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I am looking for advice on an upgrade

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March 11, 2012 12:38:09 PM

I shoot short movies on a Canon 7D which creates huge files.
I edit using Sony Vegas and my current PC cannot handle the stress.
Playback in the timeline is very choppy, with the computer producing about 6 frames a second at best. It should be 24.
At the moment I have a AMD 64FX-62 and 4 x 1GB DDR2 800mhz.
I'm upgrading to an i7 and 16GB RAM with a £500 budget. Here are my questions.

1. Is the 2700k worth the extra £ over the 2600k?

2. Is it better to get 2 x 8GB sticks or 4 x 4GB sticks and why do all the bundles come with 4 sticks?

3. Is there a noticeable difference between 1333 and 1600mhz RAM? I've heard that 1600 can be unstable.

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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
March 11, 2012 12:46:55 PM

Good morning,

1. With your computer usage, I'd say yes. Normally, I'd say no to a gamer. Theres no advantage in gaming with the 2500k vs 2600k, however in heavily threaded programs like video editing, the advantage does exist. How much is negligible however.

2. First, make sure your motherboard can support 8GB sticks. As far as which is the better choice, this depends on how long you plan to get out of this computer.

If you think it will be in service to you long enough (several years at this rate) to require more than 16GB of RAM (assuming your board supports 32GB) then you may want to consider the 8GB modules for the simple fact that in order to max out the board, you'd be throwing away your 4GB modules to make room for them. Bundles come with 4 sticks because most motherboards have 4 DIMM slots these days.

Other than that, the only real golden rule to consider (and in my experience even it is questionable) is that 2 sticks run better than a single regardless of capacity or bus speed.

3. Not really.

Not to sound patronizing, but you are aware you cant put the i7 into that motherboard with the AMD processor correct? You'll need a whole new motherboard, and potentially some other components as well.
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March 11, 2012 12:59:15 PM

Nek, yes I'm aware I'll need a new MOBO.
If you could recommend one that has a firewire port that'd be a bonus.
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
March 11, 2012 1:25:55 PM

bruvvamoff said:
Nek, yes I'm aware I'll need a new MOBO.
If you could recommend one that has a firewire port that'd be a bonus.


Most of them do, although FireWire has *issues*, it never has worked very well regardless of the brand of motherboard the port is sitting on just an FYI. I know you're asking most likely because thats how your camera connects to your PC. Just to say, I wouldn't be surprised if you came across a "technical difficulty"

As far as brands, Asus, MSI, and AsRock, I've heard a lot of people saying good things about. It really depends on your budget. I'd stick to a Z68 chipset regardless of the brand or model of motherboard you decide to go with. You need an LGA 1155 socket type for the 2500k or 2600k. I can't really give you a very good model recommendation as I'm not too familiar with European prices or whats available to you in your budget, but those are criteria I would look for in your selection.

Obviously, you'll want to look for one that has a firewire port as well, even if it doesn't, this shouldn't be a deal breaker as you could always purchase a Firewire card relatively cheap. like this one http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...
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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 11, 2012 1:58:59 PM

bruvvamoff said:
I shoot short movies on a Canon 7D which creates huge files.
I edit using Sony Vegas and my current PC cannot handle the stress.
Playback in the timeline is very choppy, with the computer producing about 6 frames a second at best. It should be 24.
At the moment I have a AMD 64FX-62 and 4 x 1GB DDR2 800mhz.
I'm upgrading to an i7 and 16GB RAM with a £500 budget. Here are my questions.

1. Is the 2700k worth the extra £ over the 2600k?

2. Is it better to get 2 x 8GB sticks or 4 x 4GB sticks and why do all the bundles come with 4 sticks?

3. Is there a noticeable difference between 1333 and 1600mhz RAM? I've heard that 1600 can be unstable.


1. The 2700k is a marketing gimmick they upped the multiplier by 100 mhz.

2. It depends on cost and/or motherboard support nothing really "better"

3.Not really, I'm using 1600 and have no problems

Are you looking for integrated firewire or onboard?

You definitely want a z68 for quicksync.
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March 11, 2012 2:20:16 PM

If you are feeling up to it and dont want to overspend, you could get the 2500k with a good cooler and clock it up to 4.5ghz, which I am sure would blow Son Vegas away. (Although I have to admit I dont really know.

Also just to put this in here, dosnt sandy bridge have big problems with 8GB sticks of RAM?
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March 11, 2012 2:29:34 PM

Quote:
1. The 2700k is a marketing gimmick they upped the multiplier by 100 mhz.

