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Don't hate me! =)

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June 15, 2012 7:15:51 AM

Hi,all!
I know this topic has been beat to death, BUT, I want to upgrade an old PC for my son. He is 11 and this is his first very own PC. I don't want to risk giving him something new and expensive in case he blows it up, lol. All he does is web surfing, you tube, and gaming. BFBC2 is the newest and most hardware demanding game he plays. The PC has a (here it goes) Gigabyte ga-m57sli-s4 rev 2.0 motherboard. I'm aware of the AM2 to AM2+ socket issues with the HT downgrade and the pain of finding the correct BIOS version for the AM2+ processors (especially the high end quad-cores). So all that aside, I would like to know what you guys think is the BEST quad-core processor for this board. I don't need to know why, just which one you'd recommend. I'm gonna give him a single GTX 460 for graphics and max out the DDR2 (800mhz) to 4 gigs. He'll be using win7 32bit. He has reliable power, a 750 watt Cooler Master PSU, with enough amps.
Let me know what you think, your thoughts are much appreciated!

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a b à CPUs
June 15, 2012 7:33:35 AM

why would we hate you?

you would be able to use 95w phenom IIs denebs, you'd probably need to buy them second hand since I don't think they make those any more.
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a b à CPUs
June 15, 2012 8:50:08 AM


^^+1 (find some on ebay)

Also only put in 2 GB's of RAM. The 32-bit OS will only address 4GB total (INCLUDING GDDR ON THE GRAPHICS CARD).

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a b à CPUs
June 15, 2012 8:55:07 AM

no thats not the case, the gddr in the graphics card is not addressed using the same space as the main memory so you can have as much of it as you want and main memory would not be affected even on a 32 bit OS.

It is only when you use a integrated gpu that pulls from main ram that it would use the memory space and thus cut down on the usable system ram.
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a c 283 à CPUs
June 15, 2012 9:03:36 AM

esrever said:
no thats not the case, the gddr in the graphics card is not addressed using the same space as the main memory so you can have as much of it as you want and main memory would not be affected even on a 32 bit OS.

It is only when you use a integrated gpu that pulls from main ram that it would use the memory space and thus cut down on the usable system ram.


I've had an argument about that with someone here before that I lost (or rather gave up on). :lol: 
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a b à CPUs
June 15, 2012 12:36:20 PM

from Microsofts own mouth: source ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop...)

How graphics cards and other devices affect memory limits?

Devices have to map their memory below 4 GB for compatibility with non-PAE-aware Windows releases. Therefore, if the system has 4GB of RAM, some of it is either disabled or is remapped above 4GB by the BIOS. If the memory is remapped, X64 Windows can use this memory. X86 client versions of Windows don’t support physical memory above the 4GB mark, so they can’t access these remapped regions. Any X64 Windows or X86 Server release can.

X86 client versions with PAE enabled do have a usable 37-bit (128 GB) physical address space. The limit that these versions impose is the highest permitted physical RAM address, not the size of the IO space. That means PAE-aware drivers can actually use physical space above 4 GB if they want. For example, drivers could map the "lost" memory regions located above 4 GB and expose this memory as a RAM disk.


READ IT AND WEEP LOOZORZ!
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a b à CPUs
June 15, 2012 12:43:07 PM

americanbrian said:
from Microsofts own mouth: source ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop...)

How graphics cards and other devices affect memory limits?

Devices have to map their memory below 4 GB for compatibility with non-PAE-aware Windows releases. Therefore, if the system has 4GB of RAM, some of it is either disabled or is remapped above 4GB by the BIOS. If the memory is remapped, X64 Windows can use this memory. X86 client versions of Windows don’t support physical memory above the 4GB mark, so they can’t access these remapped regions. Any X64 Windows or X86 Server release can.

X86 client versions with PAE enabled do have a usable 37-bit (128 GB) physical address space. The limit that these versions impose is the highest permitted physical RAM address, not the size of the IO space. That means PAE-aware drivers can actually use physical space above 4 GB if they want. For example, drivers could map the "lost" memory regions located above 4 GB and expose this memory as a RAM disk.


READ IT AND WEEP LOOZORZ!



or... 64bit ftw :whistle: 
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a b à CPUs
June 15, 2012 1:13:42 PM

I've got 3.25 GB usable RAM and a 1GB video card.
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a c 145 à CPUs
June 15, 2012 10:51:25 PM

Install win7-64 bit. Your MS key is good for either revision as long as its the same version (Home, Pro, ultimate). Why loose out on a gig of ram.
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June 15, 2012 11:50:00 PM

Just to be sure, can I upgrade to 64 bit win 7 with out losing programs and data? Compatability being an issue of course. But in general, ya know, kinda like upgrading from vista to 7. Pop the disk in, pick your options, and go.
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a c 175 à CPUs
June 16, 2012 12:05:00 AM

boggus77 said:
Just to be sure, can I upgrade to 64 bit win 7 with out losing programs and data? Compatability being an issue of course. But in general, ya know, kinda like upgrading from vista to 7. Pop the disk in, pick your options, and go.


