GT4 impressions from the XBOX crowd?

Scott

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Wondering what the rest of you guys think about GT4 (this is not
cross-posted)?

I picked it up last night and have been playing arcade for a couple hours.
I have to say I'm really unimpressed by this one. The gameplay seems about
the same -- good/great in many ways and shamefully bad in others. I suppose
I was expecting more graphically too -- that's probably the biggest let down
since I didn't really expect them to improve the gameplay flaws since they
apparently don't understand there are any. I've got a nice Sony HDTV and
frankly I just don't see a heckuva lot of difference in any of the
settings -- the difference is probably there, but my eyes just focus on how
poor the picture is overall. That's probably because with the exception of
maybe 20 hours of GTA:SA I haven't played the PS2 at all in the last several
months and haven't played GT3 in about a year, and I've kinda forgotten how
far behind the XBOX the old PS2 is. However, I feel confident there are
only very slight graphical improvements since GT3, which is kinda sad given
all the delays. Practically the same game, looks about the same, and still
no online. WTF were they doing the last several years?

My .02, but I wonder what everyone else thinks?
 
G

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Pluvious wrote:
> From what I've seen, I'm not impressed. It looks hard as hell to
drive
> and that's NOT FUN. Fun has been mysteriously vanishing and now we
get
> agravation instead with most new games.
>
> I think the online component of Forza Motorsport will be a really
> strong point that GT4 won't be able to overcome.
>
> Preview of Forza:
>
>
http://www.experiencegaming.com/content.php?gameID=3359&contentID=2721

I found these screenshot comparisons over at gamefaqs.com

http://www.forzacentral.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=12

Note: The GT4 shots are on the left side, the Forza shots on the right.
 
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Ollie T wrote:
> It looks nice in HDTV. It is still a sort of upscaled 480i image and
not a
> true 1080i.

What does that mean exactly?
 
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It's what Xbox Fanboys want Forza to be, but doesn't appear to be close to.

Skye

"Scott" <nothanks@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:3vKTd.54915$4q6.16612@attbi_s01...
> Wondering what the rest of you guys think about GT4 (this is not
> cross-posted)?
>
> I picked it up last night and have been playing arcade for a couple hours.
> I have to say I'm really unimpressed by this one. The gameplay seems
about
> the same -- good/great in many ways and shamefully bad in others. I
suppose
> I was expecting more graphically too -- that's probably the biggest let
down
> since I didn't really expect them to improve the gameplay flaws since they
> apparently don't understand there are any. I've got a nice Sony HDTV and
> frankly I just don't see a heckuva lot of difference in any of the
> settings -- the difference is probably there, but my eyes just focus on
how
> poor the picture is overall. That's probably because with the exception
of
> maybe 20 hours of GTA:SA I haven't played the PS2 at all in the last
several
> months and haven't played GT3 in about a year, and I've kinda forgotten
how
> far behind the XBOX the old PS2 is. However, I feel confident there are
> only very slight graphical improvements since GT3, which is kinda sad
given
> all the delays. Practically the same game, looks about the same, and
still
> no online. WTF were they doing the last several years?
>
> My .02, but I wonder what everyone else thinks?
>
>
 

Pluvious

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From what I've seen, I'm not impressed. It looks hard as hell to drive
and that's NOT FUN. Fun has been mysteriously vanishing and now we get
agravation instead with most new games.

I think the online component of Forza Motorsport will be a really
strong point that GT4 won't be able to overcome.

Preview of Forza:

http://www.experiencegaming.com/content.php?gameID=3359&contentID=2721


Pluvious
 
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"Pluvious" <Pluvious@knowhere.com> wrote in message
news:vi0v11l4l0p0b1cu77gt61ti8ub634110c@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> From what I've seen, I'm not impressed. It looks hard as hell to drive
> and that's NOT FUN. Fun has been mysteriously vanishing and now we get
> agravation instead with most new games.

2 friends of mine (I didn't purchase GT4... still on the fence, probably
going to take a pass) are breezing thru GT4.
Nothing really hard about it, they say.

> I think the online component of Forza Motorsport will be a really
> strong point that GT4 won't be able to overcome.

I can't believe they didn't include online for GT4.
That is the biggest reason I have not picked it up yet and most likely will
pass on it.
 

