Swapping proprietary dell 650w for regular 900w ATX power supply safe?

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dmfree88

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I am currently having issues with my dell xps 600's power supply. It has a small whine and the fans seem fairly weak. I bought it used and it has made this noise since ive owned it and has had many issues with shutting down properly (also had issues booting prior to bios update). Because its a dell they replaced the standard 24/8 pin connector with a 24/10 pin. I have carefully read the pin connector layout provided here:

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xps600/en/SM/techov0.htm#wp1052309

My question is if I take the 10 pin connector from my power supply cut the wires long and run them to the proper connectors on the 8 pin, would i then be able to splice the 2 extra wires from another source? Considering using a sata connection as they have the same type of 2 wires needed to convert to 10pin.

I am not sure if this is safe or if this will work. Not sure if the power supply knows which wires are in use for what. Also not sure if this will properly function at all. whether my mobo will recognize the power supply(if mobo's even need to? im still fairly newb) or if dells bios has some sort of control? all my theories are based solely on diagrams, please let me know is this safe? is it plausable? has it been done before?

Also if your wondering why i am willing to go through all this rather then get the same part, the dell power supply runs around $300 refurbished and from what i hear its not a good power supply anyways. I have come across used ones for around $50-$150 but thats always risky and probably runs like mine does.. it works.. but for how long? also i have found a way better rocketfish power supply brand new for $80 and has much more capabilities and great reviews. Clearly wont fit the case but thats another issue I will address myself. (whether it be duct tape or what it will go LOL)..

Thank you and any suggestions greatly appreciated.
 
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Raiddinn
I would most definitely not get a Rocketfish PSU whatever you do.

That was the Best Buy brand, right? Store brand PSUs always suck.

I don't see any good reason why it won't work if you just make sure that all the ones listed as COM go to a ground wire and all the other ones go to a 12v DC wire.

However, I think you might want to consider taking the opportunity to get rid of the DELL motherboard entirely. If you tell me which exact processor and RAM you have I might be able to find you a cheap motherboard that will unlock you from all the dell oriented problems.
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Raiddinn

Raiddinn

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I would most definitely not get a Rocketfish PSU whatever you do.

That was the Best Buy brand, right? Store brand PSUs always suck.

I don't see any good reason why it won't work if you just make sure that all the ones listed as COM go to a ground wire and all the other ones go to a 12v DC wire.

However, I think you might want to consider taking the opportunity to get rid of the DELL motherboard entirely. If you tell me which exact processor and RAM you have I might be able to find you a cheap motherboard that will unlock you from all the dell oriented problems.
 
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dmfree88

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that is part of the problem, but changing motherboards wont fix much as most of the proprietary parts are case related and would require an overhaul or a completely different case alltogether. the computer itself is a dell xps 600 with a nforce4 series motherboard. socket 775 3.2g pentium D dual core. I would like a completely different case alltogether but then I would need a new motherboard as it is an obsolete form factor (ultra-atx). only case i could find for the motherboard is well over $150. also would require a new heat sink, or atleast new fans for the heatsink to get them to convert to a new case. the heatsink itself is a good one, just not likely to work in another case without a different fan setup.

So again we come back to the motherboard being replaced which is a good idea, but then I have 5-6 fans that would need replaced with non-dell plugin type. and the power supply issue where the power supply is a strange shape and location would need major fab to get that to even work.

So that has lead me to new case + mobo + power supply, which is beyond my capabilities at the moment. I am really in debt and my car is having major issues aswell. I wont even be able to convince my girlfriend that a powersupply is needed until this one dies (which may end up killing the mobo first, or my hard drive if the computer keeps failing to shut down while the hdd read light is on)

So finally after a lot of thought and consideration, knowing that my money is in very short supply and i really need a computer running. I figured I would attempt the power supply fab. I know its not the smartest way to do it but if it works then I can go on using it until I can afford another case, then eventually motherboard and fans so i can eventually do a full swap. But in the meantime I figured this would be my best/only option to keep my computer running well enough to feed my gaming addiction and still have future options to switch over.

So now about the rocketfish you say is a best buy brand? I really didnt know what would be best. I found that to be the cheapest one that was rated at 1000w peak and seemed that would be more then plenty and I could even add another fan or 2 if i end up getting my SLI running when i get another graphics card. I read good reviews about it saying it performed well and it had like 5 50amp rails which was really good (i could be completely wrong on the ampage it was awhile ago when i read the reviews). I really know nothing of power supplies or what would be a good brand I just found that to be the cheapest i could find with the most capabilities and the least ammount of bad reviews. What would you recommend? Keeping in mind budget and a power hog of a computer that should have a better power supply anyways.

