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AGP OR PCI??

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January 6, 2012 1:54:28 PM

Currently I am reactivating a computer whose CPU went out. I had it replaced but just have drug my feet on getting it functional again. I noted in my bios settings that I have a choice of AGP ON Board or PCI for my video setting. I have an older model AMD video card right now, it is a Radeon x850. I plan to upgrade all of this, the card, windows from media ctr xp to windows 7 (maybe), etc. but for now, I cannot get the stupid drivers for the video card to install. When I tried, knowing that Radeon on this older model required complete removal of their software to update to newer drivers (I hate that) when I installed the last legacy vs of drivers for this video card I could only get to a black screen. I could not rectify it so I had to do a system recovery so that I could deal with this. My question is, should this setting in bios be for the AGP On Board or for PCI? It is set at PCI and I wonder if that is the problem. Thx.

More about : agp pci

a c 251 U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 2:02:00 PM

You should set the bios setting to match what you are trying to do , if the card is pci then the bios setting should be pci , if the card or on board is what you are trying to update then you should have the bios set to AGP.
a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 2:04:15 PM

+1 @inzone
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January 6, 2012 2:27:14 PM

Thanks but for me that is about as clear as mud. Sorry to say that I have not opened a case in over a year, I am not well, unfortunately a brain tumor and neurological disease that has taken some of the lingo, etc., away. So, this is the deal. The card is pci, I added it as an upgrade as what came was so awful. I plugged that card into the board. I have read several information sites that say one thing then the other, indicating that agp onboard will automatically do the right thing but I may not be reading about the same thing. My system and computer is older, but I really am partial to the media ctr edition and have not looked to see if windows 7 will be compatible with that, hence hesitation.

So, pci or agp? And, are there two settings for agp on newer models, is there one that is just agp and one that is agp on board?
January 6, 2012 2:56:22 PM

This site http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... Says your video card is AGP(so your card is AGP, not PCI)... which means you should have your BIOS set to AGP/onboard.

Your motherboard probably has an AGP slot and like 2 or 3 PCI slots(for sound cards an what not). The AGP slot is strictly for Video Cards, so that is what you need to set your BIOS to.

AGP is no longer used on newer Motherboards and graphics cards.
a c 251 U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 2:57:29 PM

You don't have to open you computer case to do anything , you can do everything you need to do in the bios. The onboad AGP is a terrible video option and you will always get better results with a seperate card in a slot. If you are trying to update the drivers for the AGP on board video then set the video option in the bios to AGP.

AGP is no longer used in any new computers and it is very hard to find AGP cards for sale as the choices are small. There are two different AGP video options , there is the onboard and there is the seperate card that you would put in an AGP slot on the motherboard.
If you have the onboard then you have to make a setting change in the bios to use either the Pci card or the onboard AGP.
If you had a motherboard that had an AGP slot then all you would have to do is put the AGP card in the slot and you would not have to make any changes in the bios. You would also not be using a pci card.
a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 3:23:10 PM

It would help to know your motherboard make and model. As others have said there is a difference between AGP, PCI and PCIe. The x850 was made in both AGP and PCIe (PCI Express). Motherboards usually only accept one or the other. Regular PCI is a legacy interface that isn't used for video cards (or any modern expansion card) anymore.

It also sounds like you have "onboard video" which is like having a video card built onto your motherboard. Usually one disables the onboard video when using an add-in graphics card.

If your system turns out to use an AGP graphics card (and if you actually have one) then the regular drivers from AMD (the makers of the radeon x850) will not install properly. AMD stopped supporting AGP cards in their newer driver releases. Instead they provide a separate driver called the AGP Hotfix driver. You will need to find the appropriate one of those if your card is AGP.
January 6, 2012 4:39:43 PM

Larkspur, I think that you hit on it. I was trying to remember and this card came either as an agp or pci and I bought the pci. Pcie was not available at that time or was way higher in cost, I cannot remember, but I remember not choosing it. Here is the source of my confusion, please bear with me.

I have all the paperwork from this card, box labels, etc., and cannot find it. One of those "saw it yesterday, God where is it" things. I do have the book. I addresses that this card can be an agp, pci or pcie.

I do not remember having to connect it to the power supply, so I do not think that it is agp, I do think that this card is a pci card, but NOT pcie.