It is not possible to upgrade from a 32 bit installation to a 64 bit installation. There are simply too many things that could be broken. You must format the drive and reinstall everything. You can of course restore backed up data but all applications should be reinstalled in 64 bit versions where possible. 32 bit applications will still run without issue
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a b à CPUs
June 16, 2012 1:01:50 AM

americanbrian said:
from Microsofts own mouth: source ( http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop...)

How graphics cards and other devices affect memory limits?

Devices have to map their memory below 4 GB for compatibility with non-PAE-aware Windows releases. Therefore, if the system has 4GB of RAM, some of it is either disabled or is remapped above 4GB by the BIOS. If the memory is remapped, X64 Windows can use this memory. X86 client versions of Windows don’t support physical memory above the 4GB mark, so they can’t access these remapped regions. Any X64 Windows or X86 Server release can.

X86 client versions with PAE enabled do have a usable 37-bit (128 GB) physical address space. The limit that these versions impose is the highest permitted physical RAM address, not the size of the IO space. That means PAE-aware drivers can actually use physical space above 4 GB if they want. For example, drivers could map the "lost" memory regions located above 4 GB and expose this memory as a RAM disk.


READ IT AND WEEP LOOZORZ!

actually defualt windows saves a segment of memory for space such as vram, even without a graphics card installed, the ram limit is about 3.25gbs. It doesn't matter what you do, windows 32bit can only recognize 3.25gb of ram. The vram will never place a limit on the system ram unless you configure a integrated gpu to use a larger segment of system ram.
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a b à CPUs
June 16, 2012 6:14:19 PM

^^ Not true,

A 2 GB Graphics card will be allocated space out of the 3.25GB OR the VRAM will be disabled in some proportion.

It is probably also the case the the guy up there with the 1GB card and 3.25GB system ram is not able to utilize 256MB on his card.

Argue with me all you want but microsoff spells it out fairly clearly.
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a b à CPUs
June 16, 2012 11:32:07 PM

americanbrian said:
^^ Not true,

A 2 GB Graphics card will be allocated space out of the 3.25GB OR the VRAM will be disabled in some proportion.

It is probably also the case the the guy up there with the 1GB card and 3.25GB system ram is not able to utilize 256MB on his card.

Argue with me all you want but microsoff spells it out fairly clearly.

No, Afterburner reports 1000+ MB VRAM usage in some games. Though you may be right, there would be room for that amount since I'm only using 2.7 GB RAM at the same time...
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a c 175 à CPUs
June 16, 2012 11:54:35 PM

jessterman21 said:
No, Afterburner reports 1000+ MB VRAM usage in some games. Though you may be right, there would be room for that amount since I'm only using 2.7 GB RAM at the same time...


It's a matter of mapping. Windows splits the 4GB virtual address space into two parts, Kernel space and user space. The most significant address bit is used to switch between them which makes them each 2GB by default. This is why 32 bit applications run into a 2GB memory space limit. The other 2GB is used to access shared kernel memory. PAE aware applications can can use multiple virtual address spaces to address more than 4GB of virtual memory but Microsoft limits 32 bit consumer versions of Windows to 4GB in total, nothing is mapped above the 4GB mark for marketing purposes. All 32 bit applications can be compiled with the /LARGEADDRESSAWARE flag which allows the application to expand the application's address space into what would normally be part of the Kernel's address space, raising the applications maximum memory usage to around 3GB.

It's important to remember that when talking about virtual memory we are not talking strictly about the system's SDRAM. The system's real memory consists of all the SDRAM, firmware, boot ROMs, video memory, hard drive cache, RAID controller cache, CPU cache, heck even some sound cards have memory. Not all of this memory is accessible but a lot of it is. The purpose of virtual memory is to bring all the forms of memory together and treat them the same regardless of their access time, physical connection, or logical significance. When the sum of all accessible forms of memory exceeds that of the virtual address space (which in the case of operating systems running in protected mode is 4GB) some of it must be sacrificed. The kernel establishes an order of importance and fits all of the non-SDRAM memory into address spaces reserved to itself. The actual SDRAM will be fit into whatever address space is left over. This is why kernel memory is so precious, it's limited and convoluted as all hell.
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June 17, 2012 2:23:38 AM

Best answer selected by boggus77.
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