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Compact Flash Data Corruption Problems

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June 4, 2005 10:05:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I have a Canon Powershot A95, and a Kingston Elite Pro 1 gig Compact
Flash card. I used them both for a couple weeks with no problems, and
then when I bought a card reader things started getting weird. I'd
shoot some images and I could see them on the LCD in playback mode, but
when I would stick them into my card reader, some of the most recently
shot images would not be there. I'd put them BACK in the camera, and
they were not viewable on the camera either. This is the most recent
incident:

1) I shot one image, and copied it to my computer using my card reader.
2) I took the card reader out of the computer, and put it back in the
camera.
3) I shot 3 more images.
4) I put the card back in the computer, and the 3 most recently shot
photos were not there. The only one left was that first one.

I went into the format menu of the camera, and it said something like
7.5 megabytes were used, which is far too much for one image, so I found
some data recovery software and was able to recover those 3 images.
Does anyone know if there's something different I should be doing to
avoid this, or do you think it's some sort of a hardware problem? I've
heard from some places that you should format the card every time you
put it back in the camera. I just want to know what I should be doing
so that when I'm taking photos I actually care about, I don't lose
anything. Thanks.
June 4, 2005 10:16:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Something I forgot to add, was that after shooting those 3 images, they
were definitely viewable in the camera. I went back and forth between
them and zoomed in and out and stuff. It was only once I put them in
the CF reader that I ran into problems.
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 10:16:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Do you Really need that card reader? Why not just use the cable between the
camera and the PC's USB port. See if the problem disappears when you
eliminate the reader.

I have the A85 and it works fine either way.


"Jake" <EKAJL86007@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Bdmoe.13845$_o.6088@attbi_s71...
> Something I forgot to add, was that after shooting those 3 images, they
> were definitely viewable in the camera. I went back and forth between
> them and zoomed in and out and stuff. It was only once I put them in
> the CF reader that I ran into problems.
>
Related resources
June 4, 2005 11:28:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I like the reader because it doesn't waste the camera batteries when
downloading images. The card reader is also much faster, and I hate
having to mess with Canon's special software. But like you said, it
definitely does work and I don't recall any corruption problems before I
started using the card reader, so who knows. Maybe I'll go back to that.

Rudy Benner wrote:

> Do you Really need that card reader? Why not just use the cable between the
> camera and the PC's USB port. See if the problem disappears when you
> eliminate the reader.
>
> I have the A85 and it works fine either way.
>
>
> "Jake" <EKAJL86007@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:Bdmoe.13845$_o.6088@attbi_s71...
>
>>Something I forgot to add, was that after shooting those 3 images, they
>>were definitely viewable in the camera. I went back and forth between
>>them and zoomed in and out and stuff. It was only once I put them in
>>the CF reader that I ran into problems.
>>
>
>
>
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 11:28:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

You don't have to use Canon's software. Its an option. Whether or not you
use the camera's batteries for energy or from the PC, you still pay for it.
Pulling out that CF card and plugging it back in seems more likely to cause
problems than plugging in that little USB connector. Simple is better.

I use rechargeable batteries of course. Much more cost effective. I have 4
sets of batteries. I keep them as sets. Two sets are for the underwater
strobe, 2 sets for the camera. Inon D-2000.

"Jake" <EKAJL86007@aol.com> wrote in message
news:yhnoe.13978$x96.9309@attbi_s72...
>I like the reader because it doesn't waste the camera batteries when
> downloading images. The card reader is also much faster, and I hate
> having to mess with Canon's special software. But like you said, it
> definitely does work and I don't recall any corruption problems before I
> started using the card reader, so who knows. Maybe I'll go back to that.
>
> Rudy Benner wrote:
>
>> Do you Really need that card reader? Why not just use the cable between
>> the
>> camera and the PC's USB port. See if the problem disappears when you
>> eliminate the reader.
>>
>> I have the A85 and it works fine either way.
>>
>>
>> "Jake" <EKAJL86007@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:Bdmoe.13845$_o.6088@attbi_s71...
>>
>>>Something I forgot to add, was that after shooting those 3 images, they
>>>were definitely viewable in the camera. I went back and forth between
>>>them and zoomed in and out and stuff. It was only once I put them in
>>>the CF reader that I ran into problems.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 11:28:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Rudy Benner wrote:
> You don't have to use Canon's software. Its an option. Whether or
> not
> you use the camera's batteries for energy or from the PC, you still
> pay for it. Pulling out that CF card and plugging it back in seems
> more likely to cause problems than plugging in that little USB
> connector. Simple is better.

