The Problem With Xbox Live:

Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

I joined Xbox Live shortly after my first cable modem was installed and
ready (3/1/05). I used the 2 month freebie coupon that came with Halo 2
and since then I've bought a head-set as well.

Here's the problem as I see it...

The online component of all the games is essentially the same.

The idea of a death match was cool back when Doom did it. It was a
unique experience, but it didn't take long for it to get boring.
There's no story to it, there's no sophistication... throw a bunch of
guys in a room and let them shoot each other. Yes, yes, there are
variations, capture the flag, oddball, blah blah blah, but compared to
the variety of the single player games the multiplayer is still all the
same.

It doesn't seem to matter how interesting or original the actual game
is, the online component is the same... Throw a bunch of guys together
in a room and let them shoot each other. I was greatly disappointed
when even something original like Phantom Dust followed the same
pattern.

I think the reason for this is that it's easier to do than to set up a
multi-player experience as interesting and story driven as the single
playher. Halo and Halo 2 did amazing things with the co-operative play,
so did Phantasy Star Online on the Dreamcast (before they started
charging an extra fee for it.)

Why don't game companies realize that playing co-operatively is far
more interesting than deathmatch? It's not to say there can't be
competition... Gauntlet figured out that players could still be on the
same side and compete for other things, power-ups, number of kills,
etc. The 2nd and 3rd Lord of the Rings movies turned it into a gag with
the Elf and Dwarf in an orc killing contest.

So I don't know what the solution is. Perhaps it's not just a matter of
laziness on the part of the developers, perhaps it's a lack of maturity
in the online industry. They have, after all, decades of experience
developing a single player component but are still relatively new to
developing multi-player games.

- Jordan
25 answers Last reply
More about problem xbox live
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Jordan" <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    >
    > Why don't game companies realize that playing co-operatively is far
    > more interesting than deathmatch? It's not to say there can't be
    > competition... Gauntlet figured out that players could still be on the
    > same side and compete for other things, power-ups, number of kills,
    > etc. The 2nd and 3rd Lord of the Rings movies turned it into a gag with
    > the Elf and Dwarf in an orc killing contest.

    I agree I like co op better too, I used to play co op online on Doom and
    Duke Nuke 'Em all the time.

    --
    All Purpose Cultural Randomness
    http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Ethan Hammond" <eshammond@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    news:bHu%d.158078$Th1.114884@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    > "Jordan" <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    >>
    >> Why don't game companies realize that playing co-operatively is far
    >> more interesting than deathmatch? It's not to say there can't be
    >> competition... Gauntlet figured out that players could still be on the
    >> same side and compete for other things, power-ups, number of kills,
    >> etc. The 2nd and 3rd Lord of the Rings movies turned it into a gag with
    >> the Elf and Dwarf in an orc killing contest.
    >
    > I agree I like co op better too, I used to play co op online on Doom and
    > Duke Nuke 'Em all the time.

    I was disappointed that H2 wasn't Live Co-op enabled. My best friend only
    rarely plays because he's working so much. Matchmaking would eat him alive,
    so he won't even try it.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Jordan" <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:1111375735.690815.238560@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    >I joined Xbox Live shortly after my first cable modem was installed and
    > ready (3/1/05). I used the 2 month freebie coupon that came with Halo 2
    > and since then I've bought a head-set as well.
    >
    > Here's the problem as I see it...
    >
    > The online component of all the games is essentially the same.
    >
    > The idea of a death match was cool back when Doom did it. It was a
    > unique experience, but it didn't take long for it to get boring.
    > There's no story to it, there's no sophistication... throw a bunch of
    > guys in a room and let them shoot each other. Yes, yes, there are
    > variations, capture the flag, oddball, blah blah blah, but compared to
    > the variety of the single player games the multiplayer is still all the
    > same.
    >

