Upgrading!

[BinaryData]

Hey Guys!

I'm an OLD Toms Hardware lackey, can't remember the info but nonetheless!

Current Specs:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 2.67Ghz (Auto OC'd to 2.83Ghz)
Mobo: Gigabyte P43T-ES3G
RAM: G.Skill 4GB DDR3 1600
GFX: NVidia GeForce 9800GTX+ (I know, don't hit me!)
HD1: 160GB WD SATA
HD2: 500GB WD SATA
HD3: WD 1GB SATA
HD4: WD 1GB SATA
DVD: ASUS DVD/CD RW +/-

The goal is to upgrade the graphics card, and get more ram at the same time. (I Play lots of EVE Online and multibox).

I have about 230$ to spend, the goal is a new GFX Card, RAM, and Shipping.

I was looking at either of these 2 Cards;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...30-749^14-130-749-TS,14-130-750^14-130-750-TS

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231193 <-- RAM

I don't understand what the 192/256 bit means. Is it going to effect my gaming? I've been out of the gaming loop for ages. Upgrading the mobo/cpu later this year.

 

[dish_moose]

Consider getting a GTX560Ti - you have enough RAM for now.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125401
Also think about getting your cpu to at least 3.2GHz. Do you have a stock cooler?
-Bruce

 

[BinaryData]

Consider getting a GTX560Ti - you have enough RAM for now.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125401
Also think about getting your cpu to at least 3.2GHz. Do you have a stock cooler?
-Bruce

Mmm... 210$ is outta the price range. 4GB of RAM for what I do, isn't enough. Running 3 or 4 EVE Clients, taxes my memory out, and generally makes my PC unhappy.

I'm Going to be upgrading to an i5 or i7 here in the next month or so, and I have an aftermarket Fan, which I replace reguarly. I'm paranoid about overheating due to my last motherboard having temperature issues.

 

[fb39ca4]

Do you have extra RAM slots? If so, pick up a 2x2GB kit of RAM for $25-$30, otherwise get 8GB for $50 and get an HD 6870 or GTX 560 for $180. Boom.

BTW I didn't know 1GB SATA hard drives even existed

 

[BinaryData]

Do you have extra RAM slots? If so, pick up a 2x2GB kit of RAM for $25-$30, otherwise get 8GB for $50 and get an HD 6870 or GTX 560 for $180. Boom.

BTW I didn't know 1GB SATA hard drives even existed

Mmm... That's what I'm planning on doing. I just wanted to know what the difference is between the 192bit & 256bit GPU's. If there's a MAJOR performance difference or just a little.


Edit: Wasn't paying attention about the GB/TB thing

 

[de5_Roy]

SAPPHIRE 100314-3L Radeon HD 6870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card $164.99
$144.99 with Rebate
$7.56 Shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102948
ASUS ENGTX560 DC/2DI/1GD5 GeForce GTX 560 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card $184.99
$164.99 with Rebate
Free Shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121466
here are the other cards from this list.
i think cards higher than the 560/560ti might get bottlenecked by the stock c2q. you could try oc'ing it over 3 ghz with a good cpu cooler. also make sure you have a good psu to support the gfx card.
nvidia's 192 bit don't really mean anything. cards show performance increase from 128 bit memory bus to 256 bit memory bus. sometimes a well-designed 128 bit card will compete head to head with a 192 bit card (e.g. radeon hd 5770/6770 vs gtx 550ti) or a 256 bit card (e.g. 6970) will perform as good as a 320 bit card (e.g. gtx 570).