<le snipr>

Yup, simple is better; however, my wiggle-based analysis of the
Card-plugging v. USB-plugging conundrum, made a couple years ago after
some months as a small-endian (camera to USB) resulted in my
conversion to card readering.

I figured the card was designed to be plugged and unplugged, while USB
was originally a plug-and-leave-it item. It seemed and seems to me the
tolerances in the CF card-socket arrangement were less likely to
result in mis-alignment and damage.

Later on I got a computer that has built-in slots for everything but
SD/MMC, so the CF plug-unplug is a natural, and has worked as expected
for a year and a half.

Stick the CF card in the slot, the filing program starts up; I name a
new directory, hover over one file on the card, ctrl-a to select all,
drag-and-drop the files in the new directory; drag-and-drop the new
directory to the storage/backup external firewire drive, "Eject" the
card, done.

--
Frank S

"Verbing wierds language."
—Calvin
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 12:40:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Rudy Benner" <newsgroups@rudybenner.com> wrote in message
news:11a41thmjt08sbd@corp.supernews.com...
> You don't have to use Canon's software. Its an option. Whether or not you
> use the camera's batteries for energy or from the PC, you still pay for
it.
> Pulling out that CF card and plugging it back in seems more likely to
cause
> problems than plugging in that little USB connector. Simple is better.
>
> I use rechargeable batteries of course. Much more cost effective. I have 4
> sets of batteries. I keep them as sets. Two sets are for the underwater
> strobe, 2 sets for the camera. Inon D-2000.
>
> "Jake" <EKAJL86007@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:yhnoe.13978$x96.9309@attbi_s72...
> >I like the reader because it doesn't waste the camera batteries when
> > downloading images. The card reader is also much faster, and I hate
> > having to mess with Canon's special software. But like you said, it
> > definitely does work and I don't recall any corruption problems before I
> > started using the card reader, so who knows. Maybe I'll go back to
that.
> >
> > Rudy Benner wrote:
> >
> >> Do you Really need that card reader? Why not just use the cable between
> >> the
> >> camera and the PC's USB port. See if the problem disappears when you
> >> eliminate the reader.
> >>
> >> I have the A85 and it works fine either way.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Jake" <EKAJL86007@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:Bdmoe.13845$_o.6088@attbi_s71...
> >>
> >>>Something I forgot to add, was that after shooting those 3 images, they
> >>>were definitely viewable in the camera. I went back and forth between
> >>>them and zoomed in and out and stuff. It was only once I put them in
> >>>the CF reader that I ran into problems.

Maybe he would prefer to use a card reader cause its 10000x faster,
obviously something isn't working right and the solution of "oh just use
your camera as a card reader," is pretty lame.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 12:41:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Jake" <EKAJL86007@aol.com> wrote in message
news:U3moe.13783$_o.13330@attbi_s71...
> I have a Canon Powershot A95, and a Kingston Elite Pro 1 gig Compact
> Flash card. I used them both for a couple weeks with no problems, and
> then when I bought a card reader things started getting weird. I'd
> shoot some images and I could see them on the LCD in playback mode, but
> when I would stick them into my card reader, some of the most recently
> shot images would not be there. I'd put them BACK in the camera, and
> they were not viewable on the camera either. This is the most recent
> incident:
>
> 1) I shot one image, and copied it to my computer using my card reader.
> 2) I took the card reader out of the computer, and put it back in the
> camera.
> 3) I shot 3 more images.
> 4) I put the card back in the computer, and the 3 most recently shot
> photos were not there. The only one left was that first one.
>
> I went into the format menu of the camera, and it said something like
> 7.5 megabytes were used, which is far too much for one image, so I found
> some data recovery software and was able to recover those 3 images.
> Does anyone know if there's something different I should be doing to
> avoid this, or do you think it's some sort of a hardware problem? I've
> heard from some places that you should format the card every time you
> put it back in the camera. I just want to know what I should be doing
> so that when I'm taking photos I actually care about, I don't lose
> anything. Thanks.

