Reoccuring problem, blue screens, wont repair, startup freezes

[themadhatta]

In short: My computer wont let me install software that requires a reboot because it will crash and then im confronted with the startup repair utility which never works. I need to recover from a backup in order to get my computer working again, and ive tried a fresh install on a new drive and i still have the same problem.


Heres one of the blue screen errors i got:
A problem has been deteceted etc etc...
MACHINE_CHECK_EXCEPTION
If this the first time youve seen this etc etc etc...
Technical information:
*** STOP: 0x0000009C (0X0000000000000000, 0XFFFFF88006303D70, 0X0000000000000000, 0X0000000000000000)
Collecting data for crash dump ...
Initializing disk for crash dump ...

After that the computer would just stay at that screen until i hit the reset/reboot button or turned it off.

Another blue screen error i jotted down:
machine_check_exception
0x0000009c 0xFFFFF88005F6DD70


Heres the story:
Got a new build for gaming that i put together so i could hopefully run any game in nvidias surround 3d vision for a while. 4th or 5th computer ive built, but the first one ive built that is this overloaded with new stuff i didnt know enough about.

When i first got everything together i was using 1 of my WD caviar black HDDs. I had it in a temporary location and durring the time that i was setting everything up the power cable connected to the PSU came loose. Not sure if this could have caused my problem, but felt it was worth mentioning. After running all of my windows update i encountered my problem. Either the last windows update i had to do, or the driver update for my GPUs which required a reboot, i had a blue screen. After rebooting i would then be told that windows has encountered an error and told me to click something to attempt to repair the computer. The computer failed to repair itself and told me it might be from a newly added usb device like a flash drive or something like that. Tried using just my mouse and keyboard plugged in and the problem persisted. Since then about half the time i run into the error i get the blue screen and the other half the computer will either freeze at the windows screen while rebooting or just reboot straight to the repair screen.

I installed my new samsung 830 series SSD and did a fresh install hoping that would solve the problem. I was able to get through most the updates for windows and install most the software i use on a daily basis. My ninite.com installed allowed all my usual programs to install including a reboot. But every time i try to update my nvidia drivers my computer either blue screens or crashes and im taken to the startup repair utility screen again. Id mention what updated i have to install in order to get everything up to date but for some reason my computer is waiting for me to restart it since it already installed what ever updates i had. I just keep putting the computer to sleep so that i can continue to use it. I did however notice that im having problems using firefox and my new mouse. Firefox seems to lag when typing and it misses letters, hasnt done it in a while but i have been using google chrome most of the time now. As for my mouse im using a BF3 2012 razer imperator, i have the firmware updated and the drivers installed but it seems to like to lag quite often when i drag the mouse around. Im a gamer and very anal about my mouse so im not using any acceleration or any other software than the configurator that came with the drivers. The only other thing i can think that may be the problem is that i had this fan installed into the computer case that covered the GPUs and i noticed it was putting force pushing the 2nd GPU down a bit and putting force on the 2 power cabled that the GPU needs, but everything looks fine and it wasnt anything serious enough to make me worry about it.

I get around this problem for the time being by using my windows backup on another drive. I update my backup whenever i get new docs or stuff i dont wanna lose.

I noticed that since i tried installing the latest drivers for my GPUs the last time, the installer no longer works. I get a failed to install error. But i still run the risk of having to recover from my backup whenever i restart my computer or try to update it with windows update.


Heres my build:
OS: Win7 64 bit Home Premium SP1 (gonna upgrade to ultimate when i can)

CPU: Intel Core i7-3960X

Ram: G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 32 gigs. - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231529 [newegg.com]

GPUs: 2 NVIDIA GeForce 590 GTX Classified cards

Mobo: Asus Rampage IV Extreme

SSD: Samsung 830 Series MZ-7PC512D/AM 512 gigs

HDDs: Several different unimportant drives for storage

PSU: Corsair AX 1200

Case: Cooler Master HAF X Blue Edition

CPU cooler: Corsair H100 hydro cooler with 4 cougar fans in a push pull configuration

I also have a pioneer blu ray burner installed if its of any concern.

 

[Raiddinn]

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/329284

You don't really need Windows 7 Ultimate, the major differences between Home Premium 64 and Ultimate 64 are 1) Better support for old Windows XP stuff most people aren't using anymore anyway, 2) easier to connect to domain networks, and 3) Bitlocker an encryption system.

If you really need either of those capabilities you can get free software from other companies than Microsoft that will do it just as well.

Most home users gain next to nothing from those features.

On the other hand, I am going to go out on a limb and say your computer is rejecting your RAM.

It is important to know what motherboard you have, but regardless it is pointless for 99.9% of people to have this RAM.

Due to the way the computer allocates memory, each program is usually allowed to consume up to 2 gigs of RAM for each instance it is running. Most people don't need to run multiple instances of the same game and don't play more than one game at the same time, so you definitely don't need 32 gigs of RAM for gaming.

A single webpage tab in a browser is going to be about 75 MBs so every 14 or so tabs you have open would be another 1GB, and the OS itself is going to be about 2 more GBs.

Add all that together and almost nobody breaks 8GBs much less 16GBs.

The computers that bust these figures are server systems that have to support 2000 user connections and open up an instance of a certain program for each user that connects to it all at the same time. They could have 2000 instances of some small program open and still bust 16GBs easily.

That doesn't really sound like it applies here.

Additionally, I would like to say that many motherboards flat out reject 8GB sticks, they just don't even know how to recognize them correctly. A problem that doesn't exist with 2GB or 4GB sticks.

