Jordan

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1Up's 50 Most Important Games:

# of Xbox exclusives? 1
# of Dreamcast exclusives? 1
# of PS2 and Gamecube exclusives? - 0

Oh, sure, there are some goofball exceptions... I don't think there
should be an entry for "The Macintosh". If you're going to do that then
"The Commodore 64" and "The Amiga" need to be on the list somewhere.
Plus WTF is with the E.T. love all of a sudden? Other than that, pretty
sharp list.

The Games:

Essential 50 Club

1. Spacewar (1962: PDP-1)
2. Pong (1972: Arcade/Console)
3. Space Invaders (1978: Arcade)
4. Adventure (1979: Atari 2600)
5. Battlezone (1980: Arcade)
6. Pitfall! (1982: Atari 2600)
7. Zork (1977-79: DEC PDP-10)
8. Game & Watch (1980-88)
9. Star Wars (1983: Arcade)
10. Pac-Man (1980: Arcade)
11. Donkey Kong (1981: Arcade)
12. Rogue (1980: VAX/BSD UNIX)
13. E.T. (1982: Atari 2600)
14. Dragon's Lair (1983: Arcade)
15. King's Quest (1983: PC)
16. One-on-One (1983: C64)
17. Super Mario Bros. (1985: Arcade/NES)
18. Gauntlet (1985: Arcade)
19. M.U.L.E. (1983: C64)
20. Dragon Warrior (1986: NES)
21. Ultima IV (1985: Apple II/PC)
22. The Macintosh (1984)
23. Tetris (1986: PC/NES/GameBoy)
24. Prince of Persia (1989: PC)
25. FaceBall 2000 (1990: GameBoy)
26. Doom (1993: PC)
27. John Madden NFL Football (1990: Genesis)
28. Sonic the Hedgehog (1991: Genesis)
29. Super Mario Kart (1992: Super NES)
30. Populous (1989: Amiga/PC)
31. Herzog Zwei (1991: Genesis)
32. Street Fighter II (1991: Arcade)
33. Myst (1993: Mac/PC)
34. Mortal Kombat (1992: Arcade/SNES/Genesis)
35. Virtua Fighter (1993: Arcade/32X)
36. Super Mario 64 (1996: Nintendo 64)
37. Tomb Raider (1996: PS/Saturn/PC/Mac)
38. Final Fantasy VII (1997: PS/PC)
39. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater (1999: PS)
40. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998: N64)
41. Metal Gear Solid (1998: PS)
42. Half-Life (1998: PC)
43. Gran Turismo (1998: PS)
44. Parappa the Rapper (1997: PS)
45. Ultima Online (1997: PC)
46. Pokémon (1998: GameBoy)
47. The Sims (2000: PC)
48. Jet Grind Radio (2000: Dreamcast)
49. Grand Theft Auto III (2001: PS2/Xbox/PC)
50. Halo (2001: Xbox/PC/Mac)
 
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Jordan wrote:

> Plus WTF is with the E.T. love all of a sudden?

It helped ruin what was the single biggest player in the video games biz of
the time. You have to admit that's pretty impressive.

-Z-
 
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> 1Up's 50 Most Important Games:

Most important games?!

Where's Elite or Lemmings?

--
terry v
GT:terryfied
 
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ET is one of the worst games ever.



"Jordan" <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1109003130.984059.81160@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
1Up's 50 Most Important Games:

# of Xbox exclusives? 1
# of Dreamcast exclusives? 1
# of PS2 and Gamecube exclusives? - 0

Oh, sure, there are some goofball exceptions... I don't think there
should be an entry for "The Macintosh". If you're going to do that then
"The Commodore 64" and "The Amiga" need to be on the list somewhere.
Plus WTF is with the E.T. love all of a sudden? Other than that, pretty
sharp list.

