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Please help on upgrading the card

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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December 25, 2011 1:15:20 AM

Hello all!

I was researching and cant decide really, as Im not an expert in hardware.

I currently have this system set up:

ACER Aspire M5641 Tower (I guess its mini tower?)

Board: ACER MCP73PV NVIDIA MCP73

Card : ATI Radeon HD 4850 512 MB

400 Watt power supply

Monitor : 19 inch 1280x1024

The card is great, but lately too noisy, thats why Id want to replace it. I read that Geforce cards are more quiet, but will a geforce card fit in my system? (I think the latest are all 2-slot cards?)

The question is whats the best card out there for my system to upgrade? I think not every card will fit into this tower, right?

thanks

More about : upgrading card

a c 253 U Graphics card
December 25, 2011 1:24:18 AM

What are you looking to spend on this video card .
a c 107 U Graphics card
December 25, 2011 1:31:37 AM

Your tower looks to have the space for a 2 slot card, you can always look it still just takes on plug on the board, just the larger heatsink hangs down and it takes 2 screw locations.

An example of a dual card on mATX board(small board like those used in many acer systems)


Most single slot cards are louder. For instance a 4870 was not that loud of a card since it has a better cooler.

To be honest, i recommend cleaning the heatsink on your card with an air duster as a 4850 should not be THAT loud. As a card gets too much dust build up, it gets louder trying to cool it self.

If you plan to get a card, take note of the length of your case as well as the 12 volt current on your power supply. If you lack the power, a new card could make the system unstable.

Something like a 5770 or 6770 even a from ATI will take less power and thus work with your system. a 6850 should work as well
On the nvidia end. gtx 550ti or GTX 460. If you have a card you wonder about, just ask.
Related resources
a c 253 U Graphics card
December 25, 2011 1:39:12 AM

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fastest-graphics-ca...

This list will show you where each card falls on the list and you want to upgrade when you are moving up at least two levels , otherwise you might not notice much of a performance increase.

EVGA 01G-P3-1556-KR GeForce GTX 550 Ti (Fermi) FPB 1GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
$144.99 and a $20 rebate makes it $124.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Thios is a card that I would have been recomending but it is only one level up from the card you currently have. So a card that is two levels up is;

EVGA 01G-P3-1460-KR GeForce GTX 560 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
$179.99 and a $15 rebate makes it $164.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

The only problem is that this card requires a 450w psu minimum , while the 550Ti requires a 400w psu minimum.
December 25, 2011 1:14:54 PM

thanks for replies,

nukemaster, yes, I just checked, it has space for 2 slots, but then it will be next to my sound card without any space between them, is that ok? 6850 requires 500 watts I think. What is 12 volt ? If it runs 4850 now, then it should be fine I guess? The power supply is - fsp400-60tha. I guess this is it:

http://www.primesource.in/inner_products_serversmps_fsp...

So the top card for 400 watts is gtx550 Ti? Or is there any others?

Out of these 2 which one would you go for?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I think asus?

thanks
a c 107 U Graphics card
December 25, 2011 7:42:23 PM

The Asus card is not overclocked as far and will draw less power.
At those speeds, it should be close to the same power draw as your current card(and lower when it is not playing a game).

If you are worried, the 6770 would take less power and be slightly slower(depends on game).
December 25, 2011 8:06:28 PM

nukemaster said:
The Asus card is not overclocked as far and will draw less power.
At those speeds, it should be close to the same power draw as your current card(and lower when it is not playing a game).

If you are worried, the 6770 would take less power and be slightly slower(depends on game).


Alright, so you are saying these 2 cards(zotac & asus) use the same amount of power as mine current hd4850, but are more powerful? It means Im wasting power now with my hd4850?

The asus card is much longer though 9.54" vs 7.4" on zotac .... will it fit?

6770 still says 450 Watt or greater power supply.
December 25, 2011 8:22:27 PM

For some reason I cant edit my msg. I just checked and the hd4850 seems to be even longer, so it will fit probably.

I took a photo :



is it ok if that gap will be filled by new 2-slot card and will be next to sound card? I guess i dont have other options.
a c 107 U Graphics card
December 25, 2011 8:46:44 PM

The power requirements are over rated. a 6770 card will have trouble taking more then 100 watts on its own.