Even further, these are 1866 speed 8GB sticks. The bigger the stick is, the more memory it has to look through in order to find the memory address it needs. You are asking it to look through 8GB and to do it much faster than a standard 1333 RAM stick would be able to do it in.

If it could recognize 8GB sticks at 1333, maybe it couldn't at 1866. It could be that the exceptions occur because it can't get the data it needs out of the RAM fast enough.

At this point, you have three options:

1) Download and run a program called MemTest86+. This will help to confirm that the RAM is the problem child. This will take a LONG time. Ideally, a computer's RAM will be tested in 10 different ways and for that to happen with only 8 GBs of RAM takes about 8 hours, doable while most people are sleeping. With 4x that much ram it would likely take 4x as long, so you would be looking at leaving this program running on the computer for 32 straight hours.

OR

2) You can buy a set of Crucial or Kingston 1333 RAM and stick it in there and see what happens. This doesn't hurt much, because RAM is almost never anyone's bottleneck. The difference between 1333 RAM and 1866 RAM is usually less than 1 FPS in games. The biggest difference you can achieve (archiving speed, like Winzip) is like 1 or 2% better speed.

When the regular RAM is used as VRAM, in systems that don't have any graphics cards, graphics performance can do better with faster RAM, but that's also not applicable here.

OR

3) You could play around with your current configuration. You could take out all except 1 stick and try to run with that, see if its stable. Then take that stick out and try a different stick and see if its stable. Ideally you would try each stick in each slot which would be 16 separate tests with 4 sticks and 4 slots or 32 tests with 4 sticks and 8 slots.

You can shortcut this last one, but the idea is to try to narrow down if any particular stick or slot is bad, so it can be difficult to tell which stick or slot is bad if you can't trust either side. When you get a bad result you don't know if it was the slot that caused it or the stick, you get the picture.

Anyway, pick your poison and have at it.

My suggestion, since you managed to shell out for $400 RAM anyway is just to drop by a computer store and do #2 since money doesn't seem to be an object. Note that I did say two specific brands out of many dozens that are on the market. Those two have much lower failure rates than pretty much anything else. 3x lower than G.Skill's average and G.Skill is kinda on the low end itself for most products.

Those two that I did mention, Crucial and Kingston, are tied for the lowest failure rates in the industry. It doesn't get better than those.

You should also get 1333 RAM as outlined above, if your system is rejecting RAM at 1866 speeds and you go get 2x 4GB 1866 RAM, the testing results may be misleading. There is no misleading with 1333, though, it is the industry standard and every board made in the last few years is primarily made to support that speed. Anything else is bonus.

Anyway, have at it and let me know how things progress.

- Edit - Typo

 

[themadhatta]

Thanks for all the info, ill be running the mem test software, already had it burned onto a dvd for when my laptop was acting up.

I must a been way to tired to post any of this info cuz it seems like all the threads i started last night were fails lol.

I cant believe i forgot to mention im using an asus rampage IV extreme mobo.

I was recommended that ram on this site when i was figuring out what parts to use for my build. This seemed like a fast nice option and considering it was recommended to me on here i figured id be fine. But lately ive found this forum is filled with a lot of people who believe their opinions are facts without even knowing it lol.

The reason i went all out with this setup is because back when i played SWG my old mmo, i would run up to 5 instances of the game on my main gaming rig at one time. Meanwhile i could have anywhere between 50 and 250 tabs open in firefox, and i might even be using pandora or itunes to play music as well.

The way my brain seems to work is by jumping between tasks and objectives which leaves me with a lot of open and unfinished tasks that i need to wrap up and save for the next day.

I miss having my old gaming computer that would last me a good 4 years without any problems and would run any game. So i kinda wanted to see if that was possible and also be able to play any new game that comes out with or without nvidias 3d surround vision, and maxed out graphics.

I shoulda figured to check crucial out they have such great products that never tend to let me down.

Anyways now that u know what mobo im running with, do u still think i should opt for other ram? If the ram isnt the problem that is.

And your saying that the more ram i have the more work my computer has to do to sift through it? But its sounds like that only applies if im not using a ton of a ram am i correct? I dont have all the drivers and everything up to date since i cant, but as is my computer is using 26% of my ram just doing my usual web browsing and checking up on things.

Im getting 26% from the windows gadget and idk how reliable that is.

Ill post again once i run the test.
Thanks again

 

[Raiddinn]

I am kinda surprised that someone here would suggest to you that you get $400 RAM. I don't devote much time to the $2000 build threads, but I don't know it kinda seems over the top for even what you are doing with 250 tabs open or whatever.

I am not going to say I am right every time or anything, I can only relate my experiences and what I think is a good next step to try on the road to making a diagnosis.

Personally, I would not suggest 8 gig sticks to anybody. They are just too flaky in my experience. I only suggest things I know will have the absolute greatest likelihood to work right out of the box, so I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole.

As far as missing the old gaming computer goes, I would think this one you have now would last 4 years if you just sort out whatever the problem is. A 590 is pretty top of the line as far as graphics cards go. Only the most expensive 7000 series ATI cards can beat it.

It will be a long time before such a card becomes obsoleted. More than 4 years. It wouldn't surprise me to hear you were playing stuff on ultra 4 years from now with that card.

Opting for other ram - If you do the tests and no errors come up before 10 passes get completed, then you might as well just keep the RAM you have.

Still, it would be nice if you could at least try it with a regular stick of RAM you could borrow from somebody. That regardless of how the MemTest86+ works out.