2. It depends on cost and/or motherboard support nothing really "better"

3.Not really, I'm using 1600 and have no problems

Are you looking for integrated firewire or onboard?

You definitely want a z68 for quicksync.


The z68 is what is included in the bundle I'm considering, but for an extra £70 I can have the z68 pro which has a firewire. However £70 seems way too much. I've contacted the seller on ebay to ask why such an increase.

The Z68 bundle

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-I7-2700K-3-5Ghz-16GB-16...

The Z68 PRO bundle

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-I7-2700K-3-5Ghz-16GB-16...

Other than the firewire port (which isn'y a necessity) are there any other advantages to the PRO when it comes to video editing?
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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 11, 2012 2:33:11 PM

bruvvamoff said:
The z68 is what is included in the bundle I'm considering, but for an extra £70 I can have the z68 pro which has a firewire. However £70 seems way too much. I've contacted the seller on ebay to ask why such an increase.

The Z68 bundle

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-I7-2700K-3-5Ghz-16GB-16...

The Z68 PRO bundle

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-I7-2700K-3-5Ghz-16GB-16...

Other than the firewire port (which isn'y a necessity) are there any other advantages to the PRO when it comes to video editing?


No. The Pro is $80 more in Canada.

Another thing is that the firewire is internal on the pro and you would need to buy a case with firewire port.
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March 11, 2012 2:41:55 PM

Max1s said:
If you are feeling up to it and dont want to overspend, you could get the 2500k with a good cooler and clock it up to 4.5ghz, which I am sure would blow Son Vegas away. (Although I have to admit I dont really know.

Also just to put this in here, dosnt sandy bridge have big problems with 8GB sticks of RAM?


If that is even partly true then it will explain why none of the bundles include 8GB sticks.
Maybe I'm being greedy when I compromise stability for the sake of a possible 32GB of Ram in a few years.
Regarding the cpu, I already decided on 2600k minimum. The difference between 2600 and 2700 was the main question.
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March 11, 2012 2:49:19 PM

Quote:
No. The Pro is $80 more in Canada.

Another thing is that the firewire is internal on the pro and you would need to buy a case with firewire port.


I have an Antec P180, I just discovered it has a firewire port at the front.
How would I go about hooking it up to the Z68?
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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 11, 2012 2:52:11 PM

bruvvamoff said:
I have an Antec P180, I just discovered it has a firewire port at the front.
How would I go about hooking it up to the Z68?


This motherboard has internal firewire

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gigabyte-SKT-1155-Z68X-UD3H-B3-...

it's 120 pounds

If you combine it with the other parts from amazon you have a firewire computer for the price of the 1st bundle

there is a cable leading from the port in the front of the case, you just connect it to the
firewire header on the motherboard. It's very simple.
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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 11, 2012 3:02:58 PM

bruvvamoff said:
I appreciate you hunting around for me but the CPU you linked is a 2600k not a 2700k, also the Ram isn't Vengance. That would explain the cheaper prices.


As I said before the 2700k is a 2600k with a bumped up multiplier of 100 mhz. The K processors are unlocked so it doesn't make any difference since you can overclock it yourself. The vengeance ram costs like 5 pounds more it's not any better than the ram i showed you. The heatsink is too tall and gets in the way of aftermarket cooler if you desire to overclock your cpu.

It's your choice i'm just trying to save you some money.

here us the vengeance ram 3 pounds more http://www.amazon.co.uk/Corsair-CMZ16GX3M4A1600C9B-1600...
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March 11, 2012 3:57:33 PM

- I also have a Canon 7D - great camera! You're going to see a big improvement in your upgrade no matter what i7 base you chose.

- you've got some good advice given above........

- I'd also recommend you save some money (unless you get a good deal) and get the 2600K - make sure it's the K version so you can overclock later if you wish. There really isn't any noticeable difference between the 2600 and 2700 - do check out Tom's CPU benchmarks for proof.

- 12-16GB is more than enough for 7D video work, though it won't harm allowing for more later on - depending on number of m'board memory slots, as was said above, try to chose as large a chip size as possible so that you don't have to throw any out for a later upgrade

- Are you using a CF firewire card reader to import your files into your PC?....nice idea....never looked into this myself - I use a Lexar USB2 CF card reader. Do your CF cards support the higher firewire (800?) read speeds? If you had a USB2 reader it would be very interesting to see what difference firewire makes over USB2 for the CF cards you use! Check your firewire reader's manufacturer's website or email them to see if they recommend a particular firewire chipset. I also do a bit of music recordind and needed to make sure that I used the TI (Texas instruments) firewire chipet for best compatibility. BUT....I'm fairly sure most modern chipset/driver's shouldn't give you many problems. I find Gigabyte m'boards good for firewire for audio recording use (TI chipset built in - do confirm, though).