The Games:

Essential 50 Club

1. Spacewar (1962: PDP-1)
2. Pong (1972: Arcade/Console)
3. Space Invaders (1978: Arcade)
4. Adventure (1979: Atari 2600)
5. Battlezone (1980: Arcade)
6. Pitfall! (1982: Atari 2600)
7. Zork (1977-79: DEC PDP-10)
8. Game & Watch (1980-88)
9. Star Wars (1983: Arcade)
10. Pac-Man (1980: Arcade)
11. Donkey Kong (1981: Arcade)
12. Rogue (1980: VAX/BSD UNIX)
13. E.T. (1982: Atari 2600)
14. Dragon's Lair (1983: Arcade)
15. King's Quest (1983: PC)
16. One-on-One (1983: C64)
17. Super Mario Bros. (1985: Arcade/NES)
18. Gauntlet (1985: Arcade)
19. M.U.L.E. (1983: C64)
20. Dragon Warrior (1986: NES)
21. Ultima IV (1985: Apple II/PC)
22. The Macintosh (1984)
23. Tetris (1986: PC/NES/GameBoy)
24. Prince of Persia (1989: PC)
25. FaceBall 2000 (1990: GameBoy)
26. Doom (1993: PC)
27. John Madden NFL Football (1990: Genesis)
28. Sonic the Hedgehog (1991: Genesis)
29. Super Mario Kart (1992: Super NES)
30. Populous (1989: Amiga/PC)
31. Herzog Zwei (1991: Genesis)
32. Street Fighter II (1991: Arcade)
33. Myst (1993: Mac/PC)
34. Mortal Kombat (1992: Arcade/SNES/Genesis)
35. Virtua Fighter (1993: Arcade/32X)
36. Super Mario 64 (1996: Nintendo 64)
37. Tomb Raider (1996: PS/Saturn/PC/Mac)
38. Final Fantasy VII (1997: PS/PC)
39. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater (1999: PS)
40. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998: N64)
41. Metal Gear Solid (1998: PS)
42. Half-Life (1998: PC)
43. Gran Turismo (1998: PS)
44. Parappa the Rapper (1997: PS)
45. Ultima Online (1997: PC)
46. Pokémon (1998: GameBoy)
47. The Sims (2000: PC)
48. Jet Grind Radio (2000: Dreamcast)
49. Grand Theft Auto III (2001: PS2/Xbox/PC)
50. Halo (2001: Xbox/PC/Mac)
 
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Irrat8ed wrote:

> ET is one of the worst games ever.

And it helped sink Atari and lost hundreds of millions of dollars for
Warner. This is a list of the most *important* games, not the best. In the
industry's history, E.T. is a hugely important game.

-Z-
 
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"Jordan" <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1109003130.984059.81160@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

IMO this list is ok at best
 
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Zackman <zackman@spamisevilearthling.net> wrote:
> Jordan wrote:

> > Plus WTF is with the E.T. love all of a sudden?

> It helped ruin what was the single biggest player in the video games biz of
> the time. You have to admit that's pretty impressive.

Yes, but is it *important*? It didn't really add anything ground breaking
to video games or anything like. Sure, it's the Hinderburg of the video
game industry, but important?
 
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Jordan <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 1Up's 50 Most Important Games:

> # of Xbox exclusives? 1
> # of Dreamcast exclusives? 1
> # of PS2 and Gamecube exclusives? - 0

> Oh, sure, there are some goofball exceptions... I don't think there
> should be an entry for "The Macintosh". If you're going to do that then
> "The Commodore 64" and "The Amiga" need to be on the list somewhere.
> Plus WTF is with the E.T. love all of a sudden? Other than that, pretty
> sharp list.

Old list. Old article. Already discussed it, but here we go again...

