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Anybody watch 60 Minutes tonight?

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Anonymous
March 7, 2005 1:26:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

They did a story on the kid who killed three police officers in 'bama and
how he was "trained" by the "murder simulator" that is Grand Theft Auto, and
thus a lawsuit has been filed by lawyer Jack Thompson on behalf of the
victims, naming Take 2, Sony, Walmart and Gamestop as defendants.

The report overall was pretty balanced, but any airtime given to that
crusading asshat Thompson makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. I
would like to read the statement from Wal-Mart that they flashed briefly on
the screen, since it looked like it called out Thompson's movites in
particular.

Some fun Jack Thompson background:

http://www.reason.com/links/links091003.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney)

The Wikipedia entry is expecially interesting. Thompson loves to say that
the heads of six major health care organizations testified before Congress
that violent video games lead to violence, when in fact the report he's
refering to concludes, "We in no way mean to imply that entertainment
violence is the sole, or even necessarily the most important factor
contributing to youth aggression, anti-social attitudes, and violence.
Family breakdown, peer influences, the availability of weapons, and numerous
other factors may all contribute to these problems. Nor are we advocating
restrictions on creative activity."

It's called freedom of creative expression, asshat. Crack down on retailers
who sell M-rated games to kids and leave us well-adjusted game-playing
adults alone.

-Z-

More about : watch minutes tonight

Anonymous
March 7, 2005 2:37:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

it was on the news here in New Orleans. I didn't get to watch it. I tell
you one thing tho, I found a lil hole in the lettuce of my salad from
Mcdonalds and I am gonna sue the pants off of them tomorrow.

Zackman wrote:
> They did a story on the kid who killed three police officers in 'bama and
> how he was "trained" by the "murder simulator" that is Grand Theft Auto, and
> thus a lawsuit has been filed by lawyer Jack Thompson on behalf of the
> victims, naming Take 2, Sony, Walmart and Gamestop as defendants.
>
> The report overall was pretty balanced, but any airtime given to that
> crusading asshat Thompson makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. I
> would like to read the statement from Wal-Mart that they flashed briefly on
> the screen, since it looked like it called out Thompson's movites in
> particular.
>
> Some fun Jack Thompson background:
>
> http://www.reason.com/links/links091003.shtml
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney)
>
> The Wikipedia entry is expecially interesting. Thompson loves to say that
> the heads of six major health care organizations testified before Congress
> that violent video games lead to violence, when in fact the report he's
> refering to concludes, "We in no way mean to imply that entertainment
> violence is the sole, or even necessarily the most important factor
> contributing to youth aggression, anti-social attitudes, and violence.
> Family breakdown, peer influences, the availability of weapons, and numerous
> other factors may all contribute to these problems. Nor are we advocating
> restrictions on creative activity."
>
> It's called freedom of creative expression, asshat. Crack down on retailers
> who sell M-rated games to kids and leave us well-adjusted game-playing
> adults alone.
>
> -Z-
>
>
March 7, 2005 9:38:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

If it were my rules, I would ban firearms altogether so violent sickos can
live out their killing spree fantasies through video games. And for the
people that make their own guns and then use them to kill someone... well
they will be given a slow and tortuous death. My country would rule!!111!!!

"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote in message
news:zcadncTxvOZzeLbfRVn-3Q@giganews.com...
> They did a story on the kid who killed three police officers in 'bama and
> how he was "trained" by the "murder simulator" that is Grand Theft Auto,
> and thus a lawsuit has been filed by lawyer Jack Thompson on behalf of the
> victims, naming Take 2, Sony, Walmart and Gamestop as defendants.
>
> The report overall was pretty balanced, but any airtime given to that
> crusading asshat Thompson makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. I
> would like to read the statement from Wal-Mart that they flashed briefly
> on the screen, since it looked like it called out Thompson's movites in
> particular.
>
> Some fun Jack Thompson background:
>
> http://www.reason.com/links/links091003.shtml
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Thompson_(attorney)
>
> The Wikipedia entry is expecially interesting. Thompson loves to say that
> the heads of six major health care organizations testified before Congress
> that violent video games lead to violence, when in fact the report he's
> refering to concludes, "We in no way mean to imply that entertainment
> violence is the sole, or even necessarily the most important factor
> contributing to youth aggression, anti-social attitudes, and violence.
> Family breakdown, peer influences, the availability of weapons, and
> numerous other factors may all contribute to these problems. Nor are we
> advocating restrictions on creative activity."
>
> It's called freedom of creative expression, asshat. Crack down on
> retailers who sell M-rated games to kids and leave us well-adjusted
> game-playing adults alone.
>
> -Z-
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 9:39:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote in message
news:zcadncTxvOZzeLbfRVn-3Q@giganews.com...
>
> It's called freedom of creative expression, asshat. Crack down on
> retailers who sell M-rated games to kids and leave us well-adjusted
> game-playing adults alone.
>