- Providing you have an NVIDIA card, and if you can, do try to get hold of Adobe Premiere and/or Photoshop - they make use of CUDA to greatly accelerate some features e.g. mercury playback engine in Premiere. Most NVIDIA cards can be 'patched' if they're not officially supported for CUDA. Again, do check Adobe's website and/or do a CUDA + Adobe search for benefit info.......what we would do without internet research for purchases / holidays / etc these days!!


As I said, you're gonna see a big improvement no matter what i7 base you chose.
Next thing to get (unless you have one) --> SD drive - big enough for for OS + gfx program + gfx prog scratch/working folder - 120GB should do. This will make another really BIG difference to all your PC useage!!

- Enjoy using your new system!

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March 11, 2012 9:21:32 PM

mesab66 said:
- I also have a Canon 7D - great camera! You're going to see a big improvement in your upgrade no matter what i7 base you chose.

- you've got some good advice given above........

- I'd also recommend you save some money (unless you get a good deal) and get the 2600K - make sure it's the K version so you can overclock later if you wish. There really isn't any noticeable difference between the 2600 and 2700 - do check out Tom's CPU benchmarks for proof.

- 12-16GB is more than enough for 7D video work, though it won't harm allowing for more later on - depending on number of m'board memory slots, as was said above, try to chose as large a chip size as possible so that you don't have to throw any out for a later upgrade

- Are you using a CF firewire card reader to import your files into your PC?....nice idea....never looked into this myself - I use a Lexar USB2 CF card reader. Do your CF cards support the higher firewire (800?) read speeds? If you had a USB2 reader it would be very interesting to see what difference firewire makes over USB2 for the CF cards you use! Check your firewire reader's manufacturer's website or email them to see if they recommend a particular firewire chipset. I also do a bit of music recordind and needed to make sure that I used the TI (Texas instruments) firewire chipet for best compatibility. BUT....I'm fairly sure most modern chipset/driver's shouldn't give you many problems. I find Gigabyte m'boards good for firewire for audio recording use (TI chipset built in - do confirm, though).

- Providing you have an NVIDIA card, and if you can, do try to get hold of Adobe Premiere and/or Photoshop - they make use of CUDA to greatly accelerate some features e.g. mercury playback engine in Premiere. Most NVIDIA cards can be 'patched' if they're not officially supported for CUDA. Again, do check Adobe's website and/or do a CUDA + Adobe search for benefit info.......what we would do without internet research for purchases / holidays / etc these days!!


As I said, you're gonna see a big improvement no matter what i7 base you chose.
Next thing to get (unless you have one) --> SD drive - big enough for for OS + gfx program + gfx prog scratch/working folder - 120GB should do. This will make another really BIG difference to all your PC useage!!

- Enjoy using your new system!


Hey Mesa

Thanks for your reply. So good to finally meet someone technically minded who also has a DSLR.
May I ask, do you edit the CR2 files directly on your software or do you recode it before hand?
I've heard that most people recode with cineform. I tried it with not much improvement, altho some. I'm wondering if I will still need to do that after the upgrade, guess I'll have to wait and see.
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March 11, 2012 10:43:28 PM

I use Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 and can import in native 7D formats - .cr2/raw stills or .mov movies (no need for pre-conversion), before saving them in a project format, or, final playback format. I haven't worked with Vegas but I'm sure you'll be saving your films in the equivalent Vegas project format. You will also be able to save in a format suitable for generic file playback (e.g. .iso, .mkv) or image burning to BD disc e.g. 720/1080p - simply chose the appropriate final conversion format and appropriate export function.

There are other video editing companies whose products allow native import of the 7D files.....can't remember which - again, a simple google will help.

I'm afraid I don't know much about Cineform - never needed to use it.

The i7 set up you're looking at (12-16GB / 2600K) will definitely allow you to work smoothly compared to your current set up.