> The Games:

> Essential 50 Club

> 22. The Macintosh (1984)

Why is "The Macintosh" here? It's not a game, nor is it really that big
of a gaming platform. Perhaps they were talking about it's ability use a
mouse with games? But why is that so ground breaking when you already had
games using the trackball - which is just an upside-down mouse. Are they
talking about games using mouse+keyboard? Even then you had Star Warrior,
or what was that game for the 2600 which used a keypad plus your
joystick. I don't understand this entry at all. If they were looking for
computers that made an impact on gaming, they should have looked at the
C64 or the Apple ][ series, or even the Amiga.

> 48. Jet Grind Radio (2000: Dreamcast)

This is another entry I don't understand. It just seems like a poor
rip-off of Tony Hawk, only on large (invisible) rails. Maybe you could point
to it as an early example of cel-shaded graphics, but I hardly consider that
to be "important" to gaming. Yeah, it had some nice features, but I could
never get into it after playing Tony Hawk where you could go anywhere and
still pull tricks off anything.

(oops, I erased too much)

Halo is another entry that makes me wonder. Doom begat Halo. What's so
important about Halo? Sure, Halo is important to Microsoft in that it
sold a bunch of Xboxes, but if we're talking about FPS-style games that
add something to the genre, why not System Shock, Thief, or Half Life?

And why not any number of other games I can think of off-hand:

Dune2 - not the first RTS, but certainly the one that sparked whole genre.

Microsoft Flight Simulator - The oldest flight sim out there.

Dark Castle - Platform/adventure game.

Mech Warrior (arcade/mech warrior center) - early networked multiplayer.
Yeah, so what if it cost $10/game?
 

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Doug Jacobs wrote:
snip
> > 48. Jet Grind Radio (2000: Dreamcast)
>
> This is another entry I don't understand. It just seems like a poor
> rip-off of Tony Hawk, only on large (invisible) rails. Maybe you could point
> to it as an early example of cel-shaded graphics, but I hardly consider that
> to be "important" to gaming. Yeah, it had some nice features, but I could
> never get into it after playing Tony Hawk where you could go anywhere and
> still pull tricks off anything.

That's why I liked JGR and didn't like Tony Hawk.

>
> (oops, I erased too much)
>
> Halo is another entry that makes me wonder. Doom begat Halo. What's so
> important about Halo? Sure, Halo is important to Microsoft in that it
> sold a bunch of Xboxes, but if we're talking about FPS-style games that
> add something to the genre, why not System Shock, Thief, or Half Life?

Marathon begat Halo. Marathon was made by Bungie and came out in 1992;
Doom was made by iD and came out in 1993. And Marathon is a far better
game than Doom (it looked better, it had a kick ass story, Appletalk
networked death match was very satisfying with voice communication,
etc.); but as it was only on the Mac, the mouth breathing PC public
refuses to remember it.
But yes, it's Marathon that should be on the list, not Halo.
 
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Doug Jacobs wrote:

> Yes, but is it *important*? It didn't really add anything ground
> breaking to video games or anything like. Sure, it's the Hinderburg
> of the video game industry, but important?

That's actually a pretty good analogy. The Hindenberg killed the idea of
travel by diri... dirgi... blimp during its day, even though the only real
problem with it was that it was filled with hydrogen. E.T. was an important
game because it stands as a symbol for the death of video gaming as it
existed in the early 80s. If ET had been the best game of its time, the
industry might not have crashed so violently, if at all.

-Z-
 
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Doug Jacobs wrote:

> Why is "The Macintosh" here?

Good question. The C64 should nave been here instead.

> 48. Jet Grind Radio (2000: Dreamcast)
>
> This is another entry I don't understand.

I think JGR was hugely, tragically underrated and misunderstood, but I don't
think I'd call it one of the most important games of all time either.

> Halo is another entry that makes me wonder. Doom begat Halo. What's
> so important about Halo?

This one I agree with. If Halo hadn't been a hit, the Xbox probably would
never have got off the ground and could very well have been totally ignored
by gamers and died an early death. Halo gave the Xbox the toehold it needed
to survive and be taken seriously as a competitor in the biz.