Amen to that. To add to that, I was happy to see Senator Tom Daschle's
defeat in the U.S. elections last year because of his unreasonably biased
agenda against the video game industry.
March 7, 2005 11:05:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"N. O. Saints and Atlanta Braves Fan" wrote

> it was on the news here in New Orleans. I didn't get to watch it. I tell
> you one thing tho, I found a lil hole in the lettuce of my salad from
> Mcdonalds and I am gonna sue the pants off of them tomorrow.

Yuk.

You know how they made the hole don't you?
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 12:32:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:nFSWd.3463$cN6.1997@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> If it were my rules, I would ban firearms altogether so violent sickos can
> live out their killing spree fantasies through video games. And for the
> people that make their own guns and then use them to kill someone... well
> they will be given a slow and tortuous death. My country would
rule!!111!!!

If anything to get you out of my country, go for it.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 12:39:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

I have to take issue with the fellow who remarked how you don't have to
kill cops in GTA - the mission that the illustrated can only be
accomplished by shooting up the police station. I agree that they made
the game look like Cop Killer instead of GTA, but there are quite a few
spots where you have to shoot at the cops to get through the level. The
"free the imprisoned guy in the police station" is one of the more
memorable ones.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 5:59:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Gil wrote:
> I have to take issue with the fellow who remarked how you don't have to
> kill cops in GTA - the mission that the illustrated can only be
> accomplished by shooting up the police station. I agree that they made
> the game look like Cop Killer instead of GTA, but there are quite a few
> spots where you have to shoot at the cops to get through the level. The
> "free the imprisoned guy in the police station" is one of the more
> memorable ones.
>

Yes there are those few levels that require it, or it is pretty much
necessary. I think the way I stated it was something to the effect of
you could get through most of it/the bulk of it/or largest percentage of
it without having to actually kill the cops. There are instances but
they are not the focus of the entire game and something one has to do
constantly. You can avoid the law when they are after you and use the
paint shops, bribe stars, change of clothes, and the such to avoid
having to confront/kill them.

One other thing I forgot to mention in my other post. They really did
not go into the fact that the law comes after you for doing bad/wrong
things in the game. No real mention of that, and that like in real life
there are going to be consequences for bad behavior/actions.
March 7, 2005 7:29:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

You are an evil gun owner. You like to kill things for fun.


"Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in message
news:112ot00a9n8dj5b@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:nFSWd.3463$cN6.1997@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> If it were my rules, I would ban firearms altogether so violent sickos
>> can
>> live out their killing spree fantasies through video games. And for the
>> people that make their own guns and then use them to kill someone... well
>> they will be given a slow and tortuous death. My country would
> rule!!111!!!
>
> If anything to get you out of my country, go for it.
>
>
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 8:14:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Zackman wrote:

<snip>

"Video games don't cause violence and I'll kill anyone who says otherwise."
--The Gord. www.actsofgord.com
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 8:25:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Pat wrote:
>
> Good, I think Scotland has the right idea. The only people that need them
> should be police and military.
>
tough call as then you're in danger of a police state.

--
Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 8:25:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Pat wrote:
>
> You are an evil gun owner. You like to kill things for fun.

Not only that, but it's HIS country.

--
Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
March 7, 2005 8:28:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

And not only are you a gun weilding hunter killer of animals for fun, you're
probably also a Christian which is ironic considering that Jesus was a
peaceful man who would never have carried a gun. "turn the other cheek" was
part of his philosophy... son of god (is there a god?) or a mortal man who
died a martyr. Who knows. Still they are nice values to live by. At any
rate, YOU ARE EVIL!!!1!!


"Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in message
news:112ot00a9n8dj5b@news.supernews.com...
>
>
> If anything to get you out of my country, go for it.
>
>
March 7, 2005 8:34:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Oh and you're probably also into NASCAR lol!
I'm a profiler. I know these things.

> If anything to get you out of my country, go for it.
>
>
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 8:54:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote

> The Wikipedia entry is expecially interesting. Thompson loves to say that
> the heads of six major health care organizations testified before Congress
> that violent video games lead to violence, when in fact the report he's
> refering to concludes, "We in no way mean to imply that entertainment
> violence is the sole, or even necessarily the most important factor
> contributing to youth aggression, anti-social attitudes, and violence.
> Family breakdown, peer influences, the availability of weapons, and
> numerous other factors may all contribute to these problems. Nor are we
> advocating restrictions on creative activity."