Crucial RAM - I heard about RAM failing from every other maker other than Crucial. Only one time did I hear of a set of Crucial RAM failing and it was a set of 8 gig sticks that weren't recognized by the board. The person downsized to 2x 4GB of Crucial and the board picked it up right away.

I like stuff that doesn't fail and when they do let people down it isn't usually their fault I have to say.

Only using 26% of RAM - It really depends on how the OS is allocating the addresses. If you have 4 sticks and 26% RAM usage it could be using 100% of 1 stick and a negligible amount from each of the other 3. That would still leave a lot of stuff for that one stick to look through.

Mind you I don't design RAM chips for a living or anything like that. Just speculation on my part as far as that goes.

 

[themadhatta]

lol, yeah i guess i just got the wrong ram... thank god i came up with a resolution to my money problem so i should be able to get more ram even though i really wish i didnt have to.

Ill post the photos up of the screen i ran into when i wake up tomorrow.

I got through 7 tests and then next thing i know i look over and i see some of the regular testing text going through its routine numbers and what not but then under and in between stuff and pretty much every where a space would exist theres this weird smiley face. It keep showing <Y[]>> its basically a < then a T with the top part of the T looking like a ~ then the smiley face in place of [] and then a smaller double arrow replacing the >> if that makes any sense lol

never seen anything like that before....

 

[Raiddinn]

Do post the screenshot, it is interesting to me.

Usually, errors occur as horizontal lines highlighted by red. That it doesn't sound like the case here makes me wonder if RAM is indeed the problem.

I would try to borrow a RAM stick if you can rather than buying anything.

I only heard about this sort of problem a couple times before and I seem to remember that one person said their processor was the problem. That they were able to downclock their processor and it became stable.

Mind you, it could still easily be a RAM problem that is showing itself in the block that is being dedicated to the display during the MemText, and I am still looking with a suspicious eye at that RAM for the reasons outlined above.

Not sure how many people you know that you could borrow a 4 gig stick from, but if there are any it would be a good idea to ask them. If not at least it is only $20 or so to buy a quality 1x 4GB 1333 stick from Crucial or Kingston.

 

[themadhatta]

When making this build ram was one of the main things that eluded me and still does. I dont know what numbers are what and what is of importance and what isnt. Thats why i went with the recommendation i got, i cant remember how i compared the speed to other recommendation i got or what ever i was originally looking at, buy settled for the ones i got.

I do have an older build lemme find the link for the ram, then hopefully u could tell me that i can borrow the ram from that build and put a stick or what ever u recommend in this build to see if that resolves the problem.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LZ1FPG/ref=oh_o03_s00_i01_details

Whats your opinion on corsair's ram? I love everything they make lol. Have a lot of their products as you can tell, and i just love the corsair link cooling system, one of my favorite computer parts/products ive owned in years. I was just trying to get the best ram i could for gaming and my build that would be fast allow for crazy multitasking and would last for ages. I had plans to up the ram by buying another kit of the 32 gigs i already have... thank god we caught this before i had the money to splurge lol.

My main concern is since ive been using the computer as messed up as it is, i dont wanna find out that by continuing to use this computer in this state that i have damaged some parts somehow. Should i be worried about something like that?

 

[Niva]

Uh... something looks hideously wrong with that Memtest screenshot, though it's been about a year since I used memtest myself.

As originally stated it appears you're having a problem with the RAM. If possible return to defaults and start tweaking from there. Check what's recommended from your mobo in terms of RAM, all manufacturers release tested configurations, go with what they've tested.

You're not going to damage anything except the possibly the RAM (and only if you've increased voltages too high.)

Your OS may have issues by the sound of it, but after you get your RAM stable you should possibly be able to straighten that out or reinstall from scratch.

What possessed you to get that CPU for gaming? Kids these days...

In general I rate Kingston RAM the best, I've had two instances now where other manufacturers simply would not work well in Asus and a Gigabyte mobos and Kingston was rock solid.

 

[themadhatta]

lol i went with the cpu because i wanted something that would last me as long as possible and would, well... be overkill for gaming XP

As for the build, i installed the ram in the slots as recommended in the mobos manual. I read that thing almost front to back before i started messing with stuff. The reason i say almost is because i skimmed/skipped some parts that were elementary stuff i already knew. I have been dealing with this problem on two fresh installs using a CD that i used on a laptop and my other 2 desktops and all of them are running perfectly fine in terms of the OS. Laptop is on its last legs hardware wise. Each install was using a different drive.

I also have never tweaked a thing. Just been trying to get the computer to the state where its fully updated and ready to go so i can get BF3 fully installed, maxed out and ready to go aswell. So far i cant get that far due to the windows update and driver installs that cause my computer to crash.

If i were to reinstall the OS i would still not tweak anything and ive even tried resetting the mobo using the button it has for resetting the bios which i love having.

The reason why i mentioned i wanna upgrade to windows ultimate is because i have an upgrade key for windows xp to windows vista, then an upgrade for windows vista to windows 7, then an upgrade for windows 7 home premium to windows 7 ultimate. Problem is i have no idea what happened to my old xp upgrade key so i cant use any of these upgrades so that i can have a completely legit install of windows.

Anyways, the ram that i posted the link for in the last post i made, can i borrow a stick or two or all from there and use it in this build? As i mentioned idk how to really tell what fits in what without spending god knows how long reading up on RAM the numbers for the specs and double checking my manual.