(Sorry about the BOOK LOL. If you managed to read it all thanks just for listening lol. Any suggestions/comments welcome thanks)
 
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delluser1

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Sounds pretty ghetto, but yes it could work, without having to cut and splice
The chances of you needing even a 650 watt psu are kind of slim, are you running dual video cards ?

 
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Raiddinn

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Back when I got off the DELL train I had the same set of problems myself.

I had a Dimension 8400 and the PSU in it wasn't the standard form factor so when I bought a non-dell replacement I had to take metal cutters and rip a huge chunk out of the back plate on the case to get it to work right.

However, at least they hadn't jacked with the power connectors on the motherboard and my new aftermarket PSU would work without modifications.

I did have to get a new motherboard and a new case at the same time as the next step up from there too.

It sucks, but it is something that kinda has to be dealt with when trying to free oneself from the tyrrany of OEMs.

A G41 motherboard, a low end case like the Elite 430, and a PSU like a Corsair CX430 will run you about $40 a part or $120 in total.

If you can make it to your next birthday, you might want to try begging people for cash then.

Anyway, as long as you are competent to handle the fabrication process, I don't see any good reason why the task you are trying to do should not work. Just line up the grounds and the 12v lines the right way.

I am just more worried that you kill your new PSU and you are out that money and you kill your motherboard at the same time and you are out that money too.

I would seriously not spend a whole lot of time considering a second video card in your situation until you can unlock yourself from the DELL platform.

As for the Rocketfish PSU, some of the Best Buy brand PSUs come out of Dynex factories and some out of Channel Well factories. The latter usually is OK and the former not so much. I would worry if it were me that I was getting one of the Dynex versions if I bought one of the Rocketfish PSUs.

Either way, both are unlikely to actually be able to reach their stated wattages. The Channel Well 550w version shuts down over 500w in day 1 testing, to say nothing of how long it can be expected to last.

Anyway, I would strongly consider getting something like the XFX 450w instead. It can do more than the 500w the Rocketfish 550w can do in the best case scenario and it will likely last a whole lot longer too.

As long as you stick to one card and don't go crazy with OCing, then it should be fine. Ditto to the Corsair CX430w that I mentioned above. Either one should work and be available for fairly cheap in terms of what PSUs of the highest quality usually cost.
 
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dmfree88

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Yeah I am not running the 2 video cards yet, and the plans to were far in the future.

I see your point of not wanting to damage the new power supply nor the motherboard but i am worried that is already happening. the psu is very weak and i tend to run my one graphics card (not oc'd) for hours at a time and the air coming from the psu seems pretty warm at that point. when i finally got around to spraying it out (once i realized how bad it was a couple months ago) it blew out a dust cloud that filled my garage. So Im guessing its just time to replace the old beast. (cleaning it didnt fix the problem)

Also the graphics card i got coming in the mail says it recommends atleast a 450 watt graphics card (requires both of my 6 pin connectors), and the mobo is a ultra-atx so im sure requires quite a bit of juice itself (especially with all the 6 wire fans and such). And I am a fan whore myself so Id really like one with multiple extra molex so i can hook up 2 hdd fans and a decent sized case fan for the top. Nothing too special, probably dont need the 900watt but I couldnt find a similar one with enough hookups and the equivelant wattage. I know how brands are about claiming one thing and doing another so I figured dell probably wouldnt lie about the wattage of the psu because its pre-fab and it works, but keeping in mind other power supplies may not be truthful i didnt want to get one that wasnt atleast capable of what the dell could handle.

Anyways so my concerns are the wattage going to be sufficiant? The graphics card ia ge force GTS250. I really would like the safe feeling of being ABLE to hook up another graphics card in SLI. even if i never get around to it or never need to just having that safety net would make me feel like the psu would last longer anyways. Low load on a higher wattage psu would make me happier. Would a corsair cx600 be good? or corsair 650TX? maybe the xfx core edition 650? there seems to be 2 versions of the 650 thats never a good sign.. although v2 means they fixed it so maybe its even better since they worked out the kinks..

anyways it seems the 650tx is a reasonable price aswell as the cx600. I havent checked into how many wires/ what wires each comes with but i definetly feel safer with a named brand i recognize.

also when i hooked up a 8800 gts 512 to the computer it made a horrible revving noise when i turned on the computer.. seemed to be the same buzzing issue that was coming from heatsink/cpu. but was far worse at first and revving then it slowly evened out... im worried the draw on the psu was too much and it was having major issues so hooking up this new card may not even happen until the power supply issue is fixed.. was a crazy noise.. hope the new card doesnt cause that issue.. we will see..
 
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Raiddinn

Raiddinn

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The XFX 650w, CX600w, or TX650w should all be fine.