Sounds like it could be a card reader problem. Did you remember to install
the software BEFORE you attached the card reader? Maybe the reader is a
lemon?
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 10:12:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Jake wrote:

> I like the reader because it doesn't waste the camera batteries when
> downloading images. The card reader is also much faster, and I hate
> having to mess with Canon's special software. But like you said, it
> definitely does work and I don't recall any corruption problems
> before I
> started using the card reader, so who knows. Maybe I'll go back to
> that.
You don't have to use Canons software. I transfer straight to my comp.
using GTkam2 and there is no messing about as I only have to select
the destination. I use Mandrive LE2005 but many other distros also
have it.

--
neil
delete delete to reply
June 5, 2005 10:53:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Perhaps it IS a lemon. I got it for CHEAP off of www.chiefvalue.com.
It was one of their daily specials and was only $8.99. So it seems like
you all think that this is probably a problem with the reader itself?
It didn't actually come with any software of its own, it just uses the
Windows 2000 Mass Storage device drivers. I'd use that gtkam2 thing,
but I don't use Linux, so I can see how that would present a problem.
Also, the card reader is SO much faster than from the camera itself. I
just wish I knew what it was that was going wrong before I take some
pictures I really need. I mean, I don't even know if it's the card
reader. It could be the camera, or the card itself. Thanks for all of
the replies. If anyone has any other ideas, please let me know. Thanks.

Dirty Harry wrote:

> "Jake" <EKAJL86007@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:U3moe.13783$_o.13330@attbi_s71...
>
>>I have a Canon Powershot A95, and a Kingston Elite Pro 1 gig Compact
>>Flash card. I used them both for a couple weeks with no problems, and
>>then when I bought a card reader things started getting weird. I'd
>>shoot some images and I could see them on the LCD in playback mode, but
>>when I would stick them into my card reader, some of the most recently
>>shot images would not be there. I'd put them BACK in the camera, and
>>they were not viewable on the camera either. This is the most recent
>>incident:
>>
>>1) I shot one image, and copied it to my computer using my card reader.
>>2) I took the card reader out of the computer, and put it back in the
>>camera.
>>3) I shot 3 more images.
>>4) I put the card back in the computer, and the 3 most recently shot
>>photos were not there. The only one left was that first one.
>>
>>I went into the format menu of the camera, and it said something like
>>7.5 megabytes were used, which is far too much for one image, so I found
>>some data recovery software and was able to recover those 3 images.
>>Does anyone know if there's something different I should be doing to
>>avoid this, or do you think it's some sort of a hardware problem? I've
>>heard from some places that you should format the card every time you
>>put it back in the camera. I just want to know what I should be doing
>>so that when I'm taking photos I actually care about, I don't lose
>>anything. Thanks.
>
>
> Sounds like it could be a card reader problem. Did you remember to install
> the software BEFORE you attached the card reader? Maybe the reader is a
> lemon?
>
>
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 11:59:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 18:05:40 GMT, Jake <EKAJL86007@aol.com> wrote:

>I have a Canon Powershot A95, and a Kingston Elite Pro 1 gig Compact
>Flash card. I used them both for a couple weeks with no problems, and
>then when I bought a card reader things started getting weird. I'd
>shoot some images and I could see them on the LCD in playback mode, but
>when I would stick them into my card reader, some of the most recently
>shot images would not be there. I'd put them BACK in the camera, and
>they were not viewable on the camera either. This is the most recent
>incident:
....

I bet a quarter the card reader is bad.

--
Big Bill
Replace "g" with "a"
June 5, 2005 3:54:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Jake" <EKAJL86007@aol.com> wrote in message
news:qjxoe.17185$_o.2743@attbi_s71...
> Perhaps it IS a lemon. I got it for CHEAP off of www.chiefvalue.com.
> It was one of their daily specials and was only $8.99. So it seems like
> you all think that this is probably a problem with the reader itself?
> It didn't actually come with any software of its own, it just uses the
> Windows 2000 Mass Storage device drivers. I'd use that gtkam2 thing,
> but I don't use Linux, so I can see how that would present a problem.
> Also, the card reader is SO much faster than from the camera itself. I
> just wish I knew what it was that was going wrong before I take some
> pictures I really need. I mean, I don't even know if it's the card
> reader. It could be the camera, or the card itself. Thanks for all of
> the replies. If anyone has any other ideas, please let me know. Thanks.
>
> Dirty Harry wrote:
>
>> "Jake" <EKAJL86007@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:U3moe.13783$_o.13330@attbi_s71...
>>
>>>I have a Canon Powershot A95, and a Kingston Elite Pro 1 gig Compact
>>>Flash card. I used them both for a couple weeks with no problems, and
>>>then when I bought a card reader things started getting weird. I'd
>>>shoot some images and I could see them on the LCD in playback mode, but
>>>when I would stick them into my card reader, some of the most recently
>>>shot images would not be there. I'd put them BACK in the camera, and
>>>they were not viewable on the camera either. This is the most recent
>>>incident:
>>>
>>>1) I shot one image, and copied it to my computer using my card reader.
>>>2) I took the card reader out of the computer, and put it back in the
>>>camera.
>>>3) I shot 3 more images.
>>>4) I put the card back in the computer, and the 3 most recently shot
>>>photos were not there. The only one left was that first one.
>>>
>>>I went into the format menu of the camera, and it said something like
>>>7.5 megabytes were used, which is far too much for one image, so I found
>>>some data recovery software and was able to recover those 3 images.
>>>Does anyone know if there's something different I should be doing to
>>>avoid this, or do you think it's some sort of a hardware problem? I've
>>>heard from some places that you should format the card every time you
>>>put it back in the camera. I just want to know what I should be doing
>>>so that when I'm taking photos I actually care about, I don't lose
>>>anything. Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Sounds like it could be a card reader problem. Did you remember to
>> install
>> the software BEFORE you attached the card reader? Maybe the reader is a
>> lemon?
>>
>>
>