The reason it seems that im lazy or just dont wanna do the work is because i have a back injury. Not sure if i mentioned that but im basically limited time wise by pain with anything i do, so i cant spend an entire day sitting at the computer without having to take a bunch of pain meds so i can lay in bed and get to the point where i can actually not be in too much pain to sleep. I like to spend the least amount of team possible doing every activity because of this sadly. Sorry not trying to pull the pity card or anything, i just dont want ppl misreading the issues i have and believing im ignorant or just plain lazy.

 

[Raiddinn]

The RAM you linked should be fine for testing purposes. Just take out all your RAM and put in one of those sticks and see what happens. If you do that and then run the Memtest86+ again overnight you should be able to see pretty clearly whether or not that graphics corruption returns.

I can't really guarantee it will be compatible, but the biggest source of RAM problems is DOA RAM. In case it isn't clear, I mean RAM that has a flaw right out of the packaging.

Crucial and Kingston are both tied for the absolute lowest failure rates across the board and I would only suggest anyone buy from one of these two makers. Corsair averages 5x higher and many of Corsair's product lines are 13 times higher than what these two average.

Indeed, now that OCZ quit selling RAM, some Corsair lines like XMS are the ones with the highest DOA rates of all the major manufacturers. I saw RMA rates for a major parts retailer and they listed out the top 10 highest failure rate product lines out of everything with a minimum of multiple hundred units and it was like

Corsair
Corsair
Corsair
Corsair
Corsair

I wish I was kidding.

I am not a big Corsair fan myself. They have the trust of a lot of people, but I am not one of them. They make a lot of good products, but from where I sit there is always a better or easier product from some other company.

For cases I like Lian Li, Cooler Master HAF's, or Antec 300.
For RAM I prefer Crucial or Kingston.
For PSUs, XFX has all the benefits and requires no research into individual model quality.
For processor coolers, the Hyper 212 does just as well as their 3x more expensive liquid coolers.

I do have one of the Corsair Voyager USB sticks and it works OK, but I wouldn't single them out for being awesome in that category or anything.

Also, coincedentally, you don't need to install Windows in a big long chain like you said above in order to have a legal OS. As long as you have a Windows 7 Ultimate Upgrade CD and you own a legal full version of anything XP or later you can just install Windows directly off the Windows 7 Ultimate CD without having to install everything prior.

The files are all there on the CD. What makes it legal is just that you own the prior copy and you aren't using it. Microsoft doesn't care if you had the XP files on your hard drive at any point or if you install the new OS directly on a blank drive.

In fact, it is better that you install it directly to a blank drive to make sure anything from the older OSs doesn't worm its way into the newer one.

There is an issue some people run into where they have trouble activating their OS when they do a fresh install with an upgrade CD onto a blank drive, but when that happens the problem is always fixed by just reinstalling the same OS on top of itself and you still keep the older OS files out this way.

I can guarantee it works like this, because the computer I am using now is using a copy of Windows 7 Professional x64 Upgrade installed to a blank drive and I did have that activation problem and it did go away when I reinstalled on top of itself. I can personally vouch for all that.

Also, I think not many people know the Windows license agreements better than me around here, so if I say something is legal to do it probably is. It is me going around these boards all the time hounding people about using legal OSs.

Anyway, just thought I should point those things out.

It would be at best a time waster and at worst a source of problems to install a huge chain of OSs like that.

Do try the other RAM, though, and let me know how that turns out.

 

[themadhatta]

Thanks for all the info, i didnt think i had a windows 7 ultimate cd, just a card, but i found an upgrade cd. I heard about installing over the original install, and didnt know i had the cd at the time, just a card so i couldnt get the cd key to work.

I have a friend that i met online a few weeks ago and i didnt realize he knew as much as he did about computers. We spent all night last night troubleshooting my computer.

Heres what we got. My old ram from my last build works perfectly fine in this build and got rid of the issue where windows update would cause me to wind up and the startup repair utility.

I then tried each video card i have by themselves. Found that my 2nd card is straight ****ed. But even using the working GPU i dont have the blue screen or startup repair utility problem unless i try restarting after a failed driver update. Its hit or miss but eventually my start up hangs and then i have to restart or i just get sent straight to the start up repair utility. Only way to get the computer working after that issue is to recover from my back up.

I tried installing the drivers for my gpu and it gives me the failed to install error. I tried using thee recommended drivers on their page for my GPU, 290.53. Then i found out that those apparently arent the newest drivers. When i try to download the beta drivers im givin ver. 296.10, but under the drivers list 296.10 is the most recent regular WHQL driver.

So i tried doing a clean install of versions 290.53 WHQL, 295.73 WHQL, and 296.10 as a beta driver and WHQL or regular driver, what ever i should label it as. Every one of those drivers failed to install and the only drivers that have worked for me are the original drivers on the discs that came with my GPUs.


This is what fails to install from the list of items on the installer. Nvidia update: not installed, physX system software: a newer or same version is present, nvidia update components: failed.

Im about to try the newer ram in my older build to see if it works or not.

 

[Raiddinn]

So you were kinda unlucky and had both bad RAM and a bad video card?

I can't say it is super surprising.

My focus is on helping people end up with parts that have the absolute highest likelihood of working right out of the box when everything is assembled.

For a lot of people around here, they have no problem suggesting a computer that is 15% likely to have some component fail right out of the box. I would rather get that down to 5%, even if it costs a little bit extra.

Mind you we are talking quality components across the board here, plain bad brand components could push that figure above 50%.