New generations of cards get much more powerful and more energy efficient. So the newer and faster card takes similar power. Please note, this is not a massive upgrade, but it is still faster.

I have placed cards close to other cards like that, but with both the new cards taking air in the center, it may run a bit warmer. That is one advantage to any card(Nvidia ot AMD) that blows all the hot air out the back of the case.
December 25, 2011 8:57:34 PM

nukemaster, thanks for your help, I think Ill get the asus one, as it claims to have some cooling mechanism there.

cheers
December 25, 2011 9:22:28 PM

ermmm, I just read other sites, and all people are saying that gtx550ti is not that of an upgrade from hd4850! And all recommending hd6850 :) 

The question is will it run with 400 watts power supply? Would you risk? My CPU is not overclocked - 2.33 gigahertz Intel Core2 Quad Q8200 + 1280x1024 resolution, it shouldt use max power right?

And if i get hd6850, I should look for not overclocked version I guess? Is this a better choice or I wont notice a difference on 1280x1024??
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 25, 2011 9:59:18 PM

Just curious, is that photo upside down or that's how your PC stands? If it's the latter, I suggest flipping it, since the heat goes up, not down.
December 25, 2011 10:09:25 PM

Sunius said:
Just curious, is that photo upside down or that's how your PC stands? If it's the latter, I suggest flipping it, since the heat goes up, not down.


are you referring to my photo? haha, I put it down, so I could take a photo, now its covered and standing back up.
a c 107 U Graphics card
December 25, 2011 11:30:50 PM

Here are some numbers on the 6850, less power then your current card and faster. I recommend getting the stock design with teh fan at one side and vent on that back, since this will remove the heat from your case faster(i am not sure how available it is.).


Please note, the new card is said to run louder then the old one :( 

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6850/2...

The 5770 has a requirement of a 450 watt power supply as well, That is for a fairly loaded system. I run the same 5770 in a system with a 300 watt FSP power supply. If a 6850 takes less power then your current card, there is no reason for it not to work.

Its not about wattage, but amperage on its 12 volt rail, but since your current card works, you already know you have the power.

5770 on a 300 watt power supply anyone? its in the back
December 25, 2011 11:56:42 PM

nukemaster said:


Please note, the new card is said to run louder then the old one :( 

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6850/2...



Ok, some guy @ youtube said hes running it fine on 400 watts, and my FSP got 2 12 v rails with 15 & 14 amp.

Yes, I looked at that link, the power consumption against my current card is fantastic.

nukemaster said:
Please note, the new card is said to run louder then the old one :( 


What do you mean louder? Do you have any links with more info? Probably its louder when playing games? But my current card pisses me off when I surf the web! Right now while Im typing here, no idea why, but theres something on this page that makes my card waken up? If I switch now to the next tab with google website - it goes quiet again. It does this noise with some websites only.
a c 107 U Graphics card
December 26, 2011 12:13:46 AM

On the same page, there should be a menu with other charts. One of those are noise. it shows the 6850 being louder then the 4850(@ both idle and load), but since each card makers uses a different fan, you may not have that issue.

The main tomshardware page for some reason causes web browsers to use the video cards build in acceleration to the max.

I mean my 5870 jumps from 157mhz on google to 850mhz here on toms(but does not get loud).

What browser are you running, you can try with that option off.

Did you clean the cards heatsink? If it is dirty, it will heat up faster and be louder.

EDIT, i just want to clear this up. Your computer, Is it a BTX type case? By BTX type i am bringing up a question from earlier. with a BTX case the expansion cards are on the TOP of the motherboard on a ATX style case, the cards are on the bottom. And on one of my cases :)  its all sideways :) 

The power supply is not always at the top of a BTX style case. See how the pci/pci-e slots are on the top?
December 26, 2011 12:47:56 AM

alright, so im not alone...you see you dont get noise, I do.

Im on latest Firefox. Just unticked "hardware acceleration", and its good, man! haha, why didnt I do that earlier. thanks for the tip!
December 26, 2011 12:55:01 AM

nukemaster said:

EDIT, i just want to clear this up. Your computer, Is it a BTX type case? By BTX type i am bringing up a question from earlier. with a BTX case the expansion cards are on the TOP of the motherboard on a ATX style case, the cards are on the bottom. And on one of my cases :)  its all sideways :) 

The power supply is not always at the top of a BTX style case. See how the pci/pci-e slots are on the top?
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9357/13atxbtxhc6.gif


Here is mine:




Why do you ask that? Do you reckon it wont fit?
a c 107 U Graphics card
December 26, 2011 1:38:31 AM

I was asking from the same concern as Sunius.