Maybe I missed your reply -- what happens when you hook up the camera
directly to the usb port of the computer, as someone previously suggested
you try. When you connect like that, do all the photos show up each time?

Also, do you know anyone else with another card reader you can try?

Renee
June 5, 2005 8:14:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

The missing files doesn't happen every single time I use the card reader
which is why I'm so confused. I can download images fine by hooking it
up directly to the camera, but it's much slower that way, and it drains
the batteries. I tend to agree it probably has something to do with the
reader because I shot well over a hundred images before I ever got a
card reader. The other thing is, some web sites had suggested that data
corruption could happen if you removed cards from devices that had not
been properly "stopped" with the little tray icon in Windows. Has
anybody heard about this? Maybe it is just the card reader. I hope
that's all it is, because if this is the case, I can just format the
card in the camera after I download images each time.

Renee wrote:

> Maybe I missed your reply -- what happens when you hook up the camera
> directly to the usb port of the computer, as someone previously suggested
> you try. When you connect like that, do all the photos show up each time?
>
> Also, do you know anyone else with another card reader you can try?
>
> Renee
>
>
Anonymous
June 12, 2005 11:49:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

kcinvader wrote:
[]
> Sandisk website said card should be formatted out of camera, I think
> it said 1 or 2 times a month if using regularly.

Do you have a reference for that?
There are two statements there I would disagree with!

David
Anonymous
June 12, 2005 3:43:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ron Hunter wrote:
[]
> Bad advice! Check the card in another camera, to determine if the
> card, or camera, is the cause. I am assuming you know better than to
> turn off the camera before all data has had time to write to the
> card... Formatting a flash card outside the camera leads to problems
> with special formatting, and file structure needs of some cameras,
> and is to be avoided if possible. There is also no need to do a
> format at all if all pictures are routinely deleted after downloading.
> My guess is that you have a bad card.

Whilst I agree that there is no need to reformat the card if the images
have been deleted, my own preference (and what I would recommend to
others) is not to delete individual images, or even images in bulk, but to
simply reformat the card before use.

[Background 1: formatting uses fewer writes to the card than deleting,
especially in bulk, so prolongs the life of the card.]

[Background 2: the way I work is to take a number of cards on a trip,
enough for the whole trip, and fill the cards more or less completely. I
don't always have a portable storage device with me. Therefore I would
format cards only after copying all images to my computer and getting two
verified backups onto CD/DVD.]

Cheers,
David
Anonymous
June 12, 2005 7:56:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

David J Taylor wrote:
> Ron Hunter wrote:
> []
>
>>Bad advice! Check the card in another camera, to determine if the
>>card, or camera, is the cause. I am assuming you know better than to
>>turn off the camera before all data has had time to write to the
>>card... Formatting a flash card outside the camera leads to problems
>>with special formatting, and file structure needs of some cameras,
>>and is to be avoided if possible. There is also no need to do a
>>format at all if all pictures are routinely deleted after downloading.
>>My guess is that you have a bad card.
>
>
> Whilst I agree that there is no need to reformat the card if the images
> have been deleted, my own preference (and what I would recommend to
> others) is not to delete individual images, or even images in bulk, but to
> simply reformat the card before use.
>
> [Background 1: formatting uses fewer writes to the card than deleting,
> especially in bulk, so prolongs the life of the card.]
>
> [Background 2: the way I work is to take a number of cards on a trip,
> enough for the whole trip, and fill the cards more or less completely. I
> don't always have a portable storage device with me. Therefore I would
> format cards only after copying all images to my computer and getting two
> verified backups onto CD/DVD.]
>
> Cheers,
> David
>
>