If you want one of those, I can't really blame you for it.

However, I would just like to point out that using 2x video cards isn't such a great idea. IMHO, the downsides are a lot more than the upsides.

The money saved from the ability to use a lower wattage PSU can be put toward breaking free of DELL, for starters.

1x a 6770 in the future would leave you tremendously better off in the future than a 2nd GTS 250 would in every way and it would cost about the same as the 2nd 250 would.

As far as power requirements go, most people have their video card, their processor, and maybe at most 100w more. That gives most people an at load wattage requirement of under 300w unless they are OCing heavily.

Anyway, I guess you are ready to pull the trigger whatever you are going to do.

Any of those PSUs you said is good enough for the task and you can go ahead and move on that front.

I still think that you would be a whole lot happier with biting the bullet and breaking free of the DELL grip now for an up front cost of $120ish if you can come to terms with the idea of only using 1 video card and you can handle that cost.
 
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dmfree88

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The one video card thing is likely what i will be doing anyways.. actually the size of the 8800 gts 512 took away that possibility anyways, IF it would fit it would be a tight squeeze and as you say is not that big of an advantage. the addition of power suckage and heat produced, aswell as the draw on the motherboard, would probably not be the best of decisions in most cases anyways.

I really do want to break away from dell tho. I have not been happy with them nor do i want to stick with the parts, but i would still like a decent case with similar cooling capabilities. I have noticed the dramatic change in prices cases are much cheaper then they used to be..

So i do plan to do that i just will have to switch back to the 8pin plug afterwards.. Yea it will be a pain to make it work but i feel as if i invested a little more in each product id be happier.. so i can hopefully have a decent power supply/ decent case/ decent mobo..

As I said nothing fancy just not LOW LOW budget thats not gonna last.. Not that my pentium D wont be obsolete and useless in 5 years but still something decent to work with that i can even upgrade mobo/processor later..

What would you recommend in the cheaper range as far as mobo's with atleast 8 (16 preferred) gig ram max thats sturdy with solid capacitors and a good brand? I think i got the power supply down but i really wouldnt know where to go with the mobo theres alot of cheaper functional ones out there i want one thats gonna last, also would be nice if it could hold up my monster heatsink somehow.. not sure if thats possible (not sure if heatsink is also proprietary, have seen similar before)

then also what would you recommend for a case? something with atleast 4 hard drive slots and of course 2 opticals and preferably 120+mm fan mounts EVERYWHERE.. i know the case doesnt really have to be special to hold up parts just has to be functional and have the proper mounts to add fans galore?

maybe a few good cases to lookup on craigslist that are salvageable broken computers? any ideas there?

If im overbuggin u with questions just let me know lol I tend to do that.. Sorry.. I appreciate all the input.
 
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dmfree88

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To sum all that up i probably cant even afford the 120 right now and honestly would prefer to make sure its something decent rather then something that works, so making this one work temporarily with the psu that i can switch later to the new case/mobo is my plan... just wont be able to get all at once and who knows maybe will just ride this one if it works decent till a proprietary problem arrises, slowly building the other one. But i still would like recommendations on where to go and which brands to focus on when i can afford it.. thanks =D
 
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delluser1

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In order to mod the psu to work with your board you will want one with dual cpu power connectors
Also don't think SLI GTS250 is the way to go
For a single card upto GTX570 ( or even SLI GTS250 ) this will do just fine
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151093
Says dual rails, it's not
Google " ATX pin removal "
Remove the Dell 10 pin connector
Then remove the 8 pin EPS connector and pull 1 yellow and 1 black wire from the 4+4 on the Seasonic
Then repin the Dell connector onto the Seasonic using those 10 wires
No cutting and splicing/soldering will save the warranty on the Seasonic and make it easier to move the psu forward into a new build

 
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Raiddinn

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The Cooler Master Elite 430 is the absolute minimum acceptable case for anyone that wants to have a stable PC.

The HAF 912 is probably where most everybody should be sitting.

However, I have to say that I do love my case very much. I got it last time on Black Friday and it was like 40% off. Lower than the regular price of a HAF 912 so I had to pull the trigger on it.

You will definitely want at least one side fan mount, the larger the better, and you definitely will want a removable cage. Two fans up top, two in the front, and one in the back are good things to have. The one in the floor on the front is pretty worthless so don't put a lot of value on that. I wouldn't get an micro case if I could avoid it. The more space in there the better the airflow, generally.

Motherboard - I trust Gigabyte and Asus. I would rather have the former than the latter. However, I got one from Asrock because it happened to be available at a really good deal when combod with my processor.

I would have rather gotten an Asus one with built in wireless if I could have done it over, but that is in hindsight. The one I have now is perfectly serviceable.