With that said, I will continue to hunt that paperwork. When I find it, if this card is PCI, as I think, then PCI is the correct bios selection, but if it is agp, then the agp onboard option is what I use, or not? I am confused as to if that option is for a built in card, built into the motherboard and again, if this is not even something that is possible, like "she is so stupid", I apologize. It is just very confusing to me.

Where in the world would I find the agp fix for ati legacy drivers, and again, maybe the ATI cards that are problematic are newer? This card is old.

Also, my motherboard is an ASUS K8S-LA, is that what you need?
January 6, 2012 4:44:29 PM

Your motherboard says it has no 'onboard graphics'... and the graphics adapter it has is the AGP slot.... also has 3 PCI slots. So now you have to make sure your card is AGP. if it is then choose AGP/onboard for your graphics default in BIOS.
January 6, 2012 4:54:05 PM

Okay, that is what I remembered as well, there were pci slots and that was what I chose I think. Where in the world is that stupid paper with the labels stapled to it?
a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 5:09:27 PM

seeknpeace said:
Also, my motherboard is an ASUS K8S-LA, is that what you need?


Yes, very helpful. As said above, your board wants an AGP card. As far as the PCI vs PCIe thing does: I seriously doubt there were any legacy PCI cards made with the x850. It was a pretty good chip at the time and was too powerful for the legacy PCI interface (I think). But you said that you plugged the card in? I didn't think a PCIe card would fit in an AGP or legacy PCI slot... I think you have an AGP card and your problem is finding the right drivers.

I looked at the latest "AGP Hotfix driver" at: http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/CatalystAGPH...

It doesn't list the x850 or any of that series of GPUs. The oldest it says it supports is the HD2000 and up. Have you tried that one? If that doesn't work then you need to find previous versions of that same "AGP Hotfix" driver until you find one old enough to work... I don't know what dusty old repository AMD keeps them in. Maybe your card manufacturer might actually provide the original driver that came with the card - Try finding that or using the original disk that came with it. That might get you going.
a c 103 U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 5:17:09 PM

The option you are referring to is the VGA post order. If the computer detects two video cards, one attached over AGP and one attached over PCI, it has to choose which one to use. Modern chipsets also have this (well, the ones that still have PCI) as well. If you only have one graphics card, then this option will not do anything
January 6, 2012 5:25:50 PM

Ok, this is what I have done, I downloaded the newest legacy, or last, catalyst control/driver software. I installed it and my machine is booting now. If I get a black screen, then I am going to go back in and change the video setting in the bios and restart and see if that works. The edition of CCC that I tried to install that did this before was one that I had downloaded and saved to my computer. It appeared to be the exact same thing as the one for download. This time I used the new one in download, beit the same or not.

Ha, black frigging screen. At least I can get to bios...

No go. Nada. Black screen even with the agp onboard chosen. I hate this. I just want to run this stupid computer again. I am going to have to do a system recovery again, I guess. Shoot. me.
January 6, 2012 5:43:24 PM

Tmanishere said:
I highly doubt that you have the standard PCI X850. Can you look at the card and see if the connecting tab matches with any one of these?

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/directron/expressguide1....


I cannot tell for sure, there are three cards. I am not sure which is the video card. Honestly, I used to be able to do all of this and it is very frustrating now. Thank you for your help, I took pics but I have no idea how to send it. I tried the insert pic thing here and it asked for a url and I was lost.
January 6, 2012 5:48:43 PM

I tried making my profile pic a pic of this mess. I will try to message a pic to yyou, tmanishere
a c 251 U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 5:53:17 PM

The card closest to the cpu is usually the video card and since you have an old computer then the other cards are probably a sound card and modem card.
If you put the picture on your desktop then when you want to add it you just slect browse and select the pic.
January 6, 2012 5:58:33 PM

inzone said:
The card closest to the cpu is usually the video card and since you have an old computer then the other cards are probably a sound card and modem card.
If you put the picture on your desktop then when you want to add it you just slect browse and select the pic.


select browse from where? The drop down for insert pic brings up the need for you to define it, as in a url or something and that is way beyond my scope.
a c 251 U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 6:04:04 PM

If you go into your profile and select modify my picture the you should see an option to enter an address in a box and at the end of the box it says Browse. If you select it then you can clic on the picture that is on your desktop or navigate to my pictures and select it there.
January 6, 2012 6:05:15 PM

Tmanishere said:
Yeah. You got an AGP card. You need to find a old Radeon driver for that.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf-JAVA/Doc/images/c005011...