    You'll want to check out the Splinter Cell games - they did some very nice
    multiplayer stuff with version 2, and version 3 out soon will be co-op
    online, and looks very good.
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    In article <1111375735.690815.238560@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
    lundj@earthlink.net says...
    >
    >I joined Xbox Live shortly after my first cable modem was installed and
    >ready (3/1/05). I used the 2 month freebie coupon that came with Halo 2
    >and since then I've bought a head-set as well.
    >
    >Here's the problem as I see it...
    >
    >The online component of all the games is essentially the same.
    >
    >The idea of a death match was cool back when Doom did it. It was a
    >unique experience, but it didn't take long for it to get boring.
    >There's no story to it, there's no sophistication... throw a bunch of
    >guys in a room and let them shoot each other. Yes, yes, there are
    >variations, capture the flag, oddball, blah blah blah, but compared to
    >the variety of the single player games the multiplayer is still all the
    >same.
    >
    >It doesn't seem to matter how interesting or original the actual game
    >is, the online component is the same... Throw a bunch of guys together
    >in a room and let them shoot each other. I was greatly disappointed
    >when even something original like Phantom Dust followed the same
    >pattern.
    >
    >I think the reason for this is that it's easier to do than to set up a
    >multi-player experience as interesting and story driven as the single
    >playher. Halo and Halo 2 did amazing things with the co-operative play,
    >so did Phantasy Star Online on the Dreamcast (before they started
    >charging an extra fee for it.)
    >
    >Why don't game companies realize that playing co-operatively is far
    >more interesting than deathmatch? It's not to say there can't be
    >competition... Gauntlet figured out that players could still be on the
    >same side and compete for other things, power-ups, number of kills,
    >etc. The 2nd and 3rd Lord of the Rings movies turned it into a gag with
    >the Elf and Dwarf in an orc killing contest.
    >
    >So I don't know what the solution is. Perhaps it's not just a matter of
    >laziness on the part of the developers, perhaps it's a lack of maturity
    >in the online industry. They have, after all, decades of experience
    >developing a single player component but are still relatively new to
    >developing multi-player games.
    >
    >- Jordan
    >

    I agree. It would be cool to take on a beach episode in Medal Of Honor against
    a bunch of computer controlled Nazi players. Get a room and then wait for
    people to join just like in a racing game. If you get three people out of six
    who want to try without waiting for others then go for it but you will have
    trouble. Try it with six and you will have a much better chance. Now the
    missions where you have an objective are great but co-op would be alot of fun
    too.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    The problem with Xbox Live is the huge numbers of 12 year old boys who
    populate it. For a system that was aimed at adult gamers, the online
    component is pee wee city.
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    >>NFL 2K5, Crimson Skies, Topspin, Fight Night2, Project Gotham
    Racing2<<

    Sports game, shooter, sports game, sports game, sports game.

    -Eric
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Gooserider" <noway@mousepotato.com> wrote in message
    news:MRy%d.197587$qB6.141809@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
    > The problem with Xbox Live is the huge numbers of 12 year old boys who
    > populate it. For a system that was aimed at adult gamers, the online
    > component is pee wee city.
    >

    I remember it didn't used to be that way. When I first went online two
    years ago, I owned both consoles. I played games online like SOCOM with
    PS2 and football on Xbox.. I also played numerous racing games. There
    was no doubt then that the Playstation was the kiddie console and the
    median age of players in my Xbox games was over 30.

    Now it's like the Xbox is a victim of it's own popularity and games like
    Madden and Halo 2 have brought a tidal wave of pig-faced little shitbags
    onto the network, to the detriment of all. It's a shame that an age
    filter is impossible for online gaming. What a difference it would make.

    It would be nice, though, if behavior and play-style could be rated -
    Xbox-wide - by fellow gamers the way it's done in ESPN Football 2K5. You
    can see from the lobby of the game whether someone has been rated "All
    Sim" or "No Sim" by their opponents, so they can be avoided as
    necessary.

    Whenever someone enters a lobby, you should be able to click on their
    profile to see stats specific to them and that particular game.
    Likewise, you should be able to filter cheesers out of your game by
    setting rules in your lobby. If there is a stat for causing crashes, you
    could disallow anyone who does not meet certain statistical criteria
    from entering your match in a racing game.

    I also think in the future that game designers should devote more
    resources to analyzing gaming behavior for online competition. A
    first-person shooter game could log stats for your gamertag for every
    kind of statistic or behavior. Do you camp at spawn-points? How many
    times have you killed friendlies in co-op? All of this could be charted
    and recorded and such information would be public record in someone's
    Gamertag - and thus used against them when hosts are setting up their
    games.
    --
    JE

    "Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, the
    poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake. Yeah,
    Jack Burton just looks that big old storm right in the eye and says,
    Gimme your best shot. I can take it."

    - Kurt Russell, Big Trouble in Little China
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Jordan" <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:1111375735.690815.238560@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

    <snip!>

    > Why don't game companies realize that playing co-operatively is
    > far
    > more interesting than deathmatch? It's not to say there can't be
    > competition... Gauntlet figured out that players could still be on
    > the
    > same side and compete for other things, power-ups, number of
    > kills,
    > etc. The 2nd and 3rd Lord of the Rings movies turned it into a gag
    > with
    > the Elf and Dwarf in an orc killing contest.
    >
    > So I don't know what the solution is. Perhaps it's not just a
    > matter of
    > laziness on the part of the developers, perhaps it's a lack of
    > maturity
    > in the online industry. They have, after all, decades of
    > experience
    > developing a single player component but are still relatively new
    > to
    > developing multi-player games.