As long as you stick with those manufacturers, you shouldn't have to worry too much about quality in terms of bad capacitors and things.

It is mostly the bargain basement boards that you really have to worry about. The ones made by Foxconn for DELL in the mid 2000s were particularly bad. Zotac and MSI I would definitely stay away from. I heard some decent stuff about Biostar, but their track record isn't long enough for me to recommend them.

Do you really need 4 RAM slots? Do you really need 2x PCIE slots?

Micro boards are the real hidden gems in the motherboard world, offering huge bang for your buck if you can accept having less slots available.

The only people that really need 16GBs of RAM are people that do audio/video editing or use their computers as servers pretty much, and most nobody really needs 2 video cards.

I always get micro boards myself and I would recommend you do it too. It saves a lot of money.
 
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dmfree88

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Ya i should only need 1 pci-e slot and maybe 3 pci slots, more worried about enough fan hookups (seems most power supplies dont come with extra molex's nowadays) and rugged enough to handle a decent heatsink. and atleast 4 sata hookups.. seen many gigabyte and asus mobo's for decent prices i will have to look into that see which has what im lookin for. the 16 gb of ram would be for video conversion and editing aswell. i dont do it often but compiling of recordings and occasional conversions are always nice to be able to run quick.. 8gb should be more then sufficient though, and 2 slots is plenty. so ya i suppose you have helped best possible i greatly appreciate it.. thanks
 
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dmfree88

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Sorry just noticed your reply. your plan sounds proper and could easily be applied but the reviews for the seasonic are not good.. alot of DOA, and noisy after time goes by. which makes me question whether half the good ratings would have been bad if they had waited long enough to rate it. otherwise it looks like a good deal and a decent package. Of course its warrantied so eventually id get one that runs but how long?? ive just never heard of seasonic and the reviews make me weary, your idea makes more sense though. to find one that has a 8 pin and a 4 pin so i can just pull pins and not have to splice power, i appreciate that thought and will be considered when i do find a good psu
 
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Raiddinn

Raiddinn

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Seasonic is generally considered to be the best manufacturer by everyone here.

Any problem they have the other makers have 10x worse.

Quite frankly, I am surprised you could pull up so much negative comments on it.

I have never heard anyone complain they had a problem with their PSU when I suggested they get a Seasonic based PSU and that is all that I ever suggest.
 
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dmfree88

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well im glad to hear that then.. and if they are a good company to deal with then that would definetly be a good idea.. i thank you for the suggestion dell user.. will be hopefully getting that while its still on sale, the beginning of my road to UN-DeLL LoL
 
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dmfree88

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Just wanted to let everyone know this does work. Doing it Dell users way works. I myself couldnt get the pins out because I needed a special tool I didnt want to wait to get so heres what I ended up doing for those who may want to know:

I did end up getting the seasonic 620 watt bronze 80+ psu runs great highly recommended
I Was not able to find a decent way to mount it to the computer with good easy access.. i would imagine it is possible to run it through the original power supply hole mounted with some sort of strange stand but thats alot of crazy modding. So what I did was remove the plastic top cover of the computer and simply using a pair of dikes cut a hole in the air hole section of the top. The power supply simply just sits on top of the computer, not mounted, not attached in anyway and it has made no weird sounds/vibrations so It really hasnt been a bother, other then moving the computer having a loose power supply on top.

So after I got all that figured out As i said I was not able to remove the pins from the power connectors so I did decide to splice (voiding my power supply warranty) rather then buying the proper tool (probably cheap just wasnt time effective i was having a bad day and needed my game time LOL) So i initially tried like i stated and used the sata wire because it was exactly the same as the description stated in the dell website but that did not work. I hooked it up and it failed to power up. So i went back in and wired exactly as dell user said, it was quite simply all power wires on the top, all ground wires on bottom, the color of them were irrelevant because once I hooked them to a standard power wire it has fired up and ran for over a week now without an issue.

So sorry about the book, but to sum it all up it does work to swap the power supply as long as you have the time and dont mind a weird looking case with no plastic top and power supply sitting on top. If you have the proper tools you will easily be able to swap plugs adding a couple power wires. Honestly if there wasnt a capacitor right next to the 10pin plug you could put the 4 pin in right next to the 8 pin on the 10pin plug and it would work that way without even needing to swap. But the damn capacitor was in the way so unless i broke the 4-pin down into a 2pin i still had to swap plugs. thats always an option though if you can make that work.

Also if you do decide to splice i recommend being safe! and using something like shrink tube butt connectors AND tape! (i tested with just tape then redid the whole thing with shrink tube butt connectors and retaped)
 
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