Could I have left the old card in there, could the agp slot have the old one in it, and then the pci next to it is my video card that I am trying to update? The smallest card is added memory, right? there are three. One is green and it is the pci, I think, and then one is red, and a larger card. There is a smaller green one, looks like the size of added memory to me, on the other side of the green one.
January 6, 2012 6:06:12 PM

inzone said:
If you go into your profile and select modify my picture the you should see an option to enter an address in a box and at the end of the box it says Browse. If you select it then you can clic on the picture that is on your desktop or navigate to my pictures and select it there.


Oh, ok, I understand that and that is what I did. It is not showing, it must be too big or something. I added it but all I see are the red x's
a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 6:10:14 PM

Ok so since the card gets you to BIOS you aren't having a problem with the hardware per se.

You are having a problem with your Windows graphics driver. You definitely have an AGP graphics card and it is definitely installed correctly since you can get to your BIOS screen.

You need to try to boot Windows in SAFE MODE. Do so by pressing F8 repeatedly as soon as your turn on your system. Then select "Safe Mode".

If your computer won't boot in safe mode then you do have a problem with your config. If it does boot to safe mode then you have a driver problem. You need a program like "Driver Sweeper". Boot into safe mode and run Driver Sweeper. Tell it to remove all of the "ATI Graphics" drivers. Then reboot the machine normally and try to install the AGP Hotfix drivers. If the drivers don't work (ie you get the black screen again) then you need to fully repeat this process (remove the drivers in safe mode) and try a previous version of the AGP hotfix driver.

Like I said earlier you might need to get older versions of the drivers since the 11.12 AGP Hotfix edition doesn't list your card. Previous versions (probably like 10.x (maybe) or 9.x (definitely) WILL support your card. If you are having trouble finding an older AGP hotfix driver then try some of the AGP card manufacturer's websites (preferably your own card's manufacturer).
a c 251 U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 6:10:39 PM

Before it is posted as your sig it has to be approved by the site so it could take a bit of time , not sure how long. I just deleted my picture to get a better feel to what you are seeing and it is Associated Picture that you want and it does have the same browse option , just wait a bit for it to show up.
January 6, 2012 6:19:37 PM

seeknpeace said:
Oh, ok, I understand that and that is what I did. It is not showing, it must be too big or something. I added it but all I see are the red x's


seeknpeace said:
Could I have left the old card in there, could the agp slot have the old one in it, and then the pci next to it is my video card that I am trying to update? The smallest card is added memory, right? there are three. One is green and it is the pci, I think, and then one is red, and a larger card. There is a smaller green one, looks like the size of added memory to me, on the other side of the green one.


http://www.bytefixx.com/ebay/crd3596.jpg

Is this what your card looks like? That's the X850 AGP. If you think you might have old PCI video card at the bottom, try taking those out to prevent your computer from getting confused. I can't tell without seeing the back of the computer.
a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 6:21:53 PM

And thinking about it further, at some point the REGULAR Catalyst drivers would still have support for AGP cards like yours. You could try running an older version of the catalyst driver (that is a regular edition not an "AGP hotfix" edition). I'm not sure at what version of catalyst that AMD stopped including AGP drivers in the unified driver release. But any of their regular drivers prior to that version should work.
January 6, 2012 6:24:25 PM

larkspur said:
Ok so since the card gets you to BIOS you aren't having a problem with the hardware per se.

You are having a problem with your Windows graphics driver. You definitely have an AGP graphics card and it is definitely installed correctly since you can get to your BIOS screen.

You need to try to boot Windows in SAFE MODE. Do so by pressing F8 repeatedly as soon as your turn on your system. Then select "Safe Mode".

If your computer won't boot in safe mode then you do have a problem with your config. If it does boot to safe mode then you have a driver problem. You need a program like "Driver Sweeper". Boot into safe mode and run Driver Sweeper. Tell it to remove all of the "ATI Graphics" drivers. Then reboot the machine normally and try to install the AGP Hotfix drivers. If the drivers don't work (ie you get the black screen again) then you need to fully repeat this process (remove the drivers in safe mode) and try a previous version of the AGP hotfix driver.

Like I said earlier you might need to get older versions of the drivers since the 11.12 AGP Hotfix edition doesn't list your card. Previous versions (probably like 10.x (maybe) or 9.x (definitely) WILL support your card. If you are having trouble finding an older AGP hotfix driver then try some of the AGP card manufacturer's websites (preferably your own card's manufacturer).