Scott

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"Skye" <carolinaconvicts2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a5LTd.14855$x53.7046@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> It's what Xbox Fanboys want Forza to be, but doesn't appear to be close
> to.
>

lol, I haven't really been following Forza or getting my hopes up. I don't
know if any game will have that 'je ne sais quois' that GT has, but there
are already XBOX games that play better *overall* and look better too IMHO.
(When I say 'je ne sais quois' I mean it literally, btw, even though I keep
buying the GT games ;-)
 

Scott

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"Robert P Holley" <holleyrp@delanet.com> wrote in message
news:1109361888.880806.238800@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Pluvious wrote:
>> From what I've seen, I'm not impressed. It looks hard as hell to
> drive
>> and that's NOT FUN. Fun has been mysteriously vanishing and now we
> get
>> agravation instead with most new games.
>>
>> I think the online component of Forza Motorsport will be a really
>> strong point that GT4 won't be able to overcome.
>>
>> Preview of Forza:
>>
>>
> http://www.experiencegaming.com/content.php?gameID=3359&contentID=2721
>
> I found these screenshot comparisons over at gamefaqs.com
>
> http://www.forzacentral.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=12
>
> Note: The GT4 shots are on the left side, the Forza shots on the right.
>

Nice, I'd like to see GT3 and GT4 compared side by side in common
settings...
 
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It looks nice in HDTV. It is still a sort of upscaled 480i image and not a
true 1080i. If you want more to compare to, there are about 30+ Xbox games
that are 720p +. You can find out which games support what at
http://www.hdtvarcade.com


"Scott" <nothanks@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:3vKTd.54915$4q6.16612@attbi_s01...
> Wondering what the rest of you guys think about GT4 (this is not
> cross-posted)?
>
> I picked it up last night and have been playing arcade for a couple hours.
> I have to say I'm really unimpressed by this one. The gameplay seems
> about the same -- good/great in many ways and shamefully bad in others. I
> suppose I was expecting more graphically too -- that's probably the
> biggest let down since I didn't really expect them to improve the gameplay
> flaws since they apparently don't understand there are any. I've got a
> nice Sony HDTV and frankly I just don't see a heckuva lot of difference in
> any of the settings -- the difference is probably there, but my eyes just
> focus on how poor the picture is overall. That's probably because with
> the exception of maybe 20 hours of GTA:SA I haven't played the PS2 at all
> in the last several months and haven't played GT3 in about a year, and
> I've kinda forgotten how far behind the XBOX the old PS2 is. However, I
> feel confident there are only very slight graphical improvements since
> GT3, which is kinda sad given all the delays. Practically the same game,
> looks about the same, and still no online. WTF were they doing the last
> several years?
>
> My .02, but I wonder what everyone else thinks?
>
 
G

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"Ollie T" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:XFMTd.52489$911.35957@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> It looks nice in HDTV. It is still a sort of upscaled 480i image and not
a
> true 1080i. If you want more to compare to, there are about 30+ Xbox
games
> that are 720p +. You can find out which games support what at
> http://www.hdtvarcade.com
>

Do you own hdtvarcade.com or something?
 

Scott

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"Jeremy Reaban" <jer@connectria.com> wrote in message
news:111v4q4glkfms8c@corp.supernews.com...
> Scott wrote:
>> Wondering what the rest of you guys think about GT4 (this is not
>> cross-posted)?
>>
>> I picked it up last night and have been playing arcade for a couple
>> hours. I have to say I'm really unimpressed by this one. The
>> gameplay seems about the same -- good/great in many ways and
>> shamefully bad in others.
> <snip>
>
> I'm enjoying it quite a bit.
>
> The graphics on some courses are very very good, on others (mostly the
> old GT3 tracks updated), the graphics aren't that great. What is
> impressive is that they managed to get real time reflections off the
> hood in hood view and 60 fps.
>

hmmm, I have seen some nicer tracks now that I've been playing longer. When
I say nicer I mean that the backgrounds and general environment are
stunning--if that's what people mean by "impressive visuals", but I find
that the stuff near the road like trees, rails, fence posts and such look
pretty bad while running the race. Headache kinda stuff. Even when the
race is not running, like at the start on Laguna Seca, the fence posts kinda
flash like the game can't render fast enough or something, very annoying.

I'm getting the hang of it though and digging it for the most part, after
the letdown.
 

Scott

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"Ollie T" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:XFMTd.52489$911.35957@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> It looks nice in HDTV.