Violent video games don't "lead" to violence, but the statement says they
help lead someone to violence. That's what they said.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 9:00:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:nFSWd.3463$cN6.1997@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> If it were my rules, I would ban firearms altogether so violent sickos can
> live out their killing spree fantasies through video games. And for the
> people that make their own guns and then use them to kill someone... well
> they will be given a slow and tortuous death. My country would
> rule!!111!!!
>

You guys are as ignorant about guns as some people are about video games.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 9:01:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:si_Wd.3594$cN6.757@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Good, I think Scotland has the right idea. The only people that need them
> should be police and military.
>

Yeah, the thousands of people who saved their own lives this year here in
the U.S. with firearms didn't "need" them.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 9:02:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:422C8E77.51F8FE4E@blueyonder.co.uk...
> Pat wrote:
>>
>> Good, I think Scotland has the right idea. The only people that need them
>> should be police and military.
>>
> tough call as then you're in danger of a police state.

Yeah, and you're in danger of any felons who decide not to obey the law.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 9:58:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Fred Liken wrote:

> Violent video games don't "lead" to violence, but the statement says
> they help lead someone to violence. That's what they said.

The report says violent entertainment (they don't single out video games
over movie or TV) can be a contributing cause, though it is recognized as
less of a contributor than several other factors.

But that's not what Jack Thompson, who frequently cites this report, says.
To hear him put it, video games are murder simulators (a term he stole from
David Grossman, who looks downright sane compared to Thompson) that train
impressionable young teenaged minds to kill, and the industry should not be
allowed to make them. Not that they shouldn't be sold to minors, that they
should not be allowed to EXIST, period.

-Z-
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 11:15:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Gil wrote:
>
> I have to take issue with the fellow who remarked how you don't have to
> kill cops in GTA - the mission that the illustrated can only be
> accomplished by shooting up the police station. I agree that they made
> the game look like Cop Killer instead of GTA, but there are quite a few
> spots where you have to shoot at the cops to get through the level. The
> "free the imprisoned guy in the police station" is one of the more
> memorable ones.

Gil, I assume the mission is in Vice City?

In SA the bad guy is a cop, but he is a very bad man, not an
honourable man with whom you would trust your ill grandmother. I don't
see why we distinguish shooting cops from shooting normal people,
except it fits nicely with this guy's case. the sad fact is some cops
slipped up and an unstable person took an opportunity, a bad and evil
decision which had nothing to do with video games and everything to do
with him and the cops responsible for his arrest.

--
Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 11:17:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

massivegrooves wrote:
>
> Gil wrote:
> > I have to take issue with the fellow who remarked how you don't have to
> > kill cops in GTA - the mission that the illustrated can only be
> > accomplished by shooting up the police station. I agree that they made
> > the game look like Cop Killer instead of GTA, but there are quite a few
> > spots where you have to shoot at the cops to get through the level. The
> > "free the imprisoned guy in the police station" is one of the more
> > memorable ones.
> >
>
> Yes there are those few levels that require it, or it is pretty much
> necessary. I think the way I stated it was something to the effect of
> you could get through most of it/the bulk of it/or largest percentage of
> it without having to actually kill the cops. There are instances but
> they are not the focus of the entire game and something one has to do
> constantly. You can avoid the law when they are after you and use the
> paint shops, bribe stars, change of clothes, and the such to avoid
> having to confront/kill them.
>
> One other thing I forgot to mention in my other post. They really did
> not go into the fact that the law comes after you for doing bad/wrong
> things in the game. No real mention of that, and that like in real life
> there are going to be consequences for bad behavior/actions.

yup. There are quite moral things in these later GTA games but i think
we'd be blind to say they are a good lesson for anyone. The sad few
people who do get affected by things they see or read or whatever will
always find some trigger. I still think that the only trigger in this
case was an underestimation of a prisoner's condition and need to
escape.

Gun culture is a bad thing, let's make no bones about that, but GTA SA
is a fantastic release from the frustrations of modern life
--
Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 11:17:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:422CB6F0.85F25245@blueyonder.co.uk...
> massivegrooves wrote:
>>

>
> Gun culture is a bad thing, let's make no bones about that,



Oh, I'll make bones about that all right. In fact, I contend that gun
culture is a *good* thing.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 1:17:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

This doesn't surprise me at all. I'm certain there have been other
crimes committed by Black youth influenced by this game. (as if they
need any encouragement to commit violence.. highest crime rate in the
country) Note, too, who this particular Black thug killed.