OMG...thank you more than you will know, I will not have to do a system recovery. My effort had been to revove the ATI drivers, I did a sys restore, then I had to get my virus software on there first, before going online. I did that, and then downloaded the ATI drivers and installed them. There are a ton of updates that I need to do because of the recovery, I wish that I would have known how to get to safe mode before this. I just could not figure it out. I will work on this and report back what happens. But, should I now be using the agp onboard? I don't know why I think that this thing is a pci, but for some reason I do. I have hunted that stupid information until I can scream. It would clear this up pronto.
January 6, 2012 6:29:20 PM

Tmanishere said:
http://www.bytefixx.com/ebay/crd3596.jpg

Is this what your card looks like? That's the X850 AGP. If you think you might have old PCI video card at the bottom, try taking those out to prevent your computer from getting confused. I can't tell without seeing the back of the computer.


Ok, there is definately a card in the agp slot, and it looks a lot like the one you sent a link to, only ATI is not prominently displayed as it shows on the one in the link.

There is also a green card in the pci slot, a large one, that is confusing me. What does the pci card look like, do you know?
a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 6:33:03 PM

seeknpeace said:
OMG...thank you more than you will know, I will not have to do a system recovery. My effort had been to revove the ATI drivers, I did a sys restore, then I had to get my virus software on there first, before going online. I did that, and then downloaded the ATI drivers and installed them. There are a ton of updates that I need to do because of the recovery, I wish that I would have known how to get to safe mode before this. I just could not figure it out. I will work on this and report back what happens. But, should I now be using the agp onboard? I don't know why I think that this thing is a pci, but for some reason I do. I have hunted that stupid information until I can scream. It would clear this up pronto.


I think either setting will do. I believe the AGP/PCI setting you have is simply to allow you to use a legacy PCI video card (or as someone said earlier it is a selector in case both a legacy PCI video card and an AGP card are installed at the same time). Since you definitely aren't using a legacy PCI video card, just set it to AGP.

Yeah, safe mode is very helpful for bad driver installs. Before you reinstall all your programs focus on getting the graphics driver working properly. Get Driver Sweeper (it's free) and follow those steps I outlined. You need to find yourself the right driver. It looks like you've tried the latest AGP Hotfix driver and it doesn't work with your card. Find an older version that says it supports your card. Maybe look for an AGP Hotfix driver version of 9.x and try that.
January 6, 2012 6:40:21 PM

Also, make sure you are connecting your monitor to your AGP card. I say this because I see that your motherboard has a VGA connector on it.
a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 6:48:30 PM

Tmanishere said:
Also, make sure you are connecting your monitor to your AGP card. I say this because I see that your motherboard has a VGA connector on it.


Yeah I noticed that too... But oem boards sometimes have a connector (that is usually covered) but no actual onboard graphics. I think it's b/c the SiS 760 could optionally come with SiS's mirage integrated graphics. Great point though, maybe that board does have onboard graphics idk that's the problem with oem boards, so little info.
January 6, 2012 6:59:19 PM

Tmanishere said:
http://www.do-dat.net/products/computer/images/ATi-Rage...

That's what a ATI-Rage 128 (PCI) would look like. That was very common back then. It'll have a VGA connection at the back of your computer.


No, that is not it, the green one in the slot has all this stuff and white things sticking out of it, bulky.
a c 251 U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 7:01:40 PM

Could be a sound card. If you look at the back of the computer on the outside you will see the end of the card and by looking at the end of the card you can tell what it is.
a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 7:20:43 PM

Well I didn't look at that PCI card very hard but I am starting to think it may be an ATI All-in-Wonder card. Since this is a Media Center Edition OEM PC it is reasonable to assume they would use an all-in-wonder card. Those cards have an enclosed shielded housing for one of the connectors that looks kind of like the OP's original picture. Waiting on a pic from the back to confirm. If it is, then it will obviously have a monitor output and the OP will be best suited removing it completely. Those cables may be for front-panel video/audio ports.
January 6, 2012 7:22:49 PM

Okay to futher stir this stew, I put the disc in that came with this card. It has three selections under adapter information.

Under the heading ATI Mobility Fire GL 7800 AGP it says in the Bus Type it is AGP 4x AGP 8x

Under the heading for Radeon 9000 PRO Secondary PCI it says in the BUS type PCI

Under System information it just gives the cpu, motherboard, sys memory, OS version and direct X version.