As I said, I'm playing in HD already. I see no significant difference
between 480i/p or 1080i on my TV, although I know that on some TV's 480p
probably does make a difference. On any TV though, I have feeling that
calling this game 1080i is more of a gimmick than anything.
 
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"Robert P Holley" <holleyrp@delanet.com> wrote in message
news:1109366797.753632.86780@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Ollie T wrote:
>> It looks nice in HDTV. It is still a sort of upscaled 480i image and
> not a
>> true 1080i.
>
> What does that mean exactly?
>

A lot more about that in this thread:
http://www.hdtvarcade.com/hdtvforum/viewtopic.php?t=1257
 

Dave

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In article <3vKTd.54915$4q6.16612@attbi_s01>, "Scott" <nothanks@mailinator.com> wrote:
>Wondering what the rest of you guys think about GT4 (this is not
>cross-posted)?

I pretty much agreed with your thoughts. I've been waiting for
the game for over a year, and while I'll get 100's of hours out
of it, I'm a bit disappointed. Yes, IMHO, the GT series is the
best console racing series. Yes, GT4 is the best yet. But it is
incremental from GT3. More cars. Great. More real tracks
including the Nurburgring. Even better. Return to the used cars.
I like. The handling might be improved. The NFS and PGR crowd
might find it tough. But simmers will like it.

1080i? Get my hopes up, but as others say, 1080i doesn't look
much better than 480i. And I'm not sure how much of an
improvement over GT3. I'll get some use out of the B-spec mode,
if only to avoid 30 lap test course races (yawn). AI is awful as
usual. No online (doesn't matter to me). No crashes or damage
(not a biggie for me). Still no dashes, but at least convertibles
are now drop-top.

Again, a disappointment in that instead of addressing what GT fans
have been crying for, they just incrementally improved the areas
which were already excellent. And added silly stuff like the
photo mode.

We'll see if Forza can deliver at this level or, hope upon hope,
higher.
 

Magus

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Here is my thoughts as well:

The graphics are beautiful - if you are referring to the car alone. The
background and spectators are ho-hum. I really do not understand why all
the magazines made such a big deal of its graphics. It looks nice, but it's
not going to make me piss all over myself in glee.

I'm a big racing nut, and I could look past these graphical flaws. I played
GT3 to hell and back, bought two of those Logitech wheels because I needed
the pure racing experience. I basically owned every car and loved the game.
But at the same time, I wanted something more out of the gameplay. For
GT3, since it was new and on a new next-gen system, I really didn't mind
some of the glaring gameplay flaws. I don't know about you guys, but I have
yet to see a car ram another in front of it at full speed into a 35-40+ max
hairpin turn, use him as a pin-cushion, and accelerate away unscathe. Weak.
But like I said, GT3 was still sweet and I looked past this and other flaws
(ie: like the super dumb A.I.).

Now with GT4, Poly really had no excuses. I think they spent more time
making the car look slightly prettier, sound prettier, and control a little
bit better. I do tons of real life amateur racing and driven many cars,
and, well, this game still has a few ways to go to catch that real racing
experience. I don't mind the 'no damage appearance' features of the car,
but they could at least put some strict penalties on ramming your
compettiors into the wall to overtake him. And the A.I. is still very very
very very very dumb. And the car's handling, despite it being called a real
life simulator, still needs some work to feel 'rea'. It still has that
arcade feel to it - but maybe I'm just wishing for too much????

And the last thing: I bought the game w/out reading reviews because I loved
the GT series (up until now that is, heh) with the new Logitech steering
wheel. I just want to make a quick comparison: If you have the old wheel,
save your cash. The new one is nice, very nice if you don't have one yet.
It comes highly recommended, but there really isn't all that much of a
difference in the 'feel' of the wheel. The force feedback is only
marginally better, not overwhelmingly better, and I was dissapointed to see
that, for $150, I didn't get force feedback accelerate/brakes either. And a
6 speed shifter would've been nice for that kind of money. Overall, not
impressed, but since I love racing, well, I got it, only just to have a
little more authentic racing.

