived.

The improvements in 3d are welcome.

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Reply to Rollo

Rollo wrote :

If Kepler has not arrived by Q3 2012, I'll vote for Obama in November.
Last rumors I saw for Kepler were Q2 2012, so the 7970's reign will be short lived.

I'm not voting for him again, this time Hillary... :whistle:
anyways, +1000 for the short reign of the soon to be released HD 7970... :hello:

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Reply to malmental

Rollo wrote :

If Kepler has not arrived by Q3 2012, I'll vote for Obama in November. (and I''ve voted straight ticket GOP since the first time I voted for Reagan)

This was a mediocre (paper) launch IMO.

It succeeds in a decent increase over the 6970, but fails to distance itself from last gen competition significantly. All NVIDIA has to do is hit a 50% increase over last gen and they have a 25%+ lead over this part. I can't remember NVIDIA ever not hitting 50% over last gen.

Last rumors I saw for Kepler were Q2 2012, so the 7970's reign will be short lived.

The improvements in 3d are welcome.

While I mostly agree with you, the % gained by nVidia is a little less than 50%, depending on which release, closer to 45 or a tad less.
Even so, thatd bring us back into what weve been seeing lately, but if there is a savings grace, its the baby drivers on this new arch.
Wavy Davey Baumann said theyd found 5% on a game while reviews were being written, and theres more to come.
Also, theres word of a new bios for this card, a more aggressive one, which shows maybe why the clocks are so low

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Reply to JAYDEEJOHN

According to this specs;

Gk110 : Dual Chip GK104 × 2, supports PCI Express Gen.3
Gk104 : Performance GPU, supports PCI Express Gen.3
Gk106 : Mainstream GPU, supports PCI Express Gen.3
Gk107 : Entry GPU , supports PCI Express Gen.2

The Gk 104 should match or experience a little improvement over the HD 7970, Don't know if the Gk 112 is coming this year or not, so we might see the same story happened between the HD 6K & GTX 5K series, the difference between the Gk110 and the Tahity would be like the gab between GTX 580 and HD 6970 or who knows the GPUs might be identical and no serious improvement.

Anyone can confirm which one of those codenamed GPUs would be the GTX 780/680?

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Reply to ilysaml

ilysaml wrote :

According to this specs;
http://wccftech.com/wp-content/upl [...] 35x416.jpg

Gk110 : Dual Chip GK104 × 2, supports PCI Express Gen.3
Gk104 : Performance GPU, supports PCI Express Gen.3
Gk106 : Mainstream GPU, supports PCI Express Gen.3
Gk107 : Entry GPU , supports PCI Express Gen.2

The Gk 104 should match or experience a little improvement over the HD 7970, Don't know if the Gk 112 is coming this year or not, so we might see the same story happened between the HD 6K & GTX 5K series, the difference between the Gk110 and the Tahity would be like the gab between GTX 580 and HD 6970 or who knows the GPUs might be identical and no serious improvement.

Anyone can confirm which one of those codenamed GPUs would be the GTX 780/680?

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/ [...] nical-data
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/ [...] xxx-series

check out the last set of pages..

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Reply to malmental

Quote :

the GK100 is expected to perform close to GeForce GTX 590 (dual GPU) but not same or above GTX 590.

The top end single GPU card would perform like a GTX 590 ? sounds ridiculous to me and the prices sounds more ridiculous.
An overclocked HD 7970 showed a close performance to the GTX 590 with the beta drivers.
I doubt the data in that table, also the prices.

So what about that "nVidia confidential" showing the GTX 780?

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Reply to ilysaml

it's all suspect...

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Reply to malmental

http://www.pclaunches.com/graphic- [...] 1-2012.php

Recently launched Radeon HD 7970 is the first card under AMD’s 28nm Radeon HD 7000 family.
Now word on internet has it AMD is planning to update the family with a dual-GPU Radeon HD 7990 by the end of first quarter of 2012.
Once it makes its debut, the Radeon HD 7970 will be crowned as the world’s most powerful graphics card.

Google Ads
Based on 28nm Tahiti GPU, the video card will provide 4096 stream processors, 256 texture units and 64 ROP units.
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Message edited by malmental on 12-24-2011 at 12:01:08 AM

------------------------------ A+, Net+, MCDST, DSCE (Dell)
Boltzmann constant squared
Reply to malmental

I know this, I've read the Specs of the HD 7990, I wonder what happened with the XDR2 rambus memory.

Reply to ilysaml

'Rambus' is what happened to it...

Message quoted 1 times

------------------------------ A+, Net+, MCDST, DSCE (Dell)
Boltzmann constant squared
Reply to malmental

malmental wrote :

'Rambus' is what happened to it...

If it was implemented, the performance would be marvelous but the price would be very high, the RDRAM was the most expensive among the current and previous gens.

Reply to ilysaml

Quote :

If it was implemented, the performance would be marvelous but the price would be very high, the RDRAM was the most expensive among the current and previous gens.

IMO, the additional memory BW from xdr2 would benefit only the compute applications, and not actual games.

Reply to mayankleoboy1

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