In the mobility fire one it lists video memory at 256 mb dram 256K x 16. Display driver not detected. It says that it is the primary display.

In the Radeon 9000 one it shows memory not detected and display driver not detected and says it is not the primary display.

Does this help or further confuse things?
January 6, 2012 7:25:47 PM

larkspur said:
Well I didn't look at that PCI card very hard but I am starting to think it may be an ATI All-in-Wonder card. Since this is a Media Center Edition OEM PC it is reasonable to assume they would use an all-in-wonder card. Those cards have an enclosed shielded housing for one of the connectors that looks kind of like the OP's original picture. Waiting on a pic from the back to confirm. If it is, then it will obviously have a monitor output and the OP will be best suited removing it completely. Those cables may be for front-panel video/audio ports.


Wow. I haven't heard ATI All-in-Wonder in a long time! Man, this is turning into a mystery puzzle! :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 7:37:45 PM

seeknpeace said:
Does this help or further confuse things?


Well any info helps, but that particular info also confuses... Please take a pic from the back of the computer showing all the connections like Tman suggested.
January 6, 2012 7:38:48 PM

the listed components to be installed from the orig. disc that came with this has remote wonder 2, but not all in wonder, I am pretty sure that was not part of this cards sw.
January 6, 2012 7:44:54 PM

I'm pretty sure the picture tells me:

Top: X850 AGP graphics card
Middle: Sound Card (PCI)
Bottom: Ethernet Card/Modem (PCI)

P.S. Nevermind... you got some kind of All in one video card in the middle! Take that out! Nao!


P.S.S. It actually looks like a TV card (PCI).
January 6, 2012 7:51:28 PM

seeknpeace said:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/dsc01760b.jpg/

I hope that is correct.



Is it just the light from your camera's flash reflecting oddly or are those 4 green capacitors on the motherboard raised? (In other words, possibly failing)

Edit: Middle card looks to be a tv card...
January 6, 2012 7:54:23 PM

Anaximander said:
Is it just the light from your camera's flash reflecting oddly or are those 4 green capacitors on the motherboard raised? (In other words, possibly failing)


I think it is the flash, but I will check further. I looked and cannot see what you are talking about?
January 6, 2012 7:59:13 PM

Tmanishere said:
I'm pretty sure the picture tells me:

Top: X850 AGP graphics card
Middle: Sound Card (PCI)
Bottom: Ethernet Card/Modem (PCI)


That sounds right! So, it is an agp card. I am going to dload other sw and see if it will work. Also, I saved all the updates and sw from forever in a file, so I have newer than is being shown on the legacy site, not the newest but newer than the ones thrown in the bin. I have always hated this about ATI.

How do you guys feel about their cards for when I upgrade? I never want one that requires me to uninstall to install again because they started dropping components of their sw as they did that. I lost some of the things that were available from the start.
January 6, 2012 8:00:55 PM

Tmanishere said:
I'm pretty sure the picture tells me:

Top: X850 AGP graphics card
Middle: Sound Card (PCI)
Bottom: Ethernet Card/Modem (PCI)

P.S. Nevermind... you got some kind of All in one video card in the middle! Take that out! Nao!


Okay, so I found the card that I removed, though. Is there a reason that would be there? Did this stupid hp come with two video cards? You are saying for me to remove the green one, the pci one in the middle?
a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2012 8:01:01 PM

Ok, so the middle card has a yellow RCA connector marked "Video". I don't think a sound card would have that plus there is a jack for a break-out dongle. I dunno really but it looks like some kind of TV tuner/All-in-Wonder thing that I would remove if trying to use another graphics card.

Seekn - I'm pretty much at the limit of what I can do for you. My advice is to figure out what that middle card is - it doesn't look like you need it and then remove it. I don't think its a sound card (b/c of the "video" out that it has) and you already have onboard sound anyway.

The other card looks a lot like either a modem or an ethernet jack - since you don't need a modem anymore (unless you are dialing up) and since you already have onboard ethernet you probably don't need it in there.

So to sum it up - If you can't figure out what that middle card does, remove it along with the modem/network card and try again with your driver install while having only the AGP card (the one closest to the CPU) connected.
January 6, 2012 8:01:54 PM

Sorry! I made a quick glance and wasn't sure what it was. It looks like TV card.
!