To sum it up, GT4 is a nice game, but it's flaws are becoming ever more so
apparent. I'm really not looking forward to GT5 if Poly doesn't fix this
game up and make it a true racing simulator. For now, I hope the
competitions start cranking it up and give GT a run for its money - that
way, I'm sure we'll see improvements. As it stands, the developer focused
more on polishing up the graphics (if ever so slightly) from GT3 and adding
a bunch of new cars to play with, rather than spend time making the gameplay
more interesting. As with the lack of online play, with these glaring
gameplay problems, I'm glad that it was never implemented. I could see
about a few dozen ways to cheat in the game. Someone could just take a
super fast car and keep ramming you to death, for instance, whenever you
take the lead. I doubt most races would be fair, LOL.

- The Great Magus
 

Dave

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In article <k%UTd.9591$Pz7.768@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>, "Magus" <mmagus@cs.com> wrote:
>Here is my thoughts as well:

You've pretty much nailed it. It's to GT3 as GT2 was to GT1.
Not much more. I can't understand why a group that takes such
obvious loving pride into their offspring does not work on the
areas that are known deficient. Hmm, maybe that offspring
reference is the key: they can't see its flaws?
 
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>Again, a disappointment in that instead of addressing what GT fans
>have been crying for, they just incrementally improved the areas
>which were already excellent. And added silly stuff like the
>photo mode.


My sentiments exactly.

Great game with some great changes/additions.

However, they have yet to address complaints/issues that have plagued
the series since it started.


That said, for what it is, it is certainly the best of the lot.
 
G

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i don't think i'll buy another lifelike racing game until they actually
penalize you for driving poorly (like actual crash damage). it really can't
get better than GT3 without crash damage. What more is there?


"Scott" <nothanks@mailinator.com> wrote in message
news:3vKTd.54915$4q6.16612@attbi_s01...
> Wondering what the rest of you guys think about GT4 (this is not
> cross-posted)?
>
> I picked it up last night and have been playing arcade for a couple hours.
> I have to say I'm really unimpressed by this one. The gameplay seems
> about the same -- good/great in many ways and shamefully bad in others. I
> suppose I was expecting more graphically too -- that's probably the
> biggest let down since I didn't really expect them to improve the gameplay
> flaws since they apparently don't understand there are any. I've got a
> nice Sony HDTV and frankly I just don't see a heckuva lot of difference in
> any of the settings -- the difference is probably there, but my eyes just
> focus on how poor the picture is overall. That's probably because with
> the exception of maybe 20 hours of GTA:SA I haven't played the PS2 at all
> in the last several months and haven't played GT3 in about a year, and
> I've kinda forgotten how far behind the XBOX the old PS2 is. However, I
> feel confident there are only very slight graphical improvements since
> GT3, which is kinda sad given all the delays. Practically the same game,
> looks about the same, and still no online. WTF were they doing the last
> several years?
>
> My .02, but I wonder what everyone else thinks?
>
 
G

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I think graphically, it's the best looking game I've ever seen on the PS2,
in fact I'd say it's one of the best, if not THE best looking racing game
for any console, XBOX, PS2, Gamecube, etc.

That said, it does have some major flaws...

First the screen shakes and blurs frequently at the start of races, which is
VERY annoying.
I've heard that if you have an HDTV and run the game in HD mode, like 1080i
or whatever, that this problem goes away, but I've only got a standard TV
set, and I'd guess that most people who buy this do too.

I can't believe that after a year and 1/2 to 2 years of delays, that Sony
would release this game with THIS big of a bug!

I also think the Nurburgring is too narrow (at least compared with Project
Gotham Racing 2) although maybe it's more realistic? And it seems like it's
too short. Almost like certain sections of the track have been compressed or
something..

I'm also not happy about the inability to transfer cars and more licenses
from GT3, you can only transfer your A and B license, and only 100,000
credits from game to game.

Oh well.... Have to wait for Forza and Enthusia to come out for the next BIG
THING in console racing I guess..

Jay J



<padams27@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:6j222111o73ecp67n4leb5qjjqn4jidjnh@4ax.com...
>
>>Again, a disappointment in that instead of addressing what GT fans
>>have been crying for, they just incrementally improved the areas
>>which were already excellent. And added silly stuff like the
>>photo mode.
>
>
> My sentiments exactly.
>
> Great game with some great changes/additions.
>
> However, they have yet to address complaints/issues that have plagued
> the series since it started.
>
>
> That said, for what it is, it is certainly the best of the lot.
 
G

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Dave wrote:

> We'll see if Forza can deliver at this level or, hope upon hope,
> higher.