Switch this component for something 2% more likely to work and that component for something 2% more likely to work and it adds up.

Anyway, such is why I suggest Crucial and Kingston RAM, XFX PSUs, and so on.

I don't know how you got the upgrades yourself, but I bought the Windows 7 Professional x64 upgrade through Microsoft's website and they gave me all the files I needed to burn my own upgrade CD.

For Windows 8 or whatever if you decide to switch to a later OS, I would suggest considering doing it that way next time so you can have a full CD around rather than having to upgrade through Windows Update or whatever you did.

Anyway, it sounds like you might be OK if you just keep the old computer's RAM and use the drivers that came on the driver CD with just the good video card.

Let me know if it still gives you problems when you use it in that configuration or if you get a replacement and still have problems.

I will keep checking in on the thread for any updates.

 

[themadhatta]

Thanks, the ram works perfectly fine. My friend was gonna help me out at a later time since we both decided to call it a night.

I ran memtest86 later on with the working GPU and the newer ram and it passed like 2 or 4 times and then some text popped up telling me it passed and to press esc to exit out.

As for the 2nd card im sending it in for a replacement.

But im still having trouble installing drivers. My computer wont crash anymore but i cant install the latest drivers in their entirety.

Ive installed version 296.10 WHQL that i downloaded from nvidia and used the clean install option. The following stuff doesnt install. Nvidia update not installed, physx system software not installed, 3d vision controller driver not installed, hd audio driver not installed, nvidia update components failed, graphics driver installed, 3d vision driver not installed.

I was thinking of uninstalling everything again and using ccleaner to remove the updater file that wont uninstall from the programs feature in the control panel.

On another note, what do you think about coolermaster ram, i think they make ram, i remember seeing on newegg a fan cooler for ram, and i have one for my G.SKILLZ ram but it doesnt fit in my build. The reason i ask is because the ram in my old build got very very hot.

And who makes your favorite monitors?

Wish i had money to spend lol, currently have it set aside for 2 UPS's for my home theatre/ 2 desktop outlet, and one for my other desktop. And i need more for more hard drives

 

[Raiddinn]

RAM coolers are complete wastes of money as far as I am concerned. Heat spreaders too for that matter.

I have never heard of any performance gain from either of those things.

BTW, I am not 100% sure, but I think that Cooler Master only makes the cooler and you have to have RAM separately.

Monitors - I have heard that Viewsonic is really good, and I heard that Dell has the best 24" for the money, something that starts with a U.

In our house we use DELL monitors because we got them with computers a long time ago and used them even after we upgraded to individual component computers later. I really like the sound bar attachments, they are super convenient.

I like UPSs myself, we used to have our 2 computers plugged into an UPS until one of them needed to be moved to a different room which doesn't have an UPS. We haven't had money we felt like spending on a 2nd UPS since then either.

Video Drivers - Do the drivers show any signs of not working?

I mean I get that there are fails all over the place in the updater, but does it appear to impact performance?

Sorry if you answered that and I forgot, but I am pretty tired and juggling a dozen threads atm.

Anyway, if it doesn't appear that performance is affected, you may just want to forget about it.

Many times it happens that Updates numbers, say, 1 through 10 are released over a span of, say, 10 months and the updater can take you straight from 1 to 10. Sometimes they do that right away and this causes all the updates 2 - 9 to fail without any negative effects.

That sort of situation may be the case here.

 

[benjamincakir]

Your HDD is seriously fragmented

 

[themadhatta]

Thanks for the info, as for the drivers i cant tell, i was already planning to post a thread once everything was working to make sure all my stuff was properly working, maybe do a benchmark of some sort. For all i know i could have terrible performance for some reason. I was having insanely low frame rates with my old build and had to mess with some stuff and then realize that i need to set the cards to maximize the 3d performance so i could get the frame rate my cards should have been pumping out.

From what i can tell everything works fine. But i can say that i dont think the nvidia updater was installed, and idk how that will affect my computer. I can say that everything was acting normal as if i did install the drivers properly, the only problem is that i dont have any 3d vision drivers. I have the normal options to activate all the displays or maximize 3d performance or span the display across 3 screens, but theres no tab or section on the left side that allows me to go through the usual setup steps for nvidias 3d vision.

i wanna make my own build thread so i can post up all my specs and what im getting, i love my corsair link cooling kit so i can post my fans specs rpm, the temperature of all the components and what not, but i dont know whats good or whats bad since i have nothing to compare it to, so im gonna need opinions on whether everything looks good or not, but again thats once i get everything working first

dont worry about taking ur time getting back to me, i understand the thread juggling from other forums ive been on, and i can be very patient, and i over talk and over explain everything lol

- Thanks again

@benjamincakir
lol i updated my thread saying that i got everything working and that it was the GPU the only problem i have now is that the driver installer says its failed to install several things, i can play all games fine and do everything normally except use nvidia 3d vision even though i was able to before and now am not.

No offense but you need to keep up with the conversation a bit before you try to answer a question/problem that has already been resolved. I really appreciate the effort tho

 

[Raiddinn]

You shouldn't really need us to tell you how your benchmarks compare. Any time I want to compare somebody's benchmark results to see if they are normal I just look it up in Google anyway. You can cut out the middle man and just do it yourself.

Maybe somebody around here memroizes FPS for every game with every video card using a variety of processors, but I think most of us don;t have that kind of time. We kinda get a feel for it after a while, but having a feel for it really doesn't beat a quick internet search.

As for temperatures, all you really need to know is that you have a good case and you maxxed out the fans, particularly the outbound ones.