Do a "canon 7d + vegas" and "canon 7d + video editing" google and check out some of the many helpful sites - they'll point you onto good ways to use your camera/software: - e.g

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E7D/E7DVIDEO.HTM

http://philipbloom.net/2009/09/07/dublins-people-shot-o...

http://philipbloom.net/category/dslrposts/dslr-shooting...

http://www.*****/how-to/convert-canon-eos-7d-mov-to-avi-mwv.html

http://philipbloom.net/tutorials-1/canon-5dmkii-tutoria...

etc...etc

NVIDIA CUDA is very handy but don't worry if you have an ATI gfx card instead.

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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
March 11, 2012 11:27:49 PM

bruvvamoff said:
If that is even partly true then it will explain why none of the bundles include 8GB sticks.
Maybe I'm being greedy when I compromise stability for the sake of a possible 32GB of Ram in a few years.
Regarding the cpu, I already decided on 2600k minimum. The difference between 2600 and 2700 was the main question.



If Ivan is right about the 2600k vs the 2500k, its something I wasn't aware of. I can't confirm or deny it. I did mention that the performance difference between them was negligible. However, another option I could present to you is, Intel has started offering "overclockers insurance". I don't know if they offer it in Europe, but in the states, they're offering if for about 20 bucks. You fry your chip (which is rare to happen with modern CPUs) they send you a new one. I do know for a fact you can a very nice boost out of the 2500k, shes got a lot of extra steam to give, and its relatively easy to do.

As to why you don't see 8GB sticks in bundle packages yet, this is due to the fact that 8GB modules are still relatively new on the market. Many stores I found when I built my system last month still aren't even stocking individual sticks in large quantities. TigerDirect (which is a pretty big and reputable online store in the states, told me they'd have to order them for me and would take some time), Newegg (another big chain here) had them sold out, I ended up driving 3 hours to get mine.

Bottom line, the lack of availability you're finding isn't due to any kind of problem with them.
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March 11, 2012 11:36:04 PM

bruvvamoff said:
I shoot short movies on a Canon 7D which creates huge files.
I edit using Sony Vegas and my current PC cannot handle the stress.
Playback in the timeline is very choppy, with the computer producing about 6 frames a second at best. It should be 24.
At the moment I have a AMD 64FX-62 and 4 x 1GB DDR2 800mhz.
I'm upgrading to an i7 and 16GB RAM with a £500 budget. Here are my questions.

1. Is the 2700k worth the extra £ over the 2600k?

2. Is it better to get 2 x 8GB sticks or 4 x 4GB sticks and why do all the bundles come with 4 sticks?

3. Is there a noticeable difference between 1333 and 1600mhz RAM? I've heard that 1600 can be unstable.



I prefer i7 2600K, it supports hyper threading, it can be overclock with a Z68 or P67 motherboard, put a 16 GB DDR 3 2133 MHZ and you good to go.
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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 12, 2012 1:18:57 AM

nekulturny said:
If Ivan is right about the 2600k vs the 2500k, its something I wasn't aware of. I can't confirm or deny it. I did mention that the performance difference between them was negligible. However, another option I could present to you is, Intel has started offering "overclockers insurance". I don't know if they offer it in Europe, but in the states, they're offering if for about 20 bucks. You fry your chip (which is rare to happen with modern CPUs) they send you a new one. I do know for a fact you can a very nice boost out of the 2500k, shes got a lot of extra steam to give, and its relatively easy to do.

As to why you don't see 8GB sticks in bundle packages yet, this is due to the fact that 8GB modules are still relatively new on the market. Many stores I found when I built my system last month still aren't even stocking individual sticks in large quantities. TigerDirect (which is a pretty big and reputable online store in the states, told me they'd have to order them for me and would take some time), Newegg (another big chain here) had them sold out, I ended up driving 3 hours to get mine.

Bottom line, the lack of availability you're finding isn't due to any kind of problem with them.


Your confusing 2600k vs 2700k with 2500k vs 2600k.
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a c 118 B Homebuilt system
March 12, 2012 1:27:19 AM

Quote:
Your confusing 2600k vs 2700k with 2500k vs 2600k.



Ah okay, yea I see. You're probably right.
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March 19, 2012 6:28:21 AM

Thanks everyone

I ended up getting a 2700k Z68 16GB 1600mhz bundle. I found a good deal from a place in London.
You're right, it is phenomenolly fast. Placback still becomes choppy once I start to add effects but the main thing is it copes with colour curves and film effects, this is what I use mainly.
I'm requesting a SSD for my birthday :D 
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March 22, 2012 6:54:46 AM

Best answer selected by bruvvamoff.
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