While GT4 might be a little bit of a disappointment to fans (haven't played
it yet, but I plan to) I don't think Forza is going to compete against it
except (maybe) graphically and of course the fact that it's online. Despite
Skye's Sony ass-reaming masturbatory fantasies, no sensible person thinks
Forza is going to outclass the GT series.

-Z-
 
G

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Jay J wrote:
> I think graphically, it's the best looking game I've ever seen on the PS2,
> in fact I'd say it's one of the best, if not THE best looking racing game
> for any console, XBOX, PS2, Gamecube, etc.
>
> That said, it does have some major flaws...
>
> First the screen shakes and blurs frequently at the start of races, which is
> VERY annoying.
> I've heard that if you have an HDTV and run the game in HD mode, like 1080i
> or whatever, that this problem goes away, but I've only got a standard TV
> set, and I'd guess that most people who buy this do too.
>
> I can't believe that after a year and 1/2 to 2 years of delays, that Sony
> would release this game with THIS big of a bug!
>
> I also think the Nurburgring is too narrow (at least compared with Project
> Gotham Racing 2) although maybe it's more realistic? And it seems like it's
> too short. Almost like certain sections of the track have been compressed or
> something..
>
> I'm also not happy about the inability to transfer cars and more licenses
> from GT3, you can only transfer your A and B license, and only 100,000
> credits from game to game.
>
> Oh well.... Have to wait for Forza and Enthusia to come out for the next BIG
> THING in console racing I guess..
>
> Jay J


I think it was better to set limitations on the amount of stuff you
could bring over from GT3 actually. If not then folks likely would have
brought over FAR too much, be it cars or money...and then likely
complained that the game was too easy and they blew right through it due
to being able to buy much more car than they should have had early on
etc.. If anything was to be more maybe the license stuff as those can
be a pain sometimes...though they do do the job of making you better in
the long run. I think they balanced it pretty well, enough for those
that really want to move forward faster (pros/experts) and enough to
help out the lesser players (amatuers/rookies.) Tough to balance
something like that out really.


>
>
> <padams27@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:6j222111o73ecp67n4leb5qjjqn4jidjnh@4ax.com...
>
>>>Again, a disappointment in that instead of addressing what GT fans
>>>have been crying for, they just incrementally improved the areas
>>>which were already excellent. And added silly stuff like the
>>>photo mode.
>>
>>
>>My sentiments exactly.
>>
>>Great game with some great changes/additions.
>>
>>However, they have yet to address complaints/issues that have plagued
>>the series since it started.
>>
>>
>>That said, for what it is, it is certainly the best of the lot.
>
>
>
 
G

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On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:46:08 -0500, "Zackman"
<zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote:

>Dave wrote:
>
>> We'll see if Forza can deliver at this level or, hope upon hope,
>> higher.
>
>While GT4 might be a little bit of a disappointment to fans (haven't played
>it yet, but I plan to) I don't think Forza is going to compete against it
>except (maybe) graphically and of course the fact that it's online. Despite
>Skye's Sony ass-reaming masturbatory fantasies, no sensible person thinks
>Forza is going to outclass the GT series.
>
>-Z-
>

Saleswise...

Definately not.

Could it be a better playing game, with a better total package than
GT4.

Certainly, it COULD.

I have enjoyed many other racing titles, when it comes to the actual
racing, more than the GT series. However none of them outclassed the
GT series overall (Sega GT 2002 was the closest). The Forza package
seems a worthy opponent technically, but it has a long lineage to
dethrone.

Oh well, soon racing fans that actually have played both games and
hopeless fanboy's of both systems will be innundating the newsgroups
with opinions ad nauseum.

Me, I look forward to adding Forza to my library, and just playing it.
 

Dave

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In article <YeWdnXG6dZMh177fRVn-sA@giganews.com>, "Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote:

>While GT4 might be a little bit of a disappointment to fans (haven't played
>it yet, but I plan to) I don't think Forza is going to compete against it
>except (maybe) graphically and of course the fact that it's online. Despite
>Skye's Sony ass-reaming masturbatory fantasies, no sensible person thinks
>Forza is going to outclass the GT series.

I'm not convinced. To be sure, every previous "GT killer"
was pretty much cr*p (I'm thinking Sega GT and its ilk). And yes,
the GT crew has a long history and reign on top. But PGR2, which
uses some of the Forza crew, is terrifically fun. And most
auspiciously, the Forza demo (locking brakes aside) was pretty
damned good.