-Z-
 

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"Doug Jacobs" <djacobs@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:111nmvspj2gi4dc@corp.supernews.com...
> Zackman <zackman@spamisevilearthling.net> wrote:
>> Jordan wrote:
>
>> > Plus WTF is with the E.T. love all of a sudden?
>
>> It helped ruin what was the single biggest player in the video games biz
>> of
>> the time. You have to admit that's pretty impressive.
>
> Yes, but is it *important*? It didn't really add anything ground breaking
> to video games or anything like. Sure, it's the Hinderburg of the video
> game industry, but important?
>

That's Hindenburg for all that have no idea what Dug Jacobs means:
http://www.vidicom-tv.com/tohiburg.htm
 
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"Ted" <nospamforted@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:421BE5B1.EEA797F6@nospam.com...
>
>
> Doug Jacobs wrote:
> snip
> > > 48. Jet Grind Radio (2000: Dreamcast)
> >
> > This is another entry I don't understand. It just seems like a poor
> > rip-off of Tony Hawk, only on large (invisible) rails. Maybe you could
point
> > to it as an early example of cel-shaded graphics, but I hardly consider
that
> > to be "important" to gaming. Yeah, it had some nice features, but I
could
> > never get into it after playing Tony Hawk where you could go anywhere
and
> > still pull tricks off anything.
>
> That's why I liked JGR and didn't like Tony Hawk.

either way, Hawk was a *far* more influential game than JGR was, in fact I
can't think of a single game which could have had JGR as an inspiration (not
counting the sequel of course) and Hawk created an entire genre of games.

> >
> > (oops, I erased too much)
> >
> > Halo is another entry that makes me wonder. Doom begat Halo. What's so
> > important about Halo? Sure, Halo is important to Microsoft in that it
> > sold a bunch of Xboxes, but if we're talking about FPS-style games that
> > add something to the genre, why not System Shock, Thief, or Half Life?
>
> Marathon begat Halo. Marathon was made by Bungie and came out in 1992;
> Doom was made by iD and came out in 1993. And Marathon is a far better
> game than Doom (it looked better, it had a kick ass story, Appletalk
> networked death match was very satisfying with voice communication,
> etc.); but as it was only on the Mac, the mouth breathing PC public
> refuses to remember it.
> But yes, it's Marathon that should be on the list, not Halo.

absolutely..... but I wouldn't say that the PC world refuses to remember
it.... most people had no clue what the hell it was, if Bungie had released
it on PC perhaps they would be the 'id' of the PC world today.
 
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"Ted" <nospamforted@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:421CAB5C.A123BCF6@nospam.com...
>
>
> Keith Schiffner wrote:
> snip
>> Not to be pedantic but that is urban myth. The
>> culprit was the paint...most of the hydrogen
>> escaped without burning.
> snip
>
> That is not agreed upon
> http://spot.colorado.edu/~dziadeck/zf/LZ129fire2005jan12.pdf

yep and while I've not used the aluminized paints
I have used paint that was VERY similar. It's
called Dope...Butyrate and or Nitrate. Even when
dry it's flammable stuffed. I've watched the
footage, the fire starts on the outside not the
inside. Ergo Hydrogen wasn't the culprit. BTW nice
page!

--
Keith Schiffner
Assistant to the Assistant Undersecretary of the
Ministry of Silly Walks.
"terrorist organization" is a redundancy
 

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Wurm wrote:
snip
> either way, Hawk was a *far* more influential game than JGR was, in fact I
> can't think of a single game which could have had JGR as an inspiration (not
> counting the sequel of course) and Hawk created an entire genre of games.

Which genre? Extreme sports? Skate or Die would be an earlier successful
example, with TH being a breakthru. And that is an incredibly shitty
genre overall.

snip
> absolutely..... but I wouldn't say that the PC world refuses to remember
> it.... most people had no clue what the hell it was, if Bungie had released
> it on PC perhaps they would be the 'id' of the PC world today.