Anyone hear about this case on their local news channel? I certainly
didn't. That's the modus operandi of the American media. Who's ever
heard of this case? http://www.wichita-massacre.com/

Perusing some of the posts, I came across a particularly idiotic one:

>>>If it were my rules, I would ban firearms altogether so violent
sickos can
live out their killing spree fantasies through video games. And for the

people that make their own guns and then use them to kill someone...
well
they will be given a slow and tortuous death. My country would
rule!!111!!! <<<

If it were my rules, I would ban mentally retarded people from
reproducing.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 1:43:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Paul Heslop wrote:
> massivegrooves wrote:
>
>>Gil wrote:
>>
>>>I have to take issue with the fellow who remarked how you don't have to
>>>kill cops in GTA - the mission that the illustrated can only be
>>>accomplished by shooting up the police station. I agree that they made
>>>the game look like Cop Killer instead of GTA, but there are quite a few
>>>spots where you have to shoot at the cops to get through the level. The
>>>"free the imprisoned guy in the police station" is one of the more
>>>memorable ones.
>>>
>>
>>Yes there are those few levels that require it, or it is pretty much
>>necessary. I think the way I stated it was something to the effect of
>>you could get through most of it/the bulk of it/or largest percentage of
>>it without having to actually kill the cops. There are instances but
>>they are not the focus of the entire game and something one has to do
>>constantly. You can avoid the law when they are after you and use the
>>paint shops, bribe stars, change of clothes, and the such to avoid
>>having to confront/kill them.
>>
>>One other thing I forgot to mention in my other post. They really did
>>not go into the fact that the law comes after you for doing bad/wrong
>>things in the game. No real mention of that, and that like in real life
>>there are going to be consequences for bad behavior/actions.
>
>
> yup. There are quite moral things in these later GTA games but i think
> we'd be blind to say they are a good lesson for anyone.

Lol...definitely wouldn't want to use that to teach anyone morals or
ethics, but there is some sense of right and wrong within the game ;) 

>The sad few
> people who do get affected by things they see or read or whatever will
> always find some trigger. I still think that the only trigger in this
> case was an underestimation of a prisoner's condition and need to
> escape.
>
> Gun culture is a bad thing, let's make no bones about that, but GTA SA
> is a fantastic release from the frustrations of modern life

Yep, it really boils down to the mindset of the person and how desperate
they may be. All the blame the game is for is to keep his ass off of
death row, because he is too big a pussy to face the punishment for
what he has done...
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 1:57:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

seems to me wrote:
> "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:422CB6F0.85F25245@blueyonder.co.uk...
>
>>massivegrooves wrote:
>>
>
>>Gun culture is a bad thing, let's make no bones about that,
>
>
>
>
> Oh, I'll make bones about that all right. In fact, I contend that gun
> culture is a *good* thing.
>


For the record...I didn't write that.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 5:05:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

seems to me wrote:
>
> "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:422C8E77.51F8FE4E@blueyonder.co.uk...
> > Pat wrote:
> >>
> >> Good, I think Scotland has the right idea. The only people that need them
> >> should be police and military.
> >>
> > tough call as then you're in danger of a police state.
>
> Yeah, and you're in danger of any felons who decide not to obey the law.

Like I said, tough call. In England the use of guns is restricted for
both sides. It does seem as time goes on the gang mentality is making
the streets a very dangerous place to be though
--
Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 5:06:39 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

seems to me wrote:
>
> "Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:si_Wd.3594$cN6.757@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > Good, I think Scotland has the right idea. The only people that need them
> > should be police and military.
> >
>
> Yeah, the thousands of people who saved their own lives this year here in
> the U.S. with firearms didn't "need" them.

and likewise, the thousands (and it will be a greater figure) who took
lives with guns didn't need them either, except to kill
--
Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 5:07:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

seems to me wrote:
>
> "Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:422CB6F0.85F25245@blueyonder.co.uk...
> > massivegrooves wrote:
> >>
>
> >
> > Gun culture is a bad thing, let's make no bones about that,
>
> Oh, I'll make bones about that all right. In fact, I contend that gun
> culture is a *good* thing.

and?

Gun 'culture' is good? and you live in the states?