The more air you have in and out, the cooler the stuff inside is going to be.

The processor probably shouldn't be much over 60c and the video card not much over 80 or 90c. The lower the better, obviously.

Here is a two part article that says everything you need to know about cooling, if you are really that interested:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cooling-airflow-heatsink,3053.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cooling-air-pressure-heatsink,3058.html

Video Card drivers - I don't know how much this 3d vision stuff means to you, but I guess if it makes a big difference you can try your earlier plan with uninstalling and reinstalling it. I would just leave it alone, though, if you aren't somehow screwed as a result of how things are currently operating.

 

[themadhatta]

Thanks for the info. Whats the most common benchmarking software to compare setups? I remember i was having trouble with the GPU on my old build and had to troubleshoot it to get the fps to match other ppls setups that were similar. I always forget that its not like theres this industry standard for bechmarking and what not.

The cooling im really focused on because i decided not to go with a water cooling setup and i want everything running as cool as possible. I actually have my computer up near the ceiling on a shelf dedicated to this build. Not really for cooling, just to free up foot and desktop space but its also near a window so when its cold out thats a nice bonus.
I also have the corsair link cooling system, but ive never compared temperatures before so idk whats too hot and whats too cold. I just know that with the corsair link software it seems like theres some kinda cap on temperature for the LEDs to go from blue to green to red. And my led monitoring the cpu is almost always red even when my computer is doin nuthin just sitting at the desktop screen.

As for the graphics card idk wtf the problem was, but i backed up my stuff so i could get my windows 7 ultimate 64 bit version installed. Im shocked i installed the 32 bit versions so thats why i was having so much trouble. Guess i got x64 vs x86 mixed up lol.
I backed up everything using windows backup and learned i cant go from win7 home premium 32 bit and recover the backup onto win7 ultimate 64. So i reinstalled my 32 bit home premium using the same install cd that i burned, and it wouldnt recover my back up even to that

Wound up just recovering what i could and started from scratch. Skipped using the step of using the nvidia driver cd and after installing the mobo drivers and software, and doing all the windows updates, i used the latest nvidia drivers from their site and everything went smooth.

Just got my 2nd GPU back from EVGAs repair center, so im gonna be installing that in a bit and then running memtest before i go to sleep and hopefully everything should pass with flying colors

 

[Raiddinn]

Aida 64 seems to be all the rage for benchmarking these days.

 

[themadhatta]

For sure. I got my GPU back and my computer has been a nightmare every since i started using it. No blue screens so far but its been taking me to the startup utility when rebooting, and i had quite a few failed recoveries, took me forever just to get the computer working again with the original working GPU. I tried the GPU i got back from the repair center on its own and it seems to work but i had to get the working card back in and recover from a system image or back up to get everything working again.

I can always try running memtest86 again with the other card in by itself but i dont understand why the second i put the 2nd card back in everything starts acting up again. One of the common problems i come across along with being taken to the startup repair utility is the windows logo hanging when starting up.

Could my mobo be bad? I tried using different sli cords, cuz i noticed i had my orignal one plugged in upside down. Ive read that sli is supposed to only plug in one way, and ive read that it can be plugged in either direction and that it doesnt matter. I have one slanted side and originally it was pointed down and now i have it pointed up but my computer was detecting the multi gpu setup when i was using that sli cord. Is it possible i may have damaged my system by plugging the sli cable in wrong? No where in any of the manuals does it say that they should be plugged in a specific way, and i remember an old build said to match the arrow on the sli cable to the top left corner of the 1st GPU, and none of my sli cords/cables or what have u have any indication as to which way theyre supposed to be plugged in.

Should i try running memtest86 again? Is there a way to test the GPU to make sure that it isnt the problem so then i can try and see if its the mobo thats messed up? Would there be a way to test the mobo? I have the GPUs plugged in to the correct pci e x16 slots that the manual tells me to use.

Should i try running these cards in sli on my old build or try using my 2 460s in sli on this build?

 

[Raiddinn]

The only way to test if the problem is with a motherboard is to just try a different motherboard.

Feel free to try the 2 new cards in the old board and the 2 old cards in the new board. That should make it pretty clear where the graphics fault lies, whether on the video card side or the motherboard side.

Let me know how the tests turn out.

To answer your questions, it is conceivable that plugging the cord in upside down could have damaged things, however, I would think the likelihood of having the cord in upside down causing damage to the cards would be extremely low.

If it was the case that the cards would be physically damaged by a cable turned around the wrong way, then the video card makers would key the cables so they could only be plugged in one way and it would be physically impossible to screw it up.

BTW, do you have the potential to reinstall Windows if you need to?

 

[themadhatta]

--Thanks, lemme know what u think about the mobo in the link at the bottom its my old mobo and it looks like im probably gonna go the mobo testing route if the GPUs dont give me problems which i doubt they will. Ive also tried to edit this wall of text to be as eye friendly as i can.


This build has been such a nightmare yet you cant put a price on education and ive had to learn so much its almost made me give up on computers, and i would have if i didnt know computers were gonna become one of those most vital skills to have in the near or long term future. Everyone including myself has always brought up the fact that i literally have the worst luck out of anyone in history with computers. And i mean luck, not ignorant decisions that lead to problems, even though that may have been the case a couple times lol.