Then thank whatever it is people thank that Bungie didn't do that...
 
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"Ted" <nospamforted@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:421CD04B.C77B7DDD@nospam.com...
>
>
> Wurm wrote:
> snip
> > either way, Hawk was a *far* more influential game than JGR was, in fact
I
> > can't think of a single game which could have had JGR as an inspiration
(not
> > counting the sequel of course) and Hawk created an entire genre of
games.
>
> Which genre? Extreme sports? Skate or Die would be an earlier successful
> example, with TH being a breakthru. And that is an incredibly shitty
> genre overall.

I remember the old Skate or Die and although I enjoyed it back in the day, I
wouldn't really put em together. I was referring more to the pro surfer, pro
biker (or whatever the bmx ones are called) line of games, and we see uses
of Hawk style griding and tricking in many other sports games like the SSX
series. Perhaps it didn't completely define the genre, but it did re-define
the genre spawning a host of copycat games. And just because you dont like
that style of game doesn't make it a shitty genre whatsoever..... I can't
stand racing games or platformers, does that make GT4, and the Jak series
shitty?

> snip
> > absolutely..... but I wouldn't say that the PC world refuses to remember
> > it.... most people had no clue what the hell it was, if Bungie had
released
> > it on PC perhaps they would be the 'id' of the PC world today.
>
> Then thank whatever it is people thank that Bungie didn't do that...

why?..... its a good thing that Bungie didn't get the credit or payment that
they deserved?....
 

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Keith Schiffner wrote:
>
> "Ted" <nospamforted@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:421CAB5C.A123BCF6@nospam.com...
> >
> >
> > Keith Schiffner wrote:
> > snip
> >> Not to be pedantic but that is urban myth. The
> >> culprit was the paint...most of the hydrogen
> >> escaped without burning.
> > snip
> >
> > That is not agreed upon
> > http://spot.colorado.edu/~dziadeck/zf/LZ129fire2005jan12.pdf
>
> yep and while I've not used the aluminized paints
> I have used paint that was VERY similar. It's
> called Dope...Butyrate and or Nitrate. Even when
> dry it's flammable stuffed. I've watched the
> footage, the fire starts on the outside not the
> inside. Ergo Hydrogen wasn't the culprit.

That is not a logical statement; to ignite, hydrogen needs oxygen; the
hydrogen in the blimp would encounter the oxygen at the skin of the
blimp; that's also where a spark would encounter the gas.

BTW nice
> page!

It's not mine.
 

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Wurm wrote:
>
> "Ted" <nospamforted@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:421CD04B.C77B7DDD@nospam.com...
> >
> >
> > Wurm wrote:
> > snip
> > > either way, Hawk was a *far* more influential game than JGR was, in fact
> I
> > > can't think of a single game which could have had JGR as an inspiration
> (not
> > > counting the sequel of course) and Hawk created an entire genre of
> games.
> >
> > Which genre? Extreme sports? Skate or Die would be an earlier successful
> > example, with TH being a breakthru. And that is an incredibly shitty
> > genre overall.
>
> I remember the old Skate or Die and although I enjoyed it back in the day, I
> wouldn't really put em together. I was referring more to the pro surfer, pro
> biker (or whatever the bmx ones are called) line of games, and we see uses
> of Hawk style griding and tricking in many other sports games like the SSX
> series. Perhaps it didn't completely define the genre, but it did re-define
> the genre spawning a host of copycat games. And just because you dont like
> that style of game doesn't make it a shitty genre whatsoever..... I can't
> stand racing games or platformers, does that make GT4, and the Jak series
> shitty?

As I hate both those games, I'm probably not the one to ask.
I liked Skate or Die (2, technically) and I liked JGR. So the genre
itself isn't unredeemable. But I can't think of any of the Xgame types
that have been anything more than the effort to grind them under foot.