--
Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 5:19:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

seems to me wrote:
>
> "Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:nFSWd.3463$cN6.1997@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > If it were my rules, I would ban firearms altogether so violent sickos can
> > live out their killing spree fantasies through video games. And for the
> > people that make their own guns and then use them to kill someone... well
> > they will be given a slow and tortuous death. My country would
> > rule!!111!!!
> >
>
> You guys are as ignorant about guns as some people are about video games.

yeah right. Of course nobody who knows how to use a gun kills do they?
I mean, we must know that the guy who goes down the gun club and
shoots at targets isn't going to go ape, don't we?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/crime/caseclosed/hungerford.shtml
---------------------
Dunblane -

Perpetuation of the Myth of Gun Club Complaints about Thomas Hamilton
One of the arguments used to dismiss the handgun ban is that the
Dunblane massacre would not have occurred had Central Scotland Police
responded to reservations about Thomas Hamilton by fellow gun club
members. The myth that shooters had shown sufficient concern about
Hamilton to warn the police was invented by the gun lobby in an
attempt to demonstrate that they are all law-abiding and able to
identify those who are unsuitable to own handguns. Two recent letters
in the Scottish press (Edinburgh Evening News, 5th July; Scotland on
Sunday 25 August 2002), both of which claim that firearms bans don’t
work, have repeated this myth.
There was absolutely no evidence at the Cullen Inquiry into the
Dunblane Shootings that any gun club member had complained to the
police. Indeed many of his fellow shooters were quite accepting of
his unorthodox shooting style.
-----------------------------
oh yeah, and let's just ignore Columbine, and whatever next tragedy
strikes


--
Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 5:32:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Paul Heslop wrote:
> seems to me wrote:
>
>>"Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
>>news:si_Wd.3594$cN6.757@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>Good, I think Scotland has the right idea. The only people that need them
>>>should be police and military.
>>>
>>
>>Yeah, the thousands of people who saved their own lives this year here in
>>the U.S. with firearms didn't "need" them.
>
>
> and likewise, the thousands (and it will be a greater figure) who took
> lives with guns didn't need them either, except to kill

And hence, you're screwed either way.

Might as well nuke the human species and be done with it.
March 8, 2005 5:47:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"seems to me" <asdlf@alkjfd.com> wrote in message
news:Rc2dncjd4I74mrDfRVn-1w@comcast.com...
>
> "Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:si_Wd.3594$cN6.757@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> Good, I think Scotland has the right idea. The only
>> people that need them should be police and military.
>>
>
> Yeah, the thousands of people who saved their own lives
> this year here in the U.S. with firearms didn't "need"
> them.
>

I'm not advocating the ban of firearms, but honestly; I bet
almost every one of us here knows a child whose life was
taken by a firearm accident (I knew 3 children who were
killed when I was in school) but probably less than 10% of
us actually know someone who has used a firearm to protect
themselves.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 6:00:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

> Mean_Chlorine wrote:
> Thusly "seems to me" <asdlf@alkjfd.com> Spake Unto All:
> >
> >Yeah, the thousands of people who saved their own lives this year
here in
> >the U.S. with firearms didn't "need" them.
>
> Of course they did. As your gun culture means your villains are armed
> with firearms.

Don't pretend to understand the situation here in America. You don't
have 50 million Africans to contend with. In some areas, it's like
Johannesburg, South Africa. Detroit and D.C. come to mind. Our lives
are in danger because of it.

In addition, most Brits have been thoroughly emasculated.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 6:33:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

GFree wrote:
>
> Paul Heslop wrote:
> > seems to me wrote:
> >
> >>"Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> >>news:si_Wd.3594$cN6.757@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >>
> >>>Good, I think Scotland has the right idea. The only people that need them
> >>>should be police and military.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Yeah, the thousands of people who saved their own lives this year here in
> >>the U.S. with firearms didn't "need" them.
> >
> >
> > and likewise, the thousands (and it will be a greater figure) who took
> > lives with guns didn't need them either, except to kill
>
> And hence, you're screwed either way.
>
> Might as well nuke the human species and be done with it.

probably
--
Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 6:35:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Robin wrote:
>
> "seems to me" <asdlf@alkjfd.com> wrote in message
> news:Rc2dncjd4I74mrDfRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> >
> > "Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
> > news:si_Wd.3594$cN6.757@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >> Good, I think Scotland has the right idea. The only
> >> people that need them should be police and military.
> >>
> >
> > Yeah, the thousands of people who saved their own lives
> > this year here in the U.S. with firearms didn't "need"
> > them.
> >
>
> I'm not advocating the ban of firearms, but honestly; I bet
> almost every one of us here knows a child whose life was
> taken by a firearm accident (I knew 3 children who were
> killed when I was in school) but probably less than 10% of
> us actually know someone who has used a firearm to protect
> themselves.

in my case I have only known of people who have died due to guns and
zero who have been saved, unless I count saved by armed police. I
don't actually know anyone who owns a gun, not even an air gun. I had
an air gun as a young person and I know just how powerful you start to
feel even when the gun is a feeble little thing which we used to fire
soft stuff out of... now they shoot each other and strangers in the
head area for 'fun'
--
Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
March 8, 2005 10:14:14 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake "NightSky 421" <nightsky421@yahoo.ca>, Mon, 7 Mar 2005 06:39:28
-0700, Anno Domini:

>"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote in message
>news:zcadncTxvOZzeLbfRVn-3Q@giganews.com...
>>
>> It's called freedom of creative expression, asshat. Crack down on
>> retailers who sell M-rated games to kids and leave us well-adjusted
>> game-playing adults alone.
>>
>
>
>Amen to that. To add to that, I was happy to see Senator Tom Daschle's
>defeat in the U.S. elections last year because of his unreasonably biased
>agenda against the video game industry.
>

The capital mistake yer all making here boyz n girlz, is assuming that there
is such a thing a "well-adjusted game-playing adult" - or just an adult for
that matter - I'm yet to meet one. >8^D

--
Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 11:25:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

massivegrooves wrote:

> > yup. There are quite moral things in these later GTA games but i think
> > we'd be blind to say they are a good lesson for anyone.
>
> Lol...definitely wouldn't want to use that to teach anyone morals or
> ethics, but there is some sense of right and wrong within the game ;) 
>
CJ seems so naive at the start

> >The sad few
> > people who do get affected by things they see or read or whatever will
> > always find some trigger. I still think that the only trigger in this
> > case was an underestimation of a prisoner's condition and need to
> > escape.
> >
> > Gun culture is a bad thing, let's make no bones about that, but GTA SA
> > is a fantastic release from the frustrations of modern life
>
> Yep, it really boils down to the mindset of the person and how desperate
> they may be. All the blame the game is for is to keep his ass off of
> death row, because he is too big a pussy to face the punishment for
> what he has done...

I bet he's not even as charming as CJ either!

--
Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 11:34:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Vince wrote:
> "N. O. Saints and Atlanta Braves Fan" wrote
>
>
>>it was on the news here in New Orleans. I didn't get to watch it. I tell
>>you one thing tho, I found a lil hole in the lettuce of my salad from
>>Mcdonalds and I am gonna sue the pants off of them tomorrow.
>
>
> Yuk.
>
> You know how they made the hole don't you?
>
>
If he's gonna sue them then obviously he has a pretty good idea.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 2:15:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "seems to me" <asdlf@alkjfd.com> Spake Unto All:

>> Good, I think Scotland has the right idea. The only people that need them
>> should be police and military.
>
>Yeah, the thousands of people who saved their own lives this year here in
>the U.S. with firearms didn't "need" them.

Of course they did. As your gun culture means your villains are armed
with firearms.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 2:15:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "Robin" <robinandtami@nospam.com> Spake Unto All:

>Didn't the Army come out with or endorse a video game
>specifically for recruiting a couple of years ago?

They did indeed, and the take-home message of it is "don't ever, under
any circumstance, get in a live firefight, because you WILL get
killed".
I'm not sure that was the message they intended to *convey*, but that
is nonetheless what the game teaches.
That, and that you're almost as likely to be shot by a squadmate as by
the enemy.
March 8, 2005 2:32:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 8 Mar 2005 03:00:13 -0800, "aether" <vercingetorix@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>In addition, most Brits have been thoroughly emasculated.

As we have 10% of your murder rate, sort your own penile dysfunctions
out before insulting us.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
March 8, 2005 3:21:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Fred Liken wrote:

> GTA isn't a murder simulator, in your opinion? Are you that far gone
that
> you can't even comprehend the simple fact that games like GTA are
indeed
> murder simulators. It's pretty much the point of the franchise.

http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?selected=1303&bo...||||

murder
n. the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice
aforethought (prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone
who gets in the way) and with no legal excuse or authority.

GTA fails to establish intent or malice aforethought, it's more
free-form than that.

But I guess "manslaughter simulator" doesn't sound sexy enough.

manslaughter
n. the unlawful killing of another person without premeditation or
so-called "malice aforethought" (an evil intent prior to the killing).
It is distinguished from murder (which brings greater penalties) by
lack of any prior intention to kill anyone or create a deadly
situation.

There are two levels of manslaughter: voluntary and involuntary.
Voluntary manslaughter includes killing in heat of passion or while
committing a felony. Involuntary manslaughter occurs when a death is
caused by a violation of a non-felony, such as reckless driving (called
"vehicular manslaughter").