-Details on my history with this issue since the last post...
I have tons of upgrade CDs with no way to use any of them. I have 3 different images of windows 7. 2 home premiums and 1 Ultimate. Ive tried a win7 home premium 32 bit install, tried it again, and again, sent in my 2nd GPU for repairs, then tried win7 ultimate 64 bit, i got my GPU back from the repair center, tried it and it worked identically to the other GPU so they should both be on the same page, even though im suspicious of it.
While my 2nd GPU was at the repair center i was using my win7 ultimate 64 bit install and having problems with the drivers for the GPU until i reinstalled and skipped the step of installing the GPU drivers from the CD, did the mobo drivers from CD, did all the updates possible from windows update feature, then used the latest drivers from nvidias site and no longer had any problems with the GPU driver installs failing. The second i got the GPU back and popped it in the pciex16 slot recommended in the manual for a 2nd GPU, the problem started all over again. Win7 logo hangs and on restart im sent to startup repair utility. I used my backup and did a system image recovery with the one GPU that never acted out, since thats how i seem to be able to temporarily mend the problem.
The weird thing is that i had no problems after getting the nvidia drivers to finally work when i did my fresh install of win7 ultimate. The second i get back the 2nd GPU and try it out everything goes back to hell, and even without the 2nd GPU and using the system image recovery and restore methods im still running into the problem every so often. Looks like the only way to mend the problem without any other troubleshooting, is to not use the 2nd GPU and do another fresh install of win7 ultimate 64 bit.
I lost the disc i burned for the working install of the last mentioned version of windows ^^^ and so i burned another copy. This time when i try booting off the disc the logo hangs and i cant get the damn thing to install. I just wanted to try a fresh install to use the 460s with.

So for now ive given up until tomorrow and i guess ill pick up by trying the 590s in the old build if it fits in the case. Otherwise ill have to clear a ton of space in my room to do a case swap from another build. I know i can use my crazy ram in the old builds mobo but i wont be able to use my current CPU, and im worried since the crazy ram gets hot super fast just running win7 and nothing else.


--Is there a way to test my i73960x since only the current mobo can use the LGA 2011 socket?


--Anyways can this mobo handle my 2 590s, and my samsung 830 without a need for worry? I know the mobo will be bottle necking the performance of the 590s, but im not sure about the 830, or the G.SKILLZ ram aka crazy ram.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00407ZUUY/ref=wms_ohs_product


---Also thank you and everyone thats been tolerating my walls of text and nightmare threads, from the bottom of my heart. IDK if u guys have any idea how much i appreciate your patience and help.


-PS: Does anyone know where i can find a legit copy of windows to use as an image from now on, i have every upgrade to get me from windows xp to windows 7 ultimate but no xp CD or key. I tried contacting microsofts online chat support telling them my problem and asking for a download link or copy of win7 ultimate, and the idiot told me i need the cd, and its not like in the question which i write up, and have to rewrite when im connected to an agent, that i mentioned i dont have the damn cd but have all the keys, and im not talking about those preset only works with this computer keys, im talking legit keys.


-Im also looking for a modding community, if this wasnt already one of the biggest walls of text ive written online id tell you what happened in detail. But im one of the most loyal sony fans and customers you will ever meet, and they just crossed the line.

I rambled so heres the details lol...
They dont care about me, i wasted 500 dollars trying to get my PS3 repaired and safe from any future problems. Their customer service rep told me to keep my HDD and send in my PS3 with another HDD if i wanted to keep all my data safe. Turns out taking an HDD out of a PS3, "... for more than a few seconds will cause it so that the hard drive will no longer work in a PS3 without being formatted." I have every save ive ever had all the way back from the release of the first play station on that HDD. Yes you heard me correct. And i can go on about this issue for days, but the point is they screwed me, and i could have repaired the PS3 myself and kept everything working better than normal. Now i have 2 PS3s that imo are paper weights... sony wont ever see a dime from me again... what a way to treat their loyal customers huh.

 

[Raiddinn]

That PS3 thing sucks. Reality should definitely not be such that you can't remove a hard drive without erasing all your data. I haven't had a console since Nintendo 64, though, so I guess I get to avoid frustration like this.

Windows CDs - You can do a brand new install onto a blank drive using an upgrade CD. Just put it in the CD drive. It is definitely like this for Windows 7. I did it a few months ago on one of my home PCs.

My wife was still on XP and she had an 80 GB hard drive in her computer as her boot drive. We had a second 80 GB hard drive laying around with no data on it. She does work on her computer from home so if this Windows 7 stuff didn't work she needed to be able to recover the old setup instantly if there was any problems with using Windows 7 or if her programs didn't work on it.

I just took out her then current hard drive and set it aside, then I connected the blank one and inserted the Windows 7 Professional x64 Upgrade CD and the install went smoothly.

All the necessary files for new installs are on upgrade CDs (definitely for Windows 7, I think for prior versions too).

There are only two things you have to concern yourself with:
1) Proving that you are legally able to use an upgrade CD if someone asks you, IE showing you own a legal copy of XP or Vista. If you have CD keys for legal copies of those OSs, then you should be fine here.

2) Sometimes it is hard to activate after an install to a blank drive. If this happens, you can just install with the upgrade CD on top of itself and it will always activate the second time (not installed to a blank drive anymore, there is a prior copy of Windows 7).

In other news - I am starting to wonder if it really is your motherboard that has failed, in particular the second PCIE port.

My eyes kinda glossed over during that wall of text at times, but I think I got that things start messing up really bad if you have a second card inserted and they don't if you don't insert a second card.

If I understood that right, that leads me to think there is some problem with the port itself. Especially so if the 2nd video card works just fine in the first slot if you take the first one out and just set it off to the side.