 

[BinaryData]

SAPPHIRE 100314-3L Radeon HD 6870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card $164.99
$144.99 with Rebate
$7.56 Shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102948
ASUS ENGTX560 DC/2DI/1GD5 GeForce GTX 560 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card $184.99
$164.99 with Rebate
Free Shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121466
here are the other cards from this list.
i think cards higher than the 560/560ti might get bottlenecked by the stock c2q. you could try oc'ing it over 3 ghz with a good cpu cooler. also make sure you have a good psu to support the gfx card.
nvidia's 192 bit don't really mean anything. cards show performance increase from 128 bit memory bus to 256 bit memory bus. sometimes a well-designed 128 bit card will compete head to head with a 192 bit card (e.g. radeon hd 5770/6770 vs gtx 550ti) or a 256 bit card (e.g. 6970) will perform as good as a 320 bit card (e.g. gtx 570).

Thanks for the awesome response de_roy. I remember you from previous questions I've asked. I forgot to mention, I try and run EVGA only, when it comes to video cards. I've found that they have the best customer support when it comes to video cards, warranty, and overall easy access to information. The last ASUS product I purchased, I couldn't even find an email to get a replacement when it broke, (Under warranty of course).

So let's see if I understand this...

Will a 192bit card operate at the same levels a 256bit would, or would it just be slightly less? I only play 3 games currently, and want to run all 3 games at full graphics. EVE Online, Heroes of Newerth, and Star Wars: The Old Republic. Would a 192bit get me the same performance as the 256bit? Shopping on a budget sucks


Edit:

Can you mix different types of RAM? if I had 4GB of G.Skill, Could I mix it with some Crucial RAM? Same Speeds, Same Everything, just a different brand name?

 

[de5_Roy]

sw tor performance analysis:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/star-wars-gaming-tests-review,3087.html
here's a list of evga cards with nvidia gtx 560 and up.
look up the review of the card you choose.
imo almost all mmo games are slightly more cpu bound (sw tor seems to be the same).
i didn't put gtx 460 in the list because nvidia will phase it out soon if not already. next year both nvidia and amd will release their respective new gfx hardware. amd's is due in january, you can read the preview (7970) article on tom's homepage. nvidia's (kepler - successor to fermi, gtx 6xx/7xx series) seem to be due in sometime in q1 2012. so in case you decide to, say use sli (with an sli supported mobo), you might not find a new gtx 460.
as for 192 bit vs 256 bit - no, 256 bit cards have higher memory bandwidth, so typically a 192 bit card will not be able to outperform a 256 bit card. especially a 256 bit gtx 560 ti will easily outperform a 192 bit 550 ti.
this is the 550 ti (192 bit) review:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-550-ti-gf116-radeon-hd-5770,2892.html
560 non ti review;
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-560-amp-edition-gtx-560-directcu-ii-top,2944.html
560 ti (256 bit) review:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-560-ti-gf114,2845-2.html
you'll notice in the 550ti review that it has higher memory bandwidth (98.5 gb/s, zotac version) vs 5770's (128 bit) 76.8 gb/s, yet the 5770 has higher minimum performance and very close average performance (at 1650x1080). the 5770 has higher gtex/s count though. memory bus width is one of many factors that decide performance.
meanwhile gtx 560 and gtx 560 ti both have 128~ gb/s memory bandwidth but the 560 ti has higher gtex/s count. the 560 ti outperforms the 560. it's like this;
5770 (128 bit) almost same as 550 ti (192 bit) < gtx 560 non ti (256 bit) < gtx 560 ti (256 bit). also the 560 ti is one of the 'best fps per dollar' cards right now.

 

[BinaryData]