    I feel your pain.

    Remember how M$ dropped the ball with True Fantasy Online?

    Now imagine how tres kewl it would be playing World Of Warcraft on
    Xbox Live. Don't laugh; M$ with their deep pockets *could* make it
    happen if they really wanted to. If only they'd drop those damn
    cookie cutters.

    --
    ---Stash

    "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence
    of the American people." H.L. Mencken

    SPAM FILTER:
    You'd have to be out of YourMind to send me email.
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Jordan" <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:1111375735.690815.238560@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
    > I joined Xbox Live shortly after my first cable modem was installed and
    > ready (3/1/05). I used the 2 month freebie coupon that came with Halo 2
    > and since then I've bought a head-set as well.
    >
    > Here's the problem as I see it...
    >
    > The online component of all the games is essentially the same.
    >
    > The idea of a death match was cool back when Doom did it...

    There are plenty of non-FPS Live-enabled games out there. As far as FPS goes,
    you cannot beat RTCW ET on PC for teamplay though.
    grol
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Jordan"wrote in message

    > Why don't game companies realize that playing co-operatively is far
    > more interesting than deathmatch? It's not to say there can't be
    > competition... Gauntlet figured out that players could still be on the
    > same side and compete for other things, power-ups, number of kills,
    > etc. The 2nd and 3rd Lord of the Rings movies turned it into a gag with
    > the Elf and Dwarf in an orc killing contest.

    I'm with you on many of your points. I'd love to see more co-op play, but
    unfortunetly that doesn't seem to be as popular as death matches and
    capturing the flag. "Full Spectrum Warrior", which has become my favorite
    XBox game, never has anyone online playing. I've setup a game and waited
    45+ minutes for someone to show up, to no avail. Nobody wants to do co-op.
    Unfortunate.

    Cheers,
    -Eric
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    >It would be nice, though, if behavior and play-style could be rated -
    >Xbox-wide - by fellow gamers the way it's done in ESPN Football 2K5. "
    >
    >Whenever someone enters a lobby, you should be able to click on their
    >profile to see stats specific to them and that particular game.
    >Likewise, you should be able to filter cheesers out of your game by
    >setting rules in your lobby.

    Hostile, It looks like Microsoft is addressing some of the issues that
    you have here for the Xenon Xbox Live update. Click here
    http://tinyurl.com/5crah to view a video of how the new version of
    Xbox Live will work. If you get a chance, check out J. Allard's
    Keynote Speech from the GDC. Pretty interesting stuff.

    SupaScape!
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    On 20 Mar 2005 19:28:55 -0800, "Jordan" <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote:


    >
    >Here's the problem as I see it...
    >
    >The online component of all the games is essentially the same.
    >
    >The idea of a death match was cool back when Doom did it. It was a
    >unique experience, but it didn't take long for it to get boring.
    >There's no story to it, there's no sophistication... throw a bunch of

    >- Jordan

    NFL 2K5, Crimson Skies, Topspin, Fight Night2, Project Gotham Racing2.
    There are more then just twitchfest style games
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Thoth" <thoth@notlisted.net> wrote in message
    news:HPC%d.9490$uk7.6882@fed1read01...
    > "Ethan Hammond" <eshammond@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
    > message
    > news:bHu%d.158078$Th1.114884@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    >> "Jordan" <lundj@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    >>>
    >>> Why don't game companies realize that playing
    >>> co-operatively is far
    >>> more interesting than deathmatch? It's not to say there
    >>> can't be
    >>> competition... Gauntlet figured out that players could
    >>> still be on the
    >>> same side and compete for other things, power-ups,
    >>> number of kills,
    >>> etc. The 2nd and 3rd Lord of the Rings movies turned it
    >>> into a gag with
    >>> the Elf and Dwarf in an orc killing contest.
    >>
    >> I agree I like co op better too, I used to play co op
    >> online on Doom and
    >> Duke Nuke 'Em all the time.
    >
    > I was disappointed that H2 wasn't Live Co-op enabled. My
    > best friend only rarely plays because he's working so
    > much. Matchmaking would eat him alive, so he won't even
    > try it.
    >