>
> > snip
> > > absolutely..... but I wouldn't say that the PC world refuses to remember
> > > it.... most people had no clue what the hell it was, if Bungie had
> released
> > > it on PC perhaps they would be the 'id' of the PC world today.
> >
> > Then thank whatever it is people thank that Bungie didn't do that...
>
> why?..... its a good thing that Bungie didn't get the credit or payment that
> they deserved?....

I don't find iD as a company to be an especially worthwhile producer.
Better for Bungie to have had 6 years of relative quiet after Marathon
Infinity and to then come out with a decent game than to come out with
Doom 3.
 
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"Ted" <nospamforted@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:421CD8BA.CF3C751B@nospam.com...
>
>
> Wurm wrote:
> >
> > "Ted" <nospamforted@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:421CD04B.C77B7DDD@nospam.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > Wurm wrote:
<snippage>
>
> > > snip
> > > > absolutely..... but I wouldn't say that the PC world refuses to
remember
> > > > it.... most people had no clue what the hell it was, if Bungie had
> > released
> > > > it on PC perhaps they would be the 'id' of the PC world today.
> > >
> > > Then thank whatever it is people thank that Bungie didn't do that...
> >
> > why?..... its a good thing that Bungie didn't get the credit or payment
that
> > they deserved?....
>
> I don't find iD as a company to be an especially worthwhile producer.
> Better for Bungie to have had 6 years of relative quiet after Marathon
> Infinity and to then come out with a decent game than to come out with
> Doom 3.

well, dont look at id as a producer, look at them as developers which is
what they primarily are.... and considering that they pretty much single
handedly created and popularized the genre, saying that they aren't
especially worthwhile is .... well ..... nuts.
 
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Ted <nospamforted@nospam.com> wrote:

> Which genre? Extreme sports? Skate or Die would be an earlier successful
> example, with TH being a breakthru. And that is an incredibly shitty
> genre overall.

Was Skate Or Die (or even 720) all that successful? Yeah, it was the
earlier example, but it's the same reason Castle Wolfenstein 3d isn't on
the list, but Doom is - popularity.

Even then, few games have come close to matching the sheer openess and
freedom of the Tony Hawk games.
 

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Wurm wrote:
>
> "Ted" <nospamforted@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:421CD8BA.CF3C751B@nospam.com...
> >
> >
> > Wurm wrote:
> > >
> > > "Ted" <nospamforted@nospam.com> wrote in message
> > > news:421CD04B.C77B7DDD@nospam.com...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wurm wrote:
> <snippage>
> >
> > > > snip
> > > > > absolutely..... but I wouldn't say that the PC world refuses to
> remember
> > > > > it.... most people had no clue what the hell it was, if Bungie had
> > > released
> > > > > it on PC perhaps they would be the 'id' of the PC world today.
> > > >
> > > > Then thank whatever it is people thank that Bungie didn't do that...
> > >
> > > why?..... its a good thing that Bungie didn't get the credit or payment
> that
> > > they deserved?....
> >
> > I don't find iD as a company to be an especially worthwhile producer.
> > Better for Bungie to have had 6 years of relative quiet after Marathon
> > Infinity and to then come out with a decent game than to come out with
> > Doom 3.
>
> well, dont look at id as a producer, look at them as developers which is
> what they primarily are.... and considering that they pretty much single
> handedly created and popularized the genre, saying that they aren't
> especially worthwhile is .... well ..... nuts.

They didn't create the genre. Not singlehandedly, not helping it along;
they just didn't do it.
Popularizing the genre also doesn't make them worthwhile; having a
popular genre makes it easy to find Live players on Halo 2, but it also
means a bunch of those players will be screaming "bitch" in their masked
12 year old voice and singing their ass off before a match.
But even granting that Doom made the genre popular and that that's a
good thing, why does that make iD worth my while now?