sw tor performance analysis:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/star-wars-gaming-tests-review,3087.html
here's a list of evga cards with nvidia gtx 560 and up.
look up the review of the card you choose.
imo almost all mmo games are slightly more cpu bound (sw tor seems to be the same).
i didn't put gtx 460 in the list because nvidia will phase it out soon if not already. next year both nvidia and amd will release their respective new gfx hardware. amd's is due in january, you can read the preview (7970) article on tom's homepage. nvidia's (kepler - successor to fermi, gtx 6xx/7xx series) seem to be due in sometime in q1 2012. so in case you decide to, say use sli (with an sli supported mobo), you might not find a new gtx 460.
as for 192 bit vs 256 bit - no, 256 bit cards have higher memory bandwidth, so typically a 192 bit card will not be able to outperform a 256 bit card. especially a 256 bit gtx 560 ti will easily outperform a 192 bit 550 ti.
this is the 550 ti (192 bit) review:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-550-ti-gf116-radeon-hd-5770,2892.html
560 non ti review;
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-560-amp-edition-gtx-560-directcu-ii-top,2944.html
560 ti (256 bit) review:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-560-ti-gf114,2845-2.html
you'll notice in the 550ti review that it has higher memory bandwidth (98.5 gb/s, zotac version) vs 5770's (128 bit) 76.8 gb/s, yet the 5770 has higher minimum performance and very close average performance (at 1650x1080). the 5770 has higher gtex/s count though. memory bus width is one of many factors that decide performance.
meanwhile gtx 560 and gtx 560 ti both have 128~ gb/s memory bandwidth but the 560 ti has higher gtex/s count. the 560 ti outperforms the 560. it's like this;
5770 (128 bit) almost same as 550 ti (192 bit) < gtx 560 non ti (256 bit) < gtx 560 ti (256 bit). also the 560 ti is one of the 'best fps per dollar' cards right now.

So basically, get the 560 ti, and skip the RAM for now, correct?


Now if that's the case, I forgot to link my PSU. I have a 600watt PSU that can't handle sli'd 560s, but from what I can tell, it'll handle a 560gtx ti just fine.

 

[de5_Roy]

lol i didn't say 'skip the ram'. ram is cheap now, the more the better.
check your motherboard's qvl list, make sure the ram you buy is compatible with your motherboard. get dual channel kits, matching your current ram's speed and specs.
your psu is important. it has to have enough amperage on it's +12v rail to power the gfx card you're gonna use. use this page to calculate how many watts your system will consume with the new gfx card and possible oc. unfortunately, only the paid version allows to see +12v amperage.

 

[BinaryData]

lol i didn't say 'skip the ram'. ram is cheap now, the more the better.
check your motherboard's qvl list, make sure the ram you buy is compatible with your motherboard. get dual channel kits, matching your current ram's speed and specs.
your psu is important. it has to have enough amperage on it's +12v rail to power the gfx card you're gonna use. use this page to calculate how many watts your system will consume with the new gfx card and possible oc. unfortunately, only the paid version allows to see +12v amperage.

The ram that I listed above (G.Skill), I already own 4GB of (2x2GB). I wanted to boost it to 8GB. It's the SAME exact RAM.

I have a 600W PSU, According to the website you linked, I have plenty of room to work with. According to it, I need at least 454watts of power. I have 600w, so I have a little to spare.


I'm going to most likely buy the graphics card before I buy the ram. I need the graphics card more than I need the RAM. I need a new CPU/Mobo as well, but I can't get an i5 & mobo for 200$

 

[de5_Roy]

4 gb is adequate for now.
as for new cpu+mobo.... wait for ivb to come out. rumors suggest that intel will release ivb around march/april. intel's msrp is almost the same as sandy bridge's so expect similar launch prices (as long as other factors stay the same). check the ivb sticky in cpus section.
it's impossible to get i5 + mobo at $200. lowest i5 - 2300 costs around $180~ iirc. that'll be more of a sidegrade considering your current cpu.

 

[BinaryData]

4 gb is adequate for now.
as for new cpu+mobo.... wait for ivb to come out. rumors suggest that intel will release ivb around march/april. intel's msrp is almost the same as sandy bridge's so expect similar launch prices (as long as other factors stay the same). check the ivb sticky in cpus section.
it's impossible to get i5 + mobo at $200. lowest i5 - 2300 costs around $180~ iirc. that'll be more of a sidegrade considering your current cpu.

Alright gents!

I bought http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130660 this Graphics Card! I'll have it by Friday!


Now who to give the kudos too?! I can't choose one person when everyone gave excellent advice.