Different people, different usage patterns.
I use my camera for miscellaneous purposes, which usually means I take a
few pictures every day, and sometimes take a lot of pictures over one,
or several days (such as vacations). Right now the card in my camera
has about 60 pictures on it, including pictures of the hibiscus plants
on my porch, my cat, the neighbor's daughter, the neighbor's
fence-building project, my recent trip to Shreveport, and more hibiscus
pictures. All but 4 have been moved to the computer. When I move all
those pictures into Photoshop Elements 3.0, and have backed them up to
the other THREE hard drives on my other computers, then I will delete
the files from the card.

Vacations, such as my Alaskan cruise last year, fill several cards, and
I leave the pictures on the cards until the multiple backup process is
completed, just in case. Then I will reformat the full cards.

I have little expectation of 'wearing out' a card.


--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net
Anonymous
June 12, 2005 8:24:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 06:53:10 GMT, Jake wrote:

> It could be the camera, or the card itself. Thanks for all of
> the replies. If anyone has any other ideas, please let me know. Thanks.

Or it could be neither. Did you ever format the card prior to
using it? If not, the card's true format (or lack of) may be
confusing the computer slightly, but enough to cause problems. If
you haven't done so yet, I'd try formatting the card in the camera
(do NOT do it in the card reader using the computer) and then see if
the problems disappear. If they don't, it makes it more likely that
there's some problem with the card reader. Then you have so more
things you could try, such as seeing if the card can be read by
someone else's computer with a known good card reader, or by
borrowing a good card reader and seeing if it works reliably on your
computer.
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 1:18:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Ron Hunter wrote:
[]
> Different people, different usage patterns.
> I use my camera for miscellaneous purposes, which usually means I
> take a few pictures every day, and sometimes take a lot of pictures
> over one, or several days (such as vacations). Right now the card in
> my camera has about 60 pictures on it, including pictures of the
> hibiscus plants on my porch, my cat, the neighbor's daughter, the
> neighbor's fence-building project, my recent trip to Shreveport, and
> more hibiscus pictures. All but 4 have been moved to the computer. When
> I move all those pictures into Photoshop Elements 3.0, and have
> backed them up to the other THREE hard drives on my other computers,
> then I will delete the files from the card.
>
> Vacations, such as my Alaskan cruise last year, fill several cards,
> and I leave the pictures on the cards until the multiple backup
> process is completed, just in case. Then I will reformat the full
> cards.
> I have little expectation of 'wearing out' a card.

Yes, wearing out a card is most unlikely! Interesting to hear how you
work - I do much the same in taking pictures, but I leave the odds and
ends to accumulate over time until the next major trip.

Cheers,
David
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 4:13:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Sorry David and Ron,
That info on formatting 1 or 2 times a month was not from Sandisk
website it was from another source . It was late at night and websites
were starting to blur together!The card is being returned tomorrow.
But, should i get the same card, Sandisk 256MB compactflash or am I
better off with something with a higher write speed or different brand.
The size is lots for us. The camera is a Canon Powershot S1 IS 3.2
Megapixel. We are very amateur, but don't like to have to deal with
reliability problems with the card.
Thanks
Kevin


--
kcinvader
Anonymous
June 14, 2005 12:17:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

kcinvader wrote:
> Sorry David and Ron,
> That info on formatting 1 or 2 times a month was not from Sandisk
> website it was from another source . It was late at night and websites
> were starting to blur together!The card is being returned tomorrow.
> But, should i get the same card, Sandisk 256MB compactflash or am I
> better off with something with a higher write speed or different
> brand. The size is lots for us. The camera is a Canon Powershot S1 IS
> 3.2 Megapixel. We are very amateur, but don't like to have to deal
> with reliability problems with the card.
> Thanks
> Kevin

OK on the mistaken Web site, Kevin.

I recommend the SanDisk Ultra II - it does have the higher speed which may
help when reading the card in your card-reader, or may help in your next
camera. I would not expect to pay more than 15% extra for the higher
speed.

Cheers,
David
!