    I think I have read that SC Chaos Theory is supposed to be
    cooperative in Live. Anyone else remember seeing any such
    thing? Let's hope so; it looks like it could be a very good
    game.
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Hostile 17" <hostile17@verizon.bogus.net> wrote in message
    news:0jA%d.11454$GI6.3090@trnddc05...
    > "Gooserider" <noway@mousepotato.com> wrote in message
    > news:MRy%d.197587$qB6.141809@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
    >> The problem with Xbox Live is the huge numbers of 12 year
    >> old boys who
    >> populate it. For a system that was aimed at adult gamers,
    >> the online
    >> component is pee wee city.
    >>
    >
    > I remember it didn't used to be that way. When I first
    > went online two
    > years ago, I owned both consoles. I played games online
    > like SOCOM with
    > PS2 and football on Xbox.. I also played numerous racing
    > games. There
    > was no doubt then that the Playstation was the kiddie
    > console and the
    > median age of players in my Xbox games was over 30.
    >
    > Now it's like the Xbox is a victim of it's own popularity
    > and games like
    > Madden and Halo 2 have brought a tidal wave of pig-faced
    > little shitbags
    > onto the network, to the detriment of all. It's a shame
    > that an age
    > filter is impossible for online gaming. What a difference
    > it would make.
    >
    > It would be nice, though, if behavior and play-style could
    > be rated -
    > Xbox-wide - by fellow gamers the way it's done in ESPN
    > Football 2K5. You
    > can see from the lobby of the game whether someone has
    > been rated "All
    > Sim" or "No Sim" by their opponents, so they can be
    > avoided as
    > necessary.
    >
    > Whenever someone enters a lobby, you should be able to
    > click on their
    > profile to see stats specific to them and that particular
    > game.
    > Likewise, you should be able to filter cheesers out of
    > your game by
    > setting rules in your lobby. If there is a stat for
    > causing crashes, you
    > could disallow anyone who does not meet certain
    > statistical criteria
    > from entering your match in a racing game.
    >
    > I also think in the future that game designers should
    > devote more
    > resources to analyzing gaming behavior for online
    > competition. A
    > first-person shooter game could log stats for your
    > gamertag for every
    > kind of statistic or behavior. Do you camp at
    > spawn-points? How many
    > times have you killed friendlies in co-op? All of this
    > could be charted
    > and recorded and such information would be public record
    > in someone's
    > Gamertag - and thus used against them when hosts are
    > setting up their
    > games.
    > --
    > JE
    >

    I think the ranking system that Halo has is pretty decent
    for grouping players with similar skills. I don't think I'd
    like a system where you could pick and choose your teammates
    based on their win/loss record. We're not all hardcore
    gamers. Some of us play just for the love of playing. I do
    agree that it would be nice if you could however weed out
    the filthy little beasts who insist upon "faggot" this and
    "nigger" that for those of us mature enough to be irritated
    and offended by such bullshit.


    > "Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth
    > quakes, the
    > poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven
    > shake. Yeah,
    > Jack Burton just looks that big old storm right in the eye
    > and says,
    > Gimme your best shot. I can take it."
    >
    > - Kurt Russell, Big Trouble in Little China
    >
    >
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Robin" <robinandtami@nospam.com> wrote in message
    news:35I%d.8777$fn3.2394@attbi_s01...

    > I think the ranking system that Halo has is pretty decent for grouping
    > players with similar skills. I don't think I'd like a system where you
    > could pick and choose your teammates based on their win/loss record.
    > We're not all hardcore gamers. Some of us play just for the love of
    > playing. I do agree that it would be nice if you could however weed out
    > the filthy little beasts who insist upon "faggot" this and "nigger" that
    > for those of us mature enough to be irritated and offended by such
    > bullshit.
    >
    >
    hard to hear offensive comments with your headset off
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:d1nmqe$4v6$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
    >
    > "Robin" <robinandtami@nospam.com> wrote in message
    > news:35I%d.8777$fn3.2394@attbi_s01...
    >
    >> I think the ranking system that Halo has is pretty decent for grouping
    >> players with similar skills. I don't think I'd like a system where you
    >> could pick and choose your teammates based on their win/loss record.
    >> We're not all hardcore gamers. Some of us play just for the love of
    >> playing. I do agree that it would be nice if you could however weed out
    >> the filthy little beasts who insist upon "faggot" this and "nigger" that
    >> for those of us mature enough to be irritated and offended by such
    >> bullshit.
    >>
    >>
    > hard to hear offensive comments with your headset off
    >