In other news - The second CD you DLd sounds like you either got a bad DL or a bad burn. I would just delete those files and re-download them (3rd time?) and then burn the files to CD again. If you didn't set the write speed to a manual 8x while you burned the most recent (second?) time, then do it this time.

Yet other news - It will be hard to test the processor if you only have one motherboard it will work in. Don't try putting it into a different motherboard socket type. If you know someone with the same socket you can ask them to use your processor in their motherboard (or vice versa), but that is about it.

Processors are one of the biggest PITA things to test, because unlike RAM which can often be borrowed from another system, they are much less capable of being borrowed from other systems.

 

[themadhatta]

The upgrade cd i have is a 32 bit copy, i lost the 64 bit copy thats why i hit up microsoft asking for a download or copy of the cd since i have 2 cd keys that should work with that, from what i can remember. Do you think microsoft would send me another copy if i called up their customer support?

Heres what ive been up to...
I took the 460s out of my old build. Ran a back up of my current build and I re installed windows using the CD i used for the last install. I then turned the computer off and installed both gtx460s in the same slots, and am using a brand new sli cord dealy that i bought before i read the last post you made. Installed win7 on an empty caviar black drive of mine so im running a dual boot setup now, installed mobo drivers, no gpus drivers, then did all the updates, and then did the latest gpu drirvers from their site for the 460s.

No problems so far. Finished updating everything today, then installed all my usual software that i run on my daily computer just to make sure everything is pretty much identical to before. Im currently waiting for a bunch of games to finish downloading, installing, then updating. Once thats all done ill try restarting several times, and playing some games. So far if u had to ask me if i thought id run into that problem again id say i bet not. So all i can figure is it was the 1st GPU?

If nothing starts acting up the final thing i can test is activating surround mode and 3d with nvidia vision cuz i caused the problem to start when i was messing with those settings when i got my 2nd 590 back from evga.

EDIT: So i noticed that when using the 590s it didnt seem to care what direction the SLI was facing. Now that im using the 460s i couldnt maximize my 3d settings in the nvidia control panel because i needed to connect an sli ready adapter i believe it was called. I flipped the SLI adapter around and now everythings working again.

In the meantime...
Im gonna be transfering my older build into my oldest computers case because its a better case and ive been meaning to swap the components for some time. Either way i have to do this to test each 590 in the old build since the case its in right now is far too cramped to even think about installing 1 of these cards.

The only problem is i dont think i will be able to run both cards using that builds PSU. Im using an old Tuniq PSU that came with my Sword M case. The PSU says its a Tuniq Ripper 1000W Power Supply. I was told on these forums that the PSU could and couldnt handle 2 590s so i solved the issue buy buying an AX1200.

Here we go found the old post, its a bit sloppy on the wording so lemme phrase this better.

"I was told i need something like 60 or 70 amp +12v rails for each 590. I have a 1k watt PSU but none of the +12v rails reach that, i have 2 20A rails and 2 30A rails."

All 4 of those rails share 900W from the PSU, so idk if that will be enough to power.

Heres the older build that i wanna test the 590s on...
Mobo: Sabertooth X58 (socket 1366)

CPU: Intel Core i7-950 3.06 GHz 8 MB Cache

RAM: Im not good with ram specs, so heres a link... i have 6 sticks totaling 12 gigs http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LZ1FPG/ref=oh_o03_s00_i01_details

HDDs: 2 128 GB Crucial RealSSD C300s (intel raid 0) along with 3 spare 1-2TB WD HDDs

Cooling: Corsair H60 CPU hydro cooler and 5 fans averaging at very strong, but the power to them is being restricted by the fan controller im using. 2 of the fans pump 250-350 cfm lol

PSU: Tuniq Ripper Model: PSU-RIP1000-BK

Notes: Im not using a dvd drive on here atm, just been using my flash drive for installing windows, ive never had a problem with this build.

On a side note...
Ive been having 2 weird issues. 1st on both my newest and oldest builds, while using a 2nd monitor i have some issue with 2 drop down menus. The first drop down menu i noticed was my firefox bookmarks folders on my bookmarks bar, figured it was a firefox issue until i noticed that right clicking the background on the 2nd screen on my older build causes the same problem. Basically unless the mouse is moving your not able to see 99% of the drop down menu.

The other problem is with an external wifi usb drive ive been recommended by a person who works on computers for a living. Ive been heariing wifi cards suck and to go with wifi usb adapters, but this one has been giving me trouble since i installed windows to test the 460s in the latest build. Whats your opinion on this?

 

[Raiddinn]

You could probably get another copy if you paid money for it. They might give you a CD without a key for like $10 or something. You may be able to get a CD without a CD key on ebay or craigslist or something too.

You definitely don't need 70 amps per rail for 590s. If someone said that they don't know what they were talking about. You probably need 70 amps in total for both 590s, but definitely not 70 per. That would require a PSU with almost 2000 watts.

If you arrange the cables so that 1 of each 20a and 30a (total 50a connected to each card) are plugged into the power connectors on the 590s, it should work. That would give each card about 600w.

It might not be immediately clear how to do that, but once you figure it out it should be fine. All you can really do is use trial and error.

I don't know why anyone would say wireless cards internal to a PC are any worse than wireless cards otherwise. The only advantage I can think of to having an external wireless adapter would be that you could move it around to get better reception with it.

I use an internal wireless card just fine.

What is the problem that the external wireless adapter is having?

Not sure on the multiple monitors thing, I have very little experience with multiple monitor setups.