That is good to see, Heat will rise away from your sound card and leave the case.

If it was the other way, heat would rise and hit the top of the case by the sound card and never leave.

Since it is a standard ATX(Technically mATX) cause, you are good.

Please note that new cards do away with S-video plug(Lets you connect to a Standard def TV. If you do not do that, this is not an issue for you :)  )
December 26, 2011 2:23:09 AM

nukemaster said:
I was asking from the same concern as Sunius.

That is good to see, Heat will rise away from your sound card and leave the case.

If it was the other way, heat would rise and hit the top of the case by the sound card and never leave.

Since it is a standard ATX(Technically mATX) cause, you are good.

Please note that new cards do away with S-video plug(Lets you connect to a Standard def TV. If you do not do that, this is not an issue for you :)  )


So as I understood my soundcard is at very bottom, and the heat will go away though upper holes in the case? If it was the other way round it wouldnt go away? I would never think of that, the direction of heat :) 

My current card is connected to my HDTV via hdmi cable...

P.s : after turning "acceleration hardware" off in firefox the text font got worse, so I turned it back on.
a c 107 U Graphics card
December 26, 2011 2:32:48 AM

Yeah, i just wanted it not to use your video card for rendering pages, no text. I am seeing if there is a way to do it for you to test.

One way, would be to right click on a firefox shortcut and set compatibility mode for XP SP3. This kills off the Aero skin, but does stop the video card from clocking up on the tomshardware page. Youtube videos will still clock it up.

Looking to see if there are any better ways.

I tried to turn it off in the firefox options, i do not see a text difference. Not sure why.
December 26, 2011 2:49:04 AM

nukemaster said:


I tried to turn it off in the firefox options, i do not see a text difference. Not sure why.


On my end the text in address bar and in search bar on top becomes weird thinny, the text on the page stays the same though, hm, I guess its Firefox developers did smth wrong.
a c 107 U Graphics card
December 26, 2011 2:57:46 AM

Maybe. Just an interesting note for you.

Firefox with Tomshardware.com open. average 140 watts



Google.ac because regular google has some html5 animation that makes it similar to toms. average 100 watts



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

If i run the tests with acceleration off, my gpu does not get to 850(even as it is, it bounces from 157-600-850, but mostly 850). EDIT test done, with it off average power is down, but scrolling is the same. So for sitting looking at a site, Hardware acceleration takes more power. When scrolling a page or even my winamp playlist, they are the same. In my case if increases power usage by 40-50 watts

Just food for thought since the idea of GPU acceleration was to save power....

Damn i have steered well of topic.
December 26, 2011 3:07:59 AM

nukemaster said:
Maybe. Just an interesting note for you.

Firefox with Tomshardware.com open. average 140 watts

]http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4765/tomshardwaregpu.th.jpg

Google.ac because regular google has some html5 animation that makes it similar to toms. average 100 watts

]http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/4331/googlegpu.th.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

If i run the tests with acceleration off, my gpu does not get to 850(even as it is, it bounces from 157-600-850, but mostly 850)

Just food for thought since the idea of GPU acceleration was to save power....


thats some "funny" results there, just one webpage holds it on max?

You lost me there, r u saying when you turn acceleration off not much changes? so why my card gets louder then with acceleration on?

Ill update the catalyst suit now, and see if it helps.(as I got old one 2010 version, the design on old one is better for me).
a c 107 U Graphics card
December 26, 2011 3:16:21 AM

I was recommending turning it off because the website would not hold it at full speed. It is not only toms, but another unmentionable site gives me about 600mhz so less. it all has to do with FF having the video card do some of the heavy lifting for its rendering and displaying engine.

It only would when you scroll and with some luck that would not be enough to heat up and get as loud.

That said, It never makes my card loud, the fan speed only goes up by 2%. but these are not the same card.

My images are more an observation of how much more programs rely on our video cards(FF, IE, Chrome and windows own AERO interface).

Like I said, we have come well beyond the topic of this thread now.
!