    Hard to justify paying $50 to not hear or communicate with anyone.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Khee Mao" <big_bad_buddha_daddy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:d1nmqe$4v6$1@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
    >
    > "Robin" <robinandtami@nospam.com> wrote in message
    > news:35I%d.8777$fn3.2394@attbi_s01...
    >
    >> I think the ranking system that Halo has is pretty decent
    >> for grouping players with similar skills. I don't think
    >> I'd like a system where you could pick and choose your
    >> teammates based on their win/loss record. We're not all
    >> hardcore gamers. Some of us play just for the love of
    >> playing. I do agree that it would be nice if you could
    >> however weed out the filthy little beasts who insist upon
    >> "faggot" this and "nigger" that for those of us mature
    >> enough to be irritated and offended by such bullshit.
    >>
    >>
    > hard to hear offensive comments with your headset off
    >

    It's also hard to coordinate strategy with your teammates.
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    On 21 Mar 2005 12:46:18 -0800, elrous0@pop.uky.edu wrote:

    >>>NFL 2K5, Crimson Skies, Topspin, Fight Night2, Project Gotham
    >Racing2<<
    >
    >Sports game, shooter, sports game, sports game, sports game.
    >
    >-Eric

    did i miss that in the original post?? did see that they didnt want
    those ttypes..
    Splinter Cell is a cool game..stealth and not just trigger fest..
    There are others...Beyond Good and Evil? A bit older tho..

    Spiff
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Matt" <matt93@nospam.net> wrote in message
    news:u9V%d.1243$pa.1036@attbi_s02...
    >
    > <snip> I don't have time to practice at Halo 2, and it's no fun getting
    > killed every 2 seconds by some merciless bastard who is able to play 6
    > hours every day.

    I've played so much I started a new gamertag to reflect my new occupation:
    JoblessDave
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    > I think I have read that SC Chaos Theory is supposed to be
    > cooperative in Live. Anyone else remember seeing any such thing? Let's
    > hope so; it looks like it could be a very good game.
    >

    does noone read my posts?
  21. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "ShakeDoctor" <invalid@email.address> wrote in message
    news:vTR%d.3129$Ab.2798@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
    >
    >> I think I have read that SC Chaos Theory is supposed to be
    >> cooperative in Live. Anyone else remember seeing any such thing? Let's
    >> hope so; it looks like it could be a very good game.
    >>
    >
    > does noone read my posts?

    huh?
  22. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "SupaScape!" <scape@noway.com> wrote in message
    news:briu31tm70a4nuv1a1b6k2idqdar8gl1uo@4ax.com...
    > >It would be nice, though, if behavior and play-style could be rated -
    > >Xbox-wide - by fellow gamers the way it's done in ESPN Football 2K5.
    "
    > >
    > >Whenever someone enters a lobby, you should be able to click on their
    > >profile to see stats specific to them and that particular game.
    > >Likewise, you should be able to filter cheesers out of your game by
    > >setting rules in your lobby.
    >
    > Hostile, It looks like Microsoft is addressing some of the issues that
    > you have here for the Xenon Xbox Live update. Click here
    > http://tinyurl.com/5crah to view a video of how the new version of
    > Xbox Live will work. If you get a chance, check out J. Allard's
    > Keynote Speech from the GDC. Pretty interesting stuff.
    >
    > SupaScape!

    That looks MUCH better. Just the ability to rank play style alone
    through communal voting ought be enough to segregate the online gaming
    community. It will separate the rotten, cheesing, (mostly) underage
    retards from the legitimate gamers. I can't wait for that day and wish
    they would add this to XBL now, before FORZA comes out.
  23. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "ShakeDoctor" <invalid@email.address> wrote in message
    news:vTR%d.3129$Ab.2798@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
    >
    >> I think I have read that SC Chaos Theory is supposed to
    >> be
    >> cooperative in Live. Anyone else remember seeing any
    >> such thing? Let's hope so; it looks like it could be a
    >> very good game.
    >>
    >
    > does noone read my posts?
    >

    LOL, I read it right after I posted.
  24. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    Some of those 12 year olds can play pretty damn good. And some of the ones
    I've come across have been very respectful.

    "Gooserider" <noway@mousepotato.com> wrote in message
    news:MRy%d.197587$qB6.141809@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
    > The problem with Xbox Live is the huge numbers of 12 year old boys who
    > populate it. For a system that was aimed at adult gamers, the online
    > component is pee wee city.
    >
    >
  25. Archived from groups: alt.games.video.xbox (More info?)

    "Robert P Holley" <holleyrp@delanet.com> wrote in message
    news:1111600294.373996.192720@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

    > Speaking of PGR2, a friend of mine at work picked up that game recently
    > so we plan to do some online driving over the next few weeks. If
    > you're still interested in the game, join us if you want.
    >
    > Of course when Doom 3 comes out we'll have to do some co-op together.

    I would love to but I'm traveling for the next three weeks. What a great
    job I have where I get to go to Las Vegas over spring break and Easter
    weekend.
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