- Jordan
March 8, 2005 3:51:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:422D08A2.6758CACB@blueyonder.co.uk...
> seems to me wrote:
>>
>> "Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:si_Wd.3594$cN6.757@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> > Good, I think Scotland has the right idea. The only people that need
>> > them
>> > should be police and military.
>> >
>>
>> Yeah, the thousands of people who saved their own lives this year here in
>> the U.S. with firearms didn't "need" them.
>
> and likewise, the thousands (and it will be a greater figure) who took
> lives with guns didn't need them either, except to kill
> --
> Paul (everybody hurts sometimes)
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Stop and Look
> http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Over 10,000 killed each year in USA. In Canada gun ownership is a similar
percentage, but deaths far far lower.

Is it a coincidence that US troops are also a little gung ho?
March 8, 2005 3:55:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Mean_Chlorine" <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uaqq21hh4t3oj3vao2ol1jh5645cgdt5ha@4ax.com...
> Thusly "Robin" <robinandtami@nospam.com> Spake Unto All:
>
>>Didn't the Army come out with or endorse a video game
>>specifically for recruiting a couple of years ago?
>
> They did indeed, and the take-home message of it is "don't ever, under
> any circumstance, get in a live firefight, because you WILL get
> killed".
> I'm not sure that was the message they intended to *convey*, but that
> is nonetheless what the game teaches.
> That, and that you're almost as likely to be shot by a squadmate as by
> the enemy.
>

Which, statistically cannot be far from the truth? Most killings by the
enemy are with bombs.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 4:02:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote in message
news:CKidnYKPJrxbm7DfRVn-iw@giganews.com...

> Fred Liken wrote:
>
>> Violent video games don't "lead" to violence, but the statement says
>> they help lead someone to violence. That's what they said.
>
> The report says violent entertainment (they don't single out video games
> over movie or TV) can be a contributing cause, though it is recognized as
> less of a contributor than several other factors.

No, that's not what it says, Mr Dishonesty. It simply says that they aren't
stating that it is the sole or even necessarily the most important factor.

"We in no way mean to imply that entertainment violence is the sole, or even
necessarily the most important factor contributing to youth aggression,
anti-social attitudes, and violence."

They even go on to say that other factors MAY be other factors that affect
the kids.

"Family breakdown, peer influences, the availability of weapons, and
numerous other factors may all contribute to these problems."

> But that's not what Jack Thompson, who frequently cites this report, says.
> To hear him put it, video games are murder simulators

GTA isn't a murder simulator, in your opinion? Are you that far gone that
you can't even comprehend the simple fact that games like GTA are indeed
murder simulators. It's pretty much the point of the franchise.

> (a term he stole from David Grossman, who looks downright sane compared to
> Thompson) that train impressionable young teenaged minds to kill,

You don't think that games can train people to kill? The Army invests quite
a bit in creating simulators to train people to kill. It's a fact.

> and the industry should not be allowed to make them. Not that they
> shouldn't be sold to minors, that they should not be allowed to EXIST,
> period.

That's where things diverge. You can be against this particular point
without ignorantly tossing out the facts that he tries to use to support his
argument.

I don't believe they should be sold to minors either, but banning them out
right is somewhat extreme for the American culture.
March 8, 2005 4:33:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 18:02:14 -0800, "seems to me" <asdlf@alkjfd.com>
wrote:

>
>"Paul Heslop" <paul.heslop@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:422C8E77.51F8FE4E@blueyonder.co.uk...
>> Pat wrote:
>>>
>>> Good, I think Scotland has the right idea. The only people that need them
>>> should be police and military.
>>>
>> tough call as then you're in danger of a police state.
>
>Yeah, and you're in danger of any felons who decide not to obey the law.

You are anyway's
>
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 4:59:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

> Doug Jacobs wrote:

> So....you're saying that video games make only Black people violent.

> Gotcha.

African-Americans have the highest crime rate in the country. They make
up the majority of prison inmates. A Black-oriented GTA, where you roam
the streets babbling like a gangsta rapper and murdering people, is the
last thing they need to see.



>
> Nothing like ignoring reality to espouse your own racist views.

Reality states that African-Americans are the most violent segement of
the American population. I'm pleased to burst your bubble.


>
> And I suppose, too, that we should blame the Blacks for Columbine.
After
> all, as we've seen with the violence on TV, movies, and on the news
we
> should be thankful that the Black Nation hasn't risen up and killed
our
> white-honky asses.
>
> Idiot...

As I said, African-Americans have the highest crime rate in the
country. They committ a majority of all murders, rapes, and theft.
(esp. GTA) If common sense and personal experience as to their violent
nature eludes you, check federal statistics. That'd be Uncle Sam.
That's where I get my information.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 5:07:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

In article <CKidnYKPJrxbm7DfRVn-iw@giganews.com>,
zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net says...
>
>Fred Liken wrote:
>
>> Violent video games don't "lead" to violence, but the statement says
>> they help lead someone to violence. That's what they said.
>
>The report says violent entertainment (they don't single out video games
>over movie or TV) can be a contributing cause, though it is recognized as
>less of a contributor than several other factors.
>
>But that's not what Jack Thompson, who frequently cites this report, says.
>To hear him put it, video games are murder simulators (a term he stole from
>David Grossman, who looks downright sane compared to Thompson) that train
>impressionable young teenaged minds to kill, and the industry should not be
>allowed to make them. Not that they shouldn't be sold to minors, that they
>should not be allowed to EXIST, period.
>
>-Z-
>
>
Fred is probably Freds right hand man or would it be boy?
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 5:32:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

"Robin" <robinandtami@nospam.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>
>"seems to me" <asdlf@alkjfd.com> wrote in message
>news:Rc2dncjd4I74mrDfRVn-1w@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Pat" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:si_Wd.3594$cN6.757@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>> Good, I think Scotland has the right idea. The only
>>> people that need them should be police and military.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, the thousands of people who saved their own lives
>> this year here in the U.S. with firearms didn't "need"
>> them.
>>
>
>I'm not advocating the ban of firearms, but honestly; I bet
>almost every one of us here knows a child whose life was
>taken by a firearm accident (I knew 3 children who were
>killed when I was in school) but probably less than 10% of
>us actually know someone who has used a firearm to protect
>themselves.

Actually no. I don't know anyone who has been harmed by a firearm
whether accidently or deliberately.

But then I'm Canadian and we don't have the "lots of guns lying around
the house" mentality Americans seem to have.

It's a bit hard for someone to be "accidently shot" by a properly stored
and secured firearm.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 5:34:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

Fred Liken wrote:
> "Zackman" <zackman@SPAMISEVILearthling.net> wrote in message
> news:CKidnYKPJrxbm7DfRVn-iw@giganews.com...
>
>
>>Fred Liken wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Violent video games don't "lead" to violence, but the statement says
>>>they help lead someone to violence. That's what they said.
>>
>>The report says violent entertainment (they don't single out video games
>>over movie or TV) can be a contributing cause, though it is recognized as
>>less of a contributor than several other factors.
>
>
> No, that's not what it says, Mr Dishonesty. It simply says that they aren't
> stating that it is the sole or even necessarily the most important factor.
>
> "We in no way mean to imply that entertainment violence is the sole, or even
> necessarily the most important factor contributing to youth aggression,
> anti-social attitudes, and violence."
>
> They even go on to say that other factors MAY be other factors that affect
> the kids.
>
> "Family breakdown, peer influences, the availability of weapons, and
> numerous other factors may all contribute to these problems."
>
>
>>But that's not what Jack Thompson, who frequently cites this report, says.
>>To hear him put it, video games are murder simulators
>
>
> GTA isn't a murder simulator, in your opinion? Are you that far gone that
> you can't even comprehend the simple fact that games like GTA are indeed
> murder simulators. It's pretty much the point of the franchise.

I would put the tag "murder simulator" on somehting like Manhunt before
I would any of the GTA games...


>
>>(a term he stole from David Grossman, who looks downright sane compared to
>>Thompson) that train impressionable young teenaged minds to kill,
>
>
> You don't think that games can train people to kill? The Army invests quite
> a bit in creating simulators to train people to kill. It's a fact.
>
>
>>and the industry should not be allowed to make them. Not that they
>>shouldn't be sold to minors, that they should not be allowed to EXIST,
>>period.
>
>
> That's where things diverge. You can be against this particular point
> without ignorantly tossing out the facts that he tries to use to support his
> argument.
>
> I don't believe they should be sold to minors either, but banning them out
> right is somewhat extreme for the American culture.
>
>
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 6:19:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.games.video.xbox,alt.games.video.sony-playstation2 (More info?)

> Robin wrote:
> "Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in message
> news:112s79risptvhad@news.supernews.com...
> >
> > How's the immigration explosion going?
> >
> >
>
> Ask the conservatives in power who choose to do absolutely
> nothing to curtail it, and instead propose amnesty for
> illegals. Why not? It keeps wages for all Americans
> artificially low. The conservatives currently in power are
> waging financial war on the middle class. Refusing to
> curtail illegal immigration is just one small weapon in
> their arsenal.

Neither party touches the issue. For one thing, most individuals in
both parties are financially well-off. Secondly, is the fact that
American politicians, and Western politicians in general, are a
superficial lot. Demographics is destiny, but who cares when you're a
rich, shallow politician? Essentially, they're mindless traitors.
!